Fit the putter to player or player to putter?

[AntLockyer]

I do a lot of reps with this

I've also got a few different putters.

 

What I've found is that if I just swing I will miss left more often than not. I can feel the toe swinging round and that started me thinking about putters that closed less.

 

I've used a Taylormade Spider, Seemore FGP, bigger grips etc 

 

However I've found if I just swing with a slightly different feel (a bit more under, releasing the head up and past the hands) I can square the plumber's neck putters all the time 

 

Short of getting on Puttlab or similar. What's the approach here? Pick whatever I aim best with and swing it so it squares up?

[North Butte]

1 hour ago, AntLockyer said:

However I've found if I just swing with a slightly different feel (a bit more under, releasing the head up and past the hands) I can square the plumber's neck putters all the time 

All I can say is, you do not want to be on the course during a round trying to "release the head up and past the hands". Or doing any other mechanical compensation. You've absolutely got to find a way to putt where you "just swing" and the ball rolls on line.

 

If trying to force a "release" is the only way you can get the ball to start on line you need a different putter, a different setup and aim or both.

 

If it were me, I'd spend some time neutralizing my setup (things like get your eyes directly over the ball, ball in the middle of your stance, feet/hips/shoulders/eyes all parallel, no forward press) and then from that neutral setup try several types of putters to see which one comes closest to rolling the ball on line. Then maybe fine tune your setup a little bit if needed from there.

 

But no way I'd just pick a putter that requires a conscious manipulation of the stroke and try to force that work on the course when I'm keeping score. Conscious manipulation will start a cascade of compensations to deal with your compensations to deal with your compensations, if you know what I mean.

[AntLockyer]

48 minutes ago, North Butte said:

All I can say is, you do not want to be on the course during a round trying to "release the head up and past the hands". Or doing any other mechanical compensation. You've absolutely got to find a way to putt where you "just swing" and the ball rolls on line.

 

If trying to force a "release" is the only way you can get the ball to start on line you need a different putter, a different setup and aim or both.

 

If it were me, I'd spend some time neutralizing my setup (things like get your eyes directly over the ball, ball in the middle of your stance, feet/hips/shoulders/eyes all parallel, no forward press) and then from that neutral setup try several types of putters to see which one comes closest to rolling the ball on line. Then maybe fine tune your setup a little bit if needed from there.

 

But no way I'd just pick a putter that requires a conscious manipulation of the stroke and try to force that work on the course when I'm keeping score. Conscious manipulation will start a cascade of compensations to deal with your compensations to deal with your compensations, if you know what I mean.

Interesting thanks.

 

It seems to me there should always be some conscious action we take in an activity if we want it to repeat. My setup is as described and where I've got to is as a result of trying out different ones to see what works best. Nearly every putter misses left with 0 thought. The difference in swings is super subtle and I'm sure if I just used 1 putter for a month it wouldn't even register as a thought.

 

[AntLockyer]

I should say, as it sounds like I'm arguing. I've done exactly what you've said, just questioning to see if it is optimal.

[nosil]

22 minutes ago, AntLockyer said:

Nearly every putter misses left with 0 thought.

based on what I learned from @bargolf, I would change the putter to one that fixes the left miss with 0 thought stroke.   IMO, when under pressure to make a putt the compensations you make become harder and less consistent.  Answering your subject line question, I would fit the putter to the player since that is what they do “naturally”.  

[MattM97]

Why constantly fight or force a stroke to use a certain putter? If there is a putter that just fits and rolls well but not the one you want to play you could be leaving strokes out there. 

 

If you don't care about score play what you want, if you care about score play what works best. 

[AntLockyer]

3 hours ago, MattM97 said:

Why constantly fight or force a stroke to use a certain putter? If there is a putter that just fits and rolls well but not the one you want to play you could be leaving strokes out there. 

 

If you don't care about score play what you want, if you care about score play what works best. 

Yeah so that's basically what it boils down too and my thoughts are...

 

If I consistently hook the golf ball I don't buy new clubs, I'd address the closed face at impact. I can do that with full swing and putting. I guess some people do buy draw biased drivers or set their woods up to sit open etc. But we accept there is a fundamentally correct window for full swing and think nothing about embarking on a change.

 

I feel the same should be true in putting. Especially when it comes to Anser style plumber's neck putters. Which if that's all that existed I could do well with them with a little bit of work.

[PJE]

27 minutes ago, AntLockyer said:

f I consistently hook the golf ball I don't buy new clubs, I'd address the closed face at impact. I can do that with full swing and putting. I guess some people do buy draw biased drivers or set their woods up to sit open etc. But we accept there is a fundamentally correct window for full swing and think nothing about embarking on a change.

 

I feel the same should be true in putting. Especially when it comes to Anser style plumber's neck putters. Which if that's all that existed I could do well with them with a little bit of work.

You can learn a stroke to fit a putter.

But, it won’t always work. 
Anectdotally, I’ve done it with an 8802. 
Putting and the full swing are different.  There’s a reason why there are so many different putter types, including wild designs, in comparison to clubs, which are more or less the same. 
The Anser style is not some end all or be all in putter design. Its impetus was a response to the twisting tendencies of its contemporaries- Bullseyes and 8802s. 
But, if you’re determined you will be able to make it happen. But be prepared for putting to desert you from time to time. 
 

[AntLockyer]

Just now, PJE said:

But, if you’re determined you will be able to make it happen. But be prepared for putting to desert you from time to time. 
 

I'm just trying to find out what is 'right'. Currently have a putter that is basically 100% on start line and decent on pace. I guess if it ain't broke etc.

[nosil]

1 hour ago, AntLockyer said:

I'm just trying to find out what is 'right'. Currently have a putter that is basically 100% on start line and decent on pace. I guess if it ain't broke etc.

 

Both approaches are "right".   You make decisions on how you want to putt and what putter to use.  If you are starting the ball online and have decent pace no real reason to change. 

[North Butte]

19 minutes ago, nosil said:

 

Both approaches are "right".   You make decisions on how you want to putt and what putter to use.  If you are starting the ball online and have decent pace no real reason to change. 

Same is true for how you putt (the actual motion of your stroke). When I was a beginner I "realized" my way of setting up to putt looked kind of strange compared to other people I played with. So at one of my first golf lessons, I asked the pro to look at my stroke and tell me what I needed to do differently.

 

He took video from several angles including "worms eye" view from behind the ball. He had me putt with a line drawn on the ball. I was rolling it perfectly end over end (most of the time) and starting it directly on line. I needed to learn how to read greens and to develop my sense of pace but the ball was rolling nicely almost from Day One.

 

He congratulated me and said, "Don't change a thing. Most people have to work hard to get the ball to roll like that".

 

Of course he went on to say, "That's good because you got plenty to work on in the rest of your game"🤨

[Jeff58]

Your neutral shaft and weight distribution demands wrist action through the strike area, which demands an inconsistent face angle.

 

Compare yours to this -

 

https://bettinardi.com/pages/armlock-putting-bettinardi-golf

[byoshio82]

13 hours ago, AntLockyer said:

I do a lot of reps with this

I've also got a few different putters.

 

What I've found is that if I just swing I will miss left more often than not. I can feel the toe swinging round and that started me thinking about putters that closed less.

 

I've used a Taylormade Spider, Seemore FGP, bigger grips etc 

 

However I've found if I just swing with a slightly different feel (a bit more under, releasing the head up and past the hands) I can square the plumber's neck putters all the time 

 

Short of getting on Puttlab or similar. What's the approach here? Pick whatever I aim best with and swing it so it squares up?

Whatever gets the ball in the hole consistently. Doesn’t matter what does it. I always put the best when I just feel everything and trust my initial read and commit to it.

[chip75]

15 hours ago, AntLockyer said:

Short of getting on Puttlab or similar. What's the approach here? Pick whatever I aim best with and swing it so it squares up?

If there's a putter you can aim correctly, but shut the face down, it's worth asking what makes you aim that head correctly (if you have issues with other designs), then you can take knowledge at try it with something with less toe-hang. 

 

Someone like Edel might be a good fit. It's more face-balanced and you can match the aim lines to your current model.

 

[AntLockyer]

8 hours ago, Jeff58 said:

Your neutral shaft and weight distribution demands wrist action through the strike area, which demands an inconsistent face angle.

 

Compare yours to this -

 

https://bettinardi.com/pages/armlock-putting-bettinardi-golf

Why does it demand wrist action?

 

[Lou Loomis]

Are you left eye dominant?

 

I am curious to know what happens if:

 

1. you move the ball forward in your stance, just inside your left foot, and

2. if you stand a little farther away from the ball, with your eyes inside a couple inches rather than directly over the ball, and

3. "strengthen" your left hand grip and hide your left thumb under your right hand

4. just swing away

[chip75]

4 hours ago, AntLockyer said:

Why does it demand wrist action?

That's you with the Spider? from your setup you'd need some kind of forward shaft lean at impact, either through a forward press, some wrist hinge going back or added during the transition.

 

There's a decent drill with coins you can try, I'd imagine it's on YouTube somewhere.

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with your address, but you shouldn't return to that position at impact as you would probably be launching the ball too high it might even have a bit of backspin on it too. Tht might cause some left misses as well.

[North Butte]

My putter shaft is 100% vertical at address and vertical (give or take a small margin) of error at impact. I've never felt the need for any wrist hinge. So I'm not sure I agree with @chip75's idea of needing to deloft the putter somehow to put a good roll on the ball.

 

The only time I tend to see the ball come off the putter a little too high is when I let my ball position drift forward of center, which is tendency I do have to monitor and guard against from time to time. 

 

My intuition when I first started playing said to put the ball in the middle of my stance, hands in line with the ball, eyes directly over the ball and rock my shoulders instead of doing anything active with my hands. I've never really had any reason to think that wasn't the best way for me to putt.

[chip75]

1 hour ago, North Butte said:

My putter shaft is 100% vertical at address and vertical (give or take a small margin) of error at impact. I've never felt the need for any wrist hinge. So I'm not sure I agree with @chip75's idea of needing to deloft the putter somehow to put a good roll on the ball.

It will depend on your putter's loft and green speed to some extent. Around 2 degrees is optimal launch and most putter are 3-4. So there is some need for forward shaft lean at impact.

 

But it also dependent on your stroke philosophy, and how you see the wrists working during your stroke. One neat one is the notion of two putting styles, a Crenshaw style for long putts and a Stricker style for short ones!

[AntLockyer]

Loft at just after impact certainly doesn't look on the high side. 

Ball is rolling at this point.

 

Anyway, thanks everyone. I now feel like using the Spider is absolutely the correct thing to do and all other putters will be ignored 🙂