Scottie can't putt

[getitdaily]

Because his hands are too active and dominant in his stroke. You can see it when he putts.

[phizzy30]

Seems like his brain freezes up on the mid range putts.  Maybe nerves are getting the best of him hence the overactive hands.  Best ball striker on the planet right now and would win more tournaments if it wasn't for the flat stick, IMO. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by phizzy30

[dvq9654]

I’m not smart enough to know why he struggles on the greens, but I do know it must be incredibly frustrating for him. If he could get to top 100 strokes gained putting vs high 100s, you’d have to think he’d be winning 5+ times a season 

 

My theory with guys like him (eg DJ, Adam Scott, other elite ball strikers) is they’ve had it too easy for too long so didn’t grind on the greens as much as some others have. Probably overly simplistic, but if you’re 12 and winning everything cause you hit the ball better than everyone else, you probably let the little things on the green slide, and eventually that comes back to bite you (if being the best ball striker in the world and number one player is being “bitten”…) 

[ChaosTheory]

If his reactions are true, he seems like he mis-reads a lot of them.

[bladehunter]

7 hours ago, dvq9654 said:

I’m not smart enough to know why he struggles on the greens, but I do know it must be incredibly frustrating for him. If he could get to top 100 strokes gained putting vs high 100s, you’d have to think he’d be winning 5+ times a season 

 

My theory with guys like him (eg DJ, Adam Scott, other elite ball strikers) is they’ve had it too easy for too long so didn’t grind on the greens as much as some others have. Probably overly simplistic, but if you’re 12 and winning everything cause you hit the ball better than everyone else, you probably let the little things on the green slide, and eventually that comes back to bite you (if being the best ball striker in the world and number one player is being “bitten”…) 

Eh. I’d say it’s opposite.  They’ve probably spent more time than they need to on the greens and it becomes a mental issue wheb it doesn’t match the rest of their game . 
 

Putting doesn’t come natural to some folks . Just because it’s easy for a lot of 5 handicap amateurs doesn’t mean it’s easy to an elite level ballstriker.  
 

I personally wonder if it’s him being worse at putting , or has the field  just gotten better with All the tech and non conventional grips etc involved??  As in if everyone used a “blade” with a skinny grip , would they be as much better at putting vs Scotty or not ?  I don’t know.  But it’s an interesting idea. 

[wagolfer7]

2 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

 

Putting doesn’t come natural to some folks . Just because it’s easy for a lot of 5 handicap amateurs doesn’t mean it’s easy to an elite level ballstrikers

 

I don't think there really is any 5 hcp amateurs that can putt nearly as well as the worst putters on tour. 

 

Fast greens are harder period.  Yes it rolls smoother and can feel easy when rolling the ball well. But it's definitely harder.  

 

There is nothing a 5 hcp amateur is better at or equivalent to than a pga pro.  Nothing.  Not chipping, not putting, not ball striking, nothing.  

 

The stats are not comparable. You can't take data from amateurs at every day courses in non competition and compare it to pga player stats where they play tourney setup challenging courses in competition. 

 

Put a good putting 5 hcp amateur in those conditions and he would struggle a ton.  

 

It is funny to think of putting equipment though.  The two best clutch putters in my time are TW and Koepka. Both use blades. Certainly not the most popular it seems anymore.  

[bladehunter]

13 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

 

I don't think there really is any 5 hcp amateurs that can putt nearly as well as the worst putters on tour. 

 

Fast greens are harder period.  Yes it rolls smoother and can feel easy when rolling the ball well. But it's definitely harder.  

 

There is nothing a 5 hcp amateur is better at or equivalent to than a pga pro.  Nothing.  Not chipping, not putting, not ball striking, nothing.  

 

The stats are not comparable. You can't take data from amateurs at every day courses in non competition and compare it to pga player stats where they play tourney setup challenging courses in competition. 

 

Put a good putting 5 hcp amateur in those conditions and he would struggle a ton.  

 

It is funny to think of putting equipment though.  The two best clutch putters in my time are TW and Koepka. Both use blades. Certainly not the most popular it seems anymore.  

The 5 handicap comment wasn’t my point.  But I do disagree. As a +1 handicap I carry positive strokes gained stats for all short game categories as compared to pga tour stats via decade.   and I have for several years now.   One can absolutely be a tour level putter .  It’s the least physically demanding thing in the game. 
 

 

my thoughts on putting tech are this.   If it makes no difference then why do so many use “ aides “ outside of a thin grip and a flat face …,  is it all placebo ?  Could be.  Real question.  
 

I don’t agree on fast greens. But I think it’s truly a personal opinion deal.  Faster means less stroke needed.  So less “ hit”.  Which is much easier overall.  When it’s tricky is the short ones.  You just have to be hitting it on the intended line.  But that’s another argument.   
 

I just wonder if as a whole the tour has gotten better in the last 15 years or not. Are they making more putts? Is it like driving when there’s an old game anda new game ?  And Scottie’s playing the old game or ? 

Edited August 28, 2023 by bladehunter

[wagolfer7]

10 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

The 5 handicap comment wasn’t my point.  But I do disagree. As a +1 handicap I carry positive strokes gained stats for all short game categories as compared to pga tour stats via decade.   and I have for several years now.   One can absolutely be a tour level putter .  It’s the least physically demanding thing in the game. 
 

 

my thoughts on putting tech are this.   If it makes no difference then why do so many use “ aides “ outside of a thin grip and a flat face …,  is it all placebo ?  Could be.  Real question.  
 

I don’t agree on fast greens. But I think it’s truly a personal opinion deal.  Faster means less stroke needed.  So less “ hit”.  Which is much easier overall.  When it’s tricky is the short ones.  You just have to be hitting it on the intended line.  But that’s another argument.   
 

I just wonder if as a whole the tour has gotten better in the last 15 years or not. Are they making more putts? Is it like driving when there’s an old game anda new game ?  And Scottie’s playing the old game or ? 

 

Respectfully disagree. And that's OK. I like and respect your posts and point of view.  

 

But again I think the comparison in stats is worthless when it's not apples to apples.  Just look at the statistics of regular Joe's in competition versus normal.  Plus I've seen it enough in competition, when you get on greens rolling at 11.5 or higher with tough pin placements, lot of missed 3-4 footers and a ton of scared putting. Less stroke but hard to not blow it by without deceleration. 

 

I'm not sure about the trend on the PGA. I think it's the same for them as the long game.  Some weeks it's on and some off.  The better ones are more consistent keeping it from being way off. But to think we are better putters than them, seems funny to me.  But that's just my thoughts. 

[bladehunter]

8 hours ago, wagolfer7 said:

 

Respectfully disagree. And that's OK. I like and respect your posts and point of view.  

 

But again I think the comparison in stats is worthless when it's not apples to apples.  Just look at the statistics of regular Joe's in competition versus normal.  Plus I've seen it enough in competition, when you get on greens rolling at 11.5 or higher with tough pin placements, lot of missed 3-4 footers and a ton of scared putting. Less stroke but hard to not blow it by without deceleration. 

 

I'm not sure about the trend on the PGA. I think it's the same for them as the long game.  Some weeks it's on and some off.  The better ones are more consistent keeping it from being way off. But to think we are better putters than them, seems funny to me.  But that's just my thoughts. 

See I might could agree with you on the stats.  But it’s preached to high heaven and monetized , the message that we can in fact use strokes  gained as an amateur.     And I doubted , laughed at it for a long time. Then adopted it .  It works as a timeline for yourself.  But I still doubt it as a comparison tool.  Because there is no real data on amateurs playing on the same courses as me. 
 

so point taken.  There’s no real way to know as an am.  It’s all a guess based on incomplete data.  

[ShortGolfer]

Victor Hovland may be helped by the short summers in Norway.  Each year he has to adapt quickly to playing on grass so he is better able to adapt.

Greens not only change when it rains, but also throughout the day.  If you have a short season and learn to play from dawn to dusk that can be a big advantage.

There is an intelligence factor as well.  Watching putts and learning how the green is playing requires an intelligence missing from other parts of the game of golf.

[MK7Golf21]

1 hour ago, ShortGolfer said:

Victor Hovland may be helped by the short summers in Norway.  Each year he has to adapt quickly to playing on grass so he is better able to adapt.

Greens not only change when it rains, but also throughout the day.  If you have a short season and learn to play from dawn to dusk that can be a big advantage.

There is an intelligence factor as well.  Watching putts and learning how the green is playing requires an intelligence missing from other parts of the game of golf.

 

Pretty sure Hovland hasn't lived in Norway for awhile now. 

[bladehunter]

How’d this get changed from Sheffler to hovland ?  

[getitdaily]

6 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

How’d this get changed from Sheffler to hovland ?  

Typical thread fashion...make a post, get 2 replies related to it and 100 that go into 15 tangents.

[dfeldss]

On a recent NLU pod they said they heard from a player about Ted telling Scottie the putt was outside edge, then Scottie asks "which edge?"

 

I think he's just a terrible green reader

[Mike_C]

I've watched his stroke a lot the past month or so, slowed it down with the DVR, there is just something "off" slightly when I watch him putt, its not a Billy Mayfair or Will Zalatoris storke, but something seems just not right.  Almost all tour pros have other worldly good stokes, I can only dream of being half as good as those guys.   Scottie, I don't know, sometimes I see just the smallest of a hitch now and then, and that is all it takes to go average to near the bottom for a tour player on the greens. 

[getitdaily]

Just now, Mike_C said:

I've watched his stroke a lot the past month or so, slowed it down with the DVR, there is just something "off" slightly when I watch him putt, its not a Billy Mayfair or Will Zalatoris storke, but something seems just not right.  Almost all tour pros have other worldly good stokes, I can only dream of being half as good as those guys.   Scottie, I don't know, sometimes I see just the smallest of a hitch now and then, and that is all it takes to go average to near the bottom for a tour player on the greens. 

Yep. They don't often show his hands during the stroke. If you can get a shot where his hands are clearly and closely visible you'll see the hitch is at the start of the stroke where he gets the putter moving with his hands, not his forearms, or elbows, or shoulders like all other good strokes. 

[bcflyguy1]

Really feel for the guy.

After he rinsed his tee shot on 15 on Saturday, he walked ahead of Teddy and his playing partner to the drop area. After his partner hit his shot, they showed Teddy walking off the box and I'm pretty sure I saw Scheffler committing a felony assault on a shrubbery in the background. Physically exhausted and mentally completely snapped.

[goudok]

[slytown]

1 hour ago, dfeldss said:

On a recent NLU pod they said they heard from a player about Ted telling Scottie the putt was outside edge, then Scottie asks "which edge?"

 

I think he's just a terrible green reader

 

Yea, the stroke seems fine. I think he just can't read. Probably should go to aimpoint before it gets banned.

[bladehunter]

My opinion.   You hit a little snag.  You start to press.  Then they lip out for weeks. You press more.  Instead of saying “ calm down “ roll the ball… you start pressing more to force them in.  Until you get to a place where you no longer marry pace with line.  That feel is messed up. 
 

All the green reading voodoo on earth won’t fix that.  It takes giving up , and giving in and saying “ I’ll feel my way out of this “ by forgetting what the putt is for , and working on putting  to the picture ( as tiger says).  And being ok with shooting 75 if that is what happens , until……. Until the feel returns.  
 

or you abandon talent and go full mental and have to go the broomstick route.  It’s a fine line.  If you push to hard too long.  Yips are The only for sure outcome.  You will 100 % get then if you keep pressing. I’d say he’s close.  Or he has them and is hiding it well.  

Edited August 28, 2023 by bladehunter

[getitdaily]

1 minute ago, bladehunter said:

My opinion.   You hit a little snag.  You start to press.  Then they lip out for weeks. You press more.  Instead of saying “ calm down “ roll the ball… you start pressing more to force them in.  Until you get to a place where you no longer marry pace with line.  That feel is messed up. 
 

All the green reading voodoo on earth won’t fix that.  It takes giving up , and giving in and saying “ I’ll feel my way out of this “ by forgetting what the putt is for , and working on outing to the picture ( as tiger says).  And being ok with shooting 75 if that is what happens , until……. Until the feel returns.  
 

or you abandon talent and go full mental and have to go the broomstick route.  It’s a fine line.  If you push to hard too long.  Yips are The only for sure outcome.  You will 100 % get then if you keep pressing. I’d say he’s close.  Or he has them and is hiding it well.  

100%.

 

The keegan Bradley interview during the rain delay yesterday kind of spoke to this. He said he would get his stroke looked at on all yhe technology. Everything came back "your stroke is beautiful". He wanted an error he could focus on. 

 

It lead him to the realization that his aim was off. 

 

I have recently ventured into "give up the technical ". I've been on sam puttlab. My stroke is really good and really consistent. 

 

Along with aim practice (and using the line on the ball) I've also recently stopped practice strokes when I play. Now it's see the line and let it roll.

 

Trying to be less mechanical.