At what position should you “release” the club during the downswing??

[dabs]

I have a few issues that are deeply rooted in my golf swing. 
 

Had around 15 lessons in the past (been golfing for 1-1.5 years).

 

Recently started taking golf lessons with my girlfriend and with a new pro.

 

Had 2 lessons so far and basically I have issues with my address/stance (reverse spine) and also with how I am releasing the club.

 

I’ve had feedback before with my previous pro that I have a habit of dragging and holding onto my wrists instead of releasing.

 

So with the new pro, I was given some drills and have been working a lot to fix these issues. However, after nearly 1 month i find it harder and harder to hit the ball.

So my question is this: At what P position, should you release the club??

 

P7 or P8?

 

I feel like i’ve been trying to release my hands too early at P7 resulting in misshits and topping the ball a lot. A lot of inconsistencies.

 

However, today when I tried to focus on bringing my right forearm through and releasing later at P8, I’ve been hitting good and compressed shots.

 

This is how I’ve been striking the ball before the recent lessons so I am not sure whether it’s good to go back to my habits, or whether my new swing is different because I’ve worked so hard on the release.

 

[TheDeanAbides]

You should feel like you release it as the first move from the top. The entire downswing takes 0.2 seconds or so. 
 

I recommend going to the NTC thread.

 

 Edit: if you’re having issues with the backswing and pivot then trying to fix your release is a fool’s errand. Your release is likely trying to compensate for previous errors.

Edited September 12, 2023 by TheDeanAbides

[glk]

If by release you are talking about when the lead wrist begins to unhinge then this happens just before p5 (lead arm parallel in downswing) in elite swings (of course there is variation with earlier being more likely than later (especially amateurs) - though there are some swings that have an uncocking, recook, uncocking pattern) ) - wrist is not fully uncocked  until after impact.   

 

in the p system   P7 is impact and if the wrists haven't released before this then one will not hit the ball - just won't happen.   And most definitely if one holds thing s until p8 which is well into follow thru.

Edited September 12, 2023 by glk

[Sean124]

I feel like I release the vertical hinge immediately from the top. Anything after that just happens. 

[MonteScheinblum]

Feel……as early as possible.  As long as shift is correct.  See jack nicklaus.

 

Reality……vertical hinge around p 4.5-5…..horizontal hinge from 5.5-6

[slytown]

Release from the top of the backswing, with a proper backswing position and other 2 keys to the downswing: movement into your lead side and rotation.

[Smash Factors]

18 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Feel……as early as possible.  As long as shift is correct.  See jack nicklaus.

 

Reality……vertical hinge around p 4.5-5…..horizontal hinge from 5.5-6

 

Solid advice, but any concerns with people taking the advice to literally and end up casting the club?

 

Maybe he should swing a club with no head on it and check to see where the swoosh is happening?

[TheDeanAbides]

9 minutes ago, Smash Factors said:

 

Solid advice, but any concerns with people taking the advice to literally and end up casting the club?

 

Maybe he should swing a club with no head on it and check to see where the swoosh is happening?

If you sequence and shift correctly you won’t cast, although it’ll feel like you are if you’ve been a “hold the lag” player. 

[dabs]

10 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

You should feel like you release it as the first move from the top. The entire downswing takes 0.2 seconds or so. 
 

I recommend going to the NTC thread.

 

 Edit: if you’re having issues with the backswing and pivot then trying to fix your release is a fool’s errand. Your release is likely trying to compensate for previous errors.

Thank you for the feedback. I've watched a lot of videos on reverse pivot/spine. Still working on fixing it as it's really hard.

 

As a beginner, should I not take this video into account? I feel like the below is teaching me to drag my forearm forward and accross the body and leads me to not release my wrists properly?

 

 

 

[golfarb1]

5 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Feel……as early as possible.  As long as shift is correct.  See jack nicklaus.

 

Reality……vertical hinge around p 4.5-5…..horizontal hinge from 5.5-6

 

[TheDeanAbides]

8 hours ago, dabs said:

Thank you for the feedback. I've watched a lot of videos on reverse pivot/spine. Still working on fixing it as it's really hard.

 

As a beginner, should I not take this video into account? I feel like the below is teaching me to drag my forearm forward and accross the body and leads me to not release my wrists properly?

 

 

 

Show us your swing 🙂

[Zitlow]

The shaft should catch up with the left arm at impact, with most people the shaft catches up with the left arm before impact. 

 

 

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

27 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

The shaft should catch up with the left arm at impact, with most people the shaft catches up with the left arm before impact. 

 

 

 

 

I’m not sure that’s true. Just as many people drag the handle and fail to release at all.

[MK7Golf21]

25 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I’m not sure that’s true. Just as many people drag the handle and fail to release at all.

 

They drag and fail to release because of path issues many times. Arms/club comes across the body like an over the top move. Gets chicken wingy and the club doesn't release properly. Happens a lot with EE where the body cramps the space for arms and to avoid hitting push slices or blocks they start to pull the arms and club across the body like I described. 

 

You get that path fixed and the club will naturally release on its own.

[Zitlow]

24 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I’m not sure that’s true. Just as many people drag the handle and fail to release at all.

 

That might be true from guys chasing shaft lean but from most of the swings I see posted here the shaft catches up too early and they drag the handle through impact. 

 

At P5 his shaft is loaded, it catches up with his left arm at impact not before.  

 

[TheDeanAbides]

10 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

They drag and fail to release because of path issues many times. Arms/club comes across the body like an over the top move. Gets chicken wingy and the club doesn't release properly. Happens a lot with EE where the body cramps the space for arms and to avoid hitting push slices or blocks they start to pull the arms and club across the body like I described. 

 

You get that path fixed and the club will naturally release on its own.

That’s often true. 

[Rapidcat]

26 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

 

That might be true from guys chasing shaft lean but from most of the swings I see posted here the shaft catches up too early and they drag the handle through impact. 

 

At P5 his shaft is loaded, it catches up with his left arm at impact not before.  

 

 

Yep, true for his driver with a more forward ball position.

 

Here he is with an iron with a ball position further back:

[Zitlow]

5 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

 

Yep, true for his driver with a more forward ball position.

 

Here he is with an iron with a ball position further back:

 

Excellent. He has shaft lean because the ball is farther back, he didn't release the club incorrectly and his COM is a few inches ahead of where it was at address. 

 

[Rapidcat]

1 minute ago, Zitlow said:

 

Excellent. He has shaft lean because the ball is farther back, he didn't release the club incorrectly and his COM is a few inches ahead of where it was at address. 

 

 

Exactly

[slytown]

1 hour ago, Zitlow said:

 

That might be true from guys chasing shaft lean but from most of the swings I see posted here the shaft catches up too early and they drag the handle through impact. 

 

At P5 his shaft is loaded, it catches up with his left arm at impact not before.  

 

 

Casting is a result of poor sequencing. It is not because they released the club from the top. EVERYONE needs to release the club from the top.

 

I don't think anyone should be basing release on static photos of swings. We can't see the forces happening. I assure you, Koepka is not "holding" angles. He is releasing from the top.

 

@dab Listen to your coach. If you are struggling, that's normal. YOU WILL NOT FIX THINGS IN 1 MONTH.

Edited September 13, 2023 by slytown

[MK7Golf21]

6 minutes ago, slytown said:

 

Casting is a result of poor sequencing. It is not because they released the club from the top. EVERYONE needs to release the club from the top.

 

I don't think anyone should be basing release on static photos of swings. We can't see the forces happening. I assure you, Koepka is not "holding" angles. He is releasing from the top.

 

@dab Listen to your coach. If you are struggling, that's normal. YOU WILL NOT FIX THINGS IN 1 MONTH.

 

Feels are different for everyone, I'm not sure everyone needs to feel a release from the top based on that. 

[JayMas]

Independent of strike quality, what does it look like on video when you do these drills? Or when you take a slower swing after doing the drills in order to incorporate what you're learning? That's what's most important. Very rarely when changing an ingrained motor pattern are you going to see contact improvement right away. The body needs to learn.
 

Sometimes, contact improvement can happen relatively fast depending on the issue and how fast you can start to incorporate new motor patterns, but not necessarily.

 

If your instructor is good and has identified an early enough root cause for the things you described, then what you look like on video in the drills or in slow swings incorporating your feels from the drills...is going to look better than your old, full swing even if contact isn't as good

 

Or you're not doing drills correctly/the new stuff isn't translating yet to full swings - even slow ones. Have to check yourself on video to know. Basing the effectiveness of incorporating new motor patterns based solely on strike quality is a fools errand. You've spent years developing compensations that allow you to at least hit the ball decent.

Edited September 13, 2023 by JayMas

[Zitlow]

59 minutes ago, slytown said:

 

Casting is a result of poor sequencing. It is not because they released the club from the top. EVERYONE needs to release the club from the top.

 

I don't think anyone should be basing release on static photos of swings. We can't see the forces happening. I assure you, Koepka is not "holding" angles. He is releasing from the top.

 

@dab Listen to your coach. If you are struggling, that's normal. YOU WILL NOT FIX THINGS IN 1 MONTH.

 

Then tell me, how does Koepka release the club? 

 

 

 

 

[DaveMc82]

Without knowing where you are at the top of the backswing, it’s impossible to give a proper answer. 
 

IF you get your right elbow separated (flying) during the backswing, doing the move Pete Cowen describes will give you massive blocks or block fades/slices as the face will be crazy open. 
 

If you fold the right arm correctly, you can feel like you release the club from the top and not hit super huge hooks. 
 

If your pro can get you at a good 3/4 backswing position and get get you feeling like you release the club from the top AND hit it low, you’ll uncover the holy grail of distance, compression and accuracy. 

[dabs]

17 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Show us your swing 🙂

 

Here! 

 

 

[dabs]

7 hours ago, slytown said:

 

Casting is a result of poor sequencing. It is not because they released the club from the top. EVERYONE needs to release the club from the top.

 

I don't think anyone should be basing release on static photos of swings. We can't see the forces happening. I assure you, Koepka is not "holding" angles. He is releasing from the top.

 

@dab Listen to your coach. If you are struggling, that's normal. YOU WILL NOT FIX THINGS IN 1 MONTH.

 

Thank you. This is my swing with the "feel" of my trail forearm moving across the body during the downswing close to the body.

 

 

 

 

 

[MPStrat]

47 minutes ago, dabs said:

 

Thank you. This is my swing with the "feel" of my trail forearm moving across the body during the downswing close to the body.

 

 

 

 

 

Definitely a casting move. Dtl would tell more, but your grip is pretty weak which also affects your setup. Do you have a dtl view? 

[golfarb1]

Try the closed face drill

Setup with the clubface aiming towards the target . Then loosen your grip , aim  the clubface 20 degrees LEFT   of your target  and then tighten your grip to normal pressure . 
Then try to hit the ball at your own target 

The only way to avoid hitting the ball off of the planet left is to lag the clubhead  and to swing inside-out . 

Edited September 14, 2023 by golfarb1

[dabs]

4 hours ago, MPStrat said:

Definitely a casting move. Dtl would tell more, but your grip is pretty weak which also affects your setup. Do you have a dtl view? 

Thank you for the feedback. I thought my grip was pretty neutral. Guess not. Here's down the line during one of my recent lessons. I didn't know what casting was until today. Will lead up on it. My wrists used to be pretty weak during the takeaway which I have been working on. So I definitely need to work on my "wrists" & "release" during the downswing?????

 

 

 

 

 

[MPStrat]

Grip is pretty palmy and not my preference, I’ll be honest. Your clubface isn’t wildly open here, though, which is the most important thing. 
 

But overall your swing is pretty good.
 

Biggest thing is I don’t like the static footwork in your takeaway. Your lower body movement needs cleaned up overalll. Your arms take the club away before you shift to the right foot, which causes you to camp out on your right foot too long. Shift into the right side should be earlier before the club moves in the takeaway and shift into left side should begin earlier before you start your downswing.