When did your child's swing "stabilize"?

[caligolfer2103]

I'm not a golfer, so am asking this purely from a perspective of trying to learn. My son is 12. Been playing golf for about 5 years. Started to get more serious this summer and is now practicing 10 - 15 hours a week. He still plays high level club soccer but this is likely his final season (maybe one more) at which point he'll be all golf.

 

I've noticed that his swing form can seemingly change overnight. Which is good in the sense that he can implement changes really quickly. But bad, in that for no reason, he'll develop some random "thing" that messes him up. Good example is none of his instructors ever forced him to do a proper elbow fold but one day, a couple months ago, I basically watched a Porzak video on the takeaway/backswing and made him implement a proper fold. He got it almost immediately, which fixed a number of things he'd been working on, like club path. Fast forward to today and all of a sudden, yesterday, he started losing his club path (going right to left instead of left to right). So we spent a good hour or two trying to figure it out but eventually realized it was because his elbow fold was not as good and once he fixed it again, back to normal.

 

So, I guess my question is how common is this, where you just "lose" your form overnight, for no real reason and is this something that happens even as you get older? Or is it in part because younger kids' bodies are changing so fast that things beyond our understanding are happening which can cause things to get out of whack? Just curious because I'm a super type A perfectionist (which is probably why golf drove me crazy) and so the idea that this can happen seems ludicrous! 

[kekoa]

My son has been playing for about 8 years now.  I'll let you know when his swing stabilizes.  😞

[caligolfer2103]

6 minutes ago, kekoa said:

My son has been playing for about 8 years now.  I'll let you know when his swing stabilizes.  😞

Haha, ok, so that's what I figured 🙂 

[mrshinsa]

Funny, my son is 15 and just the other day he mentioned, in his words, "most of his peer's swings have stabilized".  

 

Hopefully that means I'm done buying golf clubs.  

[caligolfer2103]

38 minutes ago, mrshinsa said:

Funny, my son is 15 and just the other day he mentioned, in his words, "most of his peer's swings have stabilized".  

 

Hopefully that means I'm done buying golf clubs.  

So funny. So there is hope! It's just really hard because while he does work regularly with an instructor, during his own practice time, it's not always easy to diagnose what's going on. He's definitely gotten better about figuring things out, but it can be a really frustrating process and I can't help him much.

[leezer99]

You ever see those videos of the giant ocean bound freighters in a storm where the waves are crashing over the cabin? You know they aren't going to sink but are getting absolutely ravaged. That's about how 'stabilized' my son's swing is. 

[jj9000]

Once the kid gets into a groove with any sort of swing...they grow.  Once they hit a growth spurt, there's a period of time where they are like a fresh baby giraffe on ice skates.  They've gotta take some time to learn their new bodies...and how to get the same results with a somewhat different swing.  Sticking to fundamentals is crucial b/c his/her swing is going to continue to evolve as they grow.  But, if they have the fundamental base ingrained, they can apply the same fundamentals to their new bodies.

 

It's frustrating as all get out to watch a kid not progress...or...get worse for 6 months while trying to figure it out.  I've always been in the camp that weekly lessons at 7/8/9/10 are overkill...past the fundamentals.  All of these kids' swings are going to change once they grow.  I think just letting them play 18, and continuing to practice allows them figure it out on their own.  I know some here will have different opinions, but that's my two cents.

[caligolfer2103]

2 hours ago, jj9000 said:

Once the kid gets into a groove with any sort of swing...they grow.  Once they hit a growth spurt, there's a period of time where they are like a fresh baby giraffe on ice skates.  They've gotta take some time to learn their new bodies...and how to get the same results with a somewhat different swing.  Sticking to fundamentals is crucial b/c his/her swing is going to continue to evolve as they grow.  But, if they have the fundamental base ingrained, they can apply the same fundamentals to their new bodies.

 

It's frustrating as all get out to watch a kid not progress...or...get worse for 6 months while trying to figure it out.  I've always been in the camp that weekly lessons at 7/8/9/10 are overkill...past the fundamentals.  All of these kids' swings are going to change once they grow.  I think just letting them play 18, and continuing to practice allows them figure it out on their own.  I know some here will have different opinions, but that's my two cents.

Yeah, I think its the growth spurts! Which mean all of a sudden, a stance that felt comfortable with a certain club length no longer feels right. We've gone through weekly lessons to build strong golf swing fundamentals but are starting to pull back to 2x monthly and I imagine over time will go less.

 

Just curious, since you mention the fundamental base... What are the things you keep an eye on, regardless of changes? I think for me, it's been 1) the takeaway and then 2) the elbow fold. Everything else seems to flow from there and one of those 2 is almost the always the root of his issues, but always interested to hear what other areas are of focus.

[wildcatden]

[caligolfer2103]

11 minutes ago, wildcatden said:

OMG, where is this from? This is so good. I can totally see some crazy parent taking this seriously. But this is like golf thought bingo and i'm pretty sure i've told my son each of these at some point in time before realizing it was crazy.

[Bizzle80]

So as a golfer, there is no such thing as a swing 'stabilizing'. Every pro in the world's swing changes on a day to day, round by round, hole by hole basis as your body changes ever so slightly.  For kids that means growth spurts, hormone surges, exhaustion levels, dehydration, focus...a million things... 

 

You can't worry about correcting every 'fault' on every swing. Sometimes, just need to play the swing you HAVE that day and not the swing you WANT to have that day. Pushing everything right? Play it and aim a bit left... thats golf. There is no stabilizing even for the best in the world - they just do a better job of accepting that and playing the misses.

 

I think its incredibly important to understand this for junior golfers so they dont get down on themselves when everything is not perfect on any given day... parents (or junior golfers) should not be expecting perfection in every swing. It's not realistic and frankly impossible. Tiger Woods spent months unable to hit a chip shot. Carlotta Ciganda just won the Solheim Cup for Europe sticking two approach shots to tap in's down the stretch - literally after dead shanking a ball the previous hole.

 

Nothing makes me crazier than non-golfer parents grunting when their kids miss putts or hit imperfect shots in tournaments. It sets a terrible precedent and is frankly so unfair to these kids that are already so freaking good. Don't be that guy...

 

 

 

 

[caligolfer2103]

@Bizzle80 that is really helpful to hear. Intuitively, I know what you're saying is true, but sometimes it's great to get that reminder. I used to be that dad and get frustrated / annoyed when we couldn't fix things. But he's surpassed what I ever was as a golfer and honestly, if where he is today is where he taps out at, I'd be like, dude, you break 80 and most people never do. We've actually got a nice thing going now where when he's struggling, we can go work on it together and patiently try to figure out what's going on. Although, I still struggle with the "non-golfer parents grunting when their kids miss putts or hit imperfect shots in tournaments." In my case, it's the head shake and rolling of eyes, it's a weakness that I am trying to fix 🙂 luckily he's got thick skin and pretty resilient... have seen a lot of kids who screw up one hole and fall apart whereas he can shoot some godawful score on the front 9 and just put it away and finish strong on the back 9, which I hope he never loses!

[Medson]

6 years old. The kid should stabilize the swing by 6 yo and should perfect it by 7. Sorry guys, I'm just having a long week. 

 

Instead of chasing stabilized/Instagram-perfect swings, maybe develop the understanding of your own swing characteristics. So that the player can self diagnose the issues during the tournament week? 

 

I also strongly advise against watching YouTube videos. I went down that path and did not go anywhere. You end up fixing the symptoms, not the root cause. It's like dog chasing its own tails. Just don't do that. Find a qualified instructor and trust him/her. 

[Bizzle80]

6 hours ago, Medson said:

You end up fixing the symptoms, not the root cause. It's like dog chasing its own tails. Just don't do that. Find a qualified instructor and trust him/her. 

 

yes this! Kids (and adults) need a coach who really understands the mechanics of the body and swing. Need to fix the cause...not patch a symptom.

[Bizzle80]

9 hours ago, caligolfer2103 said:

Intuitively, I know what you're saying is true, but sometimes it's great to get that reminder.

 

Bro, half the time I speak that kind of advice out loud or on here - it's because I am reminding myself of the same thing. It is so easy to get frustrated with them if you allow yourself...

 

I am lucky my daughter and I have been through those stages and now we work really well together on the course (when I am caddying). I let her own her own game and am just there to offer reminders or support her decisions (and carry the bag and clean the clubs and pay for everything...)

 

Honestly, if we went and caddied in tournaments for someone else's kid we would be so much better as caddies than we are for our own. You would not be eye-rolling and grunting when someone else's kid missed shots/putts etc...so why do we treat our own that way.

[caligolfer2103]

13 hours ago, Bizzle80 said:

Honestly, if we went and caddied in tournaments for someone else's kid we would be so much better as caddies than we are for our own. You would not be eye-rolling and grunting when someone else's kid missed shots/putts etc...so why do we treat our own that way.

On the one hand, we do all the histrionics because we care more about our own kids. Like, if I'm caddying for someone else's kid, I don't really care how they do. On the other hand, I'm sure it's annoying as hell for the kid...

[Bizzle80]

2 hours ago, caligolfer2103 said:

On the one hand, we do all the histrionics because we care more about our own kids. Like, if I'm caddying for someone else's kid, I don't really care how they do. On the other hand, I'm sure it's annoying as hell for the kid...

 

I read some guy talking about caddying for kids...and points out that as parents when we are caddying...we have to be a caddy. Not a coach, not a parent, just a caddy. And caddies are there to support their player. You will never see a professional caddy eye-rolling and throwing attitude to their player...so why would we to our kid.

 

 

[caligolfer2103]

4 hours ago, Bizzle80 said:

 

I read some guy talking about caddying for kids...and points out that as parents when we are caddying...we have to be a caddy. Not a coach, not a parent, just a caddy. And caddies are there to support their player. You will never see a professional caddy eye-rolling and throwing attitude to their player...so why would we to our kid.

 

 

Yep! Gotta take the emotion out of it. Getting better by the day, but it's not easy for this one generation removed from the boat, Tiger dad...

[kekoa]

On 9/28/2023 at 8:47 AM, caligolfer2103 said:

On the one hand, we do all the histrionics because we care more about our own kids. Like, if I'm caddying for someone else's kid, I don't really care how they do. On the other hand, I'm sure it's annoying as hell for the kid...

Trust me.  If I caddy for another kid, which I've done a few times in larger tournaments I really do care how they play.  Otherwise, what's the point?  The kids I caddied for were also very good players.  

[caligolfer2103]

On 10/11/2023 at 10:04 AM, kekoa said:

Trust me.  If I caddy for another kid, which I've done a few times in larger tournaments I really do care how they play.  Otherwise, what's the point?  The kids I caddied for were also very good players.  

Yeah, you're probably right. I love kids. Am a total sucker. And if someone ever asked me to caddy, I'd totally get into it....

[caligolfer2103]

Now I'm totally seeing what everyone on this thread was talking about. My kid seemingly shot up 2 inches overnight. So all of a sudden, he has to have more knee bend to get to the right height for his clubs. Which started throwing other stuff out of whack. But we didn't figure it out until he mentioned dad, i feel all crunched up in my stance now! It's just a continual work in progress and the swing never stabilizes, in part bc the kid's body hasn't stabilized yet either.

[AC168]

For boys, I'd say size-wise around 19.  Swing-wize, if you have a great swing / instructor / movement ability then around 19, otherwise, it could be much later.  If professional, I'm guessing every day is different and there is a never ending pursuit of getting better.