Does this qualify?

[Shilgy]

For abnormal course conditions? In lieu of the course marking massive areas as GUR would this be covered?

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/seven-canyons-golf-club-arizona-javelina-hog-pig-damage-video?utm_medium=email&utm_source=102423&utm_campaign=newsandtours&utm_content=DM45519&uuid=8a0e6a26-43d9-4552-890f-cae660892c4e

 

Based on the rule as written it would seem to be no relief.

 

An animal hole does not include animal footprints that are not part of a worn down track or trail leading into an animal hole.

[tatertot]

15 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

For abnormal course conditions? In lieu of the course marking massive areas as GUR would this be covered?

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/seven-canyons-golf-club-arizona-javelina-hog-pig-damage-video?utm_medium=email&utm_source=102423&utm_campaign=newsandtours&utm_content=DM45519&uuid=8a0e6a26-43d9-4552-890f-cae660892c4e

 

Based on the rule as written it would seem to be no relief.

 

An animal hole does not include animal footprints that are not part of a worn down track or trail leading into an animal hole.

That's a shame ...

[st1800e]

Those aren’t footprints. All holes dug by the animals.  

[Newby]

Ground under repair: Any part of the course the Committee defines to be GUR (whether by marking it or otherwise).

 

The definition describes areas that may be be defined as GUR but the definition does not preclude any other area being defined as GUR.

 

An example of such an area is in the Clarifications:

 

Examples of damage that is not ground under repair by default include:

• A rut made by a tractor (but the Committee is justified in declaring a deep rut to be ground under repair).

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Newby

[Shilgy]

4 hours ago, st1800e said:

Those aren’t footprints. All holes dug by the animals.  

Pretty sure they are hoof prints. That’s what they do to turf when they run.  By the rule no relief from hoof prints unless it’s a well worn track. Are this may be damage but it’s certainly not a well worn track.

 

@Newby I realize it CAN be marked as GUR.  But it’s going to take a lot of paint.  Can they just say all of it is GUR?  Without a temporary rule can a player take relief? 
Also…let’s say a bulk of the damage is on holes 10,18,17,16 and the club says damage on those holes is GUR.  If a player when playing encounters a smaller area of the same damage on hole 15 would he get relief?

[sui generis]

16 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

they are hoof prints.

 

That damage resembles damage from bears, skunks and crows digging up the turf in the autumn looking for grubs. The javalinas might be on a similar quest. If so, I'd have no hesitation is seeing that as animal holes. 🙂

[Shilgy]

3 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

That damage resembles damage from bears, skunks and crows digging up the turf in the autumn looking for grubs. The javalinas might be on a similar quest. If so, I'd have no hesitation is seeing that as animal holes. 🙂

Which raises a question.  When first encountering that damage do you know? Is “might be” enough to get relief when if hoof prints you would not get relief?

[Pepperturbo]

22 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Pretty sure they are hoof prints. That’s what they do to turf when they run.  By the rule no relief from hoof prints unless it’s a well worn track. Are this may be damage but it’s certainly not a well worn track.

 

Most of the damage comes from Havolina (pigs) using their snout to root under turf to find grubs and roots.  They are rampant in AZ and TX where some of our relatives live and we visit.   Hard to stop them as they show up in packs overnight, we typically play the damage as ground under repair. 

[Shilgy]

2 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Most of the damage comes from Havolina (pigs) using their snout to root under turf to find grubs and roots.  They are rampant in AZ and TX where some of our relatives live and we visit.   Hard to stop them as they show up in packs overnight, we typically play the damage as ground under repair. 

I get what we commonly do.  I’m just clarifying what the rule actually is.

 

ps Javelina 

[Pepperturbo]

Just now, Shilgy said:

I get what we commonly do.  I’m just clarifying what the rule actually is.

 

ps Javelina 

LOL Dyslexia at its finest.  Thank goodness I am ambidextrous.  Played a number of tournaments in AZ & TX; never encountered a rule written for JAVELINA damage, only local club rules.

[sui generis]

9 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Which raises a question.  When first encountering that damage do you know? Is “might be” enough to get relief when if hoof prints you would not get relief?

 

If you're asking what the referee would do, I suspect referees know their territory and would rule on the spot. For the player from out of town encountering such a mess, they should play two balls iaw 20.1c3.

[sui generis]

Just to further complicate this, I'll offer that I know of a course in Florida with "wild hogs" who tear up the course, but mostly in the wet areas all of which are marked as red penalty areas and thus GUR relief is not available. It's suck it up or ABC.

[Avidswampthing66]

I can only imagine what the Super is feeling right now.  Holy hell batman.  Somebody send him a good bourbon.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Avidswampthing66

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

2 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Most of the damage comes from Havolina (pigs) using their snout to root under turf to find grubs and roots.  They are rampant in AZ and TX where some of our relatives live and we visit.   Hard to stop them as they show up in packs overnight, we typically play the damage as ground under repair. 

Armadillos can do similar damage, though less extensive in my experience.  There's an informal beginners course (and disc golf course) near Houston that's inundated with them.  Not an official ruling, but I've treated it as GIR, like you mentioned.

 

Feral pigs are a scourge.  Sometimes, a tasty, tasty scourge.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

Its almost like the divot discussions. If we go with all animal damage is AGC, basically the whole course will be AGC as you'll have to find what ISNT damaged by animals. Bugs, slugs, bacteria, are droppings damage. etc.? The fun one is skunk damage. Skunks dig burrows, but the damage they do golf courses are not generally burrows except around the buildings on the course. If we deem that damage because it was done by a burrowing animal you get relief. Crows, raccoons, wild hogs make similar damage to the course, are we going to have to have a nuisance trapper ,game warden or biologist come out and ID the damage to ascertain it was by a burrowing or non-borrowing animal? Fox and coyotes live in burrows. They dont necessarily dig the burrows, often preferring to take over ground hog or badger dens. So are diggings by those critters covered? 

[596]

I used to live very close to Seven Canyons Golf Course in Sedona.  I played there often.  Javelina are every where there.  We had them in our yard all the time.  They dig up the roots of the turf and create huge holes.  But not just single holes. It looks like someone took a hoe and dug up the entire area.  You literally can't play out of the damage.  Some of the damage area can be a foot deep.  You'd either have to take a penalty drop or I'm sure the course has declared those areas as ground under repair.   

[sui generis]

One of the beauties of 2019 is that we no longer have to contemplate "burrowing" as a qualifying animal trait.

 

https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#!ruletype=fr&section=definitions&subrulenum=4

 

In my experience most referees are not kept awake at night worrying about which animal holes are animal holes.

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

Armadillos can do similar damage, though less extensive in my experience.  There's an informal beginners course (and disc golf course) near Houston that's inundated with them.  Not an official ruling, but I've treated it as GIR, like you mentioned.

 

Feral pigs are a scourge.  Sometimes, a tasty, tasty scourge.

 

Don’t shoot them in Arizona!

 

https://s3.amazonaws.com/azgfd-portal-wordpress/PortalImages/files/wildlife/livingwith/Javelina_Brochure_12-12-06.pdf

[antip]

7 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Pretty sure they are hoof prints. That’s what they do to turf when they run.  By the rule no relief from hoof prints unless it’s a well worn track. Are this may be damage but it’s certainly not a well worn track.

 

@Newby I realize it CAN be marked as GUR.  But it’s going to take a lot of paint.  Can they just say all of it is GUR?  Without a temporary rule can a player take relief? 
Also…let’s say a bulk of the damage is on holes 10,18,17,16 and the club says damage on those holes is GUR.  If a player when playing encounters a smaller area of the same damage on hole 15 would he get relief?

I can't see the picture (just sent to a home page and an invite to subscribe) but animal impact on a course can be covered with generic wording declaring Rule 16.1 relief. It would be unusual for a Committee faced with significant animal impact to believe that is the intended challenge of their course. If the Committee defines it as animal damage it doesn't need to be individually marked. We do this seasonally with bird damage, avoids anyone debating whether they are "animal holes".

[Newby]

3 hours ago, antip said:

 If the Committee defines it as animal damage it doesn't need to be individually marked. 

👍

[Pepperturbo]

16 hours ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

Feral pigs are a scourge.  Sometimes, a tasty, tasty scourge.

Using nato 5.56, they B fun target practice 😂

[Pepperturbo]

16 hours ago, 596 said:

I used to live very close to Seven Canyons Golf Course in Sedona

Off subject, I really like that course and the units.  Considered buying there, still may, IF they make them full-time.  A buddy has a home not far from SC.

[596]

I owned Casa Sedona Bed and Breakfast Inn just off Dry Creek Rd which leads back to Seven Canyons.  Played there, Sedona Golf Resort, Oak Creek Country Club frequently. Gorgeous area but way too many tourists for me in retirement. 

[dugue4]

FWIW I saw this story on X (Twitter) and 95% of the comments were anti-golf course and pro-javelina.  Bots or golf haters, who knows?

Edited October 26, 2023 by dugue4