Colorado WRX 2024

[Leaky_Bucket29]

I'd also be down for a round at walnut creek depending on the date. 

[CDM]

Saturday was CG first nens club stroke play event.   All  I heard was the course is in excellent shape but it went BAD.....   

 

Recieved this eamil on pace of play.

 

Now maybe I am wrong but  "16 minute spacing from group in front" ? Really?     To me that seems wrong...!   All it takes which I heard happened is 3 of the first 11-12 groups out where near the 16 mins spacing.  Which pushed all the other players into 5hr plus rounds.

 

Note: As noted was not there but  I heard it was 5hr round for mid morning players and 5hr plus for the late afternoon players. Was told this event they put the High HDCP players off first and championship players last.

 

All,

 

During Saturday’s Event (ISP #1) the first group out had a pace of play of 4 hours and 40 minutes. This is unacceptable and backs up the course for the whole day. As a result, that group has been penalized accordingly.

 

Pace of Play Regulations:

• All groups MUST complete their round in 4 hours and 30 minutes OR they must be within 16 minutes of the group before them.
• Groups must meet the time checkpoints after hole 5, 12 and 18 OR they must be within 16 minutes of the group before them
• Groups that miss two check points will be penalized two strokes.  Groups that miss three check points you will be penalized four strokes and will forfeit any skins or proxies.

 

Advice for Maintaining Pace of Play:

To assist you in maintaining pace of play, please consider the following advice:

• Hit Provisionals: If there is any chance you might lose your ball, it is advisable to hit provisionals to keep the game moving.
• Time Limit for Searching: You have a maximum of three minutes to search for your ball. Please set a timer on your phone to be aware of how long 3 minutes lasts.
• Be Conscious of the Group Ahead: Please be aware of the group ahead of you and be prepared to make up pace immediately after a slow hole.
• Max Score Regulation: Except for the Championship Flight, the maximum score allowed is NET DOUBLE BOGEY. Please pick up your ball when you have reached net double bogey to avoid unnecessary delays.

 

We take pace of play seriously.  If we continue to experience slow play, we will increase the penalties and/or disqualifications from events.

[Joelness]

I'm in also

[007iron]

11 hours ago, ztull said:

Man, I maybe can, espically since I'm having a hell of a time getting my rounds comped at Redlands. Battlement Mesa is better?

I'm seeing Battlement just punched

ah yes. Punched greens maybe make it not quite worth the drive over. But it’s an excellent course. 
 

tiara rado is fun in junction too - you may want to go back to Devils Thumb based on how much fun you’ll have 

[ASak10]

9 hours ago, CDM said:

Saturday was CG first nens club stroke play event.   All  I heard was the course is in excellent shape but it went BAD.....   

 

Recieved this eamil on pace of play.

 

Now maybe I am wrong but  "16 minute spacing from group in front" ? Really?     To me that seems wrong...!   All it takes which I heard happened is 3 of the first 11-12 groups out where near the 16 mins spacing.  Which pushed all the other players into 5hr plus rounds.

 

Note: As noted was not there but  I heard it was 5hr round for mid morning players and 5hr plus for the late afternoon players. Was told this event they put the High HDCP players off first and championship players last.

Didn’t play either (instead got to drive from Denver to Boulder, back to Denver, then up to Windsor and back for kids sports. Was right next to Rain Dance, should have brought my clubs!). But yeah 4:40 for the first group out is not good at all. I’m glad they’re enforcing and penalizing groups for it. I don’t think the 16 minutes is that crazy though, a 4 hour round means you average a little over 13 minutes a hole. So if you’re waiting to hit your approach and the other group gets off the green, how fast will a foursome finish? Figure if you probably should be around 13-14 minutes after, giving a couple minutes grace period/wiggle room seems fair, but maybe I’m looking at it wrong. 

 

They rotate the order of which group tees off first with the tourneys. So one tourney low go first, next one high might go first, next one mid group goes out first. 
 

 

[Dancin]

That's a lot of work for the course to have people out there timing, but good to see it. Even 4:30 is an insanely slow pace for CG. That course should be 4:15 at the most. CG men's club has so many members they should also kick people out after two slow times. For every foursome that gets penalized, ask each person in the foursome who was most responsible. If a player gets two votes, they're on the warning list and if it happens again they're out.

[ASak10]

5 minutes ago, Dancin said:

That's a lot of work for the course to have people out there timing, but good to see it. Even 4:30 is an insanely slow pace for CG. That course should be 4:15 at the most. CG men's club has so many members they should also kick people out after two slow times. For every foursome that gets penalized, ask each person in the foursome who was most responsible. If a player gets two votes, they're on the warning list and if it happens again they're out.

I’m guessing they’re using the GPS pods to time people. They’ve tried all sorts of things (time stamp machines, someone driving around checking times, etc) but the GPS probably makes it much easier to track. I like the warning/kick out system. That’ll really get people to pay attention to pace. 

[Dancin]

1 minute ago, ASak10 said:

I’m guessing they’re using the GPS pods to time people. They’ve tried all sorts of things (time stamp machines, someone driving around checking times, etc) but the GPS probably makes it much easier to track. I like the warning/kick out system. That’ll really get people to pay attention to pace. 

Ahh that's right. I forgot they started handing those out.

[jda]

What do they do when all four in the group says that it was the 4 in front of them... then the 4 in front of them... and so on?  Fools errand, IMO.  This is why I believe that no course actually cares about pace of play and they just put those things on the bags to act like they do.  They won't actually do anything about it.  The bad reviews and getting a rep for being a bunch of AH is just not worth it.  Most people who have 4:15 also have 4:30 or 4:45.

 

If you want to penalize slow play, then the members have to set a culture and enforce it, not the club.  Fox Hill is the only place that I can think of where this happens and you can even get a few 5 hour rounds a year out there and EVERY club event and league night is still a 5+ hour round, IIRC.  Only the casual rounds were fast.  Otherwise, be the rabbits out there at sunrise.

 

Edit: impossible to set and build a culture on a public course... or at least I have never seen it.  Too many will not know, not care and not buy in - "who cares" happens too much.  At least at a club, the people are bought in.  This goes for divots, ball marks, tipping the staff and all other types of things.  If you can figure out how to set a culture with the public, then write a book and go on a speaking tour and make millions.  People laugh at them, but the closest that I think that I have seen was all of the funny signs that Saddleback used to have around about the grounds crew drinking any beer that you bring from home, making you clean the toilets if you spit your dip in them, required grounds work for not repairing divots or ball marks... and they took all of those down.

Edited May 7 by jda

[j4663535]

17 minutes ago, jda said:

What do they do when all four in the group says that it was the 4 in front of them... then the 4 in front of them... and so on?  Fools errand, IMO.  This is why I believe that no course actually cares about pace of play and they just put those things on the bags to act like they do.  They won't actually do anything about it.  The bad reviews and getting a rep for being a bunch of AH is just not worth it.  Most people who have 4:15 also have 4:30 or 4:45.

 

If you want to penalize slow play, then the members have to set a culture and enforce it, not the club.  Fox Hill is the only place that I can think of where this happens and you can even get a few 5 hour rounds a year out there and EVERY club event and league night is still a 5+ hour round, IIRC.  Only the casual rounds were fast.  Otherwise, be the rabbits out there at sunrise.

 

Edit: impossible to set and build a culture on a public course... or at least I have never seen it.  Too many will not know, not care and not buy in - "who cares" happens too much.  At least at a club, the people are bought in.  This goes for divots, ball marks, tipping the staff and all other types of things.  If you can figure out how to set a culture with the public, then write a book and go on a speaking tour and make millions.  People laugh at them, but the closest that I think that I have seen was all of the funny signs that Saddleback used to have around about the grounds crew drinking any beer that you bring from home, making you clean the toilets if you spit your dip in them, required grounds work for not repairing divots or ball marks... and they took all of those down.

 

Yes, name and shame

[pseudoswede]

21 minutes ago, jda said:

What do they do when all four in the group says that it was the 4 in front of them... then the 4 in front of them... and so on?

 

The bad reviews and getting a rep for being a bunch of AH is just not worth it.

 

If CG men's club starts weeding out the slow players, and your group still behind, then it will only be your group to blame.

 

Golf course tee sheets are so packed, I sure wouldn't mind them kicking slow/inconsiderate people off the golf course. I honestly don't think they care about bad reviews; what golf courses are concerned about is confrontation and violent behavior--something you wouldn't want a volunteer marshall to have to deal with.

Edited May 7 by pseudoswede

[jda]

11 hours ago, CDM said:

During Saturday’s Event (ISP #1) the first group out had a pace of play of 4 hours and 40 minutes. This is unacceptable and backs up the course for the whole day. As a result, that group has been penalized accordingly.

 

If they really cared, they should tell EVERYBODY what they did to penalize them.  It was likely nothing, right?  Maybe a stern talking to between a wage-earner and somebody spending their discretionary cash... so more of a suggestion?  A warning?

 

If they actually impose and enforce a penalty that hurt, then good on them.  If they did not or will not be transparent about it, then the email should just have been to tell all of the members to expect this pace next time, which is how it reads now... as a suggestion.

 

Maybe I am too jaded on all of this - if so, then I apologize.  Been golfing since I was 13 and seen all of this a million times and nary ever anything done about it.  Seen players put on the clock at college, am and pro events and it works... but disqualification is an actual penalty.

[ASak10]

They email said they were penalized so a 2 stroke penalty for them. The pace of play and penalty have always been clearly communicated and are always part of the rules for each tournament you enter. So no one can say they didn’t know. 

[pseudoswede]

That e-mail should also include the fact that riders should be dropping off the player at their ball closest to the hole with a few clubs (provided they aren't in the way), and the other player drives back to own their ball. Mobility-challenged folks excluded, of course.

 

It would also take too much manpower, but having someone stationed after holes 5, 12, and 18 to check on times. If they miss the time twice (even after 18), it's a DQ. I'm not particularly fond of the "within 16 minutes of the group ahead" because then you could have a lead group who could purposely play super fast to DQ a group behind them.

[j4663535]

27 minutes ago, pseudoswede said:

That e-mail should also include the fact that riders should be dropping off the player at their ball closest to the hole with a few clubs (provided they aren't in the way), and the other player drives back to own their ball. Mobility-challenged folks excluded, of course.

 

It would also take too much manpower, but having someone stationed after holes 5, 12, and 18 to check on times. If they miss the time twice (even after 18), it's a DQ. I'm not particularly fond of the "within 16 minutes of the group ahead" because then you could have a lead group who could purposely play super fast to DQ a group behind them.

 

I'd hope common sense would take over if the 1st group out played in 3:30 and the 2nd group finished in 4:05

[CDM]

2 hours ago, ASak10 said:

I’m guessing they’re using the GPS pods to time people. They’ve tried all sorts of things (time stamp machines, someone driving around checking times, etc) but the GPS probably makes it much easier to track. I like the warning/kick out system. That’ll really get people to pay attention to pace. 

 

2 hours ago, Dancin said:

Ahh that's right. I forgot they started handing those out.

 

Funny thing on the GPS pods.... they are loosing them per se hahahha

 

I heard Saturday they told players they are like down  20-25% of them right now as people forget they are clipped on the side of the bag and leave 🤣

 

SR/MC you use the golf genius app and scan a bar code at certain holes. Or so told.

 

It will show if you are on pace, way behind, etc.  It shows timing to other groups so can show if one group is fast vs one on pace...or way behind.

 

Not sure much can be done? 

 

I know someone that I would have been in the same flight as and always thinks "I got it figured out" shot a smooth 103 ....!  Went off as one of the first groups too So sure that did not help the rest behind him....

Edited May 7 by CDM

[Dancin]

4 hours ago, jda said:

What do they do when all four in the group says that it was the 4 in front of them... then the 4 in front of them... and so on?  Fools errand, IMO.  This is why I believe that no course actually cares about pace of play and they just put those things on the bags to act like they do.  They won't actually do anything about it.  The bad reviews and getting a rep for being a bunch of AH is just not worth it.  Most people who have 4:15 also have 4:30 or 4:45.

They will know they are lying from the gps pods. Everyone in the group gets added to the warning list in that case.

[jda]

Anybody want to bet a round that the GPS pods are not a thing in 2026?  If they already lost 3/4 of them, then this will get costly... and then when they don't actually get people to speed up since there is no real penalty, then they will not want to buy more.  Of course, if they come up with some real penalties, then this can all change.

 

If the players know the penalty and still came in at 4:40, then 2 strokes is no issue to them.  Need to find some real penalties or nothing will change.  DQ for this event and then having to sit out the next two would probably get it done.  You might even have to kick somebody off at the turn to make the point.  It will only need to happen once (maybe twice) and everybody else will get it.  Anybody willing to stand at the turn and tell mens club guys that they have to leave?

[jda]

Pulled s200 3-PW shafts.  If anybody wants them, let me know.  Free to pickup in Longmont.

 

I don't know anything about them other than the grips are garbage.  Bought some used irons and they got pulled instantly.

[Dancin]

36 minutes ago, jda said:

Anybody want to bet a round that the GPS pods are not a thing in 2026?  If they already lost 3/4 of them, then this will get costly... and then when they don't actually get people to speed up since there is no real penalty, then they will not want to buy more.  Of course, if they come up with some real penalties, then this can all change.

 

If the players know the penalty and still came in at 4:40, then 2 strokes is no issue to them.  Need to find some real penalties or nothing will change.  DQ for this event and then having to sit out the next two would probably get it done.  You might even have to kick somebody off at the turn to make the point.  It will only need to happen once (maybe twice) and everybody else will get it.  Anybody willing to stand at the turn and tell mens club guys that they have to leave?

2 strokes for missing two time checks is not nothing. 4 strokes plus losing all your skins for missing all 3 time checks is quite severe. But I agree they should be more severe and kick people out of the men's club when they have double the members that a typical tourney can support.

 

Does common ground have a bin or something next to the walkway north of 18 green to deposit the gps pods in with a big sign reminding people and maybe another one at the entrance to the parking lot? If they expect people to walk back to the pro shop with them after playing that is extremely stupid.

[TheKrushh]

8 hours ago, Dancin said:

That's a lot of work for the course to have people out there timing, but good to see it. Even 4:30 is an insanely slow pace for CG. That course should be 4:15 at the most. CG men's club has so many members they should also kick people out after two slow times. For every foursome that gets penalized, ask each person in the foursome who was most responsible. If a player gets two votes, they're on the warning list and if it happens again they're out.

Dancin is ready to put some heads on stakes next to 1 tee box next week. I love it! Golf doesn't have to be slow!

[ASak10]

5 hours ago, Dancin said:

2 strokes for missing two time checks is not nothing. 4 strokes plus losing all your skins for missing all 3 time checks is quite severe. But I agree they should be more severe and kick people out of the men's club when they have double the members that a typical tourney can support.

 

Does common ground have a bin or something next to the walkway north of 18 green to deposit the gps pods in with a big sign reminding people and maybe another one at the entrance to the parking lot? If they expect people to walk back to the pro shop with them after playing that is extremely stupid.

Not that I’ve seen but maybe by the cart barn? I agree they need an easy place to leave it and reminders. Or give people a free beer for turning it in. Then they’ll all get returned. 
 

I played my match play for CG mens club today. Holy wind, that was not fun at times. Was a good match though, I ended up winning but we only tied two holes, everything else was a win or loss. Didn’t score well but did enough towards the end to close it out on 17. 
 

Best part is we played as 3 as I had someone cancel, but we played in just over 3.5 hours. It never felt rushed or anything. Just play, move along, don’t waste time…and that was with a few provisionals and looking for some balls. It’s really not that hard to play in a reasonable time. 

[Joelness]

LOL. @jda you are definitely jaded. I think we all understand why because it's tough to tackle the problem.

 

I love all the debates going on here and much like how this came about there isn't a perfect answer. It's awesome listening to all the ideas and I can totally dig CG actually trying something like the GPS pods. The more ideas we get the better our chances are at finding the best solution with the fewest tradeoffs.

 

On CG actually trying it, this is more evidence that the CGA is actively spending money to test ideas and that is AWESOME. At least they're doing something useful with all the CGA Championship money (sorry CGA.)

 

Several years ago the CGA implemented the timing strategy after each nine which was basically the same as the current CG men's league. IMO it worked to keep pace up. However, it's again not perfect and I had a great example of that when the CGA Am was at Sonnenalp. I had a slow college kid in my group for the first two rounds. In the second round, it was slow for 6 holes waiting on every shot. All of a sudden we get to 7 tee and I don't see the group in front on the hole. I literally started running uphill on 7 and 8 and making my group pick it up. I end up going to 9 tee before my group finishes, tee off and start walking. I make the dogleg on 9 right when the group has one more to putt on the green. When we finish 9 and talk to the guy he tells me that if he hadn't seen me in the fairway we would have been penalized. That year I made the cut for the first time and did it on the number. What would have happened had I been 60 seconds later?

 

They stopped doing the strategy about two years later, I'm guessing too many people complained.

Edited May 8 by Joelness

[Joelness]

There is one very important lesson that hasn't been brought up here that ya'll need to think about. Since there isn't a perfect solution then that means we are all going to experience slow competitive rounds often, right?

 

How come none of you are talking about the real skill/weapon here? How are you going to deal with it? I need to be blunt about this: Do you know what complaining about something un-solvable sounds like to me? Mental weakness. It feels like yelling at the sun in the summer for being hot.

 

Learn how to deal with it. That's how you get the advantage.

 

P.S. This is 10x the decider when it comes to bad weather rounds.

Edited May 8 by Joelness

[pseudoswede]

As I've said previously, as long as I'm in good company on the course, I honestly don't care how long it takes nor how poorly I'm playing. I'm simply enjoying playing golf. In bad weather rounds, I'm the first one to declare lightning, pick up, and leave. 🤣

 

Golfers should also have no problems identifying the slow player(s) in the group and throwing them under the bus.

[jda]

1 hour ago, Joelness said:

LOL. @jda you are definitely jaded. I think we all understand why because it's tough to tackle the problem.

It is easy for me: play or don't.  Everybody knows when slow and faster rounds happen.  Regardless of what clubs do (mostly token efforts to shut up the regulars), it does not change.  No sense is worrying about it.

 

I have written many, many paragraphs about how most golfers are not mentally strong but all that it seems to do is make people mad so I mostly quit.  I agree with you 100%.  I think that this is why athletes from other sports often make great golfers.  Wether it be sound, movement, playing partners, or anything...

[Dancin]

1 hour ago, Joelness said:

There is one very important lesson that hasn't been brought up here that ya'll need to think about. Since there isn't a perfect solution then that means we are all going to experience slow competitive rounds often, right?

 

How come none of you are talking about the real skill/weapon here? How are you going to deal with it? I need to be blunt about this: Do you know what complaining about something un-solvable sounds like to me? Mental weakness. It feels like yelling at the sun in the summer for being hot.

 

Learn how to deal with it. That's how you get the advantage.

 

P.S. This is 10x the decider when it comes to bad weather rounds.

True but you shouldn't have to. Being able to play fast should be a required skill and tournaments should be set up to test that skill.

[pseudoswede]

Could you imagine a PGA tournament full of Brandt Snedekers? They could easily play 36 in a day!

 

I also pretty much abide by the "no practice swings" mantra.

Edited May 8 by pseudoswede

[Dancin]

95% of them can play fast. Catch them in the first tee time off on a Sunday when they are at the bottom of the field and they play in 3 hours or less. All it requires is the PGA making it clear the rules will be enforced with no exceptions and following through on it. There is no reason they can't put a shot clock on every player after the cut.

[jda]

PGA tour is tough.  The networks sell ads.  Nobody wants less air time to refund the ads that they sold - more is better and 60 minutes is used to being late for NFL games and stuff.  🙂  Shorter games work in baseball since they have 18 preset breaks regardless of game time.

 

Some of you know that I am not a slow player at all.  However, going to Spanish/Pebble/Spy in a few weeks and I don't care if those rounds are 6 hours as long as it is not our group causing it... gonna take it all in, pay attention to the holes so that I can relate when I see them on TV.