Colorado WRX 2024

[ASak10]

1 hour ago, CDM said:

Speed of play is so subjective one what causes it.  

 

There is the "core" group of players (Ie: like those in this thread) who know their game, "ready golf", even when using a cart.  I mean seriously, how hard is it to drop one player off and drive to the other ball...??   

 

Then there is the "Hey lets get together for 18 holes....once every 30-45 day players",   That is what I notice is the biggest issue we all deal with. 

 

In my personal experience the 8 min or 10min spacing does not fix the issue.

 

the courses I have been too that have a 2 min difference it happens. Public ones that is.  The 2 mins spacing will be gone within the first 4-5 holes if you send out the B group and followed by a few A group players.    

 

Private courses of course are different and most of those it seems run on 10 mins spacing but everyone at the club knows the rules hands downs.

 

Soapbox:  T

he one thing that always pops out when watching it unfold in front of you is the stupid TAP IN PUTTS.    Most of us on here will give/pick up those 1 foot tap in's unless the putt is on the side of a really severe green and everyone knows is it not "easy".  The "B" group players will mark it, line it up, read the putt, remark it, re-read it,  etc. from 12" away...!   

 

Not to point fingers.....but......I have seen @TheKrushh do that soooo many times....ugghhh,...... 🤣  Just kidding.  

 

 

Valid points here for sure.  

 

I do love what CommonGround instituted a few weeks ago...they now give every group a GPS tracker, whether riding or walking, and very clearly tell you the expected time.  I don't know what the penalty is if you fall behind but at least they are trying and at least it gets people thinking of pace.  Because I think you are right, the couple times a year players don't thikn about or care about pace of play.  They want to be out there hacking away, have some fun, and don't care how long it takes.  Which, I get it...I don't like it, but I get it, so anything that reminds them and can at least potentially hold them accountable is a step in the right direction. 

[ASak10]

5 minutes ago, jda said:

 

I don't mind it either.  Lots of people complain about the courses skimping and cutting little things here and there and if this extra revenue helps to keep golf strong and thriving, then I am all for it.  I don't particularly like to play with the hustle up crowd too much anyway - I play at a pretty good pace, but playing too fast is more annoying than playing too slow to me.  I don't really like to be under 3:15-3:30 if I am trying to play golf and not just whack-and-follow (winter stuff).

 

When I was a kid, one of the courses known for slow play stopped serving alcohol on the course and put in a larger outdoor patio with shade and good waitresses with specials after the round.  It dropped round speed by like 40 minutes.

 

Funny I almost added a comment that eliminating cart girls would probably speed up play significantly at most places.  Have people load up before the round and at the turn and it would be so much faster. 

[bobbyclampett!!]

I’ll engage in some good ol’ task avoidance and weigh in here about pace of play. To me it comes down to awareness and consideration, two things our culture struggles with as a whole. I think the main cause of slow play is 1) people in carts thinking they need to drive right up to each ball, watch the dude hit, then drive perpendicular or even BACKWARDS to the other guy’s ball, and 2) a general slowness of walking from one place to another (like from the green to the cart), and then messing around with the club and bag and scorecard before driving off. I think both of these are symptoms of the root causes of a lack of awareness and lack of consideration for other golfers. With lack of awareness, some people think golf should be slow and take five hours so why be efficient? They aren’t aware of the problem. Lack of consideration… I don’t know how to fix that, ie how to make people more considerate. Probably can’t be done. Only way is to punish lack of consideration, I guess. Someone once told me (might have been @Dancin) the most effective fix they saw was you either make it to the tenth hole in 2:10 or you lose your spot on the back. I wish golfers were more considerate of their fellow golfers because I think that’s one of the coolest parts of the game (game of honor, recognizing others are on the same quest as you and not interfering with their quest). 
 

On the back nine issue, I am totally in favor of it IF the people going off the back don’t hold up any golfers making the turn. Big IF. One of the most frustrating things in the world is when you get the first time of the day, have the whole front to yourself, no one in front of you, cruising around and then you run into someone on the back and you have to wait. Unacceptable. The people getting to go off the back should be told this very strongly by the pro shop. 
 

Probably the closest I came to dying on a golf course was in Tucson at the military course there. Had first tee time of the day, loving the morning, course to ourselves, get to ten and there is a twosome of huge, jacked military dudes in their twenties just teeing off right as we pull up. No joke it took them like ten minutes until it was clear for our tee shots. Then repeat on 11, 12, 13. We are behind them, leaning on clubs, throwing our hands up in the air. Totally frustrated. They also weren’t great so you couldn’t really tell if they were at their approach shot or something else (ie it wasn’t like tee shot, approach, green side, they were all over the place) so you couldn’t really tell if they were out of range. I will admit I got too frustrated and teed off on a hole when I wasn’t 100% sure if they were out of range. I bombed one right down the middle and I swear it flew right over one of their shoulders. They both looked back and I thought I was dead. I can’t really remember what happened after that, but they didn’t do anything and I think I tried to chill out and enjoy the weather. But man, it was not a good scene there for a minute.  Stuff like that can make me lose my mind a little, I guess. Not good. 

[jda]

...task avoidance for me too...

 

This might be a unpopular opinion, but there is not a single course on the planet that TRULY cares about pace of play.  Most of them say that they do and they put up signs and annoying messages on the cart GPS, but they don't do anything about it - just an illusion to care.  If play is slow, then they are busy and they are selling rounds, alcohol and even making money off of food.  5 hour round means revenue to every golf course.  It isn't like we are not going to NOT play or act on our outrage... and even if we do, we are lost to the market where plenty more are waiting to take our place.  If the course does not do anything other than suggest, then they don't really care.

 

Out of 10,000 times that a volunteer Marshall told all of the backed-up groups that he told a slow group to pick it up, 1 time the group might have picked up the pace and 9,999 times nothing changed.  If the pace suddenly picked up, you just got past a hard hole and it was going to anyway.

 

I have run several businesses and if we REALLY cared about something, it happened - many of you know what I am saying.  The clubs that want this, make it happen nearly all of the time with only a few outliers a year.

 

Had a few dudes this last week get mad because I rolled a ball up onto a green from about 275-280.  1 in 5 kind of shot for me and it was rolling like a putt when it was near the surface.  I did this to speed up play on a Par 5 and did not need everybody waiting on me to hit one shot.  All of these dudes probably complain about pace of play too, but they don't want to speed it up this way.  This just in: Honor, Tradition and Gentlemenly stuff is SLOOOOOOOOW.  Caddies can make stuff slow too - last week we had caddies at Black Desert with 20+ caps picking their brains about where to land balls on approach that they would need a small bucket to execute correctly just once.

Edited May 1 by jda

[ASak10]

I think the only place I've really seen something done was at Whistling Straits, which has the longest rounds ever anyway. We saw a group actually get picked up in a cart and driven up a hole or two (walking only out there).  They must have been SO far behind that even Whistling was like ok, that's enough, move them up.   

[CDM]

1 hour ago, jda said:

...task avoidance for me too...

 

This might be a unpopular opinion, but there is not a single course on the planet that TRULY cares about pace of play.  Most of them say that they do and they put up signs and annoying messages on the cart GPS, but they don't do anything about it - just an illusion to care.  If play is slow, then they are busy and they are selling rounds, alcohol and even making money off of food.  5 hour round means revenue to every golf course.  It isn't like we are not going to play or act on our outrage... and even if we do, we are lost to the market where plenty more are waiting to take our place.  If the course does not do anything other than suggest, then they don't really care.

 

Out of 10,000 times that a volunteer Marshall told all of the backed-up groups that he told a slow group to pick it up, 1 time the group might have picked up the pace and 9,999 times nothing changed.  If the pace suddenly picked up, you just got past a hard hole and it was going to anyway.

 

I have run several businesses and if we REALLY cared about something, it happened - many of you know what I am saying.  The clubs that want this, make it happen nearly all of the time with only a few outliers a year.

 

Had a few dudes this last week get mad because I rolled a ball up onto a green from about 275-280.  1 in 5 kind of shot for me and it was rolling like a putt when it was near the surface.  I did this to speed up play on a Par 5 and did not need everybody waiting on me to hit one shot.  All of these dudes probably complain about pace of play too, but they don't want to speed it up this way.  This just in: Honor, Tradition and Gentlemenly stuff is SLOOOOOOOOW.  Caddies can make stuff slow too - last week we had caddies at Black Desert with 20+ caps picking their brains about where to land balls on approach that they would need a small bucket to execute correctly just once.

 

All valid.   

 

Funny thing on the caddies, I have found with double bag it is always slower which is somewhat to be expected yet they all want to doulbe bag for the extra money.  Pinehurst No2 and No4 we had double bags /  two caddies and it was slower for sure. Good caddies but having to work over each shot with each person takes time. 

 

On  "not a single course out there that cares about slow play" they do exist.  Just a majority of them I know are private.  A club I play they have a standing policy on pace of play and they 110% enforce it.  The last two years at the start of the year they put out an email on etiquette and top of the list is slow play.  Members who have been warned to many times, ask to move spots or have been asked to leave the course...and it has happened.  They will not be given the better tee times going forward.  *have to work your way back into the Pro's good graces by proofing it.

 

To say it ruffled some feathers is an understament as there are a number older members. Which I guess could be viewed as "age discrimation" as few them put it.   I have only seen it twice in 4 years playing there, and one time the two members (had there own team event going) decided to....wells lets call it....have a "discussion" with the GM abd HEad pro.  They were told "Thank you but no thank you" two weeks later.  It is a thin line I guess if you do have older members. 

 

I normally plau solo when at the club (odd but never crazy full) and the wife does not play.   I call for a tee time and they me go out first all the time.  The last few times have told me I have SLOW it down LOL,    I catch the mainteance crews 90% of the time somewhere around 15-16 it seems.   In a cart, solo, single ball I whip aorund in a little over 2 hours.  Not huge hitter but dont spray the ball all over either.  I am a "ploder" per se.  Poke it out in the fariway, hit approach, may have to have to chip, putt and go.  

 

I am not @Dancin fast but he and I  have played a ton of times and I would say my standard pace is 85% of him, but those who have played with him call him "the energizer bunny of golf"  😁

[Dancin]

Walnut Creek  and Legacy Ridge used to be really good about making people pick up and move if they are a hole behind. They still have the policy, but it's not enforced as much as in the past. They do however have 10 minute tee time gaps so it is usually not an issue.

[bobbyclampett!!]

Old guys certainly can walk slower, but they can still keep up the pace. I've seen it in Scotland. Four dudes in their seventies, all with push carts, just constantly marching up the fairway. You can't stay far enough in front of them. My buddy says it's like the march of the zombies coming up behind you. Although I will say they take it a bit too far, IMO. Like they are out there to prove how fast they can play and prove how slow the dumb American tourists are. I'm pretty sure they are not taking practice swings or assessing anything, hardly looking at the target. Just walk up to their ball and theyr'e hitting it within like five seconds, all at the same time as each other. Bit much. Almost like they are playing polo. You can still assess a shot and take a little practice swing and still get around plenty fast.

[j4663535]

Talking about slow play, we played Todd Creek yesterday. They must have had an club event that ended at 2pm. We teed off at 2:30pm, so 3 groups in front of us. We were playing as a 3some with another 3some right in front of us.  By the 3rd hole we were waiting on every hole.

 

There was a 4some with 2 older couples in front of the other 3some. By the time we got to 8s tee we could see 9 was wide open in front of them. Luckily they stopped after 9, until we got to 10 and that other 3some was sitting there waiting behind another 4some of middle aged guys. 

 

We skipped 10 and 11 as they were on 10s green. We played the next 7 holes in a little over an hour. We stopped and talked to the cart return guy to confirm we were good playing 10 and 11. So we did, kinda messed around a bit on 11, cleaned some clubs, then drove back. The slow group hadn't reached 18s green yet. 

 

The biggest issue was it was cart path only. Which was really dumb, because there was nothing on the course to need that to be in place. 

[Dancin]

If anyone is in the area, the Women's US Open Qualifier is still in progress at Walnut Creek. Mostly amateurs and no names, but one lpga player Moriya Jutanagarn is tied for 3rd through 9 holes in the second round. I played with one of the amateurs on Sunday afternoon. They have them stretched out to just under 6700 yards.

[j4663535]

2 minutes ago, Dancin said:

If anyone is in the area, the Women's US Open Qualifier is still in progress at Walnut Creek. Mostly amateurs and no names, but one lpga player Moriya Jutanagarn is tied for 3rd through 9 holes in the second round. I played with one of the amateurs on Sunday afternoon. They have them stretched out to just under 6700 yards.

So that's what was going on today. I saw they had the non-windsock pins in. They only do that during high end events like that.

[Dancin]

36 holes all today. https://www.golfgenius.com/pages/4647335

 

There are some other lpga pros in it but I don't recognize the names.

[Dancin]

@Joelness  How come I don't see you signed up for the men's us open qualifier next Tuesday at walnut?

 

Lindstrom can do the cga four ball and the us open qualifier right after it...  😃

[Joelness]

23 hours ago, CDM said:

I am not @Dancin fast but he and I  have played a ton of times and I would say my standard pace is 85% of him, but those who have played with him call him "the energizer bunny of golf"  😁

 

Nobody is faster than the energizer bunny. The first time I played with him I got to my ball on the green, marked it and as soon as I lifted it I saw his rolling by. It scared the s*** out of me, lol

 

11 hours ago, bobbyclampett!! said:

Old guys certainly can walk slower, but they can still keep up the pace. I've seen it in Scotland. Four dudes in their seventies, all with push carts, just constantly marching up the fairway. You can't stay far enough in front of them. My buddy says it's like the march of the zombies coming up behind you. Although I will say they take it a bit too far, IMO. Like they are out there to prove how fast they can play and prove how slow the dumb American tourists are. I'm pretty sure they are not taking practice swings or assessing anything, hardly looking at the target. Just walk up to their ball and theyr'e hitting it within like five seconds, all at the same time as each other. Bit much. Almost like they are playing polo. You can still assess a shot and take a little practice swing and still get around plenty fast.

 

This can be so true. I was at raccoon creek once, a regular walks in and the pro asks "how did you play?" and the response was "great, I played in 2h45m!" I'm thinking, I don't think that's what he asked you. That was the eye opener for me that these people don't care what they shoot, they just want it over with as quickly as possible.

[Joelness]

1 hour ago, Dancin said:

If anyone is in the area, the Women's US Open Qualifier is still in progress at Walnut Creek. Mostly amateurs and no names, but one lpga player Moriya Jutanagarn is tied for 3rd through 9 holes in the second round. I played with one of the amateurs on Sunday afternoon. They have them stretched out to just under 6700 yards.

 

I actually played Walnut yesterday with CU's #1, Morgan Miller. Super weird that I don't see her on the leaderboard at all as she was definitely preparing for today. After walking three rounds with the D2 golfers last week in Hawaii I can say that she would have stomped on all of them. It was awesome seeing the golf course packed with great female players. Moriya Jutanagarn is crazy good and I think has a win on the LPGA.

 

P.S. I tried to gamble with Morgan but she wasn't up for it since it was a practice round. I would have donated to her college fund with my solid 37-38, lol.

 

59 minutes ago, Dancin said:

@Joelness  How come I don't see you signed up for the men's us open qualifier next Tuesday at walnut?

 

Lindstrom can do the cga four ball and the us open qualifier right after it...  😃

 

Because I hate playing that qualifier. You really need to know those greens to make it through that one. I'm playing it at Broadlands as I know it 10x better. I also have good memories with a solid 66 last time I played it.

Edited May 1 by Joelness

[Joelness]

BTW - Freakin brutal to make those girls walk 36 at Walnut in one day. 

[Dancin]

9 minutes ago, Joelness said:

BTW - Freakin brutal to make those girls walk 36 at Walnut in one day. 

Most aren't even going to finish today and will be playing tomorrow morning. I don't think Morgan even signed up. Very strange to pass up a qualifier right down the road from you. You'd think she would want to get tournament reps in.

21 minutes ago, Joelness said:

Because I hate playing that qualifier. You really need to know those greens to make it through that one. I'm playing it at Broadlands as I know it 10x better. I also have good memories with a solid 66 last time I played it.

Ha. Broadlands is definitely easier.

[Joelness]

5 minutes ago, Dancin said:

Most aren't even going to finish today and will be playing tomorrow morning. I don't think Morgan even signed up. Very strange to pass up a qualifier right down the road from you. You'd think she would want to get tournament reps in.

 

This is what I mean, she was 100% there for a practice round yesterday. Her dad came, she was hitting chip shots from all over the place to the dots, even playing from the tees they were playing from today as they knew that information as well.

 

I wonder if there was something worse, like a family emergency or something. Odd to not even see her as an NS or WD either.

 

EDIT: There is the possibility that she thought she signed up for it and didn't? I mean, she is 20

Edited May 1 by Joelness

[j4663535]

35 minutes ago, Joelness said:

 

This is what I mean, she was 100% there for a practice round yesterday. Her dad came, she was hitting chip shots from all over the place to the dots, even playing from the tees they were playing from today as they knew that information as well.

 

I wonder if there was something worse, like a family emergency or something. Odd to not even see her as an NS or WD either.

 

EDIT: There is the possibility that she thought she signed up for it and didn't? I mean, she is 20

What tees do they play from there?

[Joelness]

47 minutes ago, j4663535 said:

What tees do they play from there?

 

It was a mix of 2's and 3's. Primarily 2's

[Dancin]

1 hour ago, Joelness said:

EDIT: There is the possibility that she thought she signed up for it and didn't? I mean, she is 20

That would not surprise me at all. It's also possible she signed up late and was wait listed and was hoping to get in.

 

The amateur I played with was from out of town and her mom and friend were with her just riding along. She played the 3 tees all the way around (even though she should have known what tees were going to be played) and spent in between every shot on her phone. Not exactly dedicated.

[Joelness]

What's our over under for percentage of girls that show up tomorrow to complete their round knowing they won't make it?

 

Looks like we already have ~28 DNF's

Edited May 1 by Joelness

[bobbyclampett!!]

US Open qualifier at Collindale yesterday ate people up. I believe even qualified. One of those times the weather played a huge factor. Was pretty calm until about 9:30 and then the wind started blowing HARD. The guys who went off early had a huge advantage. My buddy withdrew after 9 with a solid 45 teeing off at 10am. Hot take: qualifiers should be shotgun starts???

[pseudoswede]

26 minutes ago, bobbyclampett!! said:

Hot take: qualifiers should be shotgun starts???

 

It's all about luck, really. In another year, the winds could've been howling until 10am, then calmed down the rest of the day. If the PGA started doing shotgun starts, I could see it happening, though.

[jda]

This morning looks very calm and nice.  If any of those women are within a few strokes, I hope that they go back and see if they can get hot, shoot at every pin and put an aggressive roll on every putt.  Sometimes having a target can help.  However, I am sure that they are worn out.

 

Even shotgun starts are not fair.  Somewhere out there, somebody played the hardest holes with no wind, for example.  Somebody got to walk the hill early in the round when they were fresh and not as their last hole after being beaten up all day as the 36th hole.  No sports are fair.  Overcoming is one of the main separators between the haves and have nots.  Just in our meaningless existence, how many of us have indexes that represent ANY course under ANY weather condition?

[ASak10]

Yeah that wind yesterday was brutal, we played right in the heart of it at CO National. So I'm still not sure what to make of the course given we were playing with some insane wind gusts.  On the range balls would basically stop in the air and start coming back towards you.  Greens seemed pretty slow and fuzzy, not sure if it was because of the winds or because it's still early in the year. Not in bad shape, just seemed slow.  Pace was great!  We got done in just over 4 hours and that was with waiting a little towards the end too.  So I wouldn't rush to play it again, but I think I will play it again this year, hopefully without crazy winds so I can get a better feel for the course.   

[stoneydukes]

1 hour ago, ASak10 said:

Yeah that wind yesterday was brutal, we played right in the heart of it at CO National. So I'm still not sure what to make of the course given we were playing with some insane wind gusts.  On the range balls would basically stop in the air and start coming back towards you.  Greens seemed pretty slow and fuzzy, not sure if it was because of the winds or because it's still early in the year. Not in bad shape, just seemed slow.  Pace was great!  We got done in just over 4 hours and that was with waiting a little towards the end too.  So I wouldn't rush to play it again, but I think I will play it again this year, hopefully without crazy winds so I can get a better feel for the course.   

I should probably give it another shot. Live in a neighborhood a couple miles away. Probably try for a weekday round. 

 

[ASak10]

Just now, stoneydukes said:

I should probably give it another shot. Live in a neighborhood a couple miles away. Probably try for a weekday round. 

 

 

Yeah I mean my general thoughts were decent course, some great views, but really seemed to be so similar to so many of the suburban neighborhood type courses...is it really that much different than Indian Peaks or Buffalo Run or any of those types of courses?  I didn't think so. But like I said, the wind was miserable and it would warrant another play, but I wouldn't go out of my way.  

[pseudoswede]

Going to sneak out to Family Sports and hit a medium bucket this evening.

[CDM]

5 hours ago, jda said:

  Just in our meaningless existence, how many of us have indexes that represent ANY course under ANY weather condition?

 

My 18.6 index carries pretty good, even when traveling with weather.   😁