Bounce is Your Friend on Partial Wedge Shots and Engaging the Turf Prior to the Ball is a Good Thing When Hitting Them

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, cav5 said:

So you can use the bounce from 20 yards to not chunk, but the technology fails at 120?

 

Your boy (or you) didn't even use it in the video he/you posted:

 

 

1 minute ago, Sean124 said:

Has anyone ever seen R2L and cav5 in the same room together?

 

They may be different people. But they might not be.

[kiwigolf72]

I totally get that a post on the instruction and academy forum might anger so called experts, because the OP ideas are not the norm or don't match the "experts" beliefs or way of thinking and might go against the grain of what people think.

But if a player is having success playing a shot a certain way, then good for them.

Remember feel isn't real and people might think they are doing something when they are actually not, but don't rubbish them because they have an opinion.

The same voice is constantly berating people over their views.

Edited January 14 by kiwigolf72

[GolfTurkey]

PGA Tour impact compilation, lots of wedge shots included:

 

 

[bmbsawy]

This might be the most ridiculous topic on the site- stop feeling the trolls so this stays off the “popular posts” 

 

[bmbsawy]

49 minutes ago, cav5 said:

 

No one is saying you need to use bounce man. Pros are good. Rory has control of the loft he can do whatever he pleases. I just think he'd be better off using it

 

Okay again just talking to talk. 140 is full. Too much spin so its not a playable shot if you can and are actually trying to break par each day. So yes, I knock the wedge open a little, enter turf a smidge before impact, play the whole system a bit further back on the arc and play a low small draw about 120. Mind blowing. I don't need to worry about catching it too high on the face and it falling out of the air.

That has to be the highest risk way to take yardage off a shot

 

youre suggesting intentionally chunking the shot instead of flighting with delivered loft or speed? You’re not gonna break par with that approach too often-

 

striking ball first with a REASONABLE delivery gives a bit of a margin of error either side to get a reasonable result- if you intentionally enter the ground early your margin of error is laying the sod over the ball- this doesn’t need scientific discussion lol

[GolfTurkey]

20 minutes ago, kiwigolf72 said:

I totally get that a post on the instruction and academy forum might anger so called experts, because the OP ideas are not the norm or don't match the "experts" beliefs or way of thinking and might go against the grain of what people think.

But if a player is having success playing a shot a certain way, then good for them.

Remember feel isn't real and people might think they are doing something when they are actually not, but don't rubbish them because they have an opinion.

The same voice is constantly berating people over their views.

 

I think people have mentioned to you before that people expressing their feels as reality when they are anything but is not helpful and potentially quite harmful.

 

Imagine a hypothetical really good right-handed player whose natural shot when they don't think about anything is a big sling draw because they hit too far from the inside. To neutralize their path and hit a consistent little push draw, this person has to FEEL like they swing way left. No problem, right?

 

Now imagine that this person posts on the instruction forum and boldly proclaims that the key to hitting a tight push draw is FACTUALLY to swing way left...big problem. Firstly it's nonsense and secondly what would this advice do for the majority of golfers who fight a slice?

Edited January 14 by GolfTurkey

[MonteScheinblum]

11 minutes ago, kiwigolf72 said:

I totally get that a post on the instruction and academy forum might anger so called experts, because the OP ideas are not the norm or don't match the "experts" beliefs or way of thinking and might go against the grain of what people think.

But if a player is having success playing a shot a certain way, then good for them.

Remember feel isn't real and people might think they are doing something when they are actually not, but don't rubbish them because they have an opinion.

The same voice is constantly berating people over their views.

Again, the point that’s being made is exactly what you said.  You can feel what ever you want, but when you promote your feel as what actually happens and everyone should do that, there is a problem. 
 

 

[kiwigolf72]

57 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I think people have mentioned to you before that people expressing their feels as reality when they are anything but is not helpful and potentially quite harmful.

 

Imagine a hypothetical really good right-handed player whose natural shot when they don't think about anything is a big sling draw because they hit too far from the inside. To neutralize their path and hit a consistent little push draw, this person has to FEEL like they swing way left. No problem, right?

 

Now imagine that this person posts on the instruction forum and boldly proclaims that the key to hitting a tight push draw is FACTUALLY to swing way left...big problem. Firstly it's nonsense and secondly what would this advice do for the majority of golfers who fight a slice?

Agree, but it's pretty obvious the OP is convinced he is doing what he describes, even to the point that he has pictures with lines on it.

I just don't agree with the constant negative responses whenever someone posts something that people might not agree with, whether it's right or wrong.

By all means express your opinion but get over it and move on if you don't like what people are saying.

In this instance no matter what anyone says the OP isn't going to suddenly start to think like you just because you have told him 9 times he's wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15 by kiwigolf72

[GolfTurkey]

16 minutes ago, kiwigolf72 said:

By all means express your opinion but get over it and move on if you don't like what people are saying.

In this instance no matter what anyone says the OP isn't going to suddenly start to think like you just because you have told him 9 times he's wrong.

 

 

Oh there's no changing some peoples' opinions on here, but I think it's important that people counter misinformation otherwise innocent bystanders see implicit agreement.

 

If someone claims that they hit behind the ball on their 120 yard pitches and that they're a +2 then they are either mistaken about it or a troll / sockpuppet account.

 

If I create a "GolfEagle" account, say that I'm a +6 and that the key to my 350 yard driving average is the run I get because I hit them with topspin, should everyone nod along and be like:

 

 

or should the response be:

 

[MonteScheinblum]

14 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

Oh there's no changing some peoples' opinions on here, but I think it's important that people counter misinformation otherwise innocent bystanders see implicit agreement.

 

If someone claims that they hit behind the ball on their 120 yard pitches and that they're a +2 then they are either mistaken about it or a troll / sockpuppet account.

 

If I create a "GolfEagle" account, say that I'm a +6 and that the key to my 350 yard driving average is the run I get because I hit them with topspin, should everyone nod along and be like:

 

 

or should the response be:

 

I’m reminded of a situation at the golf show in 1993.

 

i was the defending world long drive champion.  I was looking for a staff deal as I was going to be playing several Nike (Kornferry) events.

 

Someone in the Calloway booth rudely asked me to leave as (paraphrase), “We here do not want to even entertain conversing with disreputable liars.  The real world champion was hear already.  He actually looks the part, no one would believe a person at your size could win that.”

 

I asked how he knew that guy was real and I wasn’t.  I was presented with a business card that said 1992 national and world  long drive champion, Nike Tour player and Master PGA professional.  I saw the name.  He had qualified once and lost in the first round.  As far as Nike Tour player, he competed in 1 Monday qualifier and shot over 80.  He was not even in the pga program at the time, but he was 6-5 280 pounds of muscle.

 

He was handing out those business cards at every booth looking for free swag and got way more than I did…..lol.

Edited January 15 by MonteScheinblum

[cav5]

.

 

Edited January 15 by cav5

[Shilgy]

7 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Edited January 15 by Shilgy

[cav5]

Really don’t care what the pros are doing. Doesnt mean it’s the best way. Why would they even try this way if their instructors won’t even consider the idea. I’m the grifter tho lol. 
 

Would love to know the facts about why my way would be worse. My GEaRs are runninggggg

[cav5]

1 hour ago, bmbsawy said:

That has to be the highest risk way to take yardage off a shot

 

youre suggesting intentionally chunking the shot instead of flighting with delivered loft or speed? You’re not gonna break par with that approach too often-

 

striking ball first with a REASONABLE delivery gives a bit of a margin of error either side to get a reasonable result- if you intentionally enter the ground early your margin of error is laying the sod over the ball- this doesn’t need scientific discussion lol

Okay so you admit you don’t know how bounce works? The point of it’s correct application is it won’t dig. Literally what science are you using? 

Edited January 15 by cav5

[kiwigolf72]

2 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Really don’t care what the pros are doing. Doesnt mean it’s the best way. Why would they even try this way if their instructors won’t even consider the idea. I’m the grifter tho lol. 
 

Would love to know the facts about why my way would be worse. My GEaRs are runninggggg

grifter? someone who swindles people out of money through fraud? 

[bmbsawy]

3 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Okay so you admit you don’t know how bounce works? The point of it’s correct application is it won’t dig. Literally what science are you using? 

I don’t think the application of bounce changes whether you hit ball first or ground first, I DO think you introduce more variables when you don’t strike ball first.

 

I also don’t think you can break par using the method you’re suggesting, I dont even have the words to describe what a ridiculous idea it is to take yardage off a shot by intentionally hitting it fat. How can you seriously suggest that is the approach that others should be pursuing lol

[cav5]

16 hours ago, bmbsawy said:

I don’t think the application of bounce changes whether you hit ball first or ground first, I DO think you introduce more variables when you don’t strike ball first.

 

I also don’t think you can break par using the method you’re suggesting, I dont even have the words to describe what a ridiculous idea it is to take yardage off a shot by intentionally hitting it fat. How can you seriously suggest that is the approach that others should be pursuing lol

Is -8 enough. It’s not fat if you use bounce dude. You gotta get that through your head. Own the technique then you get margin of error without having to have your low point perfectly precise. 

 

 

 

Edited January 15 by cav5

[cav5]

Man I'm a sandbagger too. All that work with R2L and went to +3. I need to update 😃

[Shilgy]

29 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Okay so you admit you don’t know how bounce works? The point of it’s correct application is it won’t dig. Literally what science are you using? 

Out of curiosity….i recall in an earlier post you mentioned 120-140 50° wedge shots using the bounce.  Do you have any launch numbers?  Wondering about the launch angle you achieve.

[cav5]

18 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Out of curiosity….i recall in an earlier post you mentioned 120-140 50° wedge shots using the bounce.  Do you have any launch numbers?  Wondering about the launch angle you achieve.

140 is a full swing BALL FIRST which is spinning back to much. I'll play that from the rough but my iron style is very conservative and I just don't like going hard besides driver. More often than not 140 from fairway I'm hitting a 9 iron BALL FIRST BABY. 

 

I don't but will be in FL end of month so possiblby then. Ball just comes out lower and slower and looks like it never has an apex. Looks like this ( if it was sideways. Outside of that though hitting ball first PW or 49/50

 

Also, I'm 5'8 190 low teens BF, gym 6 days a week if that makes yardages any more believable lol

Edited January 15 by cav5

[Shilgy]

5 minutes ago, cav5 said:

 140 is a full swing which is spinning back to much. I'll play that from the rough but my iron style is very conservative and I just don't like going hard besides driver. More often than not 140 from fairway I'm hitting a 9 iron BALL FIRST BABY. 

 

I don't but will be in FL end of month so possiblby then. Ball just comes out lower and slower and looks like it never has an apex. Looks like this ( if it was sideways. Outside of that though hitting ball first PW.

 

Also, I'm 5'8 190 low teens BF, gym 6 days a week if that makes yardages any more believable lol

Yardages are low for guys on wrx so they’re really believable.  🤣

 

Just don’t believe you’re using the commonly accepted definition of “using the bounce” to hit 50° 140….ever.  
 

I’m older….we used to call a shot where we just skimmed the grass rather than taking a divot as “picking it clean”.  You and your friend seem to call that using the bounce.

[cav5]

 

12 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Yardages are low for guys on wrx so they’re really believable.  🤣

 

Just don’t believe you’re using the commonly accepted definition of “using the bounce” to hit 50° 140….ever.  
 

I’m older….we used to call a shot where we just skimmed the grass rather than taking a divot as “picking it clean”.  You and your friend seem to call that using the bounce.

 

repost.

 

Edited January 15 by cav5

[cav5]

This is a decent video and he hits closer to it than I do, but for the sake of conversation I haven't seen anyone really talk about getting into it earlier so I don't think really anyones considered it much. You'll know when the divot starts to collapse instead of fold. Its like skim boarding against the wake. You lean on the tail so the nose won't dive. You'll have to find your own "middle" with amount of bounce, steepness, turf entrance to ball to LP relationship. Fun and simple to figure out

 

 

Edited January 15 by cav5

[cav5]

12 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Yardages are low for guys on wrx so they’re really believable.  🤣

 

Just don’t believe you’re using the commonly accepted definition of “using the bounce” to hit 50° 140….ever.  
 

I’m older….we used to call a shot where we just skimmed the grass rather than taking a divot as “picking it clean”.  You and your friend seem to call that using the bounce.

Sorry I edited before you replied. 140 is ball first. Its very close to what you mean by skimming but if you fully engage bounce and get the math right you don't have to manage you attack angle so diligently so you can actually get into the turf and be aggressive without worry. You actually put the math in you favor so actually can F*#& up a little.

[cav5]

Also a lot of these modern wedges lower the leading edge as you open it so you likely will need mess around with some other stuff. I wish vokey made a 60F. R2L just took it to the extreme. He plays a bag full of Miuras and is your normal junkey and just went full down this path and I assure you seeing that alien wedge with the leading edge I thought he was gonna kill someone on the practice green. Then he started showing me and I was one killing people lol

Edited January 15 by cav5

[Shilgy]

29 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Sorry I edited before you replied. 140 is ball first. Its very close to what you mean by skimming but if you fully engage bounce and get the math right you don't have to manage you attack angle so diligently so you can actually get into the turf and be aggressive without worry. You actually put the math in you favor so actually can F*#& up a little.

Here’s why I asked….you say you can use the bounce on a full shot.  Now, I realize you and your buddy are special but typically a well hit iron the launch angle will be about half of the loft.  So a 50° wedge will be launched at about 25°.  I just trying to figure out how with that shaft lean you truly engage the bounce.  Or, of course, to put it another way if you hit it without shaft lean  and launch at enough of an angle to engage the bounce you can hit it far at all.

[Shilgy]

32 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Also a lot of these modern wedges lower the leading edge as you open it so you likely will need mess around with some other stuff. I wish vokey made a 60F. R2L just took it to the extreme. He plays a bag full of Miuras and is your normal junkey and just went full down this path and I assure you seeing that alien wedge with the leading edge I thought he was gonna kill someone on the practice green. Then he started showing me and I was one killing people lol

That truly is amazing.  I’ve never seen a wedge lower the leading edge when you open it. If that is the case how are you engaging the sole to use the bounce?

[PedronNiall]

2 hours ago, cav5 said:

Okay so you admit you don’t know how bounce works? The point of it’s correct application is it won’t dig. Literally what science are you using? 

I mean, your friend R2L doesn't understand enough about bounce to know that he didn't have 40 or 50 degrees of bounce on his Alien Wedge, but he's all over the forums in other's threads and making threads of his own claiming that and that his way is the only way. You follow his teachings and defend him to no end yet he doesn't have a correct understanding of his own equipment or of what's actually happening in the golf swing. He denies and is unable to comprehend the verifiable physics of the swing. He's also very cutely failed to the numerous replies quoting his "40 degrees of bounce" wedge and calling him out on that foolishness.

 

Literally what science is your supposed instructor using? Literally what science are you gobbling up unquestioningly? Bro science? That I'd believe.

[cav5]

13 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

I mean, your friend R2L doesn't understand enough about bounce to know that he didn't have 40 or 50 degrees of bounce on his Alien Wedge, but he's all over the forums in other's threads and making threads of his own claiming that and that his way is the only way. You follow his teachings and defend him to no end yet he doesn't have a correct understanding of his own equipment or of what's actually happening in the golf swing. He denies and is unable to comprehend the verifiable physics of the swing. He's also very cutely failed to the numerous replies quoting his "40 degrees of bounce" wedge and calling him out on that foolishness.

 

Literally what science is your supposed instructor using? Literally what science are you gobbling up unquestioningly? Bro science? That I'd believe.

If you open his wedge there is 40* of bounce. Buy one and measure if you must. He posted a pic of it maybe you missed it. Or do you believe vokey Ls are just 4* of bounce and in which position?

 

It also helps him engage as early as he wants as the face begins to close and bounce comes off. He can also open the face in larger and smaller amounts because he has enough at square and open

 

it’s not the only way. Most ppl won’t change but there are some who are interested. I’ve gotten better results and think others can too. I’m not some great player but can compete at a state open level. I used leading edge ball first and managed attack with my skill for years. 

 

[cav5]

55 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Here’s why I asked….you say you can use the bounce on a full shot.  Now, I realize you and your buddy are special but typically a well hit iron the launch angle will be about half of the loft.  So a 50° wedge will be launched at about 25°.  I just trying to figure out how with that shaft lean you truly engage the bounce.  Or, of course, to put it another way if you hit it without shaft lean  and launch at enough of an angle to engage the bounce you can hit it far at all.

Sorry if not clear. Full shot is always ball first. As you open and remove lean you will lower the flight. Im

not hitting 140 yard 50s with bounce lol