Bounce is Your Friend on Partial Wedge Shots and Engaging the Turf Prior to the Ball is a Good Thing When Hitting Them

[Shilgy]

5 minutes ago, JayMas said:

How could you lower ball flight by opening the face and losing shaft lean which delofts the club, unless you blade it?

Ah yes…the eternal question…..but never as yet answered.🤔

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, JayMas said:

How could you lower ball flight by opening the face and losing shaft lean which delofts the club, unless you blade it?

 

The same way you can swing faster by letting gravity drop the club until you try to slam on the brakes instead of just trying to add as much speed as long as possible.

[Shilgy]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

The same way you can swing faster by letting gravity drop the club until you try to slam on the brakes instead of just trying to add as much speed as long as possible.

That’s for the tip!  Always good to learn the real truth of the swing.🤣 /s

[MonteScheinblum]

I get the impression this is all a plan for a Twilight Zone reboot.

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I get the impression this is all a plan for a Twilight Zone reboot.

 

[Pepperturbo]

20 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Yes, but that’s completely different than what I posted. Yours is 2° bounce and when opened the leading edge is nearly on the ground….because it has very little bounce. 
 

The post I replied to said a wedge with substantial bounce the leading edge GOT LOWER when opened.  Wrap your head around that! 🤔

That's not possible

[Shilgy]

5 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

That's not possible

And yet…the OP of this thread and his buddy have claimed that very thing.

The rest of us are glad you agree,🤩

[Deadaimz]

 

[cav5]

Why would BH contact and flight change based on bounce if he’s hitting ball first?

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2PspOTOuF2/?igsh=Y2N5cWNpYXd1em9m

 

 

[cav5]

On 1/16/2024 at 6:40 PM, Shilgy said:

And yet…the OP of this thread and his buddy have claimed that very thing.

The rest of us are glad you agree,🤩

[cav5]

On 1/15/2024 at 5:01 PM, Shilgy said:

Yes, but that’s completely different than what I posted. Yours is 2° bounce and when opened the leading edge is nearly on the ground….because it has very little bounce. 
 

The post I replied to said a wedge with substantial bounce the leading edge GOT LOWER when opened.  Wrap your head around that! 🤔

 

[Shilgy]

Dude…it does not say it lowers when you open it.  But it will sit lower than others typically do.  Because they are low bounce wedges.

 

AND what you just posted says there are both LOW BOUNCE wedges.  Not the high bounce you referred to earlier.

 

Please either quit or show us a wedge where the leading edge actually LOWERS when opened.

 

We”ll all be waiting.  As @Pepperturbo mentioned it ain’t happening.

 

For that matter we are also wondering how you lean the handle back and expose the bounce to hit the ball lower.  Your other claim.

[cav5]

15 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Dude…it does not say it lowers when you open it.  But it will sit lower than others typically do.  Because they are low bounce wedges.

 

AND what you just posted says there are both LOW BOUNCE wedges.  Not the high bounce you referred to earlier.

 

Please either quit or show us a wedge where the leading edge actually LOWERS when opened.

 

We”ll all be waiting.  As @Pepperturbo mentioned it ain’t happening.

 

For that matter we are also wondering how you lean the handle back and expose the bounce to hit the ball lower.  Your other claim.

 

Dude just argue semantics if you want. Billy lowers launch versus his T grind on his stock shot.

 

I don't care what you do, open the face, lean it back and change how high you impact the ball and face. Please feel free to over complicate as much as you'd like.

 

If you couldn't tell yes I prefer higher bounce so I can lift the leading edge. I didn't say a high bounce wedge will lower the leading edge. If I did apologies. If you want to do this correctly you just need enough bounce in whatever playing position you like to hit the shot. Its not a 1 to 1 thing based on where you engage the sole and how much is grinded off on that part compared to leading edge. Figure it out yourself. I think most people can understand that.

Edited January 18 by cav5

[cav5]

Here is another example if you'd like. When R2L gets short sided lets say on a donald ross where the green is 6 feet above him and a tight lie.

 

Most likely he's taking his most lofted club opening it and getting in a few inches before impact. He's taking a pretty "big" swing. One atleast big and slow enough for him to have the shaft untorqued and rotating around clubhead COG. He'll error on the side of too much swing plus a longer deeper surf but his bounce can handle it.

 

Most can't accept this I think because they either have good swings but are trying to bring a torqued shaft into this shot or they are twisting and not rotating the shaft around the COG of the clubhead.

 

Good luck!

[ShowMe]

I bounced my wedge off the cart path after blading one over the green for the thousandth time.  It bounced pretty high in the air.

[cav5]

Anyone interested in trying the feel I like to use too free that up and remove the torque is imagine I'm hitting a high arching draw with driver but with the ball taking off fractionally right to where my logical mind would expect.

[swh0507]

39 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Here is another example if you'd like. When R2L gets short sided lets say on a donald ross where the green is 6 feet above him and a tight lie.

 

Most likely he's taking his most lofted club opening it and getting in a few inches before impact. He's taking a pretty "big" swing. One atleast big and slow enough for him to have the shaft untorqued and rotating around clubhead COG. He'll error on the side of too much swing plus a longer deeper surf but his bounce can handle it.

 

Most can't accept this I think because they either have good swings but are trying to bring a torqued shaft into this shot or they are twisting and not rotating the shaft around the COG of the clubhead.

 

Good luck!

[cav5]

Just try to beat up this part of the face like BH mentioned. 
 

[cav5]

3 minutes ago, swh0507 said:

LOL just physics! You'll be screwed if you torque the shaft on shots like this. You won't have enough time to compensate. You can on a full swing though.

[getitdaily]

54 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Here is another example if you'd like. When R2L gets short sided lets say on a donald ross where the green is 6 feet above him and a tight lie.

 

Most likely he's taking his most lofted club opening it and getting in a few inches before impact. He's taking a pretty "big" swing. One atleast big and slow enough for him to have the shaft untorqued and rotating around clubhead COG. He'll error on the side of too much swing plus a longer deeper surf but his bounce can handle it.

 

Most can't accept this I think because they either have good swings but are trying to bring a torqued shaft into this shot or they are twisting and not rotating the shaft around the COG of the clubhead.

 

Good luck!

That is one of the very, very few examples of when it's OK to purposely hit behind the ball with an open face. And you noted it, the shot requires a big swing with speed. You're playing that shot like a bunker shot on turf. I've used that shot before. But very sparingly because it's really hard to execute well compared to many other shots. 

 

Good luck pulling that shot off if you rarely practice it. And by pulling it off, I mean hitting it inside 3 feet.

[getitdaily]

12 minutes ago, cav5 said:

LOL just physics! You'll be screwed if you torque the shaft on shots like this. You won't have enough time to compensate. You can on a full swing though.

What is "torque-ing" the shaft?

[cav5]

3 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

That is one of the very, very few examples of when it's OK to purposely hit behind the ball with an open face. And you noted it, the shot requires a big swing with speed. You're playing that shot like a bunker shot on turf. I've used that shot before. But very sparingly because it's really hard to execute well compared to many other shots. 

 

Good luck pulling that shot off if you rarely practice it. And by pulling it off, I mean hitting it inside 3 feet.

I understand but the he's just applying the concept everywhere. Its calculating for the shot and doing the same thing. I get you're not a fan of it but there isn't more I can say. He doesn't look at it differently than any other shot. His practice you could say would be universal. But you'd need to practice how to hit normal shots 5-10-15 etc yards too.

 

2 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

What is "torque-ing" the shaft?

Much more than than we are just using analogies. I'd say bend. Anything else and I'm giving up my secrets!

[swh0507]

2 minutes ago, cav5 said:

I understand but the he's just applying the concept everywhere. Its calculating for the shot and doing the same thing. I get you're not a fan of it but there isn't more I can say. He doesn't look at it differently than any other shot. His practice you could say would be universal. But you'd need to practice how to hit normal shots 5-10-15 etc yards too.

 

Much more than than we are just using analogies. I'd say bend. Anything else and I'm giving up my secrets!

Wait, so you think you are bending the shaft in any significant way on 5-10-15 yard shots to the point that you have to manage the bend? Did you put an orange whip shaft in?

[cav5]

5 minutes ago, swh0507 said:

Wait, so you think you are bending the shaft in any significant way on 5-10-15 yard shots to the point that you have to manage the bend? Did you put an orange whip shaft in?

If you bend the shaft you can no longer rotate it around the clubs COG. You tell me..

 

Cool experiments though is to mess around with super whippy shafts.

 

Maybe you understand why I do not care to go down the physics and measurements conversations lol

[getitdaily]

18 minutes ago, cav5 said:

I understand but the he's just applying the concept everywhere. Its calculating for the shot and doing the same thing. I get you're not a fan of it but there isn't more I can say. He doesn't look at it differently than any other shot. His practice you could say would be universal. But you'd need to practice how to hit normal shots 5-10-15 etc yards too.

 

Much more than than we are just using analogies. I'd say bend. Anything else and I'm giving up my secrets!

So an on purpose steep angled flip...

[jonsnow]

32 minutes ago, cav5 said:

I understand but the he's just applying the concept everywhere. Its calculating for the shot and doing the same thing. I get you're not a fan of it but there isn't more I can say. He doesn't look at it differently than any other shot. His practice you could say would be universal. But you'd need to practice how to hit normal shots 5-10-15 etc yards too.

 

Much more than than we are just using analogies. I'd say bend. Anything else and I'm giving up my secrets!

I'll have whatever he's drinking....

[iacas]

4 hours ago, cav5 said:

Why would BH contact and flight change based on bounce if he’s hitting ball first?

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2PspOTOuF2/?igsh=Y2N5cWNpYXd1em9m

 

Three simple points:

1. He starts off by talking about short game pitch shots. This is the shot (off turf) where engaging the bounce makes the most sense. So, maybe he IS engaging the bounce on these shots.
2. Even when he's not, he says something (paraphrasing) "we're pretty consistent, but some weeks how we enter the ground is a little bit different" and so he switches to another grind. This makes sense, because some weeks you want a little more of a camber, or a little more heel relief, or a little more bounce, or whatever. How the club interacts with the ground, even if it's after you've struck the ball, affects how the shot "feels" to the player. The weeks he feels like the ball rides up the face, he is probably delivering a less forward leaning shaft and flipping it a little bit, so he switches to the V so he feels he can hit down a bit more (or deliver more shaft lean). The shot he demonstrates is very much not a pitch, and it's one where he hits the ball first and the bounce doesn't engage until after impact.
3. He's talking about low bounce wedges, because Tour players more than almost anyone would rather hit the ball first and NOT rely on the variability that comes with hitting the ground and using the glide or bounce. I teach amateurs to use the bounce, as it adds margin of error, but it's important to have a variety of shots, and the shot MORE pros use way MORE often, is to hit the ball before the ground (and the tops of the grass ≠ the ground) because it affords them the most control.

 

While you're back, @cav5, perhaps you'll reply to:

 

 

Or at least to:

 

On 1/14/2024 at 11:22 PM, cav5 said:

As you open and remove lean you will lower the flight.

 

 

2 hours ago, cav5 said:

Most likely he's taking his most lofted club opening it and getting in a few inches before impact. He's taking a pretty "big" swing. One atleast big and slow enough for him to have the shaft untorqued and rotating around clubhead COG. He'll error on the side of too much swing plus a longer deeper surf but his bounce can handle it.

 

Nobody's debating that you NEVER use the bounce. They're pointing out that you don't use it on ALL shots, particularly those that aren't greenside — like distance wedges, etc.

 

1 hour ago, cav5 said:

I understand but the he's just applying the concept everywhere.

 

No he's not.

 

 

1 hour ago, cav5 said:

If you bend the shaft you can no longer rotate it around the clubs COG. You tell me..

 

Cool experiments though is to mess around with super whippy shafts.

 

Maybe you understand why I do not care to go down the physics and measurements conversations lol

 

Because you don't understand physics and "measurement"? Also, a golf club's COG is not in the shaft (or in the clubhead). It's outside of both. It's in the air somewhere.

Edited January 18 by iacas

[cav5]

Didn't say golf club. Clubhead's COG

 

 

 

[cav5]

Video 1 is ball first. Can hear how bad it sounds ball rides face

 

Video 2 ground first. There’s an 80 inch tv in front of me I’m not opening it anymore. You can hear the difference 

 

 

[cav5]

yes i know theres a lot of no look silk there lol. The action on the shaft there is 180* from a full swing

Edited January 18 by cav5