Bounce is Your Friend on Partial Wedge Shots and Engaging the Turf Prior to the Ball is a Good Thing When Hitting Them

[Righty to Lefty]

Carrying on a conversation from another thread. Use the bounce people and engage the turf behind the ball  to make sure the leading edge gets below the equator of the ball. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[iacas]

Oy.

• Using the bounce to hit a shot is and can be an effective shot. Big fan of that shot, teach it to a lot of people. But…
• It's not the way you should learn to hit every shot around the greens, as your options will be limited.

Simple math here: if your wedge has 8° of bounce, and you're leaning the shaft forward 15°, you can hit the ball first before the bounce touches the ground.

 

Joe Mayo's videos demonstrate how trying to hit the ground first with every shot is a fool's errand, and though I disagree with him that 10-12° down is "steep," it's proof that, once again, the OP doesn't appreciate the facts.

 

Another of those times to not engage the bounce purposefully behind the ball: distance wedges. Even the OP seems to "get" this subconsciously.

 

 

Also, no, this will not be a successful shot, unless your intent is to blast it 60 yards over the green:

 

 

I play really high bounce wedges, too, and like the forgiveness bounce gives me. As I mentioned in the other topic, PING named their Glide wedges after what I wrote in my book about how the "bounce" should be called the "glide" because "bounce" has a negative connotation of the club bouncing into the ball… which it can and will do on hardpan or other types of lies.

 

I'm just glad this topic can hopefully be contained here so it doesn't have to infect the other topic about clubface rotation.

[Sean124]

Short game lesson from a 5 handicap using Alien wedges…

 

[getitdaily]

You use a wedge with a flange that is 6 inches long. 

 

I'd say wide flange is YOUR friend.

[KansasHacker]

As Robert Sylvester Kelly once said,

“Now let me see you bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce
Bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce”

 

Edited January 12 by KansasHacker

[Pepperturbo]

Always been a low bounce guy, myself.  Normally 2-8° low bounce wedges and usually have my irons shaved for less bounce, negative bounce in long irons.  I don't engage the turf much when hitting most shots, mostly scrape the turf to full shot 9i-LW, those I take a deeper swipe to roots.  

 

Not everyone digs a loaf after impacting the ball.  No aliens in my life… LOL 

[MonteScheinblum]

 

[Pepperturbo]

3 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

 

Is this one of your students??? LOL 

[MonteScheinblum]

9 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Is this one of your students??? LOL 

 

9 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Is this one of your students??? LOL 

Yes, he was a +2 and this is what happened after I taught him impact is all that matters and just have slow smooth temp.

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Yes, he was a +2 and this is what happened after I taught him impact is all that matters and just have slow smooth temp.

 

I liked how gravity helped him fall to the ground a few times in that sequence.

[dirthead]

28 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

 

Yes, he was a +2 and this is what happened after I taught him impact is all that matters and just have slow smooth temp.

He wasn’t using the bounce. 

[Shilgy]

17 minutes ago, dirthead said:

He wasn’t using the bounce. 

Yeah but he tried to….engaged the turf well behind the ball and everything.

 

Does C3i make a driver?

[KD1]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

 

 

 

I mean... he certainly could put himself in a better position in relation to the ball

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

 

Yes, he was a +2 and this is what happened after I taught him impact is all that matters and just have slow smooth temp.

To be fair, his path and low point control were quite consistent. He just needed to trust that accidental change in address position at 0:38 so he could understand impact better. 

[Mcdgolfsalot]

Releasing the lag waaaay too early to hit that far behind it. Hold that lag son, pull that handle down 

[Righty to Lefty]

7 hours ago, iacas said:

Oy.

• Using the bounce to hit a shot is and can be an effective shot. Big fan of that shot, teach it to a lot of people. But…
• It's not the way you should learn to hit every shot around the greens, as your options will be limited.

Simple math here: if your wedge has 8° of bounce, and you're leaning the shaft forward 15°, you can hit the ball first before the bounce touches the ground.

 

Joe Mayo's videos demonstrate how trying to hit the ground first with every shot is a fool's errand, and though I disagree with him that 10-12° down is "steep," it's proof that, once again, the OP doesn't appreciate the facts.

 

Another of those times to not engage the bounce purposefully behind the ball: distance wedges. Even the OP seems to "get" this subconsciously.

 

 

Also, no, this will not be a successful shot, unless your intent is to blast it 60 yards over the green:

 

 

I play really high bounce wedges, too, and like the forgiveness bounce gives me. As I mentioned in the other topic, PING named their Glide wedges after what I wrote in my book about how the "bounce" should be called the "glide" because "bounce" has a negative connotation of the club bouncing into the ball… which it can and will do on hardpan or other types of lies.

 

I'm just glad this topic can hopefully be contained here so it doesn't have to infect the other topic about clubface rotation.

Right on...do your thang. I mean after I posted tour pros engaging the turf before the ball I find it ironic that I was ridiculed and told I had no clue what I was talking about.  I mean if everything that I do is so dead wrong how did I ever get to a 5 handicap in under 2 years after switching from righty to lefty?  I mean my feels can't be that damn good and I can't have been that damn lucky.  

 

Back to the topic...bounce is your friend.

 

[iacas]

17 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I mean after I posted tour pros engaging the turf before the ball

 

Two little things there:

• You don't see things the way almost anyone else does. That's not a compliment about your "unique" perspective or anything: what you see as the pro engaging the turf others see as (correctly, often) more ball-first contact. What you see as Kyle and Bryson starting their downswing at the "same time" others see as quite different.
• There are plenty of shots where Tour players don't engage the bounce before impact, shots where they absolutely hit the ball first. So if one were to compile a video of those… then what? Would you admit that you're wrong, or at the very least that not all shots are played with the bounce and hitting the ball first? That'd seemingly be a first if so, which is why I'm dubious of that. And… to that, have you been under a rock lately with Joe Mayo's stuff?

 

17 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I mean if everything that I do is so dead wrong how did I ever get to a 5 handicap in under 2 years after switching from righty to lefty?

 

You lean pretty heavily on that five handicap thing, but you didn't forget the previous six years playing righty, and it's been "six months" in other topics. And, I mean, there are plenty of people here and in the world who would have to give you several shots a side and would still beat you. You haven't gotten better than a 5 in the last 15 years?

 

17 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I mean my feels can't be that damn good and I can't have been that damn lucky.

 

Feel ain't real. You haven't learned that in the last fifteen years, either?

 

17 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Back to the topic...bounce is your friend.

 

Sometimes. Not always, like you seem to believe.

 

Edit: True to form, you glossed over or just completely left out a good chunk of my post/response. I mean, you do you… but we can all see what that is.

 

Edited January 13 by iacas

[GolfTurkey]

If I read too much more, I'm joining the snake:

 

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

If I read too much more, I'm joining the snake:

 

Might have to change your avatar then, and your username should be Julius Ouroboros. 😉 

[JayMas]

54 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Right on...do your thang. I mean after I posted tour pros engaging the turf before the ball I find it ironic that I was ridiculed and told I had no clue what I was talking about.  I mean if everything that I do is so dead wrong how did I ever get to a 5 handicap in under 2 years after switching from righty to lefty?  I mean my feels can't be that damn good and I can't have been that damn lucky.  

 

Back to the topic...bounce is your friend.

 

That's not what anyone said to you. No one said "the bounce isn't your friend."

 

They said things like:

 

You didn't hit 6 inches behind that ball on the course in your video even if you felt like you did.

 

Happy your feels work for you, chances are they won't help others and they are not what's actually happening in the swing 

 

Carpet is not the same as the various lies on a course

 

No your CSi3 wedge doesn't have 40 degrees of bounce.

 

Even in the video where Tiger hit behind the ball, it wasn't 6 inches (and no one ever claimed that a slight fat on a certain kind of chip is bad)

 

 

[naval2006]

Does the title of this thread translate into hitting the ground before the ball with partial wedges? Or am I going crazy?

Edited January 13 by naval2006

[getitdaily]

7 minutes ago, naval2006 said:

Does the title of this thread translate into hitting the ground before the ball with partial wedges? Or am I going crazy?

That is what OP is suggesting. And he says that's the only way any partial wedge shot needs to be played..

[badpokerbadgolf]

19 hours ago, Sean124 said:

Short game lesson from a 5 handicap using Alien wedges…

 

 

I use this same wedge (the 65 degree) as the OP.  I don't have a current handicap index but probably chipping at the level of a +2 or a +4.

 

These wedges aren't going to want a lot of shaft lean, if you try to hit them like a 60/04 vokey you're going to have a bad time.  But if you play courses that are wet, or have a steep swing, then this bounce/sole profile can perform very well.  I'm pretty steep in general and the wide sole on this "alien" wedge has really good turf interaction for my particular swing. 

 

I disagree with OP about tight lies though.  It can work to hit a stock shot and spin it a little bit with medium loft.  But if you need to get the ball up in the air off a tight lie close to the green, you're going to want to use a different stick for that shot.

[Shilgy]

11 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Two little things there:

• You don't see things the way almost anyone else does. That's not a compliment about your "unique" perspective or anything: what you see as the pro engaging the turf others see as (correctly, often) more ball-first contact. What you see as Kyle and Bryson starting their downswing at the "same time" others see as quite different.
• There are plenty of shots where Tour players don't engage the bounce before impact, shots where they absolutely hit the ball first. So if one were to compile a video of those… then what? Would you admit that you're wrong, or at the very least that not all shots are played with the bounce and hitting the ball first? That'd seemingly be a first if so, which is why I'm dubious of that. And… to that, have you been under a rock lately with Joe Mayo's stuff?

 

 

You lean pretty heavily on that five handicap thing, but you didn't forget the previous six years playing righty, and it's been "six months" in other topics. And, I mean, there are plenty of people here and in the world who would have to give you several shots a side and would still beat you. You haven't gotten better than a 5 in the last 15 years?

 

 

Feel ain't real. You haven't learned that in the last fifteen years, either?

 

 

Sometimes. Not always, like you seem to believe.

 

Edit: True to form, you glossed over or just completely left out a good chunk of my post/response. I mean, you do you… but we can all see what that is.

 

Apparently some consider brushing the grass to be engaging the turf. Last time I checked the club does NOT bounce of the blades of grass.

Edited January 13 by Shilgy

[naj959]

52 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Apparently some consider brushing the grass to be engaging the turf. Last time I checked the club does NOT bounce of the blades of grass.

I think this is the source of all the disagreement. OP says engage the turf and many are visualizing the club get into the soil. I think the OP meant the club glides along ground much like a ruddder. At least that was my interpretation of his motion.  Curious how he would play a ball sitting out of  sandy lie (not a bunker) where the ground is loose but has no depth. That shot gives me fits. I've found the most consistent way to play it is to put the ball off the back foot and raise the handle at address so the heel is off the ground. If you try to use the bounce the ball is going about 2 feet.

[Sean124]

6 minutes ago, naj959 said:

I think this is the source of all the disagreement. OP says engage the turf and many are visualizing the club get into the soil. I think the OP meant the club glides along ground much like a ruddder. At least that was my interpretation of his motion.  Curious how he would play a ball sitting out of  sandy lie (not a bunker) where the ground is loose but has no depth. That shot gives me fits. I've found the most consistent way to play it is to put the ball off the back foot and raise the handle at address so the heel is off the ground. If you try to use the bounce the ball is going about 2 feet.

I took a video of what I consider a “use the bounce” shot. It comes out high and lands soft, but doesn’t have much spin. 
 

 

I also guessed at the distance of OP’s fairway video and hit this about 70 yards. 
 

 

 

[Gsea]

6 minutes ago, Sean124 said:

I took a video of what I consider a “use the bounce” shot. It comes out high and lands soft, but doesn’t have much spin. 
 

 

I also guessed at the distance of OP’s fairway video and hit this about 70 yards. 
 

 

 

 

did these two shots go the same distance/ have the same flight etc?

[Sean124]

52 minutes ago, Gsea said:

 

did these two shots go the same distance/ have the same flight etc?

No. One is by the practice green where using the bounce is good for a lot of shots.

The other is a partial wedge shot where engaging the turf behind the ball as OP suggests is ridiculous.

[cav5]

7 minutes ago, Sean124 said:

No. One is by the practice green where using the bounce is good for a lot of shots.

The other is a partial wedge shot where engaging the turf behind the ball as OP suggests is ridiculous.

Pretty good on the short one! You used the leading edge on the second so you had no choice but to hit it like an iron  

[Gsea]

3 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Pretty good on the short one! You used the leading edge on the second so you had no choice but to hit it like an iron  

That was the whole idea I believe. Using the bounce on all shots is ridiculous.