Bounce is Your Friend on Partial Wedge Shots and Engaging the Turf Prior to the Ball is a Good Thing When Hitting Them

[cav5]

wrong pic.

 

Edited January 22 by cav5

[cav5]

[cav5]

Also relative to where the toe of the club is pointing. Very little shaft lean (if any). Sure trackman and others would vehemently disagree with those measurements tho lol

Edited January 22 by cav5

[swh0507]

9 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Also relative to where the toe of the club is pointing. Very little shaft lean (if any). Sure trackman and others would vehemently disagree with those measurements tho lol

Do you even look at or read what you repost? "Hitting the ground right at the moment of impact" is a lot different than hitting 6 inches behind it as you have said. Furthermore, there is a ton of shaft lean in that picture.

[cav5]

15 minutes ago, swh0507 said:

Do you even look at or read what you repost? "Hitting the ground right at the moment of impact" is a lot different than hitting 6 inches behind it as you have said. Furthermore, there is a ton of shaft lean in that picture.

 

Believe what you want that pic is before impact. R2L never said you need to. Merely said you could, which is the point. Yes in your fantasy world of trust where measuring shaft lean where certain variables can change and others can hold is FEELNOTREAL lol. Nice!

 

Also Joe may be smart and a good teacher so I'll leave him alone as he misspoke inadvertently. Why would bother to make a post about Victor hitting the ground early?

 

Just shows how little this has actually been considered that what you would call head of industry in chipping writes the same but wrong thing in one paragraph and saying something totally different. TRUST US WE KNOW!

Edited January 22 by cav5

[iacas]

29 minutes ago, cav5 said:

 

Cool story, bro. Now find the post where Joe (or anyone, really) says to hit the ground even 1" behind the ball when hitting a 120-yard shot.

 

Also, please find the posts where anyone here says you never use the bounce. I've said myself a few times in this topic that I teach that method to people all the time.

 

What I don't teach:

• Engaging the turf 4-6" behind the ball.
• Using a C3i wedge.
• Hitting behind the ball on distance wedges.

Your avatar should just be a straw man, because nearly every post you make is full of them.

 

 

16 minutes ago, swh0507 said:

Do you even look at or read what you repost?

 

He does not.

 

16 minutes ago, swh0507 said:

"Hitting the ground right at the moment of impact" is a lot different than hitting 6 inches behind it as you have said.

 

 

16 minutes ago, swh0507 said:

Furthermore, there is a ton of shaft lean in that picture.

 

Yeah, but… he's measuring with his eyes and wit.

 

12 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Believe what you want that pic is before impact.

 

There's also a shadow under the club because it's not touching the ground yet.

 

12 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Merely said you could, which is the point.

 

Fact check:

 

On 1/12/2024 at 1:28 PM, Righty to Lefty said:

Use the bounce people and engage the turf behind the ball  to make sure the leading edge gets below the equator of the ball. 

 

I'm not going to go back into the other topic to find out where he said even worse stuff (much of it was removed anyway), but he has said you should do it all the time, and neither of you have ever acknowledged that there are times and shots you'd want to hit the ball first, or as Joe says, the ball and the ground at the same time. Including on 120-yard shots.

 

Plus, the "to make sure the leading edge gets below the equator of the ball" part fails first grade geometry.

 

 

You'll pretend not to have read this, too, which is fine, because others are still reading and seeing how foolish what you keep typing is.

[Gsea]

@cav5I want that 120 yard shot hitting 2-6 inches behind the ball, face on video. Until then you're still just pissing in to the wind

[johnrobison]

2 hours ago, cav5 said:

Why would bother to make a post about Victor hitting the ground early?

Umm…. He didn’t. He said he was hitting the ground at the moment of impact. So….. ya.

 

P.S. Shaft lean isn’t about where the toe of the club is pointing.

[CSagan]

This my be of interest for some of you on the fence.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2Qe6niOScR/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[TexanIIDriver]

The tap dancing and back-tracking in this thread is superb. 

 

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, Gsea said:

@cav5I want that 120 yard shot hitting 2-6 inches behind the ball, face on video. Until then you're still just pissing in to the wind

Inb4 an argument that as long as you use a certain technique that everyone should piss into the wind because an expert pisser said so in a weird living room video. 

[MonteScheinblum]

I spoke to Joe on the phone last night for quite a while.  I was asking him for a video of VH to post on my Instagram on this subject.

 

Not going to reveal the details of the conversation, but let’s just say it’s pretty obvious to most which side of the debate he would take in this thread.

 

 

 

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Not going to reveal the details of the conversation, but let’s just say it’s pretty obvious to most which side of the debate he would take in this thread.

 

This side?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(These are all from his IG, but since you can't embed IG posts anymore…)

Edited January 23 by iacas

[MonteScheinblum]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

This side?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(These are all from his IG, but since you can't embed IG posts anymore…)

There is in fact a very valuable shot where you want to hit significantly behind the ball on purpose.  Wet soggy into the grain lie.  I call it the power chunk.  Open face, swing hard and try and hit a giant divot onto the green.

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

There is in fact a very valuable shot where you want to hit significantly behind the ball on purpose.  Wet soggy into the grain lie.  I call it the power chunk.  Open face, swing hard and try and hit a giant divot onto the green.

 

There are plenty of times when hitting slightly behind the ball and using the bounce is good or useful or desired.

 

Just not all the time. And (virtually) never from 120.

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I call it the power chunk. 

Your nickname should you show up at the next annual WLD. 😅

[cav5]

 

Trackman spits out data points labeled “shaft lean” so it’s gotta be true. The club in space has not changed. This is why arguing with Iacas is pointless.

[cav5]

Monte thats good and all, but Joe also said one thing then another then wrote another and wrote another all in one post. Fact is it rare to not use bounce on any short game shot. Hence the title of the thread. If people are scared of hitting the ground that is not grounds for something not to work. That is doubt from lack of understanding.

[getitdaily]

10 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Monte thats good and all, but Joe also said one thing then another then wrote another and wrote another all in one post. Fact is it rare to not use bounce on any short game shot. Hence the title of the thread. If people are scared of hitting the ground that is not grounds for something not to work. That is doubt from lack of understanding.

And you've changed the argument of this thread. The argument of the thread was that everyone should hit every chip by hitting the ground behind the ball. And the "behind the ball" perspective was noted as 6 inches behind.

 

The only argument I can think of for not using the bounce often is someone who just prefers to play the backfoot low runner for all chips. 

 

But "using the bounce" is a key part of a solid short game. Hitting behind the ball is not. It's a niche shot that has use, but very infrequently. The skill to pull it off is higher than any other shot because you have less control of launch, spin, and rollout.

[swh0507]

23 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Monte thats good and all, but Joe also said one thing then another then wrote another and wrote another all in one post. Fact is it rare to not use bounce on any short game shot. Hence the title of the thread. If people are scared of hitting the ground that is not grounds for something not to work. That is doubt from lack of understanding.

Dude, you are arguing with a guy who literally has released two short game lesson series called "Use the Bounce". He doesn't even agree with your misguided notions.  

[iacas]

19 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Trackman spits out data points labeled “shaft lean” so it’s gotta be true. The club in space has not changed. This is why arguing with Iacas is pointless.

 

So… I've not really argued about the shaft lean stuff. It's beside the many other points you've failed to acknowledge at this point. The video of the "wedge to 3 inches" had shaft lean and didn't "use the bounce," and your 120-yard wedges have shaft lean.

 

I agree that you arguing with me is pointless, but it's not because of my side of things. It's becase you just ignore the many points made against you. According to you, you don't even read what I write. You don't know if arguing with me is pointless because you've never really done it — you just post stuff and then run away when called out on it. You're dishonest, whether intellectually so or traditionally so (or both). Once again, for those in the back: nobody's said you never hit short game shots using the bounce, or a relatively neutral shaft. Still loving your straw men.

 

Were I to talk about the shaft lean stuff — saying again that I teach plenty of players to use the bounce around the greens, seeing as how your recent attempts are to completely move the goalposts to exclusively talking about short game shots — I'd say that shaft lean isn't necessarily square to the toe or bottom groove, but rather, more in the direction of the swing itself.

 

Question for you to dodge: how does one deliver 45° dynamic loft (or even 50°) with an open-faced 60° without shaft lean?

 

16 minutes ago, cav5 said:

Fact is it rare to not use bounce on any short game shot.

 

That is decidedly NOT a fact, and if you want to try to say that the bounce engages with the ground even on ball-first contact, we'll see that and call it what it is: goalpost shifting.

[Gsea]

18 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

And you've changed the argument of this thread.

100% this, @cav5 where's the face on video of hitting a 120yd shot by hitting behind the ball 2-6 inches. Walk the Talk or go back to ur day trading with your proprietary stock software that might be reversed engineered.

[DShepley]

8 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Your nickname should you show up at the next annual WLD. 😅

 

[Sean124]

13 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

And you've changed the argument of this thread. The argument of the thread was that everyone should hit every chip by hitting the ground behind the ball. And the "behind the ball" perspective was noted as 6 inches behind.

It’s worse than that. The real argument of this thread was hitting behind the ball on “partial wedge shots” at 50, 70, 120 yards. 
 

But goal posts are being shifted. 
 

Ball first

 

“Engaging the turf” where I lightly scuffed the mat behind the ball

 

Completely ignoring the forgiveness of a mat vs. hitting behind the ball in varying turf conditions, and that I still hit close to the ball- not several inches behind, I’ll take the extra spin over the extra height on a stock partial wedge shot. 
 

[JayMas]

11 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

There is in fact a very valuable shot where you want to hit significantly behind the ball on purpose.  Wet soggy into the grain lie.  I call it the power chunk.  Open face, swing hard and try and hit a giant divot onto the green.

For me, my power chunk is from about 50 yards out, ball goes 20. 

 

Pretty sick trick to have in the bag. 

[swh0507]

6 minutes ago, JayMas said:

For me, my power chunk is from about 50 yards out, ball goes 20. 

 

Pretty sick trick to have in the bag. 

Yep, I don't know which is more frustrating this ^^^ or this vvv

 

[TexanIIDriver]

1 hour ago, cav5 said:

Fact is it rare to not use bounce on any short game shot.

 

Edited January 23 by TexanIIDriver
.

[JayMas]

5 minutes ago, swh0507 said:

Yep, I don't know which is more frustrating this ^^^ or this vvv

 

An age-old question for sure haha!

Personal experience, as an early release chunker, I tend to run into the bunker problem less than the fairway fat, but the thinned wedge from a greenside bunker is probably the more devastating mistake.

[cav5]

1 hour ago, Gsea said:

100% this, @cav5 where's the face on video of hitting a 120yd shot by hitting behind the ball 2-6 inches. Walk the Talk or go back to ur day trading with your proprietary stock software that might be reversed engineered.

 

HEHE where did I say I hit 120 yard shots 2-6 inches behind the ball?

[cav5]

1 hour ago, Sean124 said:

It’s worse than that. The real argument of this thread was hitting behind the ball on “partial wedge shots” at 50, 70, 120 yards. 
 

But goal posts are being shifted. 
 

Ball first

 

“Engaging the turf” where I lightly scuffed the mat behind the ball

 

Completely ignoring the forgiveness of a mat vs. hitting behind the ball in varying turf conditions, and that I still hit close to the ball- not several inches behind, I’ll take the extra spin over the extra height on a stock partial wedge shot. 
 

 

I appreciate the effort. On thing to consider on a mat is that if you changed nothing and just hit it early you can get away with a early leading edge strike. Obviously not outdoors. Appears you may have done that and just caught it higher on the face. Would be helpful to see the club a few feet post impact.

 

Dunno about the goal post moving. All I can show is inside short shots. Clearly every video I've posted you can see the snow outside LOL