Are expensive golf lessons worth it?

[iacas]

Apparently I'm doing it wrong. My "packages" are four lessons, and I've had at least two guys spread those out over 4+ years. 😄 And new students aren't required to get the set.

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, Haber said:

I’ve done the 15 lesson pack from a major lesson retailer here in Canada. That was many years ago but I’d never do it again. The lessons are too frequent without much time for actually learning and ingraining the new moves.

 

My swing has come miles since then and I just had a single lesson with an awesome instructor. It was $350 but it was 2.5 hours of data collection on swing catalyst and GCquad. In that time we got path 4-5 degrees closer to neutral and swing speed up 5-8 mph. We narrowed down 3-4 pieces to tackle and left the next appointment open. I now have all winter to work on these changes and send him check ins along the way to make sure they’re being implemented right.

 

Most of the time if you’re being pushed into a package then that is their main goal.

I fell for the hard sell on a series of golftec lessons several years ago.  Worst move of my golfing life.  A truly miserable experience.

[neighborhoodhero]

11 hours ago, iacas said:

Apparently I'm doing it wrong. My "packages" are four lessons, and I've had at least two guys spread those out over 4+ years. 😄 And new students aren't required to get the set.

This is great. You have to give students time to work on it. The stars have to align perfectly to fit in all the lessons without cramming them in at a lot of places

[neighborhoodhero]

On 1/31/2024 at 2:19 PM, PedronNiall said:

https://www.gearssports.com/golf-swing-biomechanics/

 

Gears is 3D mapping of the body throughout the swing. One of the huge means by which we've been able to identify what all levels of players actually do in their swings in comparison to what they believe they are doing and what motions actually create good results. 

 

 

Pressure mapping is what it sounds like. It creates intensity maps of the pressure shifts that occur in the golf swing as reflected by the body's weight and muscular activity being distributed down into the ground via our lovely feet.

 

This tech is what makes me want to spend the big bucks and why I am looking at the places I am. It’s just a $300 evaluation and another $250 biomechanics assessment then 10-20pack of lessons. It seems like a lot of money to spend to see a different coach after. The evaluation would be great but I know it wouldn’t be enough to help me make changes on its own.

[Louis_Posture]

1 hour ago, neighborhoodhero said:

This tech is what makes me want to spend the big bucks and why I am looking at the places I am

Why? For many decades instructors taught and players learned how to swing the club great without any "tech" involved.

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

Why? For many decades instructors taught and players learned how to swing the club great without any "tech" involved.

Why? For centuries we dealt with no indoor plumbing and electricity.

[OHGolfer2]

11 hours ago, neighborhoodhero said:

This tech is what makes me want to spend the big bucks

I've down a couple GEARS lessons in Florida and they were easily the best lessons I've had.  Possibly more suited for a lower index, because a beginner golfer would likely have obvious swing faults.  It was a far more efficient way to learn than other lessons I've done because the numbers are indisputable.  That's not to say that regular (non-tech) lessons wouldn't work, just that I found GEARS worked better for me.  

[Liveonce]

16 minutes ago, OHGolfer2 said:

I've down a couple GEARS lessons in Florida and they were easily the best lessons I've had.  Possibly more suited for a lower index, because a beginner golfer would likely have obvious swing faults.  It was a far more efficient way to learn than other lessons I've done because the numbers are indisputable.  That's not to say that regular (non-tech) lessons wouldn't work, just that I found GEARS worked better for me.  

where at? Was looking at doing the same

[neighborhoodhero]

10 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

Why? For many decades instructors taught and players learned how to swing the club great without any "tech" involved.

I don’t know why I am explaining

Instant feedback, easy to identify flaws and another layer of proof to backup what the coach is saying.

I use the ground a lot in my swing, likely inefficiently. I would like to see where my pressure points are and understand what the correct way feels like. 

Coach could say you are swaying too much towards the target. Gears helps breakdown exactly what is causing that movement. Instead of hitting him looking at a computer saying too much, too much again, you can attack the problem at the root and better understand why it’s is happening. Sure a coach can identify it but it may take 10 more swings. 
 

 

 

 

[Louis_Posture]

2 hours ago, neighborhoodhero said:

you can attack the problem at the root and better understand why it’s is happening. Sure a coach can identify it but it may take 10 more swings. 
 

 

 

 

The "root" is within the address position technique (grip-posture-alignment). This is why old school instructors taught these address technique fundamentals.

[iacas]

21 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

The "root" is within the address position technique (grip-posture-alignment). This is why old school instructors taught these address technique fundamentals.

No, it’s often not there. It’s often in the dynamic parts of the swing. I also teach grip and setup, but there’s more to the swing than that. Setup is comparatively easy.

[Puttersaurus Rex]

[neighborhoodhero]

3 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

The "root" is within the address position technique (grip-posture-alignment). This is why old school instructors taught these address technique fundamentals.

Please. 

[Louis_Posture]

29 minutes ago, neighborhoodhero said:

Please. 

Please what? Swing faults can be traced back to address technique. This is why Tour pros are constantly checking and rechecking their grip-posture-alignment.

 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

Please what? Swing faults can be traced back to address technique. This is why Tour pros are constantly checking and rechecking their grip-posture-alignment.

 

They're also constantly working on the dynamic part of their swings, because despite what you say, not everything can be traced back to "address technique."

 

I can teach a person who doesn't have a clue how to swing a golf club (a flat out beginner) to grip and set up to a ball properly. From there, they might whiff entirely or something. Setup plays a role in the swing you make, but most of the faults in the golf swing stem from the dynamic, not the static.

[Ty_Webb]

not least that if you compare Paul Azinger with Bryson DeChambeau, you've got a four knuckle grip with a maybe one knuckle grip and they both were able to play pretty well. Tour pros are constantly checking and rechecking their grip-posture-alignment because if those things get away from where they normally are, that can result in issues. It's not that they're trying to make them "textbook". They are also constantly working on everything as iacas says.

[PedronNiall]

4 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

Please what? Swing faults can be traced back to address technique. This is why Tour pros are constantly checking and rechecking their grip-posture-alignment.

 

There's this guy named Jack Nicklaus, you may have heard of him. Every year he went back to his instructor, a fellow known as the Viper of Valhalla and the Sparrow of Spyglass*, AKA Jack Grout. Let's take a look at what Jack had to say about his annual tune ups with Jack: 

 

Let's also see what Jack had to say from his own POV:

 

Imma just guess those two understood the fundamentals of great golf a bit better than someone who thinks it's all decided before the club ever begins to move. I can point you to some rockets that looked reeeeaaal good alignment-wise on the pad before they got started trying to fly through the air and began getting things real wrong.

 

Also, FYI, all that tech you hate? Yeah, it says your supposition is bunk as well. You can find plenty of players at all levels who mirror the pro of your choice prior to takeaway; the myriad ways they differ after setup & up to impact is where the problems come in. 

 

 

 

*any above nicknames that do not align with the realities of recorded history or the space-time continuum may or may not be for light comedic purposes. Please consult your doctor if your baby draw or push cut lasts more than four hours. 

[indianagolf2]

Depends who you see..jiseph mayo yes

[Puttersaurus Rex]

Louis’ anti-modern schtick would be more believable if he didn’t use the internet to spam his one-sided opinions.

[Mrgreen36]

You guys all have tape measures too?  

 

😆 

[gators78]

Yea I’ll offer a different approach since the whole idea is to beat your buddies in the short term. Get something like the Arccos system to track your rounds and figure out the weak spots with data, then get lessons based on what you actually need help with. You’re trying to save the most strokes with the minimum dosage possible. That’ll have way more impact over spending 10 lessons chasing swing positions then praying they work so you don’t have to memorize the quadratic formula for the ACT.

 

If you’re a 6 the swing must be pretty serviceable already. Force plates or GEARS would be cool to gain some additional length, but speed work will be an ongoing effort. Lessons are only helpful if you’re able to put in time and effort to work in between the sessions, or else you’re going to be told the same thing in a different format. 

[PedronNiall]

3 hours ago, gators78 said:

Yea I’ll offer a different approach since the whole idea is to beat your buddies in the short term. Get something like the Arccos system to track your rounds and figure out the weak spots with data, then get lessons based on what you actually need help with. You’re trying to save the most strokes with the minimum dosage possible. That’ll have way more impact over spending 10 lessons chasing swing positions then praying they work so you don’t have to memorize the quadratic formula for the ACT.

 

If you’re a 6 the swing must be pretty serviceable already. Force plates or GEARS would be cool to gain some additional length, but speed work will be an ongoing effort. Lessons are only helpful if you’re able to put in time and effort to work in between the sessions, or else you’re going to be told the same thing in a different format. 

There's a plus who posted himself for feedback who's thread is on page 1 currently. At least some of his swing issues were able to quickly be picked up in a single angle clip. Being a 6 does not at all say there aren't plenty of low hanging fruits to be caught by video, GEARS, and other devices & monitors. Considering he opens his post mentioning how bad his friends talk about his swing being I'm guessing that's more likely than not. 

 

I agree Arccos could give him a focus for at least some of his lessons, but a detailed swing analysis will also be incredibly beneficial for his longterm golf game. Certainly a much faster way to figure it out than not having one done. 

[MonteScheinblum]

I’m so upset with myself.  I wish I would have kept a notebook over the years of past posters and banned posters with their theories and schtick.  

[virtuoso]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I’m so upset with myself.  I wish I would have kept a notebook over the years of past posters and banned posters with their theories and schtick.  

Yeah, but you almost don’t need your notebook, because when they come back, their identities are hidden, but their unique stupidity is impossible to hide.

Edited February 4 by virtuoso

[virtuoso]

59 minutes ago, Chainlinks said:

where’s that Cary? Guy that had a hard on for you years ago gone? Somehow you really chaffed his a55 

Monte sent a ninja into Cary’s condo to switch his keyboard to Kanji characters….and we never heard from him again.

[Inexorable_Fate]

I didn't expect to run into the anti-lesson, anti-tech crowd here. My mistake.

 

Also garbage like only a Tour player can coach. Someone tell Scottie Scheffler (Randy Smith), Jordan Spieth (Cameron McCormick), and Jason Day (Chris Como) that their coaches are unqualified.

 

Onto the topic at hand. I wouldn't drop that amount of time and money without taking a lesson or two with them first. 10 lessons would take me a while to work through.

 

[Hawkeye77]

On 2/1/2024 at 9:49 PM, neighborhoodhero said:

This tech is what makes me want to spend the big bucks and why I am looking at the places I am. It’s just a $300 evaluation and another $250 biomechanics assessment then 10-20pack of lessons. It seems like a lot of money to spend to see a different coach after. The evaluation would be great but I know it wouldn’t be enough to help me make changes on its own.

So just sign up already. 
 

😜

[Louis_Posture]

34 minutes ago, Inexorable_Fate said:

 

 

Also garbage like only a Tour player can coach.

 

I never wrote "only a Tour player can coach". I suggested that the OP, or anyone else looking for an instructor, if they find one who formerly played on Tour will greatly increase their chances of learning good fundamental golf technique. In contrast, most non-player instructors don't have the respect and, or appreciation for fundamentals that Tour players do.

For example, there is a guy who teaches at a range I visit and he often has his students align their bodies well right of the target line. The students then notice their ball flight changes from a slice to one more on target, or even a draw. So, the student is pleased and the instructor believes he's been helpful. But what's happened here is the instructor has given the student a band-aid which will soon lead to even more swing problems.

A competent instructor does not sell band-aids; he/she teaches address technique fundamentals which provide a solid foundation for an effective swing that will last a lifetime.

Tiger's first teacher Rudy Duran does not receive the credit he deserves for teaching Tiger correct fundamental address technique (grip-posture-alignment).

 

[virtuoso]

9 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

I never wrote "only a Tour player can coach". I suggested that the OP, or anyone else looking for an instructor, if they find one who formerly played on Tour will greatly increase their chances of learning good fundamental golf technique. In contrast, most non-player instructors don't have the respect and, or appreciation for fundamentals that Tour players do.

For example, there is a guy who teaches at a range I visit and he often has his students align their bodies well right of the target line. The students then notice their ball flight changes from a slice to one more on target, or even a draw. So, the student is pleased and the instructor believes he's been helpful. But what's happened here is the instructor has given the student a band-aid which will soon lead to even more swing problems.

A competent instructor does not sell band-aids; he/she teaches address technique fundamentals which provide a solid foundation for an effective swing that will last a lifetime.

Tiger's first teacher Rudy Duran does not receive the credit he deserves for teaching Tiger correct fundamental address technique (grip-posture-alignment).

 

These are the kind of posts that make me feel like a mean person, and I don’t want to feel like that…..at least for the next hour or two.

[MonteScheinblum]

7 hours ago, virtuoso said:

Yeah, but you almost don’t need your notebook, because when they come back, their identities are hidden, but their unique stupidity is impossible to hide.

True, but there are so many, I can’t keep track of all their handles.  Like the 20 handles of Jeff Mann and the 1362 of the aforementioned name that is actually a banned word on here like the F word.