Core Strength & AMG's Pro vs. Ams Hip Rotation video.

[skim4]

Does anyone else find it VERY hard to get into the positions they show for Pros? With the hip joints centered more above the feet? I've put myself into golf jail until I improve my blow average core strength. 

When I put my feet a couple of inches off the wall and get into a good golf position with butt against wall it is very hard to stay there. Obviously this is a core strength issue. Has anyone else had this problem? 

 

I've started to do some planks and hollow holds to help develop these lacking muscles. They say to do hollow holds for 30 seconds and I can't do 5.... 

 

I have to get my hip joints more above my feet to be able to rotate back. Otherwise my butt is already out and it has nowhere to go but towards the ball. 

 

Any fitness tips for chubsters like me? 

[iacas]

28 minutes ago, skim4 said:

Does anyone else find it VERY hard to get into the positions they show for Pros? With the hip joints centered more above the feet? I've put myself into golf jail until I improve my blow average core strength. 

When I put my feet a couple of inches off the wall and get into a good golf position with butt against wall it is very hard to stay there. Obviously this is a core strength issue. Has anyone else had this problem? 

 

I don't know that it's about core strength so much as two things:

• Your center of mass might be more forward than they show in the video. The point is not to get your hips over your ankles, but rather… to get your center of mass more over the front of the arches in your feet.
• Learning that you're actually a little bit more stable there than you think you are.

Do you have an instructor with pressure plates to where you could see where you're set up?

 

I prefer a setup similar to the ones they showed in the video, too, and find that a LOT of people early extend during the backswing and rotate their pelvis toward the golf ball then. This helps stop that.

 

But also, there are Tour players who set up with their hips back, too, so it's not a dealbreaker by any stretch.

 

Still images and/or a good angle down-the-line video would help.

[skim4]

I've doing online lessons with good success but I feel these set up and very weak core issues are holding me back. There is a localish guy with all the gadgets and gizmos - I was trying to wait until I improved all the low hanging fruit( fruit isnt very low hanging after all) before I went to that. 

 

I attached a video of yesterday. This is a very unstable position for me and I cannot hold it for long. I want to be even more "Athletic" ( more like the AMG videos than that but I cannot get into the position unassisted by  wall) with a little less forward bend at address and hips more over ankles. 

 

 

IMG_5882.MOV

Edited January 29 by skim4

[Sean124]

The thing that helps me feel more stable in this position is having more bend at the ankles. 

[skim4]

1 minute ago, Sean124 said:

The thing that helps me feel more stable in this position is having more bend at the ankles. 

Yea! That's what I'm trying to do. But I got a belly and it is very hard without sticking that butt too far out. 

[Sean124]

22 minutes ago, skim4 said:

Yea! That's what I'm trying to do. But I got a belly and it is very hard without sticking that butt too far out. 

Ah, the butt-gut counterbalance 😜

 

More than a strength issue, I think a lot of it is it just feels weird after sticking your butt out for every other athletic position your whole life. 
 

Edited January 29 by Sean124

[jonsnow]

34 minutes ago, Sean124 said:

The thing that helps me feel more stable in this position is having more bend at the ankles. 

Do you mean having a bit more forward angle in your shins? Knees more towards toes?

[iacas]

43 minutes ago, skim4 said:

I've doing online lessons with good success

 

Your camera view isn't quite what you want it to be to measure "center of hips over ankles."

 

 

I also think you could bend over a bit more, but if you're having a hard time feeling like your butt is "forward" enough here, that won't help that at all.

 

This is a tough thing to do online. I use these in giving lessons sometimes, and you could build one for yourself:

 

 

Also, you're not nearly as big bellied as your first post implied. 😄 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sean124]

2 minutes ago, jonsnow said:

Do you mean having a bit more forward angle in your shins? Knees more towards toes?

Yeah just a little.
 

If I don’t do it and set up with my heels a couple inches from the wall, I feel out over my toes. With a bit of ankle bend I feel the pressure in my feet shift back just enough to feel stable. 

[MattM97]

We have to remember what pros are capable of are at the extremes even if simple movement. Their day jobs are to be good at golf, our day jobs are to do whatever we do just so we can afford golf. 

 

But it's also not hard to strengthen our core and you don't have to suffer in plank positions either with little to no gains from them. A few exercises to strengthen core you can do at home or gym easily:

 

* Suitcase Carry - this can be done with a dumbbell, kettlebell, a bucket filled with whatever. Hold that in 1 hand at your side and walk then switch hands and walk again. Can be down and back, just down really depends on length of space you have. For additional work in your free hand you can hold a lighter weight in that hand to have more engagement and tension on the core. 

 

* Standing Marches - Again same as above, might be hard with a bucket, stand in place weight held up to your chest in a comfortable position, if you can hold it out just a touch but not full arm extension. Then just march in place, I'll usually just do 1 leg at a time but you can march with both legs in place. 

 

Try those, you may think they're not doing a ton because "I'm not sore or it doesn't hurt" yeah don't worry they're working you'll feel a difference over time it just an exercise that doesn't put pressure on your low back or joints when doing them. 

 

Additionally add in hip flexor exercises like seated leg lifts and proper hip flexor stretch and you should see some progression, just have to be consistent with these and luckily enough they're not a dreaded exercise to do. 

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 hours ago, skim4 said:

Obviously this is a core strength issue. Has anyone else had this problem? 

 

I've started to do some planks and hollow holds to help develop these lacking muscles. They say to do hollow holds for 30 seconds and I can't do 5.... 

 

I have to get my hip joints more above my feet to be able to rotate back. Otherwise my butt is already out and it has nowhere to go but towards the ball. 

 

Any fitness tips for chubsters like me? 

 

Can't help with the golf stuff but I've been working hard to improve my body over the last ~19 months. After 2+ decades of a sedentary office job, I've realized core is a major area that I've lacked focus and one of the key areas to improve. But I probably only did ~80 dedicated core workouts in 2023, which I need to improve. My plan for 2024 is to do 10 (or more) minutes of core EVERY day. For me it's done via Peloton, but I'm sure you can find a bunch of simple core routines on YouTube to lead you through what you need to do. BTW I personally prefer some sort of instructor-led workout because it gives you something to follow rather than just "do X exercises Y number of times". 

 

I'd say that it should be more than just planks and hollow holds. If nothing else, just doing those every day will get TERRIBLY boring, but also probably won't give as much help in some other areas that are necessary. Obliques are one that I think probably come into play (disclosure: I don't know much about golf biomechanics) because of the need to remain stable throughout rotation/tilt. High planks and hollow holds won't help much there as far as I know. Things like side planks, oblique heel taps, and Russian twists are probably things you need to add.

 

So I'd (if you prefer YouTube) do a search for "10 minute beginner core workout" and try a few of them to find ones that you like and hit a bunch of different movements--and then just bookmark the ones you like and rotate through them daily. As you get stronger, you can branch out to things that aren't labeled "beginner". Or perhaps ones that are listed as being "for golfers" which might be more targeted... But I'd work on building up based on the beginner stuff first.

 

Oh, and work on flexibility/mobility via stretching-type exercises too. Again you can find routines via YouTube if you prefer that to self-directed workouts. 

 

How much will this help for golf? I don't know. But improved core strength and flexibility/mobility is NEVER a bad thing, right? 

 

[PedronNiall]

Cheat mode for good core strength on the ab side is bicycles. They're all I do aside from strict form during pushups because it's easy to get a good burn across your entire ab area in only a few minutes. 

 

 

I used to do planks, crunches, side bends with dumbbells, all that jazz, but I've fallen back to only this and not had any loss of power or mobility. Can always sprinkle in other things if you feel the need. 

[fjk]

Which video are you referring to? And your description is confusing... what is your tendency instead? Butt too far back or too far forward?

Edited January 29 by fjk

[skim4]

1 minute ago, fjk said:

Which video are you referring to?

 

[KD1]

1 hour ago, Sean124 said:

counterbalance 

 

Maybe it's more of an intent issue than a strength issue?

 

Sean124 used the key word that I had in mind reading your post. Malaska has a drill he has his students do where they continuously swing a heavy range basket over their head with a rope. The idea being to show the student how the the legs/hips work to counterbalance the mass of the basket, which to him is similar to counterbalancing the force of the clubhead. Picture a hammer throw.

 

What if you approached the golf swing by imagining that you're swinging a 15lb clubhead?

 

I'll shut up now and let the adults talk.

Edited January 29 by KD1

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, KD1 said:

What if you approached the golf swing by imagining that you're swinging a 15lb clubhead?

 

I think he's talking about his hips being farther back than he wants at setup. Even holding a club that weighs 15 pounds would only exaggerate that a bit.

[mgoblue83]

You are worrying about something that doesn't look to be a problem in your swing.

 

I like your action. What exactly are you trying to change?

[skim4]

Just now, mgoblue83 said:

You are worrying about something that doesn't look to be a problem in your swing.

 

I like your action. What exactly are you trying to change?

Thanks. This was a very unstable - legs almost shaking in set up swing. If I dont do that my butt sticks out too far and then my hips move towards the golf ball in the back swing or they dont rotate enough. 

With more athletic set up it is easier for me to get my right hip backwards in the backswing. @glk gave me good advice on this months ago too but Ive never claimed to have good reading comprehension. 

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

You are worrying about something that doesn't look to be a problem in your swing.

 

I agree:

 

[mgoblue83]

Just now, skim4 said:

Thanks. This was a very unstable - legs almost shaking in set up swing. If I dont do that my butt sticks out too far and then my hips move towards the golf ball in the back swing or they dont rotate enough. 

With more athletic set up it is easier for me to get my right hip backwards in the backswing. @glk gave me good advice on this months ago too but Ive never claimed to have good reading comprehension. 

 

You shouldn't be forcing yourself into positions that are uncomfortable or restrict movement. You just want a comfortable posture with as little tension as possible to allow yourself to move freely during the swing. I'm a big fan of setup posture being a little more upright like yours to give yourself room to get the butt back, squat and rotate during the swing. You have good action - don't ruin it by trying to hit certain positions that may not be right for your body proportions. 

[KD1]

16 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I think he's talking about his hips being farther back than he wants at setup. Even holding a club that weighs 15 pounds would only exaggerate that a bit.

 

You're correct and I had this poster confused with someone else from another post last week that was asking about core strength.

 

Don't mind me.

[skim4]

19 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I agree:

 

This is because I am in the harder to get to set up. I am very unstable feeling in this position. I agree that in this position my hips move better but it is very hard to stay in this position.

I feel this is a good set up but my core just needs work to make it not feel "unstable".

 

If you can look at my post history youll see one last week in my normal set up where my hips move towards the golf ball. You actually did the same lines but they moved towards the ball. 

 

 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, skim4 said:

This is because I am in the harder to get to set up. I am very unstable feeling in this position. I agree that in this position my hips move better but it is very hard to stay in this position.

I feel this is a good set up but my core just needs work to make it not feel "unstable".

 

Yeah… That's why I said it's tough to do stuff like this over the Internet.

 

I think sometimes it's a matter of tension. When you're "trying" to do something, you're often trying to "make" your muscles do something, pose in some way, move in some way.

 

If you set up with your heels 2-3" from a wall and bend over, and let your knees crack… and relax, I think you'll find it's easier to stand there. Your butt can lightly be touching the wall, just don't lean on it.

 

2 minutes ago, skim4 said:

If you can look at my post history youll see one last week in my normal set up where my hips move towards the golf ball. You actually did the same lines but they moved towards the ball.

 

😄 Okay, then it's probably something worth trying to do a bit, maybe.

[plindner99]

Someone has already posted it but I can’t seem to find where you can reply to comments. I’m very very new here. And if this isn’t what you’re referring to, they have more videos about your hips and your feet and everything they do and mean to your swing. These guys are the best to watch if your try to change something. It’s actually incredible. Sorry for posting the same video again and if I’m wrong. 
 

 

Edited January 30 by plindner99
Forgot video

[skim4]

10 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

You are worrying about something that doesn't look to be a problem in your swing.

 

I like your action. What exactly are you trying to change?

I find when I get in the better position my hips move better. Like in the video posted. I’m just finding the position alittle  unstable because I lack any kind of core. But 5 days of setting up on a wall has helped! 

[MonteScheinblum]

38 minutes ago, skim4 said:

I find when I get in the better position my hips move better. Like in the video posted. I’m just finding the position alittle  unstable because I lack any kind of core. But 5 days of setting up on a wall has helped! 

This is the bane of the amateur existence.  This feels…….(followed by a negative sensation).

 

The irony is doing it the “right” way is easier and requires less flexibility.

 

This feels powerless……usually faster.

This feels weird/awkward….usually looks less awkward

It feels unstable……usually more stable.

I’m not flexible or strong enough to do that…..usually the current pattern requires more strength and flexibility.

Edited January 30 by MonteScheinblum

[Trippels]

Probably neurological (i.e you're not used to it or not understanding it correctly), rather than physical like lacking core strength or similar. I'm sure there's plenty of old pros who do it perfectly with cores made of jello.

[hammersia]

18 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

Cheat mode for good core strength on the ab side is bicycles. They're all I do aside from strict form during pushups because it's easy to get a good burn across your entire ab area in only a few minutes. 

 

 

I used to do planks, crunches, side bends with dumbbells, all that jazz, but I've fallen back to only this and not had any loss of power or mobility. Can always sprinkle in other things if you feel the need. 

That was a bit of a shock, thought it was a video of me for a moment there.

[skim4]

15 hours ago, Trippels said:

Probably neurological (i.e you're not used to it or not understanding it correctly), rather than physical like lacking core strength or similar. I'm sure there's plenty of old pros who do it perfectly with cores made of jello.

Yea, I think its cause I've never been in the position before. After 6 days of setting up against a wall for more than an hour a day (not all at once) I can get in the position moderately well now. But my entire core is very sore. I know muscles don't build that quickly... but they are all sore as heck. 

 

The first two days my legs were shaking. Now they are pretty stable. Just with some core burn. So maybe my muscles just had to get used to being in a position they have never been in before. 

 

Much easier for my hips to work properly in this new position. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, skim4 said:

Yea, I think its cause I've never been in the position before. After 6 days of setting up against a wall for more than an hour a day (not all at once) I can get in the position moderately well now. But my entire core is very sore. I know muscles don't build that quickly... but they are all sore as heck. 

 

The first two days my legs were shaking. Now they are pretty stable. Just with some core burn. So maybe my muscles just had to get used to being in a position they have never been in before. 

 

Much easier for my hips to work properly in this new position. 

 

One thing that helps with the soreness is...

 

...more core work. 

 

A lot of the soreness tends to be delayed-onset muscle soreness (DOMS). If you don't work a muscle very often, then you DO work it, you'll often get very sore in the 24-48 hour range after the exercise. If you look at this soreness as a reason to avoid working those muscles for another week, well, you'll get the same DOMS a week later. 

 

As I mentioned upthread, my plan for 2024 is daily core. It's actually one of the muscle groups that IMHO you don't have to rest between workouts, as generally you're not working to failure the way you would with an aggressive weightlifting regimen. The entire first week of January my abs were sore as hell. But once I got through the first week, now I'm doing daily core workouts and don't feel sore at all. With weights, if I'm going heavier I'll be sore no matter what, but with core, it's pretty easy to do a 10-minute workout every day, build up that strength, and be 100% ready to come back the next day. 

 

BTW hollow holds are HARD. No shame for having trouble. While you build up, try starting in tabletop position, and extending both legs straight and bringing them back in. Gradually getting to the point where you leave them extended for a 1-count before retracting, then build up to a 2-count, etc. and keep working up to the point where you can leave them extended a full 30 seconds.