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Low Bounce lob wedge


MoetheGoat

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Tight lies , firm conditions 

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Was told by vokey rep that JT, who uses high bounce sand and low in the lob, has really good hands and can deliver the club at various angles, shallow, steep, etc. He simply has the skills to make different bounces work and benefit from their different qualities.

 

It gives a “wedge matrix” that allows more options/different shots.

 

However, as it was also mentioned above, vokey rep also said that a firm course did make JT interested in getting into a low bounce lob in the first place.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, MartinMertens said:

Was told by vokey rep that JT, who uses high bounce sand and low in the lob, has really good hands and can deliver the club at various angles, shallow, steep, etc. He simply has the skills to make different bounces work and benefit from their different qualities.

This is your answer.  Elite level athletes possess hand-eye coordination that few amateurs can fathom.  Their ability to control the bottom of the arc of their swing is other worldly.  The high bounce 56 is used in different sand types or in a really fluffy lie, muddy area, etc....  The low bounce 60 is for tight lies around the green and in firm sand.  

 

Ball first contact....hitting the little ball before the big ball..

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I have always thought the wedge setup has to be extremely versatile. Wedges aren't really about distance in the same way as other irons. Everyone knows (for instance) their general 5i distance, as opposed to their 8i distance, but with wedges you can generally use all of them from 120 in. The intention with wedges is having pretty precise short game control from a wide variety of lies/conditions - from high, damp greenside rough or powdery, fluffy sand (want a lot of bounce), to short, tight, sometimes asphalt hard fairways you want to pinch it off of with a 1/4 swing to check it up on the green (you want almost no bounce at all), and everything in between. 

 

So I wouldn't necessarily focus on the terms LW, SW, GW, PW. Almost all of the pros play either three or four wedges, but they think it terms of loft/bounce, not terms (a guy with a 64* "LW" is probably have going to have a GW with the same loft as another guy's LW). So I wouldn't think as much about any individual wedge as I would the total wedge menu. Almost all of them will have one or more wedges with high bounce, and one or more with a low-medium bounce. Which ones are which are more of a personal preference. 

 

 

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Lob wedge is a workhorse for the tour guys. They need it to do a lot of things, but the one thing they can’t have is the inability to open the face and have that leading edge sit tight to the ground. Those guys have hands most of us can’t imagine but they also use bounce properly. Not to mention the bounce number on the clubs are somewhat arbitrary and don’t often represent the true bounce. 

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Just makes it more versatile. If you’ve played at any tour tracks, the fairways are mown very tight. To hit open face shots into an elevated green from a collection area, you need a low bounce wedge. Higher bounce is more forgiving but also limits the shots you can hit.

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60/4 and 56/14 (or 12) has been my standard combo for decades. I'm no tour pro, but I do think this is a very useful, versatile combo for any decent golfer who is willing to practice little bit.

 

Originally, I got the 60/4 for primarily one reason - wet/hard/thin sand bunker shots. You know those - where it's so dense and hard - but mostly thin - that a high bounce wedge has a  better than average chance of skipping upwards and blading the ball right in the teeth. No bueno.

 

As I got familiar with that club, found it to be pretty darn versatile for a number of situations and it is now used well beyond that original purpose.

 

I'm not in the camp who believes a 60 is an exceptionally hard club to hit, provided you give it a bit of attention in your practice routine. Some here think the 60 should only be wielded by the shamans and high priests of the golf world. (Personally, I think the 3wood is much closer to that characterization.) But I also think the 60 can be overused and get some golfers into trouble they would have easily avoided with a lower lofted club. For me, I prefer my 56 for most mundane pitching/chipping duties, but I won't hesitate to use the 60 if the situation demands it.

 

 

 

 

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Low bounce 4°-8°, is used for tight lies around greens, which is common on tour.  Typically, the leading edge sits closer to the ground and maybe has trailing edge relief as well as the heel relief, making opening the face easy.  The reason I use an M58/8°, and perhaps getting a "T."  Also, I straddle conditions by having more bounce on 52/12°.

 

Whether someone uses low or high bounce is simply a preference and more likely what he/she learned with.  Moreover, depends on how much time a person has for practice, which is definitely recommended for low bounce. 

 

Back in the 90s when I took up golf, I was handed a 2°-5° progressive bounce wedge, been using low bounce ever since.   

When Tiger was learning golf, all he had was a 56°.  Though he has a 60°, he still prefers that 56.



 

Edited by Pepperturbo
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Been following along with the responses and want to thank everyone for the insight.  Joined a new club last year with much firmer and tighter fairway conditions than what I had been used to.  Have gamed a 10 degree bounce, M grind Vokey 60 degree forever, and reading the responses here have made me consider trialing a lower bounce 60 degree.  

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Go for it.  But be advised, 60° and lower range with 4' bounce takes considerably more practice time to be proficient = much less room for error.

Edited by Pepperturbo
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I also carry a low bounce 60 and high bounce sand wedge. Had the LW forever and kept it out of my bag. After spending a good bit of time practicing with it on the pitching green, it’s probably the most effective practice time I’ve spent in a long time. SW for rough and fluffy sand. LW for hard sand and tight lies (which are plentiful on my home course with raised greens everywhere). Once I learned how to release the LW properly and practiced distance control, it’s a massive improvement for me.

 

you don’t need to be a pro, but you do have to practice until you feel confident with it.

Edited by bgfgolf
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Thank you guys for the insight. I’m Learning a lot. In term of club selection around the green, I’ve heard a lot of tour pros say that the 60° is their go to in any situation around the green. Rough, Fairway, etc. So are they just so skilled that they can the the lower bounce out of a variety of lies, conditions? Basically, can they still produce quality shots out of fluffy areas with that low bounce? Although many have a high bounce 56. Every year i go to my local tour event I see pro on the chipping green with one club: Their 60.

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Y’all gotta help me! I placed an order for a set of sm10s. Struggling with my purchase on my lob wedge. I used the 56/14 in sm9 and loved it. My bunker game is great and good for me on full shots. A little steep so I tend to go higher bounce wedges. I play in the northeast so can be soft. I purchased the 60/12D grind for the sake of being steep. I strictly use 60 for around greens and specialty shots. 

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My flea market acquired 60', used to be about 10 deg bounce and doped well into the F swingweight range(previous owner was also a tinkerer). It was pretty good for short and quick stop sand shots(I really didn't want that). I wanted to learn to flop. I tinkered with and put the grinder to that that 60' until it probably now has less than 4 deg bounce, and is at E6 swingweight. Well, this thing now pitches with precision and is a mean flopping machine. I really needed more kung fu around sticky kikuyu green complexes...and I found it. I will shed a tear if I ever lose it.

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15 hours ago, MoetheGoat said:

Thank you guys for the insight. I’m Learning a lot. In term of club selection around the green, I’ve heard a lot of tour pros say that the 60° is their go to in any situation around the green. Rough, Fairway, etc. So are they just so skilled that they can the the lower bounce out of a variety of lies, conditions? Basically, can they still produce quality shots out of fluffy areas with that low bounce? Although many have a high bounce 56. Every year i go to my local tour event I see pro on the chipping green with one club: Their 60.

The difference between pros and amateurs is the amount of practice time they put in using LW.  It's true, Pro's use LW for more shots than most amateurs, mainly due to bias and or green speeds. 

 

 

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Anyone have any advice regarding carrying multiple lob wedges with different bounces/grinds and changing them out depending on the course? 

 

I play a varied number of courses throughout the course of the year, my new home club being a very firm/fast/tight variety and many of the public options around town being more of the more slow and lush variety.  I carry a 10 degree M grind 60 that I feel has become very one dimensional in my use of it with chipping and pitching.  Quite frankly, I'm very nervous about hitting anything high and soft with it from the firm and tight lies that exist at my home club.  

 

I'm debating gaming a low bounce option at my home club and leaving the 10 degree M for the public courses.  Someone talk me into or out of this idea?

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People make all sorts of strange choices about clubs.  IMO, one-dimensional use is what you're doing with that M 60'/10.  You would better suite your game by learning how to use that club effectively, on all sorts of turf conditions, thus squelching your feelings of anxiety.  The other problem that will happen is at some juncture, you will forget the club when you need it most. 

 

My way, I don't need to concern myself with an additional club, but necessitates practice.  My 46' PW has progressive bounce, and SM9 M58/8 LW and F52/12, regardless of conditions, have a low or medium bounce club.  Whatever you do, good luck with it.

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Right now I'm carrying a 60 degree and a 52 degree with 8° of bounce. The one place where that can be the biggest challenge is in the sand. I have learned how to be somewhat effective with the 60° in most other conditions, but anxiety many times gets the better of me around the green and I guff it all up. 😄 

Still, if I feel I need a high bounce wedge I can just pull out my 46° PW at 14° of bounce and have at it. I'd simply prefer not to use that one in the sand.

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I carry wedges based on the types of shots I like to hit. IMO that's what pros do as well and why you see the various loft/bounce combinations in their bags. My 56/8M is my workhorse. I practice the most with it and have confidence in it.  The 60T plays very much like the 56/8M and that's why I like it. Still the 60T is basically a specialty club and if I haven't been playing or practicing much, it stays in the trunk.

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The lower bounce lob wedges are really good for those short shots around the green from some rough. The club goes through the grass much easier allowing you to play those softer shots from bad lies. It’s also your get out of jail card for those really nasty tight lies and the best option for wet sand. 
 

56 with a higher bounce is good for most bunker play and for tighter lies where you might want to hit a lower spinner. The extra bounce helps keep the strike lower on the face. 

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Pros choose low bounce because they play probably >80% of their shots around the green (say inside 40 yards) with an open face. Pros choose the 60 degree opened up around the green so much because it allows them to put some speed into the shot. Speed creates spin. Even if you see less pros opting for maximum spin on short 20-40 yards shots, they're still playing a lot of spin compared to what you'll see recreational golfers doing. They're also playing significantly faster greens. 

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On 2/24/2024 at 4:23 PM, MoetheGoat said:

Thank you guys for the insight. I’m Learning a lot. In term of club selection around the green, I’ve heard a lot of tour pros say that the 60° is their go to in any situation around the green. Rough, Fairway, etc. So are they just so skilled that they can the the lower bounce out of a variety of lies, conditions? Basically, can they still produce quality shots out of fluffy areas with that low bounce? Although many have a high bounce 56. Every year i go to my local tour event I see pro on the chipping green with one club: Their 60.

The one thing to remember is that the pro's get brand new clubs for free whenever they want AND they are playing absolutely pristine golf courses. When they played in a normal winter course for us (Pebble Beach during the monsoon) they have to change equipment. They always have tight lies on fairway and fringe, the bunkers are always filled and easy to hit out of. It's a slightly different game equipment-wise. 

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13 minutes ago, Airjenks said:

When they played in a normal winter course for us (Pebble Beach during the monsoon) they have to change equipment.

 

The pros that are prominent low bounce players did not change their lob wedges in those events. Same with torrey, which I play weekly and has been absolute slop conditions, they don't change their low bounce lob wedge. 

 

Of course you will see some change here and there and especially more in the Florida swing where they have to take on grainy bermuda but the well-known low bounce lob guys like Spieth, JT, homa, wyndam, etc did not change their low bounce lob in the slop conditions. 

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23 hours ago, bazzle18 said:

Anyone have any advice regarding carrying multiple lob wedges with different bounces/grinds and changing them out depending on the course? 

 

I play a varied number of courses throughout the course of the year, my new home club being a very firm/fast/tight variety and many of the public options around town being more of the more slow and lush variety.  I carry a 10 degree M grind 60 that I feel has become very one dimensional in my use of it with chipping and pitching.  Quite frankly, I'm very nervous about hitting anything high and soft with it from the firm and tight lies that exist at my home club.  

 

I'm debating gaming a low bounce option at my home club and leaving the 10 degree M for the public courses.  Someone talk me into or out of this idea?

I'm with you on this idea..... I haven't ordered wedges since the TVDs came out (2014ish), so they've got spots worn in the faces and I tell myself they need to replaced soon. I want to try the T and also the K, both pretty much opposite ends of the grind spectrum

 

Our courses stay firm where I'm at in TX, so I'd like to give the low bounce grind a try. I don't think I could get away from my K grind 56 (55) though. Will most likely order a direct replacement in the SM10 for that, then the lower bounce in the 60. 

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Most players have an virtually unused club like a 3W in their bag.  Take that out and play some practice rounds with a low bounce wedge.  Maybe when the course isn't busy. 

Or find a chipping green to practice.  Learn to read lies!

 

Hitting the same shot over and over again is easy.

The challenge is to be able to consistently put the ball on the green from anywhere.

Edited by ShortGolfer
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Fast, hard, grainy conditions are where the low bounce 60° shines.  These conditions are very typical on tour.  For my region, I find it preferable to pair with a high bounce 50/56° for soggy and soft conditions. 

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