Biggest bang for the buck: Paddy's baseball swing drill!

[RoyalMustang]

I watched the Paddy's footwork video a few weeks ago hadn't yet seen the baseball swing he displayed. No coach has ever shown me that, even though I've always struggled with timing and hips. I probably hit 150 balls over 3 days using this swing: it's the exaggerated motion that does the trick. As soon as the takeaway starts, the back foot and upper hip is loaded. As the club clears parallel in the swing, I'm already driving off the back foot to stride. By the time I'm at the top, I've reached my stride and am dropping my hips. My hands and torso have a ton of separation from my hips at this point. All I need to do now is continue to drive forward and the rest takes care of itself. You see it in any good baseball swing: one of my favorites is Corbin Carroll as he has such a long stride and generates a ton of rotational power from hip sequencing. Especially as he's 5 foot 8, 160lbs. You just know he could drive a golf ball 350 yards if he wanted to.  

 

The key for me is that motion of stride-drive off the back foot. That forward motion keeps my right gleut back and up, but driving forward, and is key for moving the hips before the torso and to keep me from simply "spinning the hips". It's part 3 of the weight shift R, R hip back and up, weight shift F, Left hip back and up sequence. It's hard to get that exaggerated motion with a static swing. 

 

I even started doing this as part of my pre-shot routine. If my hips are in sync, I'm going to play well. If my hips are "stuck" then it's all arms/torso. It might look funny but the weight shift exaggeration that comes from this drill can't be beaten. Yesterday, I even cleared an average of over 300 yards on our front 9 for the first time. 311/351/293/294 on the 4 driver holes; all fairways. Our course plays upwind/downwind. 

 

I'd love it if someone else could chime in here with video or still photos of what's happening in that sequence. I think the drive forward-shift before the top is poorly understood. As a result, I and most others can get very static and stuck; whereas in reality if we are playing well, opposing forces and space should continue to build throughout the backswing. 

Edited March 5 by RoyalMustang

[stryper]

13 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

I watched the Paddy's footwork video a few weeks ago hadn't yet seen the baseball swing he displayed. No coach has ever shown me that, even though I've always struggled with timing and hips. I probably hit 150 balls over 3 days using this swing: it's the exaggerated motion that does the trick. As soon as the takeaway starts, the back foot and upper hip is loaded. As the club clears parallel in the swing, I'm already driving off the back foot to stride. By the time I'm at the top, I've reached my stride and am dropping my hips. My hands and torso have a ton of separation from my hips at this point. All I need to do now is continue to drive forward and the rest takes care of itself. You see it in any good baseball swing: one of my favorites is Corbin Carroll as he has such a long stride and generates a ton of rotational power from hip sequencing. Especially as he's 5 foot 8, 160lbs. You just know he could drive a golf ball 350 yards if he wanted to.  

 

The key for me is that motion of stride-drive off the back foot. That forward motion keeps my right gleut back and up, but driving forward, and is key for moving the hips before the torso and to keep me from simply "spinning the hips". It's part 3 of the weight shift R, R hip back and up, weight shift F, Left hip back and up sequence. It's hard to get that exaggerated motion with a static swing. 

 

I even started doing this as part of my pre-shot routine. If my hips are in sync, I'm going to play well. If my hips are "stuck" then it's all arms/torso. It might look funny but the weight shift exaggeration that comes from this drill can't be beaten. Yesterday, I even cleared an average of over 300 yards on our front 9 for the first time. 311/351/293/294 on the 4 driver holes; all fairways. Our course plays upwind/downwind. 

 

I'd love it if someone else could chime in here with video or still photos of what's happening in that sequence. I think the drive forward-shift before the top is poorly understood. As a result, I and most others can get very static and stuck; whereas in reality if we are playing well, opposing forces and space should continue to build throughout the backswing. 

I’m not an expert, but I’ve always thought there was more of a correlation between a baseball swing and a golf swing than some golf instructors tend to lead on.  Of course, that applies to hockey slapshots too…except for the part where they deliberately hit it fat. 😎

[MonteScheinblum]

There’s actually more correlation to throwing a ball.

 

That’s why pitchers and QB’s are better golfers than hitters.  A baseball swing is a slice.  Throwing a baseball and a football is a draw.  A golf swing release is most likely a pop up in baseball.

 

Now, if you want to correlate swinging the club level at waist/chest high, then there are some helpful ideas.  

[GolfSwang]

38 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

There’s actually more correlation to throwing a ball.

 

That’s why pitchers and QB’s are better golfers than hitters.  A baseball swing is a slice.  Throwing a baseball and a football is a draw.  A golf swing release is most likely a pop up in baseball.

 

Now, if you want to correlate swinging the club level at waist/chest high, then there are some helpful ideas.  

 

Interesting!

Monte, continuing with the throwing comp: in theory where should the golfer be directing the throw to ensure a proper release (with good compression/shaft lean etc)? At the ball? Intermediate point ahead of the ball? 

 

Do you see the golf swing as more of a submariner/side arm throw? Underhand? Skipping a stone? Overhand (with right side bend)? 

 

As someone who grew up playing baseball (including a bit of pitching) I always appreciate any sort of throwing feel/analogy. 

[MonteScheinblum]

3 minutes ago, GolfSwang said:

 

Interesting!

Monte, continuing with the throwing comp: in theory where should the golfer be directing the throw to ensure a proper release (with good compression/shaft lean etc)? At the ball? Intermediate point ahead of the ball? 

 

Do you see the golf swing as more of a submariner/side arm throw? Underhand? Skipping a stone? Overhand (with right side bend)? 

 

As someone who grew up playing baseball (including a bit of pitching) I always appreciate any sort of throwing feel/analogy. 

Pitchers are taught to stay closed longer and obviously release the throwing wrist.

 

Hitters are tight to get open early and hold the trial worst angle.  Funny enough that’s 100 years of failed golf instruction.

 

In a golf swing there are actually 2 throws.  With 12 as the target, throw one is to 8 early in downswing.  Throw 2 is toward 12 and maybe 1150 is you perceive after impact, from shaft parallel before impact to shaft parallel after.

[Ty_Webb]

Aside from anything else, the bat is indifferent to the angle it's at, so the batter can be in this position at impact:

 

 

If you had your hands in that position at impact with a golf swing, you'd be hitting it with the heel and the clubface pointing 90* right

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

There’s actually more correlation to throwing a ball.

 

That’s why pitchers and QB’s are better golfers than hitters.  A baseball swing is a slice.  Throwing a baseball and a football is a draw.  A golf swing release is most likely a pop up in baseball.

 

Now, if you want to correlate swinging the club level at waist/chest high, then there are some helpful ideas.  

Yeah it's fascinating how consistent the mechanics of good baseball hitters tend to be. They have tons of speed and either square one up and bomb it 330y or it's a "four fairways over" slice. 

[FormerBigDaddy]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

There’s actually more correlation to throwing a ball.

 

That’s why pitchers and QB’s are better golfers than hitters.  A baseball swing is a slice.  Throwing a baseball and a football is a draw.  A golf swing release is most likely a pop up in baseball.

 

Now, if you want to correlate swinging the club level at waist/chest high, then there are some helpful ideas.  

 

This was true in the past, but now I disagree.  Today's hitting coaches are ALL about launch angle and exit velocity.  They are swinging much more up on the ball now in baseball than ever which matches a golf swing much more closely than before.  Historically hitters were taught to swing down on the ball in baseball which would create an OTT move in golf, now they are posting up on the front leg (like golf) and using right side bend (like golf) to launch it higher and harder using their bodies.  Modern baseball players are going to make great golfers.  A few adjustments to wrist conditions and boom.

Edited March 5 by FormerBigDaddy

[phizzy30]

31 minutes ago, stryper said:

I’m not an expert, but I’ve always thought there was more of a correlation between a baseball swing and a golf swing than some golf instructors tend to lead on.  Of course, that applies to hockey slapshots too…except for the part where they deliberately hit it fat. 😎

Slap shot is more similar to the golf swing compared to the baseball bat swing.  I have a client that plays college hockey and he's a phenomenal golfer.  Legit scratch with 120+ ss.  He's better and faster than the minor league guy I used to train. 

[phizzy30]

Just now, FormerBigDaddy said:

 

This was true in the past, but now I disagree.  Today's hitting coaches are ALL about launch angle and exit velocity.  They are swinging much more up on the ball now in baseball than ever which matches a golf swing much more closely than before.  Historically hitters were taught to swing down on the ball in baseball which would create an OTT move in golf, now they are posting up on the front leg (like golf) and using right side bend (like golf) to launch it higher and harder using their bodies.  Modern baseball players are going to make great golfers.  A few adjustments to wrist conditions and boom.

Yeah, well hitting up on the ball in baseball is also a recipe for low batting average unless your name is Ken Griffey Jr., lol.  Modern baseball players are taught hand speed nowadays which is why PED use isn't nearly as rampant as it used to be.  Balco anyone?   

[Valtiel]

15 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Slap shot is more similar to the golf swing compared to the baseball bat swing.  I have a client that plays college hockey and he's a phenomenal golfer.  Legit scratch with 120+ ss.  He's better and faster than the minor league guy I used to train. 

100% for two big reasons. Not only is it training a hitting motion pointed at something on the ground that is more or less stationary in relation to your body and the subsequent angles/tilts that need to be maintained to accomplish this, but there is also virtually always an intended target in mind which is huge. No matter how similar the mechanics can be superficially like @FormerBigDaddy noted, you're still hitting something in a completely different physical location based on it coming towards you with little concern where it goes as long it's "up" and "fast". I think elite baseball hitters could potentially make good competitive long drivers, but hockey players and pitchers are always going to make better *golfers* on average. I reckon halfway between those are cricket batsmen. 

Edited March 5 by Valtiel

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, Ty_Webb said:

Aside from anything else, the bat is indifferent to the angle it's at, so the batter can be in this position at impact:

 

 

If you had your hands in that position at impact with a golf swing, you'd be hitting it with the heel and the clubface pointing 90* right

Also, hitters have the bat way back in the trail palm, which delays the trail arm getting on top of the lead arm, as that would create a pop up or dribbler.  The trail hand of the golf club is more in the fingers because again, a good baseball swing is a slice in golf.

[Sean124]

30 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

100% for two big reasons. Not only is it training a hitting motion pointed at something on the ground that is more or less stationary in relation to your body and the subsequent angles/tilts that need to be maintained to accomplish this, but there is also virtually always an intended target in mind which is huge. No matter how similar the mechanics can be superficially like @FormerBigDaddy noted, you're still hitting something in a completely different physical location based on it coming towards you with little concern where it goes as long it's "up" and "fast". I think elite baseball hitters could potentially make good competitive long drivers, but hockey players and pitchers are always going to make better *golfers* on average. I reckon halfway between those are cricket batsmen. 

I remember someone asking an NHL player why hockey players are good at golf. Is it the hand-eye coordination, etc?

 

”We get summers off.”

[MonteScheinblum]

2 minutes ago, Sean124 said:

I remember someone asking an NHL player why hockey players are good at golf. Is it the hand-eye coordination, etc?

 

”We get summers off.”

One issue.  Most hockey players move their pelvis correctly because they understand the force the trial foot puts on the ground.  The Scheffler move.  Most ams try and drive their right hip toward the target.

[Geomane]

3 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

I watched the Paddy's footwork video a few weeks ago hadn't yet seen the baseball swing he displayed. No coach has ever shown me that, even though I've always struggled with timing and hips. I probably hit 150 balls over 3 days using this swing: it's the exaggerated motion that does the trick. As soon as the takeaway starts, the back foot and upper hip is loaded. As the club clears parallel in the swing, I'm already driving off the back foot to stride. By the time I'm at the top, I've reached my stride and am dropping my hips. My hands and torso have a ton of separation from my hips at this point. All I need to do now is continue to drive forward and the rest takes care of itself. You see it in any good baseball swing: one of my favorites is Corbin Carroll as he has such a long stride and generates a ton of rotational power from hip sequencing. Especially as he's 5 foot 8, 160lbs. You just know he could drive a golf ball 350 yards if he wanted to.  

 

The key for me is that motion of stride-drive off the back foot. That forward motion keeps my right gleut back and up, but driving forward, and is key for moving the hips before the torso and to keep me from simply "spinning the hips". It's part 3 of the weight shift R, R hip back and up, weight shift F, Left hip back and up sequence. It's hard to get that exaggerated motion with a static swing. 

 

I even started doing this as part of my pre-shot routine. If my hips are in sync, I'm going to play well. If my hips are "stuck" then it's all arms/torso. It might look funny but the weight shift exaggeration that comes from this drill can't be beaten. Yesterday, I even cleared an average of over 300 yards on our front 9 for the first time. 311/351/293/294 on the 4 driver holes; all fairways. Our course plays upwind/downwind. 

 

I'd love it if someone else could chime in here with video or still photos of what's happening in that sequence. I think the drive forward-shift before the top is poorly understood. As a result, I and most others can get very static and stuck; whereas in reality if we are playing well, opposing forces and space should continue to build throughout the backswing. 

Post a link to the video please

[kenoli22]

2 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

There’s actually more correlation to throwing a ball.

 

That’s why pitchers and QB’s are better golfers than hitters.  A baseball swing is a slice.  Throwing a baseball and a football is a draw.  A golf swing release is most likely a pop up in baseball.

 

Now, if you want to correlate swinging the club level at waist/chest high, then there are some helpful ideas.  

Along with Monte, everyone needs to be following speedgolfrob on instagram.  Even if it's just for the entertainment value.  He's big into "skipping the stone".

[johnrobison]

The "skipping a stone" feel has always felt like a lot of time spent on the trail leg to me.

[Liveonce]

23 minutes ago, kenoli22 said:

Along with Monte, everyone needs to be following speedgolfrob on instagram.  Even if it's just for the entertainment value.  He's big into "skipping the stone".

skipping the stone needs to be retired along with keep your head down. 

[Ty_Webb]

44 minutes ago, Geomane said:

Post a link to the video please

 

I think it's this one: 

 

[stryper]

46 minutes ago, kenoli22 said:

Along with Monte, everyone needs to be following speedgolfrob on instagram.  Even if it's just for the entertainment value.  He's big into "skipping the stone".

I hadn’t seen speedbob’s take on this, but it’s exactly the analogy I was using on a buddy of mine a couple of weeks ago to get him to make a more natural, athletic move through the ball.  Once he conceptualized this, he immediately started hitting it longer and straighter.  Before that, it was like watching him club baby seals and the ball was going nowhere good. 🦭🦭🦭

[stryper]

29 minutes ago, Liveonce said:

skipping the stone needs to be retired along with keep your head down. 

Not necessarily…different ideas/feels sometimes work better for others.  

[Ty_Webb]

9 minutes ago, stryper said:

Not necessarily…different ideas/feels sometimes work better for others.  

 

Exactly. I bet if Monte has 50 people come through his lesson tee in a week and they all have the same issue, he might have to come up with 10-12 (this is a pure guess, but I'll bet it's not 3-4 and it's obviously not 50) different feels for them to actually get it.

[kenoli22]

42 minutes ago, Liveonce said:

skipping the stone needs to be retired along with keep your head down. 

The entertainment values is worth the watch whether or not you agree with him.

[stryper]

4 minutes ago, kenoli22 said:

The entertainment values is worth the watch whether or not you agree with him.

Right.  It was entertaining to watch my friend start striping it (relatively speaking) and smiling as he did it. 

[Nels55]

I believe that one and possibly the most important reason that pitchers are often better golfers than hitters because they tend to think differently.  It takes a special mentality to be a pitcher and that mentality is more suited to golf.  Another thing is that all pitchers hit growing up and all hitters throw and throw a lot even the DH's probably keep their arms in shape.  Also pitchers have a lot more days off and the ones who are really good post baseball careers often spent a lot of time golfing on off days.  And one last point is that the best former baseball player turned golfer was Sam Byrd who was an outfielder but not a great hitter.  He was defensive late inning replacement for Babe Ruth and was known as "Babe Ruth's legs". 

 

LOL simply my opinion...

[iacas]

6 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

There’s actually more correlation to throwing a ball.

 

Was going to say the same thing.

 

6 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

That’s why pitchers and QB’s are better golfers than hitters.  A baseball swing is a slice.  Throwing a baseball and a football is a draw.  A golf swing release is most likely a pop up in baseball.

 

That and they have a lot more time off… 😉

 

5 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Hitters are tight to get open early and hold the trial worst angle.

 

Yep. The sweet spot is also on the axis, and as noted, they hit the ball with the heel of the golf club, effectively.

 

4 hours ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

This was true in the past, but now I disagree.Today's hitting coaches are ALL about launch angle and exit velocity.  They are swinging much more up on the ball now in baseball than ever which matches a golf swing much more closely than before.

 

Nah, it's still not the same: their clubface is still way open and they're hitting on the axis, not learning to square up a face that's off-axis.

 

Completely different (and DJ has a stronger grip than many):

 

[MonteScheinblum]

5 hours ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

 

This was true in the past, but now I disagree.  Today's hitting coaches are ALL about launch angle and exit velocity.  They are swinging much more up on the ball now in baseball than ever which matches a golf swing much more closely than before.  Historically hitters were taught to swing down on the ball in baseball which would create an OTT move in golf, now they are posting up on the front leg (like golf) and using right side bend (like golf) to launch it higher and harder using their bodies.  Modern baseball players are going to make great golfers.  A few adjustments to wrist conditions and boom.

No

[DaveLeeNC]

6 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

There’s actually more correlation to throwing a ball.

 

That’s why pitchers and QB’s are better golfers than hitters.  A baseball swing is a slice.  Throwing a baseball and a football is a draw.  A golf swing release is most likely a pop up in baseball.

 

Now, if you want to correlate swinging the club level at waist/chest high, then there are some helpful ideas.  

IIRC, a number of years ago Tiger took batting practice with some MLB team. He was really struggling and (as I recall) the advice that he got was to 'hit a BIG fade". 

 

dave

[MonteScheinblum]

4 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

IIRC, a number of years ago Tiger took batting practice with some MLB team. He was really struggling and (as I recall) the advice that he got was to 'hit a BIG fade". 

 

dave

Makes sense.  The grip of the trail hand is huge 

[ShimJoonW]

5 hours ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

 

This was true in the past, but now I disagree.  Today's hitting coaches are ALL about launch angle and exit velocity.  They are swinging much more up on the ball now in baseball than ever which matches a golf swing much more closely than before.  Historically hitters were taught to swing down on the ball in baseball which would create an OTT move in golf, now they are posting up on the front leg (like golf) and using right side bend (like golf) to launch it higher and harder using their bodies.  Modern baseball players are going to make great golfers.  A few adjustments to wrist conditions and boom.