How to deal with losing your game. *videos included*

[Valtiel]

@kobe123 furnished me with some older videos when the swing was feeling better and I wanted to share the differences I noticed here and leave it open to input from others:



Big picture, the main thing i'm seeing here is a big difference in right hip movement and how it's leading to the hands getting overly deep, which then leads to steepness later in transition. Note above how in the right swing you're more sat back into/loaded on your right leg, whereas the newer swing sees you both locking that right leg more and basically just "standing" on it as opposed to loading into it, is that makes sense. It's less stable and athletic, and it seems to come with your hands working too deep (left) as noted by the orange line.




This gets you a little more floaty and across the line at the top of the "newer" swing and you aren't able to shallow as well in transition, coming down noticeably steeper than the old swing.

This same pattern exists in the old vs. new comp of your iron swings:



The same problem to the same degree for the same reasons. Bang on plane in the old swing; steeper and more above plane in the "new".

IMO it comes down the changes in lower body rotation and the knock on effect they are having in your backswing path, length, and what that is allowing for in transition.

[MK7Golf21]

From what I remember you have taken lessons with AMG etc in the past. I would go back and revisit those. It’s easy to want to throw out another $500 an hour lesson from a top instructor when all you need to do is review previous lessons and check to make sure you aren’t doing the same thing. More than likely it’s the same issue. 
 

just for reference, I agree with virtuoso. You get your hands pretty deep early in backswing and stand close to the ball. Not really a good combo because everything gets stuck behind and get all kinds of misses. Can play good golf when timing is on though.

[kobe123]

51 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

From what I remember you have taken lessons with AMG etc in the past. I would go back and revisit those. It’s easy to want to throw out another $500 an hour lesson from a top instructor when all you need to do is review previous lessons and check to make sure you aren’t doing the same thing. More than likely it’s the same issue. 
 

just for reference, I agree with virtuoso. You get your hands pretty deep early in backswing and stand close to the ball. Not really a good combo because everything gets stuck behind and get all kinds of misses. Can play good golf when timing is on though.

 

 

Oddly enough this was one of things we hit on, was not locking the right leg out. I didn't realize I was going back to this.

 

We hit on the following things:

 

1. Flatter shoulder turn

2. Bending more from the waist, not a squatty look.

3. Not locking out the right leg

4. Not straightening the right leg in transition.

[kobe123]

@virtuoso

@Valtiel

@MK7Golf21

 

Figured you’d find this interesting 

[kobe123]

Been working on getting more hinge and less of the left arm across the chest.

 

Here are some updated videos.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[Valtiel]

On 4/16/2024 at 7:34 AM, kobe123 said:

Been working on getting more hinge and less of the left arm across the chest.

 

Here are some updated videos.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Looks pretty good! How is it feeling?

Hand depth is back within a "neutral" range there, the only thing that *maybe* could be tweaked there is when you're setting your right hand as it's maybe a fraction late. This will depend largely on your feel though, and while not really an issue with shorter clubs like this IMO it can become one of those things that creeps into longer clubs and adds an element of potential floatiness and instability to the club:



It's mostly the last frame there i'm mildly concerned with. Any time we see a final amount of wrist set being added right at the very end of the backswing, even when slight, it can be a red flag for "float load" kinds of tendencies that can lead to that feeling of instability and "I don't know where the clubhead is" kinds of feelings, which you spoke about previously. 

Ideally all four red lines get offset by one. The first line is pretty flat and i'd argue a little too much, so if in that first frame you had as much right wrist set as the second, the second the same as the third, the third as much as the final frame, and then the final frame ideally would see no change, the goal being to just have that right wrist fully set by the time your backswing is completed and you're ready to transition. That is the only thing i'm seeing here until you can post some longer clubs/swings. 

[kobe123]

4 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Looks pretty good! How is it feeling?

Hand depth is back within a "neutral" range there, the only thing that *maybe* could be tweaked there is when you're setting your right hand as it's maybe a fraction late. This will depend largely on your feel though, and while not really an issue with shorter clubs like this IMO it can become one of those things that creeps into longer clubs and adds an element of potential floatiness and instability to the club:



It's mostly the last frame there i'm mildly concerned with. Any time we see a final amount of wrist set being added right at the very end of the backswing, even when slight, it can be a red flag for "float load" kinds of tendencies that can lead to that feeling of instability and "I don't know where the clubhead is" kinds of feelings, which you spoke about previously. 

Ideally all four red lines get offset by one. The first line is pretty flat and i'd argue a little too much, so if in that first frame you had as much right wrist set as the second, the second the same as the third, the third as much as the final frame, and then the final frame ideally would see no change, the goal being to just have that right wrist fully set by the time your backswing is completed and you're ready to transition. That is the only thing i'm seeing here until you can post some longer clubs/swings. 

 

Getting the club less behind me feels more natural, but I'm constantly working on it. I actually made a hole in one, but it was on a par 3 course. It was the hole in the videos actually. It's around 100-110 yards and I dunked it.

 

I'm trying to hit cuts, but not have a ton of success. I can't get my path negative for the life of me.

 

So you nailed it, I have been feeling like I'm not setting the club fast enough with longer club and it gets long and I lose all my connection.

 

Additionally, I've been hitting the ball to the moon, for 2 reasons, imo. Let me know if you disagree:

1. I think this is partly because of the late set

2. I think I'm not getting to my lead side fast enough. The reason for this, I have a tendency to get my head way in front of the ball. I don't know how to get my weight to my lead side without lunging and getting swipey/digging

 

I will get some longer irons today!

 

Thanks for the reply!

Edited April 19 by kobe123

[Valtiel]

19 hours ago, kobe123 said:

 

Getting the club less behind me feels more natural, but I'm constantly working on it. I actually made a hole in one, but it was on a par 3 course. It was the hole in the videos actually. It's around 100-110 yards and I dunked it.

 

I'm trying to hit cuts, but not have a ton of success. I can't get my path negative for the life of me.

 

So you nailed it, I have been feeling like I'm not setting the club fast enough with longer club and it gets long and I lose all my connection.

 

Additionally, I've been hitting the ball to the moon, for 2 reasons, imo. Let me know if you disagree:

1. I think this is partly because of the late set

2. I think I'm not getting to my lead side fast enough. The reason for this, I have a tendency to get my head way in front of the ball. I don't know how to get my weight to my lead side without lunging and getting swipey/digging

 

I will get some longer irons today!

 

Thanks for the reply!

Nice!

Your feelings make sense, and I was thinking about #2 above a bit as well when originally looking at the vids, it's just hard to say for sure without seeing fuller power swings. What I see in this swing though looks like it could be "off" in exactly the same proportions as the wrist setting in that just like you're one frame "late" there per my previous post, you also continuing shifting right about one frame too long before you start moving back to your lead side. Any forced feelings of lunging/sliding like you mentioned increase the later and later you try to shift, because later = less time to do it = more effort exerted more quickly.

As someone that has always struggled with the exact same thing with the same resultant higher than ideal ball flight, I feel like to try to exaggerate these things happening earlier by displacing the entire sequence. I struggle less with the wrists on this and more with the lower half; in order for my small lateral bump + right hip back sequence to happen in time, I feel like the "bump" portion is literally as short as I can possibly make it. If I don't actively and consciously stop the bump this quickly, I get stuck on my trail side. A lifetime of junior golf with bad sequencing made it so I had to work very very hard to unlearn what felt like a "natural" sequence, which for 90%+ of amateurs is a similar "too long spent shifting back, too rushed trying to shift forward" move.

[vernon]

Man you guys are good.

 

Wish I lived nearby......

[kobe123]

On 4/20/2024 at 7:12 AM, Valtiel said:

Nice!

Your feelings make sense, and I was thinking about #2 above a bit as well when originally looking at the vids, it's just hard to say for sure without seeing fuller power swings. What I see in this swing though looks like it could be "off" in exactly the same proportions as the wrist setting in that just like you're one frame "late" there per my previous post, you also continuing shifting right about one frame too long before you start moving back to your lead side. Any forced feelings of lunging/sliding like you mentioned increase the later and later you try to shift, because later = less time to do it = more effort exerted more quickly.

As someone that has always struggled with the exact same thing with the same resultant higher than ideal ball flight, I feel like to try to exaggerate these things happening earlier by displacing the entire sequence. I struggle less with the wrists on this and more with the lower half; in order for my small lateral bump + right hip back sequence to happen in time, I feel like the "bump" portion is literally as short as I can possibly make it. If I don't actively and consciously stop the bump this quickly, I get stuck on my trail side. A lifetime of junior golf with bad sequencing made it so I had to work very very hard to unlearn what felt like a "natural" sequence, which for 90%+ of amateurs is a similar "too long spent shifting back, too rushed trying to shift forward" move.

Do you see any reason why I can’t get my path negative on trackman? 
 

I struggle with a couple things on trackman

 

1. I can’t get my path negative

2. If it ever does it get negative my face is always closed so it’s just a pull

3. Lately, I’ve not been taking a divot and hitting the ball to

the moon 

[MonteScheinblum]

Awfully close to the ball.  Now closer to ball usually means path more left, but that’s so close, you need a really acute understanding on how to move the path left.  

 

[kobe123]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Awfully close to the ball.  Now closer to ball usually means path more left, but that’s so close, you need a really acute understanding on how to move the path left.  

 

I’m will start standing further. 
 

I’m just on the fence of what shot shape to play with my swing. Idk if my swing is a draw or cut swing 

[MonteScheinblum]

4 hours ago, kobe123 said:

I’m will start standing further. 
 

I’m just on the fence of what shot shape to play with my swing. Idk if my swing is a draw or cut swing 

Draw

[BigEx44]

On 3/18/2024 at 1:38 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

I think this is a good call.  When you go to a tour event, the best time to see how to practice when you’re struggling is Friday afternoon.  That’s when everyone who missed the cut is trying to figure it out.  Getting rhythm and sequencing down.  You going down a technical path with this swing won’t help at this time, IMO.

 

If a 100 meter track sprinter gets his stride off, he doesn’t work on changing it by running the 100 as fast as he can.  He does it monotonously jogging around the track until he gets it right.  
 

When I get off I sit on the range for hours (when I get time) hitting 60 yard LW’s, 100 yard PW’s and 130 yard 7 iron’s….until I can get my ball flight and sequencing right.  Then I test it on more full shots.
 

Golfers never do that.

 

 

That is some great advice that I never even considered.  Probably even more important for a 9 handicapper like me!

[kobe123]

7 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Draw

 

I agree as I fight not being able to cut it.

 

Is your answer due to my path being in to out?

[virtuoso]

15 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Awfully close to the ball.  Now closer to ball usually means path more left, but that’s so close, you need a really acute understanding on how to move the path left.  

 

Yeah, play from your heels or shank it. He's a good player so option A I guess.

[kobe123]

1 minute ago, virtuoso said:

Yeah, play from your heels or shank it. He's a good player so option A I guess.

 

 

I've been known to shank it, I've been living awfully close to the hosel lately.

[kobe123]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

Yeah, play from your heels or shank it. He's a good player so option A I guess.

 

So you think I'm on my heels at address? I feel the opposite. lol

[virtuoso]

27 minutes ago, kobe123 said:

 

So you think I'm on my heels at address? I feel the opposite. lol

You're probably arches at set up and then you move progressively more into your heels as you go.

[kobe123]

Updated 

 

standing further away and hinging faster 

 

This is the normal under plane closed face. No divot, pull draws. Extremely high flight. I can get away with 8 iron, but driver I can not.

 

something about it, I just don’t like the look of
 

 

 

Edited April 23 by kobe123

[kobe123]

How does my face get so closed on the downswing? 

[virtuoso]

17 hours ago, kobe123 said:

Updated 

 

standing further away and hinging faster 

 

This is the normal under plane closed face. No divot, pull draws. Extremely high flight. I can get away with 8 iron, but driver I can not.

 

something about it, I just don’t like the look of
 

 

 

Just out of curiosity, are you right eye dominant?

[kobe123]

41 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Just out of curiosity, are you right eye dominant?

 

Yes, 100%

 

As you can see from my head movement. I've tried to fix this, I can't lol.

[virtuoso]

11 minutes ago, kobe123 said:

 

Yes, 100%

 

As you can see from my head movement. I've tried to fix this, I can't lol.

Ah, gotcha, yeah looked that way.

[kobe123]

19 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Ah, gotcha, yeah looked that way.

I wish I knew how to stop it, but I can't

[MonteScheinblum]

18 hours ago, kobe123 said:

Updated 

 

standing further away and hinging faster 

 

This is the normal under plane closed face. No divot, pull draws. Extremely high flight. I can get away with 8 iron, but driver I can not.

 

something about it, I just don’t like the look of
 

 

 

There’s nothing wrong with this other than you expecting for it all to sort out in 24 hours.

Golfers wanting to skip any of these steps have Mr. Blutarski’s chance of improving.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CwGN_Swv8Kk/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

[MonteScheinblum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgn0O0yuEls

Edited April 23 by MonteScheinblum

[chigolfer1]

19 hours ago, kobe123 said:

Updated 

 

standing further away and hinging faster 

 

This is the normal under plane closed face. No divot, pull draws. Extremely high flight. I can get away with 8 iron, but driver I can not.

 

something about it, I just don’t like the look of
 

 

 

 

I can only guess it doesn't feel right because  you've managed to build yourself an amazing looking swing with no major anomalies left, or compensations needed lol

[Mike412]

On 3/18/2024 at 12:38 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

I think this is a good call.  When you go to a tour event, the best time to see how to practice when you’re struggling is Friday afternoon.  That’s when everyone who missed the cut is trying to figure it out.  Getting rhythm and sequencing down.  You going down a technical path with this swing won’t help at this time, IMO.

 

If a 100 meter track sprinter gets his stride off, he doesn’t work on changing it by running the 100 as fast as he can.  He does it monotonously jogging around the track until he gets it right.  
 

When I get off I sit on the range for hours (when I get time) hitting 60 yard LW’s, 100 yard PW’s and 130 yard 7 iron’s….until I can get my ball flight and sequencing right.  Then I test it on more full shots.
 

Golfers never do that.

 

 

I remember watching a YT video a while back of you talking about this and hitting partial shots on the range. I believe you were collaborating with someone. I can’t find it now, would you happen to remember it and give me some key words to maybe find it?

[Valtiel]

19 hours ago, kobe123 said:

Updated 

 

standing further away and hinging faster 

 

This is the normal under plane closed face. No divot, pull draws. Extremely high flight. I can get away with 8 iron, but driver I can not.

 

something about it, I just don’t like the look of
 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, kobe123 said:

How does my face get so closed on the downswing? 

A few things i'm seeing re: that question:

1) Right hand is still hinging late. Whatever feel you have for "hinging faster" isn't translating to that hand as it's still nearly flat at left arm parallel going back. It looks like your feel is causing all the hinging to come from your left wrist while the right is too quiet.



This gets the club a bit open going back. Not so much to be a problem, just something to note, because:

2) You have that cool "motorcycle" move at the top:



Which gets the clubface from being a little open going back with a slightly cupped left wrist to a little shut with a fractionally bowed one. The issue I see here is that for an 8-iron this is a really long swing, all the way to parallel. The late right wrist hinging might be encouraging this, plus unless i'm not seeing it right...that ball looks really far forward in your stance, like long iron/fairway wood forward. The further forward the ball is, the more left your path will tend to be without compensation, so left path + slightly shut clubface + a natural "release" at the bottom = those pull-y draw types of flights.

In isolation there are a ton of good components here, they just aren't all quite matched up right yet. I'd be curious to see you attempt 3/4 length punchy sorts of shots with this same 8-iron with the ball in the middle of your stance, not forward.