Why is it so hard to provide good pics of all wedge lofts/grind?

[IHFN]

Every time I start looking for new wedges I get frustrated.  It’s so difficult to find pics of the loft/bounce combinations.  Most OEM pages show a graphic of what the grind looks like from a Birds Eye view, but that doesn’t tell you much about it.  
 

The real key is seeing the grind at a side view that shows you the leading edge, depth and width of the grind. 
 

Most golf shops don’t carry every grind either because there is a cost to doing so.  95% of golfers just grab the basic grinds so that’s what they stock. 
 

I just don’t get why the OEMs don’t provide those basic pictures of every loft/grind option?

 

Even if it’s computer generated that would be ok.  
 

How can we “petition” the OEM’s to start doing this?

[rsballer10]

1 minute ago, IHFN said:

Every time I start looking for new wedges I get frustrated.  It’s so difficult to find pics of the loft/bounce combinations.  Most OEM pages show a graphic of what the grind looks like from a Birds Eye view, but that doesn’t tell you much about it.  
 

The real key is seeing the grind at a side view that shows you the leading edge, depth and width of the grind.

what are you looking for in terms of these specifications? I feel as if most of the descriptions/graphics do a decent job of explaining what the grinds do. There's only so much detail they can give you on a website - if you're looking for that amount of precision you're going to have to do a live demo anyway.

6 minutes ago, IHFN said:

Most golf shops don’t carry every grind either because there is a cost to doing so.  95% of golfers just grab the basic grinds so that’s what they stock.

eh - that has not been my experience. Most big box stores carry the full Vokey, Callaway, and Taylormade stock offerings. That's a lot of grinds to choose from, especially in the LW. There's only so much you can do with a sole - what are you specifically looking for?

10 minutes ago, IHFN said:

I just don’t get why the OEMs don’t provide those basic pictures of every loft/grind option?

 

Even if it’s computer generated that would be ok.  
 

How can we “petition” the OEM’s to start doing this?

Have you tried reaching out to the OEM in question for more info?

[ShortGolfer]

Photograping shiny metal is an an art and a science.

I highly recommend this book in any edition.

 

Light Science & Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting 4th Edition

by Fil Hunter (Author), Steven Biver (Author), Paul Fuqua (Author)

[IHFN]

45 minutes ago, rsballer10 said:

what are you looking for in terms of these specifications? I feel as if most of the descriptions/graphics do a decent job of explaining what the grinds do. There's only so much detail they can give you on a website - if you're looking for that amount of precision you're going to have to do a live demo anyway.

eh - that has not been my experience. Most big box stores carry the full Vokey, Callaway, and Taylormade stock offerings. That's a lot of grinds to choose from, especially in the LW. There's only so much you can do with a sole - what are you specifically looking for?

Have you tried reaching out to the OEM in question for more info?

I want to know how the grind looks on the leading edge, and how it transitions to the back. 
 

For instance, where along the bounce is highest peak?  Is it the back edge of the bounce, or in the middle?  
 

All those details matter in how the wedge actually works. 
 

Another issue is some OEMs measure bounce from leading edge to highest upoint in the bounce, and others measure it as the width of the bounce. 
 

It’s why some wide bounces are listed as high bounce but play effectively as a low bounce. 

[Glock917]

I totally agree with your gripe. I can take away so much from their images describing the bounce profile. It just gives you a bare bones idea. I guess is to not to complicate things to the masses but as a wedge guy and knowing how critical the sole profile is, I do wish they would give more details and pictures in different orientation. Like seeing the actual camber on the sole would be super helpful. Something like this but zoom in more. 

 

 

[BlkNGld]

I'm guessing you're coming at it from the point of view that all of this information is readily available in their CAD tool, why not provide it?   And you'd be right.

 

I suspect that there are a variety of reasons ranging from not wanting to give away too much of their design details all the way to wanting to only provide what they thing the vast majority will use.

 

Without knowing your situation in terms of nearby big box golf stores, I've got a GG, PGASS, and WWGolf stores within reasonable distance of my home/office, and all of them seem to have at least one of every loft/grind/bounce combination, at least when it comes to the big 4 OEMs.   Maybe not in every finish, but otherwise I'm able to find them.

[rsballer10]

1 hour ago, IHFN said:

For instance, where along the bounce is highest peak?  Is it the back edge of the bounce, or in the middle?

I don't know of an OEM where the answer to your question wouldn't be the trailing edge or wherever the relief is for that particular grind.

 

1 hour ago, IHFN said:

Another issue is some OEMs measure bounce from leading edge to highest upoint in the bounce, and others measure it as the width of the bounce

I don't think this is true, to my knowledge almost all OEM's provide "effective" bounce ratings.

 

1 hour ago, IHFN said:

It’s why some wide bounces are listed as high bounce but play effectively as a low bounce. 

any examples? I have not experienced this

 

 

The general consensus is to demo wedges before you buy them, preferably on real grass if possible. I have a bigger beef with the wedge fitting process (so few are done on grass) then I have with the pictures and spec they post on the website. I just think you should let the strike quality and the demo determine your grind.

 

Again - are you looking for a particular geometry or sole?

[TroyB123]

3 minutes ago, rsballer10 said:

I don't know of an OEM where the answer to your question wouldn't be the trailing edge or wherever the relief is for that particular grind.

 

I don't think this is true, to my knowledge almost all OEM's provide "effective" bounce ratings.

 

any examples? I have not experienced this

 

 

The general consensus is to demo wedges before you buy them, preferably on real grass if possible. I have a bigger beef with the wedge fitting process (so few are done on grass) then I have with the pictures and spec they post on the website. I just think you should let the strike quality and the demo determine your grind.

 

Again - are you looking for a particular geometry or sole?

FWIW, my son did a fitting at the titleist perf institute, and the guy working with us said the bounce numbers shouldn't be trusted, and are really just on there for marketing purposes.   The wedge fitting portion of that fitting was by far the most valuable part of it.   He had him doing blind tests for many different shots and from sand, rye and closely mown bermuda.   There was a pretty vast difference in the different grinds.

[rsballer10]

4 minutes ago, TroyB123 said:

FWIW, my son did a fitting at the titleist perf institute, and the guy working with us said the bounce numbers shouldn't be trusted, and are really just on there for marketing purposes.   The wedge fitting portion of that fitting was by far the most valuable part of it.   He had him doing blind tests for many different shots and from sand, rye and closely mown bermuda.   There was a pretty vast difference in the different grinds.

I've heard people claim you should fit based on the letter of the grind and not the bounce # - which I think a case could be made. I just don't think a 3-d rendering or a spec sheet will provide the data you need to make this decision. Your son got fit the correct way - in grass/sand.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 05:35 PM by rsballer10

[Pepperturbo]

The specs the OP wants are not available because the vast majority of wedge users don't look for, much less understand the subtle nuisances of grinds or bounce.  For that matter, most users don't know how a certain grind could benefit them.  They buy more based on popularity and what they heard on a discussion board. 

 

Due to sole design/grind and camber, it's also been my experience, bounce numbers are not exact because the person doing the measuring is human and likely not using the same instrumentation that OEMs use.  The same reason experienced golfers have new iron specs measured by their builder, to insure lofts and lies are what's expected.

 

 

[svlido]

3 hours ago, IHFN said:

Every time I start looking for new wedges I get frustrated.  It’s so difficult to find pics of the loft/bounce combinations.  Most OEM pages show a graphic of what the grind looks like from a Birds Eye view, but that doesn’t tell you much about it.  
 

The real key is seeing the grind at a side view that shows you the leading edge, depth and width of the grind. 
 

Most golf shops don’t carry every grind either because there is a cost to doing so.  95% of golfers just grab the basic grinds so that’s what they stock. 
 

I just don’t get why the OEMs don’t provide those basic pictures of every loft/grind option?

 

Even if it’s computer generated that would be ok.  
 

How can we “petition” the OEM’s to start doing this?

 

The way Titleist does it is fine.  Ping used to do the same thing but Taylormade never does anything with grinds.  A quick picture and description of what each grind accomplishes shouldn't be that difficult.

[svlido]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

The specs the OP wants are not available because the vast majority of wedge users don't look for, much less understand the subtle nuisances of grinds or bounce.  For that matter, most users don't know how a certain grind could benefit them.  They buy more based on popularity and what they heard on a discussion board. 

 

Due to sole design/grind and camber, it's also been my experience, bounce numbers are not exact because the person doing the measuring is human and likely not using the same instrumentation that OEMs use.  The same reason experienced golfers have new iron specs measured by their builder, to insure lofts and lies are what's expected.

 

 

Bounce is for sure just a marketing number on a lot of grinds.  I play the Taylormade LBV and I could measure bounce on it to get several different numbers.  

 

Manufacturers can probably measure bounce down to .00008 on a good CMM but it'll vary based on playing position so the number 7 that mine has on it really doesn't mean a whole lot to me.

[jholz]

5 hours ago, ShortGolfer said:

Photograping shiny metal is an an art and a science.

I highly recommend this book in any edition.

 

Light Science & Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting 4th Edition

by Fil Hunter (Author), Steven Biver (Author), Paul Fuqua (Author)

 

Don't forget about Craig Cutler. That guy uses more light sources than anyone in the industry. 

[ThinkingPlus]

The OEMs don't want you to have that information and make an informed decision. They want you to only hear their marketing pitch and make your decision based on that. That gives them all the control.

[golftech]

On 7/3/2024 at 8:43 AM, Glock917 said:

I totally agree with your gripe. I can take away so much from their images describing the bounce profile. It just gives you a bare bones idea. I guess is to not to complicate things to the masses but as a wedge guy and knowing how critical the sole profile is, I do wish they would give more details and pictures in different orientation. Like seeing the actual camber on the sole would be super helpful. Something like this but zoom in more. 

 

 

I couldn’t agree more, and a good photo angle.  Is that a K grind?