Golf instructors and swing speed

[LogiGolf2]

Has anyone else had an issue with golf instructors essentially refusing to teach them how to increase swing speed? 

 

I've been to 3 guys now and it's played out exactly the same way-

 

Me: I want to make swing changes to increase my swing speed

 

Instructor: Here are some swing changes i want you to make to hit it straighter, make better contact, blah blah

 

Me: Fine. 😕 

 

So then I'll work on that and come back for the next lesson. 

 

Instructor: looks like you implemented the swing changes, how is it going? 

 

Me: my swing speed is still the same. 

 

Instructor: yeah but are you hitting it straighter, better contact, etc

 

Me: Sure, but that's not what I care about. 

 

Instructor: Cool, here's more changes to help you hit it straighter, contact, blah blah

 

I just don't get it.  Is it just it's too challenging to teach people how to increase swing speed?  

 

I don't need some dude telling me why it's important to keep it in play.  Maybe I'm playing in mostly scrambles and all I care about is having 1 out of 4 drives find the middle of the club, go somewhat straight, but get out there a long way. 

 

It's very frustrating. 

[Rbsiedsc]

Would you rather hit the ball straighter or hit it longer and lose more balls? Usually with technique/skill work with an instructor speed will come and distance will increase due to more center contact alone

[airjammer]

Maybe you swing isn’t good enough to safely add any speed to it?  
 

Most golfers aren’t in good enough shape or have a swing that if you added speed you wouldn’t ever find the ball. 
 

Adding speed is easier than gettIng someone to hit it straighter.
 

If you just don’t care if you get hurt and want speed you don’t need an instructor for that. Buy you a launch monitor and every 3 days take your driver and start hitting balls trying to swing faster and faster. Start with 25 balls and over time work your way up. 
 

Here are some videos to help with actual moves that may increase your speed. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jonsnow]

By chance, is most of your "golf" played at Top Golf?

[bmcshea10]

57 minutes ago, LogiGolf2 said:

Has anyone else had an issue with golf instructors essentially refusing to teach them how to increase swing speed? 

 

I've been to 3 guys now and it's played out exactly the same way-

 

Me: I want to make swing changes to increase my swing speed

 

Instructor: Here are some swing changes i want you to make to hit it straighter, make better contact, blah blah

 

Me: Fine. 😕 

 

So then I'll work on that and come back for the next lesson. 

 

Instructor: looks like you implemented the swing changes, how is it going? 

 

Me: my swing speed is still the same. 

 

Instructor: yeah but are you hitting it straighter, better contact, etc

 

Me: Sure, but that's not what I care about. 

 

Instructor: Cool, here's more changes to help you hit it straighter, contact, blah blah

 

I just don't get it.  Is it just it's too challenging to teach people how to increase swing speed?  

 

I don't need some dude telling me why it's important to keep it in play.  Maybe I'm playing in mostly scrambles and all I care about is having 1 out of 4 drives find the middle of the club, go somewhat straight, but get out there a long way. 

 

It's very frustrating. 

Are you hitting the ball the maximum distance for your current swing speed?

[Rbsiedsc]

https://fitforgolf.blog/2024/07/05/common-speed-training-pitfalls/

[RichieHunt]

Most golf instructors just don't have a clue on how to increase speed and are still stuck in the idea of being more accurate and achieving some sort of ultra consistency.  

I agree that actual mechanics and sequencing will help one gain a lot of speed versus just 'moving the body faster.'  And I can understand an instructor working on those things first and then integrating speed training.  But just because there are instructors here and on social media that are into increasing speed and know how to do it...most golf instructors are on the other end of the spectrum.




RH

[Trippels]

Speed training is mostly just swinging driver as hard as you can 25-50 times 2-3 times a week consistently for weeks and months on end.

The technique training will make the increased speed usable, or to help you overcome speed leaks and fixing faults putting a cap on your swing speed potential.

If you want technique training that very specifically increase speed potential you'll probbly need to find someone doing pressure plate stuff.

Assuming your technique is at the very least decent, otherwise the hit the ball straighter technique stuff will overlap with being able to swing faster.

[TheDeanAbides]

What’s your index?

[mgoblue83]

You are asking for someone else to do the hard work for you. There is no magic fairy dust to swing faster. You have to put in the hard work.

 

Speed training requires:

1. Get stronger and more fit and flexible (not your golf pros expertise)

2. Swinging as hard as you possibly can over and over without any concern for direction or technique (the foundation of your swing must be solid enough to hold together without thinking about it).

 

You can and should be responsible for doing both of those things on your own. Your lessons and technique work will make sure that your swing can hold up while you do it.

[bluedot]

The single biggest limitation on swing speed is technique, so it MAY be that your instructors know more than you’re giving them credit for.  The second biggest limitation on swing speed is mobility issues, especially in the hips, and that can lead to technical issues like early extension.  If you read the best research, the subset of all golfers who can actually benefit significantly from pure speed training is very, very small.

 

Trying to significantly increase swing speed if there are technical and/or physical issues is a GREAT recipe for injury; most golfers are already swinging at or near the max that their swing and body can handle, sort of like a car redlining on RPMs.

 

So it may be that you’re asking teaching pros a question that has an answer different from the one you want to hear.  Think of a batter in baseball; it doesn’t matter how fast he swings the bat if he isn’t making solid contact, or has a flaw in his swing.

 

All of that said, there’s no real magic formula for speed work; as others have said, it’s primarily a matter of swinging a driver-weight club as fast as you can several times a week.  There are a lot of devices and a lot of protocols out there if you want to spend money, but it’s not necessary, or even quicker.

 

 

[KD1]

There's an instructor around here that also used to be a world long drive champion. Maybe hire him for an hour of his time?

[nikos74]

Smash factor increases ball speed significantly.  I think 1.50 is the maximum and that is multiplied by clubhead speed.  Unless you are flushing the ball each time, you are wasting energy by primarily chasing CHS.  Not to mention long balls off the fairway hardly provide an advantage over shorter balls on the fairway.

[mgoblue83]

11 minutes ago, bluedot said:

The single biggest limitation on swing speed is technique, so it MAY be that your instructors know more than you’re giving them credit for.  The second biggest limitation on swing speed is mobility issues, especially in the hips, and that can lead to technical issues like early extension.  If you read the best research, the subset of all golfers who can actually benefit significantly from pure speed training is very, very small.

 

Trying to significantly increase swing speed if there are technical and/or physical issues is a GREAT recipe for injury; most golfers are already swinging at or near the max that their swing and body can handle, sort of like a car redlining on RPMs.

 

So it may be that you’re asking teaching pros a question that has an answer different from the one you want to hear.  Think of a batter in baseball; it doesn’t matter how fast he swings the bat if he isn’t making solid contact, or has a flaw in his swing.

 

All of that said, there’s no real magic formula for speed work; as others have said, it’s primarily a matter of swinging a driver-weight club as fast as you can several times a week.  There are a lot of devices and a lot of protocols out there if you want to spend money, but it’s not necessary, or even quicker.

 

 

 

This is not entirely accurate. I agree on what you said about avoiding injury and how solid contact is essential but strength and explosiveness is by far more of a limiting factor than technique or mobility issues. Specifically grip strength.

 

 

[mgoblue83]

Just now, nikos74 said:

Smash factor increases ball speed significantly.  I think 1.50 is the maximum and that is multiplied by clubhead speed.  Unless you are flushing the ball each time, you are wasting energy by primarily chasing CHS.  Not to mention long balls off the fairway hardly provide an advantage over shorter balls on the fairway.

 

You have to separate the process from the finish.

 

Solid contact and club face control is what you work on AFTER increasing speed through training. You have to be willing to swing fast without fear of results if you have any chance of making significant improvements.

[GoGoErky]

13 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

This is not entirely accurate. I agree on what you said about avoiding injury and how solid contact is essential but strength and explosiveness is by far more of a limiting factor than technique or mobility issues. Specifically grip strength.

 

 

Weird because there’s an instructor around here who has gotten students significantly faster just by improving their technique and no changes in their strength or explosiveness 

[PJE]

Why don’t you get some Speed Sticks? Or one of the other speed training systems? 
Those things do work. You will swing faster.
Will you swing better? Maybe or maybe not, as other people said lots of people are already swinging as fast as their technique will allow. 
But if your technique is good, then the added speed will be beneficial? 

[nikos74]

10 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

You have to separate the process from the finish.

 

Solid contact and club face control is what you work on AFTER increasing speed through training. You have to be willing to swing fast without fear of results if you have any chance of making significant improvements.

It depends on what is more critical for the golfer.  If someone only hits their driver 200 yards instead of 250 or better then yes I would agree, especially if they don't have physical disabilities which would prevent them from doing so.  But someone who already hits it 250-260 but struggles with accuracy needs to improve their technique before thinking of reaching 270-280.

[mgoblue83]

3 minutes ago, nikos74 said:

It depends on what is more critical for the golfer.  If someone only hits their driver 200 yards instead of 250 or better then yes I would agree, especially if they don't have physical disabilities which would prevent them from doing so.  But someone who already hits it 250-260 but struggles with accuracy needs to improve their technique before thinking of reaching 270-280.

 

There are always exceptions however the data is clear that strength and explosiveness are bigger limiting factors than anything else. The most simple example is LPGA players who have near perfect technique and contact yet simply don't have the strength to swing faster.

 

Higher club speed = higher potential regardless of technique. That same player who is already hitting it 250 may gain 25 yards through technique improvements only but if he wants to hit it 300+ he's going to have to do the hard work when it comes to strength and explosiveness. It's simply not possible through technique alone.

[Archimedes65]

Are you trying to increase your distance, or your swing speed?  Because you can do the former, without necessarily doing the latter.  My longest drives come from pure contact on the center of the club face with a good launch angle, not necessarily from my fastest swings.

[mgoblue83]

17 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Weird because there’s an instructor around here who has gotten students significantly faster just by improving their technique and no changes in their strength or explosiveness 

 

I'm sure Monte would agree that strength and explosiveness is a bigger limiting factor than technique. There was a 10 page thread that he participated in over the last few weeks specifically dedicated to how much of a limiting factor grip strength is alone.

 

If technique was the most important thing then LPGA players would be swinging MUCH faster than they currently are.

[Archimedes65]

1 minute ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

There are always exceptions however the data is clear that strength and explosiveness are bigger limiting factors than anything else. The most simple example is LPGA players who have near perfect technique and contact yet simply don't have the strength to swing faster.

 

Higher club speed = higher potential regardless of technique. That same player who is already hitting it 250 may gain 25 yards through technique improvements only but if he wants to hit it 300+ he's going to have to do the hard work when it comes to strength and explosiveness. It's simply not possible through technique alone.

 

Agreed, but most adults driving the ball 250 after years of playing are unlikely to ever get their drives over 300 yards.  Attempting such is more likely to destroy their swing and their body unless they’re very athletic to start with.

 

My regular foursome the past 4-5 years includes three guys that are all at least 1-2 clubs longer than me with their irons.  But I routinely out drive all of them by 10-20 yards.  They’re all stronger than me, and have higher swing speeds.  But they rarely strike their drives in the center of the face or with great launch angle.  They can’t understand why I’m longer than them off the tee, but then taking one or two more clubs into the green.  And why my iron dispersion is lower than theirs.  I’ll take technique over swing speed all day.

[mgoblue83]

5 minutes ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

Agreed, but most adults driving the ball 250 after years of playing are unlikely to ever get their drives over 300 yards.  Attempting such is more likely to destroy their swing and their body unless they’re very athletic to start with.

 

My regular foursome the past 4-5 years includes three guys that are all at least 1-2 clubs longer than me with their irons.  But I routinely out drive all of them by 10-20 yards.  They’re all stronger than me, and have higher swing speeds.  But they rarely strike their drives in the center of the face or with great launch angle.  They can’t understand why I’m longer than them off the tee, but then taking one or two more clubs into the green.  And why my iron dispersion is lower than theirs.  I’ll take technique over swing speed all day.

 

This feels like a continuation of the rollback thread with you and GGG. I assure you that there are many and an ever increasing number of players who can go from 250 to 300+ yds. I'm one of them.

 

7-8 years ago in my mid 30s I maxed going all out on Trackman at 102mph club and 151mph ball with a 250-255 carry. Currently in my early 40s and cruising just under 120mph with mid 170s ball speed and the ability to get up to 122-23 and 180+ when really going after it. Worked my butt off in the gym and with speed sticks but my technique isn't great by any stretch. It was just deciding to do it and I'm 100% sure that any health male under 50 could do the same.

Edited July 10 by mgoblue83

[Rbsiedsc]

4 minutes ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

Agreed, but most adults driving the ball 250 after years of playing are unlikely to ever get their drives over 300 yards.  Attempting such is more likely to destroy their swing and their body unless they’re very athletic to start with.

 

 

This isn't true. As we age we lose muscle and flexibility. If you train properly you can get improvements a long with then implementing over speed. I am in the field of technique first with exercise and some overspeed training. When I did overspeed training and lost track of my technique my swing got out of whack and had to go through lessons again to fix. I now go about it with more of a focus on technique, Fit for golf workouts in the gym that help with muscle gain and force generation, then 1-2 sessions of overspeed/fast driver on the range to just get over the mental hurdles.

[Archimedes65]

Just now, mgoblue83 said:

 

This feels like a continuation of the rollback thread with your and GGG. I assure you that there are many and an ever increasing number of players who can go from 250 to 300+ yds. I'm one of them.

 

7-8 years ago in my mid 30s I maxed going all out on Trackman at 102mph club and 151mph ball with a 250-255 carry. Currently in my early 40s and cruising just under 120mph with mid 170s ball speed and the ability to get up to 122-23 and 180+ when really going after it. Worked my butt off in the gym and with speed sticks but my technique isn't great by any stretch. It was just deciding to do it and I'm 100% sure that any health male under 50 could do the same.

 

You think ‘any healthy male under 50’ could achieve a mid 170’s ball speed?  Yeah, I’m gonna have to disagree with you on that one.  You do know that the average ball speed of a PGA Tour pro is low 170’s right?

[Archimedes65]

2 minutes ago, Rbsiedsc said:

This isn't true. As we age we lose muscle and flexibility. If you train properly you can get improvements a long with then implementing over speed. I am in the field of technique first with exercise and some overspeed training. When I did overspeed training and lost track of my technique my swing got out of whack and had to go through lessons again to fix. I now go about it with more of a focus on technique, Fit for golf workouts in the gym that help with muscle gain and force generation, then 1-2 sessions of overspeed/fast driver on the range to just get over the mental hurdles.

 

That sounds fantastic in theory, until you factor in the average male golfer.  They’re not in great shape, they’re a 14-15 handicap, and they drive the ball less than 250, even after all their years of instruction, practice, and playing.   They’re not going to magically jump to 300 plus just by spending some time in the gym and with a teaching pro, particularly if they’re over 40.  Can the rare specimen do that?  Sure.  But for every one of those, there are probably 100 guys that could never do it.

[Archimedes65]

That said, I’m going with Troll Thread for $200 Alex…

[Rbsiedsc]

1 minute ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

That sounds fantastic in theory, until you factor in the average male golfer.  They’re not in great shape, they’re a 14-15 handicap, and they drive the ball less than 250, even after all their years of instruction, practice, and playing.   They’re not going to magically jump to 300 plus just by spending some time in the gym and with a teaching pro, particularly if they’re over 40.  Can the rare specimen do that?  Sure.  But for every one of those, there are probably 100 guys that could never do it.

Sure maybe not 300 consistently but easily could get them above 270-280 with the occasional 300. Getting in shape at the gym could easily get them 25-30 yards from better flexibility from reduction of belly fat and improved shoulder and back muscles and force generation if they have solid technique. Then throw in overspeed training to change what the brain thinks it can do and it is fully possible.

[nikos74]

Flexibility is more important than strength, but both play a role.  Not being obese, a relatively strong core, flexible joints, yes somewhat strong arms and hands.  The real issue is can people turn 45 degrees with their hips and 90 degrees with their shoulders as they age without hurting themselves.  Being physically fit is just as important as good swing mechanics.

Edited July 10 by nikos74

[betarhoalphadelta]

16 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

I'm sure Monte would agree that strength and explosiveness is a bigger limiting factor than technique. There was a 10 page thread that he participated in over the last few weeks specifically dedicated to how much of a limiting factor grip strength is alone.

 

If technique was the most important thing then LPGA players would be swinging MUCH faster than they currently are.

 

IMHO it's not binary. You need good technique to reach the maximum distance your physical ability can support. You need strength & explosiveness to raise the ceiling of that physical ability. The LPGA players are at the maximum distance their physical ability can support. The average male amateur golfer, I would say, is not. I know I'm not.