How to shorten driver shaft?

[Scotch021]

Hey team, thought I try here if anyone has any experience with this before I go in to a shop this weekend to talk to the builder. 
 

My driver shaft (Ventus blue) snapped right before the adapter tip. Can I just have them put a tip on it and just play it as shorter driver (like 43” or so)? 
 

I’ve been wanting to try a shorter driver shaft and maybe this is a blessing and just not sure how they shorten shafts in general too. 

[Bogeyman_MD]

In short, no. If there were enough parallel tip section left it would play much much stiffer than before. It will be a completely different shaft. Not to mention it could be fractured or compromised higher up than the physical break.

[bekgolf]

18 minutes ago, Scotch021 said:

Hey team, thought I try here if anyone has any experience with this before I go in to a shop this weekend to talk to the builder. 
 

My driver shaft (Ventus blue) snapped right before the adapter tip. Can I just have them put a tip on it and just play it as shorter driver (like 43” or so)? 
 

I’ve been wanting to try a shorter driver shaft and maybe this is a blessing and just not sure how they shorten shafts in general too. 

 

You might have a chance at getting a replacement.  I'd contact the driver manufacturer and let them handle it provided you purchased a new driver with that shaft.

 

There are a few threads on broken Ventus shafts, there might be some useful information for you in them.  Good luck.

[EddieEdwards]

It will play stiffer than before, you may have to add weight to the head though which will even things out.

[AbSWFPGA]

I play a speeder evo v 6x in my driver that plays 44” total. Added some lead tape to the head and the thing is money. More control probably gained distance to be honest because much easier to find the center of the face with the shorter shaft. 

[ShortGolfer]

I would bring it back to Club Champion and ask what they could do for me!

They build the clubs they sell.

 

They advertise a premium product and I'd expect them to handle issues like this.

 

Normally one shortens the club at the butt end to minimize changing the shaft flex.

But, a customer should just be able to take it back and have it fixed!

Edited July 11 by ShortGolfer

[Stuart_G]

16 hours ago, Scotch021 said:

just not sure how they shorten shafts in general too. 

 

By cutting off from the butt end, not the tip end.

 

And most shafts have a max safe amount they can be tipped due the limited length of the reinforced tip section.

So depending on how much of the tip you lost there are two possibilities:

1) it will play significantly stiffer due to the large amount of tipping

2) it will be prone to break much more easily if there is not any of the reinforced tip section left at the top of the hosel.

[Nessism]

Most Ventus shafts have 3" of parallel tip section.

 

If you have some calipers, I'd measure the shaft diameter at the break point, and then slide the calipers up the shaft, to see how much parallel tip section you have remaining.  If you have enough, about 1.25", then you can try having the shaft reinstalled into the adapter.  

[Howard_Jones]

The idea about tip trim.....

IF and only IF, the shaft you got now, has a un-damaged tip section, thats at least 1.50" long (1.25" insert + 0.25 Ferrule). Then the queastion is, how much head weight, will you most likely add ?

Look at Woods, and tip trim instructions.
Its typical 0.5" tip trim from 3W to 5W, and head wgt is typical 10 grams up, play length is typical 1.0" shorter

Your shaft is MINIMUM 1.25" shorter = 12.5 grams head wgt, equal to 5/8 tip trim.
If you add 12.5 grams head wgt, and the club is 1.25" shorter, boost of flex is equal to 5/8" tip trim.
(Read, half of the Worse case scenario, a shaft thats tip trimmed 1.25" vs standard)

Go a head, it will be firmer, but NOT like its tip trimmed 1.25", since the added head wgt "Need" 5/8" or half of it to stay on its flex slope.
 

Edited July 11 by Howard_Jones

[Scotch021]

Thanks team, I’ll take it in to see what they say. Could be a fun experiment to try if it’s possible. 

[GoldenAges]

If you decide on the shorter shaft my go to is a heavier shaft and lighter grip. There is a thread in the club makers section with formulas to keep your swingweight where you want it. 

 

Another option if your driver has weights, you could use a lighter weight in the head with your current shaft weight if you prefer lighter shafts.

 

[Stuart_G]

12 hours ago, GoldenAges said:

If you decide on the shorter shaft my go to is a heavier shaft and lighter grip. There is a thread in the club makers section with formulas to keep your swingweight where you want it.

 

If the point is to keep the heft feel similar, keeping the swing weight at the same value is not a good or reliable way to do that.

Edited July 12 by Stuart_G

[GoldenAges]

2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

If the point is to keep the heft feel similar, keeping the swing weight at the same value is not a good or reliable way to do that.

For me, the point is to make the swingweight D2.5. That is the measurable that I use. Many things can change, but in the end the swingweight is what matters to me.

 

[Howard_Jones]

32 minutes ago, GoldenAges said:

For me, the point is to make the swingweight D2.5. That is the measurable that I use. Many things can change, but in the end the swingweight is what matters to me.

 

 

You are most likely wrong about that.

 

Swing wgt fitting as it should be done, is a very rare service to find, and even if you had one, the value from that club is NOT transferable to new club.

 

Thats the most common misunderstanding of that instrument. 

 

Those charts you see, belongs to the workshop area, not the fitting area, never bring them out there.

 

 

Edited July 12 by Howard_Jones

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, GoldenAges said:

For me, the point is to make the swingweight D2.5. That is the measurable that I use. Many things can change, but in the end the swingweight is what matters to me.

 

 

How can the point not be about what you feel when you swing the club?   That's the basic premise of what swing weight is supposed to be for.

 

If you want to match feel, swing weight is a very imperfect way to do that.  It works fine in some cases and works poorly in other cases.  It's very easy to make clubs with the same swing weight value that feel VERY different.  So the swing weight value is not always as meaningful as a metric as you seem to think it is.

 

Edited July 12 by Stuart_G

[GoldenAges]

2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

How can the point not be about what you feel when you swing the club?   That's the basic premise of what swing weight is supposed to be for.

 

If you want to match feel, swing weight is a very imperfect way to do that.  It works fine in some cases and works poorly in other cases.  It's very easy to make clubs with the same swing weight value that feel VERY different.  So the swing weight value is not always as meaningful as a metric as you seem to think it is.

 

 

Well, I've been golfing for over 45 years with no problems yet.

 

I can tell if a club's swingweight is off with one swing, but whatever works for you is good for you.

 

 

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, GoldenAges said:

 

Well, I've been golfing for over 45 years with no problems yet.

 

I can tell if a club's swingweight is off with one swing, but whatever works for you is good for you.

 

You're missing the point.   It isn't about what works for me or what works for you.  Feel is too subjective for that to be meaningful to any other people.  It's about an approach that's guaranteed to give the best results for everyone - particularly the OP and all the people reading looking for advice.   Some people do end up back at the same swing weight value for a particular change but not everyone does.  Probably a minority since if they are coming here for advice on what to do when cutting down the shaft, then the chance that they were never fit for swing weight in the first place.   These are people coming here because they haven't figured out what works best for them.

 

Edited July 12 by Stuart_G

[GoldenAges]

1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

 

You're missing the point.   It isn't about what works for me or what works for you.  Feel is too subjective for that to be meaningful to any other people.  It's about an approach that's guaranteed to give the best results for everyone - particularly the OP and all the people reading looking for advice.   Some people do end up back at the same swing weight value for a particular change but not everyone does.  Probably a minority since if they are coming here for advice on what to do when cutting down the shaft, then the chance that they were never fit for swing weight in the first place.   These are people coming here because they haven't figured out what works best for them.

 

 

I'm simply sharing what works for me and every professional golfer alive.

 

If someone doesn't know what swingweight is right for them, they should find that out right away.

 

Playing a bag of clubs completely unaware what your swingweight is, or what it should be is the best way to become a life long hacker with no consistency.

 

So, what is your alternate method? It sounds like you're saying to just completely ignore the swingweight? Is that the best advice?

 

[jholz]

7 minutes ago, GoldenAges said:

 

I'm simply sharing what works for me and every professional golfer alive.

 

If someone doesn't know what swingweight is right for them, they should find that out right away.

 

Playing a bag of clubs completely unaware what your swingweight is, or what it should be is the best way to become a life long hacker with no consistency.

 

So, what is your alternate method? It sounds like you're saying to just completely ignore the swingweight? Is that the best advice?

 

 

I don't think @Stuart_G is saying that. I think he's just pointing out some simple truths about golf clubs and various ways we measure them. 

 

Talking about swing weight is like talking about "standard specs" on OEM clubs. It seems simple, straightforward, and consistent, but that couldn't be further from the truth.  

 

Swing weight is similar in it's seeming simplicity, yet it doesn't really work the way people like to think. 

 

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, GoldenAges said:

 

I'm simply sharing what works for me and every professional golfer alive.

 

If someone doesn't know what swingweight is right for them, they should find that out right away.

 

Playing a bag of clubs completely unaware what your swingweight is, or what it should be is the best way to become a life long hacker with no consistency.

 

So, what is your alternate method? It sounds like you're saying to just completely ignore the swingweight? Is that the best advice?

 

Sorry mate, don't take this personal, but your thinking about what SW values really is, is the most common misunderstanding of that instrument

Lets scroll back time, to the days the Lorry scale got its pattern pending registered, and that's 1932

The most common shafts back then, was hickory with a taper shape who made them clearly "counter weighted" by today's norms, and the GRIP itself, was a leather "belt", wrapped around the upper 14" inch of the club.....

Where is the Fulcrum on the scale we call Swing weight scale, who really is the patented Lorry Scale from 1932? ....At 14" inches....

The Swing weight scale, is a FANTASTIC instrument, if its used, the way its designed to be used...
.and that's THIS way ONLY


Tune up a club until feel of head weight, and impact pattern say its the best head wgt for THIS club. Use the SW scale (un-gripped), to get a DRY FIT value without grips, for the SET of irons OR woods, you like to have the same PROGRESSION to resistance as clubs goes longer, LIMITED by each GROUP of clubs in the bag.

ANY OTHER USE IS WRONG AND WILL FAIL

What ever SW value you have, example a drivers, it's NOT VALID, for the next driver, UNLESS its build using the same head/head wgt, shaft, grip and play length. If you change only one of them, the SW value that worked on the last club, IS NOT a target for the next.

If you think so, then you did not understand anything about this instrument, and its limitation as stand in for "The Oracle of Delphi", it NEVER was, and never will be, but its still a DARN good instrument, if you use it right.

Edited July 12 by Howard_Jones

[GoldenAges]

27 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Sorry mate, don't take this personal, but your thinking about what SW values really is, is the most common misunderstanding of that instrument

Lets scroll back time, to the days the Lorry scale got its pattern pending registered, and that's 1932

The most common shafts back then, was hickory with a taper shape who made them clearly "counter weighted" by today's norms, and the GRIP itself, was a leather "belt", wrapped around the upper 14" inch of the club.....

Where is the Fulcrum on the scale we call Swing weight scale, who really is the patented Lorry Scale from 1932? ....At 14" inches....

The Swing weight scale, is a FANTASTIC instrument, if its used, the way its designed to be used...
.and that's THIS way ONLY


Tune up a club until feel of head weight, and impact pattern say its the best head wgt for THIS club. Use the SW scale (un-gripped), to get a DRY FIT value without grips, for the SET of irons OR woods, you like to have the same PROGRESSION to resistance as clubs goes longer, LIMITED by each GROUP of clubs in the bag.

ANY OTHER USE IS WRONG AND WILL FAIL

What ever SW value you have, example a drivers, it's NOT VALID, for the next driver, UNLESS its build using the same head/head wgt, shaft, grip and play length. If you change only one of them, the SW value that worked on the last club, IS NOT a target for the next.

If you think so, then you did not understand anything about this instrument, and its limitation as stand in for "The Oracle of Delphi", it NEVER was, and never will be, but its still a DARN good instrument, if you use it right.

 

Don't worry, I'm taking everything said in this thread with a grain of salt. 

 

I'm having my professional club builder fit a brand new 65g shaft into a Titleist TS3 9* at 44.5" and a swingweight of D2.5.

 

I also have a 45" 60g shaft that plays to D2.5 in that same head. There is no confusion on my end. I've been doing this for decades and I know exactly what I'm doing. 

 

I'm seriously uninterested in your cryptic messages that SW is 'not a target' when something is changed.

 

Tell me, what should the new target be for my 65g shaft going into a 195.3g head  @44.5" with a Lamkin crossline standard grip with +2 wraps on the bottom half?

Enlighten me.

[Mark_Tha_Tinkerer]

This topic really interests me whenever it comes up.  I am entirely a novice tinkerer and just add some observations as a guy who experiments on his own clubs only. 

 

CONSIDER THIS:

1.      You start with an off the rack OEM driver built to these “standard” specs:  45.5 inches length, 65 gram shaft, 50 gram grip, 205 gram head, 320 grams total weight and a D4 SW ( I think this is pretty close to the specs for the old TM R15 430 cc driver).

 

2.     You cut 2 inches off the butt end of the club to make it play at 43.5 inches.  The 2 inch butt cut reduces shaft weight by about 4-5 grams so you now have a 60 gram shaft and your total weigh is 315 grams with a SW of C2.  This club configuration is unlike anything you have played before and there is a very good chance it will be useless to you without making some major adjustments.

 

3.     If your goal is to get back to a D4 SW, you add 24 grams of weight to the head.  That gets you a 339-340 gram total weight and a D4 SW.  You now have a total weight problem/issue to address: 340 grams total weight vs. 320 you started with.  Not only do you have to compensate for total weight, but you may have a shaft issue.  Your original driver shaft was manufactured and designed to support and optimize performance on a 200-210 gram driver clubhead weight.  Using it for a 230 gram head will make a difference but what the difference is probably is subjective golfer by golfer and shaft to shaft.  You may very well need a different, heavier fairway wood shaft tip trimmed for about a 7 wood to support the added clubhead weight – you just don’t know until you try it.

 

4.     You find that the club is too heavy for you at 340 grams.  To adjust for the total weight difference, you use a 23 gram Dri Tac Lite grip lowering total weight to a more manageable 313 grams.  That causes your SW scale to measure you at D9 or E0.  If you still want a D4 SW, you need to take off about 10 grams of the weight you added to the head in Step 3.  This reduces your head weight to 219 grams and total weight to 303 grams.  Assuming you did not replace your shaft, you started with a 45.5 inch driver with 320 gram total weight at D4 with a 50 gram grip and ended up with a 43.5 inch driver with 303 gram total weight and D4 swing weight and a 23 gram grip.  Those two clubs will not feel or perform the same at all.  Which, if either, is better for the golfer is unknowable without trying them. 

 

What I think I have learned is that every change you make to a club influences other aspects of the club in ways you really need to think about and possibly adjust for.  The bigger the change from the status quo, the bigger the changes to other aspects of the club and the more adjustments you have to make.  Shortening a driver by simply cutting off ¼ inch at the butt might not really require any or many adjustments.  Shortening a driver by an inch or more is a different story.  Also, once you start messing around with lengths and grip weights, the reading from the SW scale is not really a helpful predictor of “feel,”  at least for me.  YMMV.

 

DISCLAIMER:  If anything I have said conflicts with advise of guys who know what they are doing like Stuart or Howard, then, as to my post above, Nevermind.

[Howard_Jones]

36 minutes ago, GoldenAges said:

 

Don't worry, I'm taking everything said in this thread with a grain of salt. 

 

I'm having my professional club builder fit a brand new 65g shaft into a Titleist TS3 9* at 44.5" and a swingweight of D2.5.

 

I also have a 45" 60g shaft that plays to D2.5 in that same head. There is no confusion on my end. I've been doing this for decades and I know exactly what I'm doing. 

 

I'm seriously uninterested in your cryptic messages that SW is 'not a target' when something is changed.

 

Tell me, what should the new target be for my 65g shaft going into a 195.3g head  @44.5" with a Lamkin crossline standard grip with +2 wraps on the bottom half?

Enlighten me.

How can you ask that question, you have already been enlightened, but overlooked it....your answer was there.

The SW scale was meant to be used to measure a IRON, already tuned up, to make a short cut for a SET with progressive ACTUAL resistance, the way clubs was, and the way they was swinging descending wgt hickory CW weighted shafts, with 14 inches of leather wrap as grip. 

The value is ARBITRARY, and NOT possible to use in any other context

 

[Stuart_G]

2 hours ago, GoldenAges said:

I'm simply sharing what works for me and every professional golfer alive.

 

I think there is another error in perception here.

 

So @Howard_Jones  You actually fit professionals and high level golfers.   How many of the ones that you fit ended up with every club in the set at the same swing weight value?

 

51 minutes ago, GoldenAges said:

I'm seriously uninterested in your cryptic messages that SW is 'not a target' when something is changed.

 

I'm always willing to listen to alternative ideas.  So why is it that you think it should continue to be the target?  

 

Do you really believe that swing weight is an absolute form of measurement?   That all clubs that are at a particular swing weight value will always feel the same?  No matter what might have been done to the club?    Because if so, there is an easy test to dispel that belief.   Take any club, wrap 30 gm of lead tape around the shaft 14" from the butt end of the club and tell me it feels  the same before and after.

Edited July 12 by Stuart_G

[GoldenAges]

16 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

I think there is another error in perception here.

 

So @Howard_Jones  You actually fit professionals and high level golfers.   How many of the ones that you fit ended up with every club in the set at the same swing weight value?

 

 

I'm always willing to listen to alternative ideas.  So why is it that you think it should continue to be the target?  

 

Do you really believe that swing weight is an absolute form of measurement?   That all clubs that are at a particular swing weight value will always feel the same?  No matter what might have been done to the club?    Because if so, there is an easy test to dispel that belief.   Take any club, wrap 30 gm of lead tape around the shaft 14" from the butt end of the club and tell me it feels  the same before and after.

I would never say all clubs in the bag should be the same swingweight and I haven't said that anywhere in this thread. I think you need a breath of fresh air, calm down and stop fabricating things.

[GoldenAges]

Scotty Scheffler has a 42 5/16" 3 wood with a 80 gram shaft in it. Do you fellas think he's swinging it at C8?

 

Or do you think weight was added to the head to make it his desired swingweight?

 

I'm positive I know the answer.

Carry on.

[mogc60]

53 minutes ago, GoldenAges said:

Scotty Scheffler has a 42 5/16" 3 wood with a 80 gram shaft in it. Do you fellas think he's swinging it at C8?

 

Or do you think weight was added to the head to make it his desired swingweight?

 

I'm positive I know the answer.

Carry on.

I’m no Scotty Scheffler, but my 3 wood is 42” and an 80 gram shaft and I have no idea what the swingweight is. I do know it was light and after a few balls and a little lead it feels perfect. Don’t care what the swingweight is.  For many years my irons were sledgehammers. Heavy, anyone who picked them up commenting on how heavy they were. Swingweight was D0. It’s a reference number and nothing else. Get the club to feel right to you. I realized a very long time ago that no two clubs are alike and to get each one to feel right without preconceived notions 

Edited July 12 by mogc60

[GoldenAges]

19 minutes ago, mogc60 said:

I’m no Scotty Scheffler, but my 3 wood is 42” and an 80 gram shaft and I have no idea what the swingweight is. I do know it was light and after a few balls and a little lead it feels perfect. Don’t care what the swingweight is.  For many years my irons were sledgehammers. Heavy, anyone who picked them up commenting on how heavy they were. Swingweight was D0. It’s a reference number and nothing else. Get the club to feel right to you. I realized a very long time ago that no two clubs are alike and to get each one to feel right without preconceived notions 

To each their own. I'm glad you found what works for you. It sounds like you ended up doing exactly what Schefflers club builder did, without the 'club too light' range session.  

 

I can't imagine not knowing my swingweights. I found long ago what swingweights work best for me. 

All woods D2.5

4-PW D2

GW-LW D3 

 

The modifications I do on my clubs is mostly installing shorter, heavier graphite shafts in my woods. It's no secret that weight needs to be added to the head. You essentially 'winged it' and it sounds to me that this is what is being encouraged. It's fine if you guys would rather wing it. Have at it.

[mogc60]

7 minutes ago, GoldenAges said:

To each their own. I'm glad you found what works for you. It sounds like you ended up doing exactly what Schefflers club builder did, without the 'club too light' range session.  

 

I can't imagine not knowing my swingweights. I found long ago what swingweights work best for me. 

All woods D2.5

4-PW D2

GW-LW D3 

 

The modifications I do on my clubs is mostly installing shorter, heavier graphite shafts in my woods. It's no secret that weight needs to be added to the head. You essentially 'winged it' and it sounds to me that this is what is being encouraged. It's fine if you guys would rather wing it. Have at it.

I’m not saying you’re wrong…do what you feel works best for you. In my experience for me I know that D2.5 in one driver feels great but in another D1 or D4 might be what feels best and balanced.  The thread topic is cutting down the driver. Anyone can give the grams needed to add to achieve swingweight but the feel portion of it may be a completely different amount that needs to be added and in my experience is usually less not more 

[Stuart_G]

12 hours ago, GoldenAges said:

I would never say all clubs in the bag should be the same swingweight and I haven't said that anywhere in this thread.

 

 

Whether you intended to our not, you certainly implied it with your emphasis on one specific swing weight value for any kind of club change.  Not only for yourself but "for every professional golfer alive."

 

 

21 hours ago, GoldenAges said:

For me, the point is to make the swingweight D2.5. That is the measurable that I use. Many things can change, but in the end the swingweight is what matters to me.

 

14 hours ago, GoldenAges said:

I'm simply sharing what works for me and every professional golfer alive.

 

 

 

12 hours ago, GoldenAges said:

I think you need a breath of fresh air, calm down and stop fabricating things.

 

I'm always calm when posting.   I'm very patient when it comes to these types of discussions trying to clear up common misunderstandings and misconceptions on fitting related issues.

 

 

12 hours ago, GoldenAges said:

Scotty Scheffler has a 42 5/16" 3 wood with a 80 gram shaft in it. Do you fellas think he's swinging it at C8?

 

Or do you think weight was added to the head to make it his desired swingweight?

 

You seem to be under the wrong impression.  No one said or even suggested that no weight should be added or the head weight shouldn't be adjusted.   We only said a particular swing weight value wasn't always a good metric to use to make that adjustment.    Actual testing on the range while hitting balls and adjusting based on feel as weight is added or removed is the only reliable metric when making certain changes to the club.

 

I have no idea what swing weight he's playing.   But I can guarantee you that most pros, when they makes any kind of significant change to his set up (such as grip weight, shaft weight, playing length) - they go to the range (usually with a OEM rep/fitter) and adjusts the head weight by feel, not by any blind allegiance to a swing weight value.    Then you can take it to a scale and measure the swing weight value and use that value for only as long as they continue to keep the rest of the specs unchanged.

 

Edited July 13 by Stuart_G