Handicap Ethics

[307golf]

Include EVERY score?

Are you supposed to report every score of every round that you play in order to have a 'real' handicap?

I ask this because I often will play rounds where I'm not really trying to score. In cases where I am just working on something or trying out some different club combinations should I still report those scores? Sometimes in a casual round I just lose interest in scoring... All of this would inflate my handicap and I really don't want to develop a 'sandbagger' title. I'd rather have my hcp be a little low than a little high for that reason.

I really wish only tournament rounds were counted because that would essentially solve my entire question.

Anyway, I'm sure someone around here will have the answers I'm looking for.

Thanks,
307golf

[Pars Win!]

Yes, you include every round. If you need clarification please refer to the USGA website under Handicapping or your local golf association. The only thing that maintains the integrity of the handicap system is reporting every round - good or bad!

[MCCA]

Is the rule still 7 holes played post for 9 and 12 post for 18?

[idrive]

If you are not trying to score.. trying different clubs and shots you wouldn't normally..

 

I would say don't post your score.

 

Losing interest is one thing, that's part of the mental part of Golf. Those scores should be posted. Hitting experimental shots that you wouldn't normally hit is another.

 

Sand baggers suck... way too many of them in this sport.

 

I'm a 3 handicapp... I shoot a 3 under and I get beat by 10+ strokes because the 20 handi shoots

a 72???? Get real.

[SadTrombone]

Sand baggers suck... way too many of them in this sport.

 

I'm a 3 handicapp... I shoot a 3 under and I get beat by 10+ strokes because the 20 handi shoots

a 72???? Get real.

I'm leaving my club partly because of this. They insist on playing the club championship off of net. Then they put me out at scratch...I'm just not playing well enough to warrant that, but if that's my cap then so be it. So I shoot 75, for net 75.

 

How can I beat a 28 that shoots net 57???? Oh...that's right...I can't.

 

-mini

[imsocrabby]

i was sitting behind the counter today watching them* race from the 18th green to the GHIN computer as fast as their legs could carry them. and then as loud as they could carry "awww shucks....another 89....i just can't putt to save my life" or "boy i hope i can square up my swing in time for the [insert random event here] in two weeks".

 

 

i mean seriously....why do they* even bother putting the clubs on the cart and driving around for 4 hours if all they're going to do is fill the d@mn card in at the end with lies???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*lying cheating sandbaggers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

edirt to fix the proper form of they're.

[mnavarro]

I post pretty much every score but one time I was hung over, got up at 5:00 am to play was still asleep and played horribly and decided that I was not going to post because it was not representative of how I normally play. Practice is practice and I've played practice rounds when I'm working on a few things taking multiple balls,figuring yardage for a wedge, etc, and I will not post anything.

[aaronsnow]

The only rounds I don't post are the ones played on par 3 courses. Is this ok? I feel like par 3's aren't a "real" golf course and seeing those 68's or 71's throws off my net scoring average anyway.

[alan802]

As long as you know your being honest with yourself the golf karma won't chew your Word not allowed to badly. It's not a true representation of your game if your messing around trying new things that you can only really do out on the course. Just my 2 cents.

[kiwidave]

I post them all. Hell only half the scores you post count anyway

[atlanta golfer]

I post them all even though my pride sometimes doesn't want to when I have a bad round. I truly believe that most people carry slightly lower handicaps than they deserve since some people definitely do not post bad scores especially if at a new course or off season. I would say sandbaggers are more the exception.

 

The original poster's comment about tournament scores caught my attention. I know that in Georgia, the GSGA will look at the tournament scores (you post them with a T) and I believe the rule is if your two lowest tournament scores in the last 20 rounds are better than your handicap average, then they use the lower handicap based only on the tournament scores. I believe the intention of this is to deal with the sandbaggers. Of course, sometimes a tournament will post the scores for you, and if you do it yourself, it is up to you to get the "T" in there. I don't know if this is just GSGA or if this is in all states.

[dlygrisse]

If everyone followed the ESC rule by taking no more strokes than you are allowed on any given hole, things wouldnt get so out of hand. I know a guy who claims he is an 18, but is a good ball striker, streaky putter and makes more birdies than most 6 handicaps, but he always seems to have 2 blow-up holes every round. I am pretty sure he posts a 10 on these holes instead of the allowed 7. I hate playing this guy for $$$$

[307golf]

I understand the philosophy of "post EVERY round" but I also know that my handicap would be inflated at that level. Then when I go out and shoot 5 shots under my cap in tournament play (I almost always score better in tournaments) people are going to be thinking I'm a sandbagger... I own my own business and can't afford to have people think I'm a cheater so I err to the side of a lower handicap. I usually try to decide on/before the first tee if it's going to be a round that counts or if it's just time to practice.

 

I pretty much hate handicaps anyway but have to keep one just to get into some of the amateur tournaments around here... I sure didn't get any 'handicap' time when I was a competive triathlete even though some were obviously more talented than I was. Only in golf...

[atlanta golfer]

If everyone followed the ESC rule by taking no more strokes than you are allowed on any given hole, things wouldnt get so out of hand. I know a guy who claims he is an 18, but is a good ball striker, streaky putter and makes more birdies than most 6 handicaps, but he always seems to have 2 blow-up holes every round. I am pretty sure he posts a 10 on these holes instead of the allowed 7. I hate playing this guy for $$$$

 

It is not hard to find out. A key concept behind the handicap system is that anyone can look anyone else up either on the club bulletin board or online. If you play this guy and you are "pretty certain" that he posts an inflated score, then look up what he is posting and call him out on it. You can do it privately or you can do it officially, your choice.

[atlanta golfer]

I understand the philosophy of "post EVERY round" but I also know that my handicap would be inflated at that level. Then when I go out and shoot 5 shots under my cap in tournament play (I almost always score better in tournaments) people are going to be thinking I'm a sandbagger... I own my own business and can't afford to have people think I'm a cheater so I err to the side of a lower handicap. I usually try to decide on/before the first tee if it's going to be a round that counts or if it's just time to practice.

 

I pretty much hate handicaps anyway but have to keep one just to get into some of the amateur tournaments around here... I sure didn't get any 'handicap' time when I was a competive triathlete even though some were obviously more talented than I was. Only in golf...

 

Since only the best ten of the last twenty scores count towards your handicap, how would this inflate your's? Do you have that many bad rounds? Also, in most states, perhaps all, they count your best tournament scores as an alternative calculation to your regular handicap. So if you are a star in tournaments, then your handicap will be adjusted down. You just put a "T" as score type when you post it. I hate to be judgemental but you come across as someone who is carrying a vanity handicap.

[OHS1Golfer]

you gotta enter everything. and the USGA system is actually a formula. it kicks out the high 2 scores and the low 2 scores

[AirTime23]

If there even is a discussion on whether to include certain scores or not it's the best proof that the system is flawed in the first place. The system should provide absolute rules on which rounds have to be included and which not. If that's not the case the system loses it's credibility.

[Shaitan]

The American system is stupid imho. How is every day I play i put my card in, even though there is no competition pressure, and they only take ur best rounds in to account a true handicap for competition play? It seems to allow it to be much easier to be off a lower handicap then u should be, and is much easier to sandbag. There are always sandbaggers, I know that, but the American system makes it uber-easy.

 

In Oz & NZ, and the UK, and Europe, competition rounds are the only rounds that are recorded. You get nothing taken off or on if u shoot to ur hcap (or the course rating), and .1 (for players hcap <5), .2 (for players hcap <13), .3 (players <19), .4 (players <27) taken off ur hcap for each shot u are under par on the day. .1 is put back on if u shoot over ur h'cap - not matter wat ur score unless u are off 4 or less, where u get .2 back if u shoot more then double ur h'cap. I see that system as being fairer, it accounts for every round although it is still leaning towards ur potential hcap, and it only counts during comp, where most people keep an eagle-eye on ur score. AND, if u don't hand in a card on that day when the tee times say u've teed off, u automatically get .1 put back on.

 

Edit: Sorry for the rant :man_in_love:

[larrybud]

The American system is stupid imho. How is every day I play i put my card in, even though there is no competition pressure, and they only take ur best rounds in to account a true handicap for competition play? It seems to allow it to be much easier to be off a lower handicap then u should be, and is much easier to sandbag. There are always sandbaggers, I know that, but the American system makes it uber-easy.

 

In Oz & NZ, and the UK, and Europe, competition rounds are the only rounds that are recorded. You get nothing taken off or on if u shoot to ur hcap (or the course rating), and .1 (for players hcap <5), .2 (for players hcap <13), .3 (players <19), .4 (players <27) taken off ur hcap for each shot u are under par on the day. .1 is put back on if u shoot over ur h'cap - not matter wat ur score unless u are off 4 or less, where u get .2 back if u shoot more then double ur h'cap. I see that system as being fairer, it accounts for every round although it is still leaning towards ur potential hcap, and it only counts during comp, where most people keep an eagle-eye on ur score. AND, if u don't hand in a card on that day when the tee times say u've teed off, u automatically get .1 put back on.

 

Edit: Sorry for the rant :man_in_love:

An incredibly small percentage of Americans who have handicaps play in organized competitive rounds, so the European system wouldn't work. Now, you might ask why anyone needs a handicap if they don't play in competitive rounds? Many of us play against friends with friendly wagers who don't play in tournaments.

 

I quit the Michigan Publinx 3 years ago because many of the top 10 tourney finishers weren't posting their TOURNAMENT rounds. I complained, and they ignored my complaints. I ran into one jerk who was a 7 playing at a Michigan Amateur qualifier, which requires a 5.1 to enter (not sure how he ever got in).

 

If the USGA rules are followed we wouldn't have these problems.

[FlyFish]

http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/surv...ost_or_not.html

 

When don't you post scores?

 

* When fewer than seven holes are played;

 

* When made on a golf course in an area in which an inactive season established by the authorized golf association is in effect;

 

* When a majority of the holes are not played in accordance with the principles of the Rules of Golf;

 

* When the length of the course is less than 3,000 yards for 18 holes;

 

* When, as a condition of the competition, the maximum number of clubs allowed is less than 14, or types of clubs are limited as, for example, in a competition that allows only iron clubs;

 

* When scores are made on a course with no USGA Course or Slope Rating;

 

* When a player carries or uses non-conforming clubs or uses non-conforming balls;

 

* When artificial devices (as defined under Rule 14-3) are used during the execution of a stroke

[imsocrabby]

+1 flyfish

 

 

 

i was too lazy to look it up for everyone

[Aratan]

Another vote for the EGA system used in most of Europe...

 

All private rounds better than handicap are used to regulate your handicap downwards, only tournament rounds can count the other way and only with 0.1 per round. No math involved, you can calculate your handicap on the spot and sandbagging is a little harder...

[willamette]

If it's really something that concerns you, just throw a 15th club in the bag and then you're not allowed to post the score anyways. If you're playing multiple balls for a practice round, too, that would disqualify the round.

 

If you simply lose mental attention, you definitely need to post the round, because that's part of the game. I always seen to lose patience and concentration between holes 13-16, and that's just a part of my own game to work on.

[neeno120891]

Are you supposed to report every score of every round that you play in order to have a 'real' handicap?

 

I ask this because I often will play rounds where I'm not really trying to score. In cases where I am just working on something or trying out some different club combinations should I still report those scores? Sometimes in a casual round I just lose interest in scoring... All of this would inflate my handicap and I really don't want to develop a 'sandbagger' title. I'd rather have my hcp be a little low than a little high for that reason.

 

I really wish only tournament rounds were counted because that would essentially solve my entire question.

 

Anyway, I'm sure someone around here will have the answers I'm looking for.

 

Thanks,

307golf

come and play in england. we can only count our competition rounds as our handicapping system doesnt allow casual rounds to count toward handicap. i wish it was like america since i play golf about 5 times a week it would be mile better for me to have 5 rounds a week count rather than 1 pressurised chance every week or 2

[The Duck]

BTW, it is had to lower the Index also when posting every round.

Got hurt (finger broke) and my scores jumped 10 strokes for months till I could swing right again.

By then , my index jumped 2 and I am working hard to bring it back down to my current more correct 'cap.

 

My playing partner is mad that my 'cap is high but we understand the USGA system and he has seen my last 20 scores routinely and knows that the trend is coming down. If you question some golfers then may be higher than there index in tourneys due to being watched and having to play per the rules and not according to the casual rounds of friends and "gimmies".

[KevCarter]

I hate to say it, as it goes against the USGA and it's basic doctrine for handicapping, but the OP has a valid point. If you look at the very first part of the USGA handicap manual:

 

1-1. Purpose

 

The purpose of the USGA Handicap System is to make the game of golf more enjoyable by enabling players of differing abilities to compete on an equitable basis. The System provides a fair Course Handicap for each player, regardless of ability, and adjusts a player's Handicap Index up or down as the player's game changes. At the same time, the System disregards high scores that bear little relation to the player's potential ability and promotes continuity by making a Handicap Index continuous from one playing season or year to the next. A Handicap Index is useful for all forms of play, and is issued only to individuals who are members of a licensed golf club.

 

Two basic premises underlie the USGA Handicap System, namely that each player will try to make the best score at every hole in every round, regardless of where the round is played, and that the player will post every acceptable round for peer review. The player and the player's Handicap Committee have joint responsibility for adhering to these premises.

 

================================================

 

What the OP is saying is that some rounds he really is NOT trying to make the best score he can on every hole, yet the score MUST be entered. I hate to admit that the system may be flawed in this regard, but I don't have a solution to offer so maybe I should keep my big mouth shut. :clapping:

 

Kevin

[atlanta golfer]

BTW, it is had to lower the Index also when posting every round.

Got hurt (finger broke) and my scores jumped 10 strokes for months till I could swing right again.

By then , my index jumped 2 and I am working hard to bring it back down to my current more correct 'cap.

 

My playing partner is mad that my 'cap is high but we understand the USGA system and he has seen my last 20 scores routinely and knows that the trend is coming down. If you question some golfers then may be higher than there index in tourneys due to being watched and having to play per the rules and not according to the casual rounds of friends and "gimmies".

 

Let me check for understanding......your scores jumped 10 strokes for months but your index only came up by 2? I take it you didn't play that many rounds then, during those months.

 

I like the feature in the handicap system, at least for gsga and I assume all member states, where you can watch the handicap trend over time - it is a little bar chart by month of your index. Although most of us would like it to always go lower, or at least stay flat, the reality is it will drift up and down over time. Certainly during the winter it will inch up a bit, then inch down as we play more rounds again in better conditions. If we have an injury, or make a big swing change, it will trend higher for a while before coming back down. In the scheme of things 2 points up or down is not that much, even for a single digit player.

[Pinehurst1999]

If everyone followed the ESC rule by taking no more strokes than you are allowed on any given hole, things wouldnt get so out of hand. I know a guy who claims he is an 18, but is a good ball striker, streaky putter and makes more birdies than most 6 handicaps, but he always seems to have 2 blow-up holes every round. I am pretty sure he posts a 10 on these holes instead of the allowed 7. I hate playing this guy for $$$$

This is a great rule and not many even know what it is or why it exists. Trying to explain it's reasoning is so difficult to someone who just does not 'get it'. I am a 15 right now and I stick to the 7 bing my max score on any hole...and it never really come into play unless something crazy happens like 2 OB tee shots in a row.

 

I do have this question. I played in an egolf amateur tournament on Saturday and they have a triple bogey max rule which obviously is a little different than ESC but close to the same. My question is this...I made an 8 on a par 5 during the tournament, so when I post my score do I post my 94 from the tournament since it was a competition round, or do I post a 93 for adjusting that 8 to a 7 with ESC? The egolf tour handicaps you based on tournament play so I am not concerned with that, but for my entering of the score which do I post?

[aec4]

you gotta enter everything. and the USGA system is actually a formula. it kicks out the high 2 scores and the low 2 scores

No they do not.

 

Most recent 20 scores, take the best 10 in terms of differential (Score - Rating) * 113 / Slope.

 

Take the avg of those best 10 and multiply by 0.96. No dropping the 2 best.

[philfan316]

Here's a scenario for everybody to think about. I was playing today at a course that I have recorded 4 rounds at so far this year. Full stats kept, tournament like attitude towards the round, etc.

 

Anyway, today I played my 5th round there and I ran into some problems.

 

I played the first couple of holes with no interruption, and was able to look at the putts and pull the pin.

 

On #3, I hit my ball over to the right, up by some bunkers and tall grass that is somewhat mowed down. I look for my ball and I can't find it. So I go to drive back to the tee and hit 3 from the tee and another single drives up to the tee box, to play # 3. So I turn around, and drop a ball in the fairway and hit 4 from the fairway and 2 putt for 6. I am not going to drop 2 and hit 3, because it is not lateral. However, I couldn't hit the drive, so who knows what could have happened to the 2nd drive? Did I do the right thing by dropping 3 and hitting 4?

 

On #4, a Par 3, I was on the tee and I hit my ball into the bunker, and I wanted to take my time and I hit it pretty close. I was walking up to the ball and as I was marking it, I see two guys standing on the tee, waiting for me. WTF? Where did they come from. Anyway, instead of pulling the flag, I just quickly put my ball down and miss the 5 footer. They apparently were skipping around the course, because they disappeared after that hole.

 

5 through 10 were fine.

 

On #11, I run into a 4 some, who are on the green and I'm on the tee. The next hole is a Par 3, so they will probably let me play through, but since I'm on the tee and they are exiting the green. They will not wait the 7 mins it will take me to play the hole and let me pass. So I rush a 50 foot putt, to get to the Par 3 before they drive off, and I 3 jack it. They are now driving up to the Par 3's green to putt. Leaving me waiting anyway.

 

DO I RE-DO The 50 Footer? Now I know how hard to hit, etc. That isn't fair.

 

On #12, The par 3, I hit the ball again to about 50 feet away and the 4 some have now made their way to #13. I can't tell if they are going to wait for me, because the tee is hidden from where I am so I go up to the ball and whack it up there about 10 feet and miss that for another 3 jack.

 

I rush over to my cart, hoping they have waited for me and NO, they have made their way to middle of the fairway to hit their approach shots. I am waiting on the tee box, so I can hit the ball. The next hole is a Par 5 and they will probably not wait for me if I trail them on this hole. So I make an unfortunate decision to pick up my ball off the middle of the f-way and drive up to them as they are exiting the green. They clearly rushed it because they were walking very fast around the green knowing I was in the middle of the fairway waiting. I say "Hey guys, I'm going on ahead."

 

I didn't get to hit my approach shot, which could have gone in the green side hazard or in the hole for an eagle. I will never know.

 

#14, I rush the tee shot because as I'm making the trek the back tee, these a-holes drive up to their white tee. I finally get to my ball, and rush that one to create some space between me and the a-holes. I find my ball on the back of this green and 2 putt it from 80 feet for birdie. Because I could take my time and think about the putt.

 

#15 through #18 were fine.

 

The question is

 

1.) How do I legitmately count my round, if I have picked my ball and rushed shots.

 

2.) Am I allowed to go back to the holes, say on another day and replay those shots.

 

3.) What would do in these situations, in terms of counting your score.