Speed Up epoxy curing time

[Ken_In_CA]

How do you do it?

Just wondering how people speed up the curing time of a 24 hour epoxy? Heat gun for how long and what temp?

Also, by doing this, does it weaken the strength of the bond, defeating the purpose of a 24 hour epoxy?

Thanks,
Ken

[Awalkspoiled]

Don't use a heatgun - much too hot. ideally you'd build a thermostat-controlled heatbox, which is just a tinfoil-lined box with a lightbulb, a vent and a thermostat, and set it at 120°f. This allows a full cure in 2-3 hours (actually less once you know what you're doing). If that's impractical, just set the club under a desk-lamp or two for a few hours. make sure to check back on it since the heat will cause the epoxy to liquify before firing, and you may get some bubbling-out.

[wildwilly911]

about 140 degrees is optimal temp to speed up cure, you cant apply heat untill epoxy sets up or it just gets real runny and you lose your bond. 24 hour epoxy sets up in about 3 hours then you can add heat

[highergr0und]

It's summer right now so I put clubs in the shed. I still leave them for 12-14 hours before I put the grip on though and a full 24 to hit it. It's all fun and games at my local aqua range (only thing available) until a head goes SPLASH!! Hasn't happened yet, but I can just see it.

[I_HATE_SNOW]

If done properly, the strength should actually increase!

[Blackfinn]

Please DO NOT try to speed up the curing process! I've worked with epoxy for years in the boat industry. There is a fast cure epoxy made easpecially for cold weather environments and they have a variation of the fast cure in most golf club repair shops. They call it 5 minute epoxy. I do not recommend it. If you try to speed up the cure process with regular cure time epoxy by using excess heat or by using a higher catalyst ratio, you will WEAKEN the bond.

[DLiver]

If you add heat to typical club making epoxies, it will shorten the cure time (as others have said) and create a stronger bond.

[Blackfinn]

Excess heat will quicken the cure time but may render the bond more brittle, less stress resistant.

[xdhammerbx]

Excess heat will quicken the cure time but may render the bond more brittle, less stress resistant.

 

 

hes right... just think, how do you weaken epoxy? you heat it.

 

 

 

use i believe dp510... its a 20 min epoxy and clubs can be hit in an hour.. works well and holds up just as good as over night epoxies... i believe its the same thing they use on tour.

 

its a blueish epoxy when mixed properly that turns like booger green when cured.

 

 

 

SMELLS HORRIBLE once heated up though :rolleyes:

[Blackfinn]

When used in very high-end $$ performance racing sailboats, slow cure epoxy = strongest bond.

[joey3108]

Come over to my shop, I'll show you how to use a heat gun 2-3 times within 30 minutes...It'll cure it even stronger than normal procedure if you do it correctly.

 

Definitely not recommendable for amateur builder. :rolleyes:

 

I can even use a MAP gas torch on an iron when I have to do an extreme case for touring pro or fuzzy customer who need it done quick on the spot.

 

You can ask all local members here whom most of them seen me how to do it.

 

Risky if you to agressive, It'll burn the epoxy instead or curing it when you do it with to much heat.

 

The saver way is to use a "curing box" with 100 watts lamp, but of course not as fast as heat gun. It's a waiste of ellectric bill, but it'll do the job perfectly.

 

The cheapest is to do it during day time when outside temp is 80* or above. Cure it by placing a glued clubs inside your car trunk. Just make sure you put a plastic bag in case of glue dripping. 90-120 minutes 3 hrs to be save ) for 24hrs epoxy will fully cured the glue. Wait till cool down in room temp before hitting it.

 

This is a similar technique when they build shaft during curing time inside the oven after the applied resin, rolled it and wraped it with shrink wrap to squeeze it tight.

 

Good Luck!

 

Joe

[jacksonlui]

what are some good techniques to keep the head from rotating if you want to line up a spine during the curing process?

[joey3108]

I use a aluminium oxide sand from my blasting cabinet. But hobbiest, You can use a lightly coated sugar. However, You can't heat it up as the sugar will melt.

 

Just sprinkle it lightly by the tip before insertion!

[jacksonlui]

sprinkle sugar on "top of the Epoxy" that's on the tip?

what happens to the sugar afterwards?

will it break down and create voids?

won't the sugar coat cause a weak bond?

 

thanks!

Jack

[joey3108]

All you need is to have enough friction to hold the shaft in a certain possition, that means you don't need a ton of sugar to make them distract the bonding strenght issue. The consistentcy of epoxy at the right temp is not gonna make the sugar melt to far to effect the mixture compossition of the glue. I've done this 20 years ago when i used to do this as a hobby and epoxy quality are not as good as now a days on certain brand.

[Twiggy]

I just use a simple space heater and place it @ 1 foot to 1.5 feet away from the club/clubs. Simple, safe, and no risk of overheating.

[NPVWhiz]

I'm going to have to see a little more in depth explanation of the chemistry involved before I'll buy the idea that curing shafting epoxy with a little extra heat can result in a compromised bond.

 

The types of structural epoxies used in boat building aren't necessarily the same type of formulation that produces a good, high shear strength bond that's thin, as is the case when bonding a shaft to a hosel.

 

In any case, I've done a little hobbyist experimenting over the years, and I've picked up a few tips from club builders I've met.

 

The biggest mistake I think most hobbyists will make with 24 hour epoxy is to not mix the two parts well enough. After a good mixing, I heat the epoxy up just a little, less than 5 seconds in the microwave. Then I mix it a little more, and within 10 minutes or so it thickens to a very nice consistency. Once the epoxy has set reasonably well, if I want a quick cure, I'll move them to my "hot box", which is just the back seat of my car during a regular spring or summer day. 4 hours in 100 to 120 F heat will cure 24 hour epoxy to playing condition.

 

If you want to demonstrate for yourself, just mix a little up, then split it into two batches. Leave one over night to cure, then put the other out in back window of the car for a few hours and compare.

 

Following the logic of the "heat hurts the bond theory", you would allow the clubs to cure at the slowest possible rate, meaning lower temperature. The reason why the epoxy package says not to cure the clubs below 60 F is that the bond will cure at that temp, but it will take a lot longer than 24 hours. For that formulation, overnight gives enough curing that the club is essentially done overnight.

[jacksonlui]

what do you guys think of tour epoxy. the one that sets in 5 minutes and cures white in 30 minutes?

i always ask my builder to use that whenever possible so reshafting graphite is super easy and extremely low heat.

it might not be as strong as epoxy but for woods, it's good enough, i think. i've never had one fail.

for irons, i always have them use 24hr epoxy since you're hitting the ground with it.

 

i figure if it's good enough for tour players who swing at 120mph, it's good enough for a weekend player who swings at 90mph.

[joey3108]

what do you guys think of tour epoxy. the one that sets in 5 minutes and cures white in 30 minutes?

i always ask my builder to use that whenever possible so reshafting graphite is super easy and extremely low heat.

it might not be as strong as epoxy but for woods, it's good enough, i think. i've never had one fail.

for irons, i always have them use 24hr epoxy since you're hitting the ground with it.

 

i figure if it's good enough for tour players who swing at 120mph, it's good enough for a weekend player who swings at 90mph.

1. Not all 5 minutes epoxy are the same.

2. Proper handling is critical on 5 minutes epoxy to get a proper curing.

3. 5 minutes does not mean you can hit in 5 minutes, it means gel time to work on it at 73*temp. Imagine if they said handling time is 15-20 minutes on one of the best fast cure epoxy and not to mention fully cured still at 24-48hrs at 73* room temp.

4. For a peace of mind and liability issue, any clubmakers as a business using 5 minutes epoxy is taking a big risk IMO.

5. Do you know how many time pro reglued their club due to loose epoxy or the biggest of all is that pro change club before the glue failed? Honestly, only no brain pro crazy enough to play on a tournament risking his score over a 5 minutes epoxy, even lots of them don't know it. Especially on a cheap brand.

6. Give plenty of time so you don't need to use 5 minutes epoxy for a 99.9% security.

7. etc

 

Here is the best 5 minutes epoxy that i know of:

http://www.alliedelec.com/Images/Products/...ies_6177001.pdf

[jacksonlui]

I was talking about Golfsmith's Tour Van Shafting Epoxy

http://www.golfsmith.com/products/996#

 

it sets in 5min and cures in 30m

 

as far as liability, I'm sure Golfsmith has thought of that before selling this product, otherwise they are liable if the product, if used as directed, fails in an application.

 

I understand the clubbuilder's point of view because they have to ensure the club will work for any golfer at any swing speed in all conditions, plus it's cheaper. It doesn't mean that this product doesn't work as intended though.

[dabong]

Joe, could you please describe how you speed up the curing process of 24hr epoxy with a heat gun. I would love to come by your shop but unfortunately I'm on the other coast, hehe. I only have access to 24hr epoxy and is way too impatient to wait. I guess I can alway use 5 min epoxy but where's the fun in that. If anyone else who has seen Joe done it could also describe the process, maybe it'll save him some typing time. Thanks

[boatrightgolf7]

Use 24 hour epoxy and wait about 12 hours then take a hair dryer and put in about 15 inches from the head and turn it on low. do this for 20 minutes 3 or 4 times. Making sure the head doesn't get to hot then it should be set in about 16 hours.

[InsanityFromGermany]

[quote name='highergr0und' timestamp='1217268546' post='1186506']
It's summer right now so I put clubs in the shed. I still leave them for 12-14 hours before I put the grip on though and a full 24 to hit it. It's all fun and games at my local aqua range (only thing available) until a head goes SPLASH!! Hasn't happened yet, but I can just see it.
[/quote]

Ive had quite a few clubs fall apart so far, considering Im not playing that often. I never had a head fly, Ive always noticed something is wrong down there and started twisting carefully until the club head came loose very easily. If you know the Ferrules are glued on and cant be moved, than seeing the first gap will indicate something is wrong. Just saying.



So you guys have mentioned tour van and tour in general. Ive seen quite a few videos of tour vans where they show you around and than point at some microwave kinda thing and say, thats where we cure the freshly glued clubs for an hour and than they are ready to be hit.
Considering all the glue talked about I dont see anything fitting that discription. Anyways, I dont see any reason to speed any glueing up in amateur country. If you dont have a glub along fine, play without it and wait until it is set properly in a good enviroment. Honestly, Id rather glue it properly once than glue it twice. You can always fill a gap of one club in a bag.

[Nessism]

[quote name='boatrightgolf7' timestamp='1395663450' post='8937123']
Use 24 hour epoxy and wait about 12 hours then take a hair dryer and put in about 15 inches from the head and turn it on low. do this for 20 minutes 3 or 4 times. Making sure the head doesn't get to hot then it should be set in about 16 hours.
[/quote]

How did you come up with this scheme? Quite a bit of manipulation. Have never seen or heard anyone doing this sort of thing in industry to speed up epoxy cure.


[quote name='InsanityFromGermany' timestamp='1395664049' post='8937177']
Ive had quite a few clubs fall apart so far, considering Im not playing that often. I never had a head fly, Ive always noticed something is wrong down there and started twisting carefully until the club head came loose very easily. If you know the Ferrules are glued on and cant be moved, than seeing the first gap will indicate something is wrong. Just saying.

So you guys have mentioned tour van and tour in general. Ive seen quite a few videos of tour vans where they show you around and than point at some microwave kinda thing and say, thats where we cure the freshly glued clubs for an hour and than they are ready to be hit.
Considering all the glue talked about I dont see anything fitting that discription. Anyways, I dont see any reason to speed any glueing up in amateur country. If you dont have a glub along fine, play without it and wait until it is set properly in a good enviroment. Honestly, Id rather glue it properly once than glue it twice. You can always fill a gap of one club in a bag.
[/quote]

Wow, "quite a few clubs fall apart...". This is greatly concerning. Sounds like a basic lack of understanding regarding how to bond clubs together. I strongly suggest you go to Golf Works and read up, and watch some videos on Youtube where some professionals assemble clubs. Pretty basic stuff. There is no reason whatsoever to have ANY clubs fail.

Epoxy can be speed cured with heat. Typically, 2 hours at 120F or 1 hour at 140F to reach full strength. These values come from 3M, not someones opinion. [url="http://www.3m.com/intl/kr/img/adh/adhesives/dpseries/DP460.pdf"]http://www.3m.com/intl/kr/img/adh/adhesives/dpseries/DP460.pdf[/url] Might be best to wait for the epoxy to get firm before heating, otherwise the epoxy will become more fluid and may move out of the joint.

You can make a simple hot box yourself by building an air dam around the clubs. I use some old wood scraps. A couple old style light bulbs (100W'ers) shining in the box works, or what I do, set my Harbor Freight heat gun to low and let it blow into the box. Make sure the heat gun isn't blowing directly on the front iron in the group otherwise it will get overly hot. Direct the air into the box, but not on any particular club. Do this and your clubs will be fully cured and ready for use in about one hour.

[Septologist]

What would happen if you mixed a quick set epoxy and a slow set epoxy together?

[InsanityFromGermany]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1395670257' post='8937813']

Wow, "quite a few clubs fall apart...". This is greatly concerning. Sounds like a basic lack of understanding regarding how to bond clubs together. I strongly suggest you go to Golf Works and read up, and watch some videos on Youtube where some professionals assemble clubs. Pretty basic stuff. There is no reason whatsoever to have ANY clubs fail.

Epoxy can be speed cured with heat. Typically, 2 hours at 120F or 1 hour at 140F to reach full strength. These values come from 3M, not someones opinion. [url="http://www.3m.com/intl/kr/img/adh/adhesives/dpseries/DP460.pdf"]http://www.3m.com/in...eries/DP460.pdf[/url] Might be best to wait for the epoxy to get firm before heating, otherwise the epoxy will become more fluid and may move out of the joint.

You can make a simple hot box yourself by building an air dam around the clubs. I use some old wood scraps. A couple old style light bulbs (100W'ers) shining in the box works, or what I do, set my Harbor Freight heat gun to low and let it blow into the box. Make sure the heat gun isn't blowing directly on the front iron in the group otherwise it will get overly hot. Direct the air into the box, but not on any particular club. Do this and your clubs will be fully cured and ready for use in about one hour.
[/quote]

Trust me I do glue properly, but sometimes I had problems with the chrome finish on the shaft, OR which is probably more of a reason why this tends to happen, I swing really hard. I can hit quite the pancakes out of the ground.
I would not be surpised that once I check the angles on the clubs, that theyd be all screwed up. All Ive heard is at fitting might as well play with train tracks.
Anyways, I never head a flying head, so there is no harm done.
Good to know if ever Im in need of a quick repair job on an iron. But it will effect the toughness of the epoxy wont it? Cant imagine it beeing as reliable as letting it properly set for 24 hours. Than again, knowing a little chemistry, why wouldnt it.

[ronsc1985]

This isn't complicated. From basic chemistry the rate of most reactions (in this case curing the epoxy) doubles for every 10 C or 18 F change in temperature. This is a two way street i.e. lower the temperature and the curing time increases.

As to assembling golf clubs the cure time of the epoxy is usually stated at something like 70-78 F. So if you want to make a 24 hr cure epoxy into a 3 hour cure epoxy just increase the ambient temperature by 3x18 or 54 degrees F.

As stated before don't get carried away with the accelerated curing as if you make the uncured mixture too hot it will becomes a race between the epoxy viscosity increasing because of curing vs decreasing due to heat. Something in the 120-150 F range is a reasonable region which can be acheived with all kind of commonly available heat lamps, heat boxes, stick the clubs on the top of your furnace etc..

[Ri_Redneck]

[quote name='Blackfinn' timestamp='1217269582' post='1186534']
Please DO NOT try to speed up the curing process! I've worked with epoxy for years in the boat industry. There is a fast cure epoxy made easpecially for cold weather environments and they have a variation of the fast cure in most golf club repair shops. They call it 5 minute epoxy. I do not recommend it. If you try to speed up the cure process with regular cure time epoxy by using excess heat or by using a higher catalyst ratio, you will WEAKEN the bond.
[/quote]

BS. I have heat cured shafting epoxy for nearly 20 yrs. For normal 24hr GS or GW 2-part, 150* for 2 hrs and go play.

BT

[InsanityFromGermany]

[quote name='Ri_Redneck' timestamp='1395798681' post='8951749']

BS. I have heat cured shafting epoxy for nearly 20 yrs. For normal 24hr GS or GW 2-part, 150* for 2 hrs and go play.

BT
[/quote]

See, this is what I was waiting for, someone who has actually done this for 20 years without any problems! Thanks for sharing!

[Nessism]

[quote name='InsanityFromGermany' timestamp='1395678494' post='8939041']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1395670257' post='8937813']
Wow, "quite a few clubs fall apart...". This is greatly concerning. Sounds like a basic lack of understanding regarding how to bond clubs together. I strongly suggest you go to Golf Works and read up, and watch some videos on Youtube where some professionals assemble clubs. Pretty basic stuff. There is no reason whatsoever to have ANY clubs fail.

Epoxy can be speed cured with heat. Typically, 2 hours at 120F or 1 hour at 140F to reach full strength. These values come from 3M, not someones opinion. [url="http://www.3m.com/intl/kr/img/adh/adhesives/dpseries/DP460.pdf"]http://www.3m.com/in...eries/DP460.pdf[/url] Might be best to wait for the epoxy to get firm before heating, otherwise the epoxy will become more fluid and may move out of the joint.

You can make a simple hot box yourself by building an air dam around the clubs. I use some old wood scraps. A couple old style light bulbs (100W'ers) shining in the box works, or what I do, set my Harbor Freight heat gun to low and let it blow into the box. Make sure the heat gun isn't blowing directly on the front iron in the group otherwise it will get overly hot. Direct the air into the box, but not on any particular club. Do this and your clubs will be fully cured and ready for use in about one hour.
[/quote]

Trust me I do glue properly, but sometimes I had problems with the chrome finish on the shaft, OR which is probably more of a reason why this tends to happen, I swing really hard. I can hit quite the pancakes out of the ground.
I would not be surpised that once I check the angles on the clubs, that theyd be all screwed up. All Ive heard is at fitting might as well play with train tracks.
Anyways, I never head a flying head, so there is no harm done.
Good to know if ever Im in need of a quick repair job on an iron. But it will effect the toughness of the epoxy wont it? Cant imagine it beeing as reliable as letting it properly set for 24 hours. Than again, knowing a little chemistry, why wouldnt it.
[/quote]

What does "problem with chrome finish" mean? You are abrading the chrome right? The shaft should be roughed up really well, or even strip off the chrome if you have the proper equipment. Regarding the toughness of the epoxy being affected by heating, no. You are just speeding the cure, heat does not change the chemistry.


[quote name='InsanityFromGermany' timestamp='1395876488' post='8958209']
[quote name='Ri_Redneck' timestamp='1395798681' post='8951749']
BS. I have heat cured shafting epoxy for nearly 20 yrs. For normal 24hr GS or GW 2-part, 150* for 2 hrs and go play.

BT
[/quote]

See, this is what I was waiting for, someone who has actually done this for 20 years without any problems! Thanks for sharing!
[/quote]

So you are more willing to trust someone you never met from the internet than that 3M datasheet?