Jeans on the Golf Course - Yay or Nay?

[scottyallanb]

I am a high school golf coach and I will not allow anyone to play if they are wearing jeans.

Scotty B

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='scottyallanb' date='04 April 2010 - 07:14 AM' timestamp='1270386875' post='2359614']
I am a high school golf coach and I will not allow anyone to play if they are wearing jeans.

Scotty B
[/quote]


Then does your school pay for the "proper" attire that your require for your team. I hope you never lose a really talented kid because of a rule like this. I know parents(like myself and my wife) who would tell you to keep your rule and their child(who by the way might be a really talented player) would not be on your team.
I also would be curious to see what a school board would have to say if parents protested this rule.

Now if your team's home course has rule agaisn't jeans, then that is a different matter. But personally, as a parent, golfer, and coach, I really find your rule over the top. I would rather concern myself if my kids knew the rules and etiquette of the game rather if they are wearing jeans.

[mat562]

Honestly?

You'd keep your talented child from playing on a golf team were the coach to insist on trousers as part of the team uniform? You'd deny them the chance to play competitive golf for their school on principle? Because you feel so strongly that jeans should be allowed on a golf course and that the wearing of trousers is so unreasonable a thing to insist upon?

I'm stunned. Genuinely flabbergasted. I appreciate your viewpoint but, honestly, mine couldn't be more the opposite.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='mat562' date='04 April 2010 - 09:18 AM' timestamp='1270394335' post='2359756']
Honestly?

You'd keep your talented child from playing on a golf team were the coach to insist on trousers as part of the team uniform? You'd deny them the chance to play competitive golf for their school on principle? Because you feel so strongly that jeans should be allowed on a golf course and that the wearing of trousers is so unreasonable a thing to insist upon?

I'm stunned. Genuinely flabbergasted.
[/quote]

Sounds completely ridiculous doesn't it, kind of like a coach not allowing that talented child to play on his team because he's wearing jeans.

Personally I really don't feel that strongly about jeans on the course. Do I wear them? Yes, all the time because I wear them to work and usually go out during the day and then back to work. I much prefer shorts, and I do agree, a pair of khakis or the like do look better. But I really believe that wearing jeans is such a trivial matter in the overall scope of the game. I realize there are areas and particular course where rules do apply (as I stated, if the course they use has that for a rule, then thats a different situation), but shouldn't it be more important "how" the kids conduct themselves on the course as opposed to what they are covering their legs with? This entire 16 page debate about jeans continues to have me shaking my head.

[Bomb and Gouge]

All high school sports have uniform requirements....even at practice. If you can't handle that, or afford it, you're a crappy parent- IMO.

[deadsolid...shank]

And I will say that I should have asked that question, is the rule for practices or matches. That was a mistake on my part because that piece of information is important.

And no, not all high schools have uniform requirments in practice. And my feelings on jeans on the course or this rule does not make me a crappy parent.

Also, here state law says that if you require certain apparel must be worn, then the school must furnish it if the parent cannot. Another issue for school budgets.

[Bomb and Gouge]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' date='04 April 2010 - 11:38 AM' timestamp='1270399127' post='2359882']
And no, not all high schools have uniform requirments in practice.
[/quote]

Try wearing jeans to soccer, basketball or football practice.


Get real man!

[deadsolid...shank]

And no, not all high schools have uniform requirments in practice.

 

Try wearing jeans to soccer, basketball or football practice.

 

 

Get real man!

 

 

 

I don't think we're on a soccer, basketball, or football board, are we. And my definition of "uniform" is wearing the same thing, such as a practice uniform. Which I know many schools do use, but not all. And your statement is just plain silly, of course you wouldn't wear jeans to practice the above sports in, but I haven't lately witnessed any kicking, shooting, or tackling drills going on on the golf course.

[mat562]

Maybe it's me. Maybe it's my upbringing and background. Maybe I'm the grumpy old sod who can generally be found lamenting trivial things and moaning about the state of the world and everything in it. To me, the question of wearing trousers or not wearing trousers to the golf club is a complete nonissue. When you visit the golf course you wear proper clothes and that's the end of it. My son or daughter turning up at the golf course wearing denim jeans - whether or not they're allowed - isn't going to happen. Not with my knowledge or permission anyway. It would simply never occur to me to wear anything else to the golf club and I struggle to see any reason to rebel against the [i]status quo.[/i]

To be fair, the whole argument is a moot point in my part of the world as there simply isn't a golf club (at least that I can think of) where jeans are allowed on the premises. That said, when it comes to the above example I don't disagree with the coach one bit. In fact, I applaud his decision and wholeheartedly agree with it. You can accuse me of reading to much into the issue but, to me, the way that a youngster on a golf team presents himself via his clothing and appearance says a lot about the child. It says a lot about the respective parents or guardians. It says a lot about the school. Turning up in what I would consider as 'accepted' golfing attire (and, further, the way that the clothes are maintained and presented) is simply a prerequisite for anyone representing a team and representing a school, club, county or any other organisation. It would be unthinkable for me for my child to wear jeans or, by extension, to pitch up at the course in scruffy, creased trousers.

As far as I'm concerned, insisting upon a particular dress standard isn't unreasonable. Requiring team members to wear trousers (or suitable shorts) isn't unworkable. It isn't impractical. It's not prohibitively expensive. In the case of a parent who confided in me that they were genuinely struggling to afford some golf clothing in the case of a child who deserved to be on my team, I can honestly say, hand on heart, that as a coach or team manager I would put my hand in my own pocket and stump up the cash. I'd do it happily and, if requested by the parent, I'd do it quietly and be discreet about it. I'd do it because the way that the team looked when they pitched up for a game would be as important to me as the way that they behaved during and after the match and as important as the result. Win or lose, I want people to come away with a positive impression of the team, and in this case the school, and if they look like sack of spuds tied in the middle that's not going to happen. There's a difference between wearing a presentable pair of jeans and wearing something that's inherently scruffy, I grant you, but broadly speaking they fall into the same category for me. Neither is acceptable for wear on a golf course and, as a coach or team manager, I'd fight my corner.

In the case of a child who was prevented from playing on my team by their parents because of the clothing issue, I'd discuss the matter with them and try to reach a solution. Ultimately though, if push came to shove, I'd field a team that didn't include their son or daughter if they were vehemently against my dress requirements and refused to accept them. If a headteacher told me I was being unreasonable, and insisted that I drop the requirement, I'd wish him luck finding my successor. Going too far? Many would say so. I wouldn't.

I've played on several golf teams and in every case a standard of dress and presentation has been expected and required. If a uniform was to be worn, whether top to toe or in the form of a couple of items like a shirt or jumper, it was provided. It was your responsibility to wear it and to make sure that it was worn in a presentable, smart condition. You made sure that you were always in an immaculate state and that you behaved in a way that reflected well upon the team. I was always proud of the various teams of which I've been a member. Part and parcel of representing a club or team has always been - as Peter Alliss so memorably puts it - giving your hair a brush, cleaning under your fingernails and making sure the tie's on straight when the speeches are being knocked out. Again, maybe it's a historical thing. We English like our pomp and ceremony and a golf match involving club, county, national or service teams involves an element of faffing about afterwards when blazers, shirts and ties and nicely bulled shoes are broken out and several boring speeches and toasts are rolled out in the club lounge or the dining room. Whether it's your thing or not, you're on show as a team member and it's expected that you take part and represent the team in a positive fashion. Representing your club, county, country or service is a honour in my book. You should be proud and you should feel special. Making that extra effort when it comes to your clothing and deportment is part and parcel of it all.

What I would also say is that I wholeheartedly agree that etiquette is also vitally important and that the highest standards in that regard should also be expected. Looking immaculate is all for a naught if your behaviour on the course falls short of the required mark and people come away with an impression that your team are rude, arrogant loudmouths who leave unraked bunkers, pockmarked greens and divot strewn fairways in their wake. That's a facet of golf-specific behaviour that's every bit as important as dress.

Maybe I'm becoming a grumpy old git. Perhaps I'm turning into my father? My parents were sticklers for doing things properly and for presentation. My father used to sit me down after school and make me read an encyclopedia, a book, or study a dictionary for an hour before I went out on my bike. I think first impressions count. I was an officer in the Royal Navy for several years. I measured the angles of the shirt sleeves in my locker and spent hours upon hours getting my shoes to the point where they were better than a bathroom mirror for seeing your face in. I still work in a uniformed service now, and I always make sure I'm well turned out as a matter of course. I shake my head when I see youngsters turning up for work in scuffed boots, trousers that look as though they slept in them and shirts that look like they were made by Adidas due to a hamfisted job of ironing creases into the sleeves. It annoys me when supervisors don't pull them up for it. It[i] really[/i] annoys me when the supervisors themselves are in the same sort of state. I tut when I see elementary spelling mistakes and grammatical errors in posts on the site and at work. Misuse of apostrophes makes my temples throb. I can regularly be found lamenting the fact that doing the bare minimum or whatever's easiest seems to be the preferred way of things these days, rather than making that little extra effort to do things properly. My partner calls me 'Sheldon' in homage to the character from a certain TV comedy show who, she swears, was created by someone who has met me. As far as I'm concerned, a team coach that says 'wear whatever you like lads' is part of the [i]can't be bothered[/i] generation. Conversely, a coach who appreciates the value of looking the part and making that extra bit of effort gets a pat on the back from me. His is the team that I admire when I attend a junior golf match. Rightly or wrongly - and many will no doubt say that it [i]is [/i]wrongly - I'm not going to do that if they look like scranbags or turn up wearing jeans.

I apologise for waffling on. We all know that hackneyed saying about opinions being like you-know-whats and there will no doubt be many who'll accuse me of being a dinosaur (at 35) but that's my take on the jeans issue (and on the wider issue of ettiquette and presentation). Rightly or wrongly I believe that what you wear and the way that you wear it says a lot about your attitude and your personaility and I think it speaks volumes about the person concerned. I take on board comments about practicality and local customs (I've been to Oregon in my time, in the autumn, and I struggle to picture a scene from my visit that isn't framed by drizzle) but, at least in my part of the world, I'm sticking with the [i]status quo [/i]and playing my golf in a pair of smart, clean, nicely pressed trousers. My children - if they take to golf - will be doing the same.

Technically, [i]they probably won't. [/i]They're girls. But you get the idea.

[Bomb and Gouge]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' date='04 April 2010 - 12:06 PM' timestamp='1270400806' post='2359927']
I don't think we're on a soccer, basketball, or football board, are we. [/quote]

[quote name='I'] All high school sports have uniform requirements....even at practice.[/quote]

Yeah, we were.

[quote]
And my definition of "uniform" is wearing the same thing, such as a practice uniform. Which I know many schools do use, but not all. And your statement is just plain silly, of course you wouldn't wear jeans to practice the above sports in, but I haven't lately witnessed any kicking, shooting, or tackling drills going on on the golf course.
[/quote]

Just follow the rules and stop making trouble for your kids! I'm sure they have enough to worry about.

[deadsolid...shank]

I will say Matt, that although we may be on opposite sides of the issue at hand. I alway enjoy reading what you have to say, knowing it will be well thought out and well presented. I certainly understand where you are coming from with your thoughts and opinions. Here in my very agricultural section of the midwest, casual is much more prevalent in everyday life. And jeans are very much a central part of that culture.

Obviously there are a lot of strongly held opinions on this issue, and I think there is one thing we can all agree on. One side is not going to change the other's mind.

So with that I'll try to bow out of this thread as gracefully as possible and wish everyone a Happy Easter.

[jaskanski]

[quote name='DL5treez' date='04 April 2010 - 12:13 AM' timestamp='1270336415' post='2358896']

Not everyone who wears jeans to golf is going to wear a sleeveless t-shirt with AC/DC on the front, a backwards Metallica cap, and grubby deck shoes.

[/quote]

Quite true. But at least some sort of dress code would reduce the chances of it [i]actually[/i] happening.
It's rather sad that a dress code has to be enforced, rather than to rely on players to have to own interpretation as to what is or isn't an acceptable form of attire to wear. In a forum that closely follows the antics of the professional circuit, in terms of equipment and the latest gear, I find it rather strange that a certain minority would not want to emulate the pros and wear a similar (if not exact) form of attire whilst attempting to play the game to the same level as they aspire. When was the last time you saw a professional in jeans on the golf course? Probably never. When was the last time you saw a struggling hack play an exotic shaft in a club that cost about the same as 10 pairs of chinos? Every week.
Put me in the same camp as mat562 any day - wearing jeans certainly doesn't mean you're a bad person, but why give anyone the impression that you couldn't care less?

[Bomb and Gouge]

[quote name='jaskanski' date='04 April 2010 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1270403801' post='2359988'] When was the last time you saw a professional in jeans on the golf course?
[/quote]


Besides John Daly?

[jaskanski]

When was the last time you saw a professional in jeans on the golf course?

 

 

Besides John Daly?

 

Owned

But then, he did live in Arkansas for a while...

[xamilo]

[quote name='mat562' date='04 April 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1270402038' post='2359943']
Maybe it's me.
[/quote]

Yes, indeed, it is you

[quote name='mat562' date='04 April 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1270402038' post='2359943']
Maybe it's my upbringing and background.
[/quote]

No, its not. I grew up in a very fancy way and had the NSW Country Club as my "home club" which is the most elite snobbish private country club in NSW, Australia (which doesn't even let you where a cap or shirt which holds advertisement nor logos which are not golf related like a Quicksilver Polo Shirt or a Vineyard Vine's Hat), and still I couldn't care less if people wore jeans. I don't cause he weather is way too hot for doing so, but I have no issue on people doing so as long as they are kind and respectable people.

I do have an issue with snobbish guys talking about the golf tradition being lost and using a 460cc draw biased driver or a Nike Turtle Neck Dry Fit TW jersey.

and I do have an issue with guys who spend US$1500 in their attire to feel more "golfy" or "traditionalist" but lack the minimun respect in the golf course and write down a "par" when they hit a "double bogey" after taking three mulligans but still keeps talking the whole 18 holes about "red-necks" using jeans in the course, or how "newby" the other guy looks because his attire "doesn't match" or is using his only pair of Adidas White Paragon us$29 golf shoes with a dark pair of pants.

[TourBound3617]

I saw a "playing lessons with the pros" with John Daly wearing jeans on a course. but then again, same guy who teed off a beer can...

[Bomb and Gouge]

[quote name='TourBound3617' date='04 April 2010 - 02:35 PM' timestamp='1270409753' post='2360130']
I saw a "playing lessons with the pros" with John Daly wearing jeans on a course. but then again, same guy who teed off a beer can...
[/quote]


I saw one where he was wearing no shirt and no shoes! It was repulsive!

[jaskanski]

[quote name='xamilo' date='04 April 2010 - 08:29 PM' timestamp='1270409349' post='2360123']
[quote name='mat562' date='04 April 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1270402038' post='2359943']
Maybe it's me.
[/quote]

Yes, indeed, it is you

[quote name='mat562' date='04 April 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1270402038' post='2359943']
Maybe it's my upbringing and background.
[/quote]

No, its not. I grew up in a very fancy way and had the NSW Country Club as my "home club" which is the most elite snobbish private country club in NSW, Australia (which doesn't even let you where a cap or shirt which holds advertisement nor logos which are not golf related like a Quicksilver Polo Shirt or a Vineyard Vine's Hat), and still I couldn't care less if people wore jeans. I don't cause he weather is way too hot for doing so, but I have no issue on people doing so as long as they are kind and respectable people.

I do have an issue with snobbish guys talking about the golf tradition being lost and using a 460cc draw biased driver or a Nike Turtle Neck Dry Fit TW jersey.

and I do have an issue with guys who spend US$1500 in their attire to feel more "golfy" or "traditionalist" but lack the minimun respect in the golf course and write down a "par" when they hit a "double bogey" after taking three mulligans but still keeps talking the whole 18 holes about "red-necks" using jeans in the course, or how "newby" the other guy looks because his attire "doesn't match" or is using his only pair of Adidas White Paragon us$29 golf shoes with a dark pair of pants.
[/quote]

How can you say that?
You know nothing of the other poster's upbringing or background other than what he has posted on this forum. You have clearly described your own experiences, but in this case I would reserve your own judgement regarding someone else's background or upbringing until such time as you either meet them in person or at least play a round of golf at their home course. In your best trousers of course.

[mat562]

For what it's worth, someone who wilfully cheats in competition or a stuffed shirt who struts around the place admonishing people (usually unfortunate juniors) for supposed wrongdoings in front of his cronies ranks well above a jeans-wearing golfer on my personal A***hole Rankings.

I don't know anyone who's avoided visting a golf club because they have to stick a pair of trousers on to do so, but I know a few people who have been very reticent about playing at certain courses because they're worried about incurring the wrath of some jumped up little Hitler who thinks he's got a God given right to speak to people like they're vermin whenever the fancy takes him.

[Bomb and Gouge]

What I don't understand is why you would care about what someone else is wearing. In no way does it affect you!

[MU Mike]

[quote name='Bomb and Gouge' date='04 April 2010 - 04:21 PM' timestamp='1270416115' post='2360268']
What I don't understand is why you would care about what someone else is wearing. In no way does it affect you!
[/quote]

Hello pot, meet kettle.

Weren't you criticizing those who wore white belts on another thread? I ask you, "why you would care about what someone else is wearing. In no way does it affect you!"

Seems kind of "douchey" to me.

[ebenn]

No Jeans on the course. I am in digital media in a start-up and wear jeans most days to meetings etc. But never at the club. I actually think I dress nicer on the course!

[Bomb and Gouge]

[quote name='MU Mike' date='06 April 2010 - 11:51 AM' timestamp='1270572711' post='2363754']

Weren't you criticizing those who wore white belts on another thread?
[/quote]


Absolutely not...just worry about yourself, son.

[larrybud]

Does this count as jeans?

If I ran a mid to upscale course I wouldn't allow jeans on my course. Like it or not, image counts. The better the image my course has, the more play I will get, and the more revenue I will make.

Besides image, for me they're too uncomfortable and not very suitable for golf. They're heavy, and I like to walk. They're hot during the summer, and they really don't stretch.

[attachment=571144:kidrock.jpg]

[MU Mike]

[quote name='Bomb and Gouge' date='06 April 2010 - 02:02 PM' timestamp='1270580545' post='2364045']
Absolutely not...just worry about yourself, son.
[/quote]

Really? Hmmm, must have been another clown named Bomb and Gouge, then.

[quote name='Bomb and Gouge' date='31 March 2010 - 05:18 AM' timestamp='1270030714' post='2352111']
HILARIOUS!!!

White belt is code for: "Meet me in the shower after the round."

...so I've heard.
[/quote]

[quote name='Bomb and Gouge' date='31 March 2010 - 07:26 PM' timestamp='1270081575' post='2353703']
Mickelson looks hilarious in his new wardrobe. It seems to get worse every year....along with his mane.
[/quote]

[Jigga]

[quote name='Bomb and Gouge' date='03 April 2010 - 07:38 PM' timestamp='1270341485' post='2359038']
[quote name='mat562' date='03 April 2010 - 09:40 AM' timestamp='1270305601' post='2358272']
Old fashioned? A bit arrogant? Perhaps. But that's the way of it where I play and we like it that way.
[/quote]

Actually the word "douchey" come to mind.



[/quote]

Ha ha ha! +1!

[Bomb and Gouge]

[quote name='MU Mike' date='06 April 2010 - 09:43 PM' timestamp='1270608212' post='2364931']
[quote name='Bomb and Gouge' date='06 April 2010 - 02:02 PM' timestamp='1270580545' post='2364045']
Absolutely not...just worry about yourself, son.
[/quote]

Really? Hmmm, must have been another clown named Bomb and Gouge, then.

[quote name='Bomb and Gouge' date='31 March 2010 - 05:18 AM' timestamp='1270030714' post='2352111']
HILARIOUS!!!

White belt is code for: "Meet me in the shower after the round."

...so I've heard.
[/quote]

[quote name='Bomb and Gouge' date='31 March 2010 - 07:26 PM' timestamp='1270081575' post='2353703']
Mickelson looks hilarious in his new wardrobe. It seems to get worse every year....along with his mane.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Stalker!




You clearly have no sense of humor. But hey, I'd rather be a clown than a surly curmudgeon.

[kiwidave]

I can't believe this thread got to 16 pages. I dare someone to go and read from post #1 to this one and not at one point not want to punch the screen.

[dan360]

[quote name='jaskanski' date='04 April 2010 - 10:56 AM' timestamp='1270403801' post='2359988']
[quote name='DL5treez' date='04 April 2010 - 12:13 AM' timestamp='1270336415' post='2358896']

Not everyone who wears jeans to golf is going to wear a sleeveless t-shirt with AC/DC on the front, a backwards Metallica cap, and grubby deck shoes.

[/quote]

Quite true. But at least some sort of dress code would reduce the chances of it [i]actually[/i] happening.
It's rather sad that a dress code has to be enforced, rather than to rely on players to have to own interpretation as to what is or isn't an acceptable form of attire to wear. In a forum that closely follows the antics of the professional circuit, in terms of equipment and the latest gear, I find it rather strange that a certain minority would not want to emulate the pros and wear a similar (if not exact) form of attire whilst attempting to play the game to the same level as they aspire. When was the last time you saw a professional in jeans on the golf course? Probably never. When was the last time you saw a struggling hack play an exotic shaft in a club that cost about the same as 10 pairs of chinos? Every week.
Put me in the same camp as mat562 any day - wearing jeans certainly doesn't mean you're a bad person, but why give anyone the impression that you couldn't care less?
[/quote]

I wear the correct attire at the courses that require it; it is no issue for me to wear the proper clothing.

What bugs me--and you and mat562 among some others are excluded from most of this--is the attitude on this site by a few, stating those who wear jeans are somehow less of a person than those who don't wear them.

Chambers Bay up here--awesome course, going to host the 2010 U.S. Amateur and the 2015 U.S. Open. It will probably get more professional and amateur majors as time goes on.

She's owned by Pierce County, very much a public course, jeans are allowed. I played there in a golfwrx foursome last winter, and a few more times during the year. I wore slacks and a collared shirt each time. Why? Out of my own personal respect for the golf course. Hundreds of people wore jeans that day. Did I look down on them? Nope, sure didn't.

I could care less what people wear as long as they conduct themselves properly. It is too bad so many people judge others and hide behind "golf tradition" while they do it.....

[tElihu]

Jeans all the time...but not on a golf course.