Non-Conforming Hi-COR Drivers

[Goldenhawk]

Use in Work-Related Tournaments

I own two Hi-COR Drivers: a TaylorMade R7XR and Callaway ERC Hot. Both drivers easily hit well past anything put out here in the US. I've gone back to using these drivers recently......probably out of spite for USGA's groove rule and such.

My question is the legality of using of these drivers in work-related tournaments. This year, I intend to use them in tournaments held by associations that are related to my work. Would they care? Should they care? Would anyone be knowledgeable enough to know? I can easily place a regular R7 or R9 headcover on the R7XR and a FT5 or FT9 headcover on the ERC Hot.

[duffer888]

Will you win anything? If so, I would care. If I was a client/customer and I discovered you were using a non-conforming driver to win money/prizes, I'd question your ethics -- "He cheats on the course, has he cheated me in business?"

If it is just for fun, eh, who cares. Just don't think your score counts or razz me about outdriving me.

[Goldenhawk]

[quote name='duffer888' date='22 March 2010 - 12:54 PM' timestamp='1269276850' post='2333276']
Will you win anything? If so, I would care. If I was a client/customer and I discovered you were using a non-conforming driver to win money/prizes, I'd question your ethics -- "He cheats on the course, has he cheated me in business?"

If it is just for fun, eh, who cares. Just don't think your score counts or razz me about outdriving me.
[/quote]

I, or my team, could win something. I just don't see myself or any of us winning the long drive contest. I just don't see anyone knowing about using a non-conforming driver. Especially if there are others playing with cheap box sets, and who knows what else, on the course.

[sksmall]

It's not about whether or not anybody else knows. It's about playing the game the right way, by the rules laid out. If you're just goofing around, go for it, but don't post a score or compete in a tournament with it.

[HeadonaStick]

It's cheating, and I'd call you on it and wouldn't play with you a second time.

Whether or not you get caught, it is still against the rules and cheating. The fact that you don't think anyone will catch you tells me something as well - if it weren't a big deal it wouldn't matter if you'd get caught. Besides, the measure of the man isn't what he does when someone is watching, it's what he does when nobody is watching.

[kesler]

You will know

[mat562]

You could easily use a foot wedge, move your marker on the greens or doctor your scorecard before handing it in too. The chances are you'd get away with it. Why stop at using a hot faced driver?

Sorry to sound harsh, but wilfully using a non-conforming driver in competition and going as far as to disguise the fact with a cunningly chosen headcover is not a million miles away from those other forms of cheating in my book. The headcover ruse is particularly unsavoury. The rules say you can't use that particular club and, if you do, you're cheating. Proper cheating. Not Scott McCarron's version.

I appreciate your disdain for the new groove rule. I share it. But wilfully using a driver that's been non-conforming under the rules for some time isn't the best way of challenging the stupidity and intransigence of the USGA (or R&A). Whether it's a work outing or the US Amateur Championship, you have a responsibilty to the rest of the field to do things properly. Unless there's some sort of agreement that anything goes, equipment-wise, on the day and you don't hand in the cards for handicapping purposes I'm 100% against the idea.

Five extra yards off the tee mean a lot less to me than my reputation and my integrity do.

[dasbill]

Oh come on. He's just wanting to win golf stuff from his work/ coworkers that don't play golf but on these outings. I understand what you are doing, it wouldn't bother me to do that, but any other tournament would just be wrong. To the winner goes the spoils. This is probably a scramble format anyway.

[afbrad1113]

Chances are know one will know. BUT if you get one informed guy out there (could even be another Wrx'er) you run the risk of getting called out. I am a very competitive guy and am gracious in defeat as long as I was beaten by skill and not a technological advantage. If I was in a competitive golf environment, no matter how laid back, and I saw a non conforming driver I would call the guy a cheater. This is just my opinion but I think it has to do with a respect for the game and the rules set forth by the USGA.

[j-rob]

OP, you came to the wrong place to present this scenario. It would be incredibly unethical to use one of those drivers in a tournament and it is even worse that you are looking for encouragement from the forum. However if you can live with it, then go right ahead.

[dasbill]

Goldenhawk, are these people that just play because they have some clubs and get out of work. Or just to entertain customers?

[Goldenhawk]

[quote name='dasbill' date='22 March 2010 - 08:07 PM' timestamp='1269302850' post='2334304']
Goldenhawk, are these people that just play because they have some clubs and get out of work. Or just to entertain customers?
[/quote]

It's a scramble format tournament where mulligans galore are bought, or sort of bought, and weird rules apply like free hits out of sand bunkers. Half the field is tanked with alcohol and hitting golf balls into parking lots and adjacent roads. I've seen non-conforming drivers played in it before. Not the hot-COR JDM stuff, but things along the lines of the Golfsmith 1K Driver. It's really not my type of tournament but since i have to do it for work, I figured just make the most of it.

I have a bunch of legal drivers, but since I figured that weird stuff happens at this tournaments, all bets would be off.

[Guia]

Why don't you just count one less shot on each hole? Cheating is cheating.

[dasbill]

Sounds like you were looking for an excuse to buy another driver. lol

[PAYLEE]

If you can keep it in the fairway more power to you...Buuut I wouldn't condone it.

[Goldenhawk]

[quote name='dasbill' date='22 March 2010 - 08:20 PM' timestamp='1269303636' post='2334338']
Sounds like you were looking for an excuse to buy another driver. lol
[/quote]

I don't think the wife woul buy that excuse considering a already have thre, four or so conforming drivers.

[Robbky40]

I faced the same decision this year. For starters I am a short hitter (275 when I hit it pure) and it bugs the crap out of me. In my foursome on Saturdays there is 1 guy who blows it by me 20 yards even when I hit my driver flush, 40 if I miss . It is demoralizing. I realize the insanity of worrying about it but it bugs me. I try to not be a egomaniac but when I see others hitting the ball that far I still believe I can improve. However in the end I chose to try and find the best legal driver for me and max out whatever ability I have. I play in tournaments and regular games with friends for skins. I do believe you can gain 20 yards by choosing the right club. Heres the problem. It is an expensive ride to get there for most people. I am right in the middle of that journey now. I am $1000 in for driver experiments and still don't have the right one. In the end I know I will be glad that I am not cheating. What made it worse was my wife pointing out the rules of competition in scripture. That was the end of the discussion for me. Good luck with your choice.

[SoCalTitleist]

On those scrambles where you can buy mulligans and guys driving balls 350 yrds I say go for it, some jackass team is gonna shoot like some ridiculous score like 51 or something.

Like someone else mentioned not the best place to ask a question like this. your gonna get flamed by all the saints on here.

[Yuck]

If you want to rationalize using an illegal driver on the basis that all kind of strange practices are done as part of the event, then be open about it. Let everyone know you are using a non conforming driver. If your team collects a prize, donate it back to the door prize drawing. I don't think the others would have an issue with it if your were not a sneak about it. It sounds like all of the other strange elements to this event are out in the open, not secretly done for only a select few.

[azone]

OP, using that driver would say something negative about you. Do you want people in your business or trade organization forming that opinion?

[arnolds17]

for 5 to 10 yards I would not even think about it.

[wfrogge1]

[quote name='Goldenhawk' date='22 March 2010 - 08:17 PM' timestamp='1269303452' post='2334328']
[quote name='dasbill' date='22 March 2010 - 08:07 PM' timestamp='1269302850' post='2334304']
Goldenhawk, are these people that just play because they have some clubs and get out of work. Or just to entertain customers?
[/quote]

It's a scramble format tournament where mulligans galore are bought, or sort of bought, and weird rules apply like free hits out of sand bunkers. Half the field is tanked with alcohol and hitting golf balls into parking lots and adjacent roads. I've seen non-conforming drivers played in it before. Not the hot-COR JDM stuff, but things along the lines of the Golfsmith 1K Driver. It's really not my type of tournament but since i have to do it for work, I figured just make the most of it.

I have a bunch of legal drivers, but since I figured that weird stuff happens at this tournaments, all bets would be off.
[/quote]


If all bets are off just sign your name on the long drive marker and move it out to 350 yards or so. Why waste money buying the driver? Either way you are cheating

[Ian]

I was going to say what "yuck" mentioned above. It sounds like it's just a hackers tourney for fun and perhaps charity. So, go into it with that in mind and tell everyone you just want to have some fun with a non conforming driver. If anyone raises an eyebrow, I'd park the thing in the trunk and go to my gamer.
It would haunt me to think that months down the road I could meet up with one or more of the tourney players, perhaps for business and one of them says, "hey, aren't you the guy with the illegal driver?" That would not start the meeting off on a good note.
Let your conscience be the deciding factor.

[HCEG1]

The ERC Hot Tour ( 8* & 9*) is a conforming head, according to the latest USGA & R&A list


http://www.randa.org/~/media/RandA/Equipment%20Documents/ConformingClubList_M.ashx?date=03%2bJul%2b2011

Callaway Golf Co. ERC HOT Tour 8,9 "SOLE: (curved line), E•R•C,
HOT, (loft) TOUR, (Chevron
logo insert)BACK: Callaway,
GOLFTOE: (line), FUSION,
(line), TECHNOLOGYCROWN:
(Chevron logo alignment
mark

[jmvargas]

i bought 2 non-conforming tourstage drivers last year from ebay because they were cheap and i wanted to see if they really made any difference vs the conforming tourstage ones i had...

never once did i entertain the thought of using them in competition.....but that's just me..

[elwhippy]

Can you sleep easily at night? I had an issue with a player in a comp last year. Turns up with an old HCor Cobra and calls me a £$%&* because I mentioned it. He didn't even apologise when our comps secretary gave him a dressing down. Honesty prevails in Golf, take it away and we have nothing.

[Guia]

Cheat!

[reg1900]

[quote name='jmvargas' timestamp='1309789649' post='3363272']
i bought 2 non-conforming tourstage drivers last year from ebay because they were cheap and i wanted to see if they really made any difference vs the conforming tourstage ones i had...

never once did i entertain the thought of using them in competition.....but that's just me..
[/quote]


How much of a difference was there?

Anyone heard of that company that shaves driver faces? If you really want to cheat without being caught I'd imagine that's the way to go, you would have a driver that appears conforming but isn't.

[neudles]

Well, the way I see it is if its a work tournament the rules will be relaxed that day, also I can bet you any money most of the people at this tournament will not even know what COR is meanwhile what is legal and what is not.
My $.02

[A V Twiss]

By the sound of it with all these mulligans and free shots out of sand traps the organisers don't appear to be running a tournament under the USGA rules. I would suggest that your tournament is more like a social round of golf with prizes thrown in. In that case, if feel there is little harm in using a hot driver but I would be up front about it and check. If the organisers have no objections then go for it. I am not comfortable with hiding the fact by using a different head cover. That's deceit.

FWIW I never owned a hot driver that was longer than my previous driver (Ping G15) or my current driver (Taylormade R11)