Overwatering Courses

[nuhusky41]

This is half rant/half question.

 

I just got finished playing 27 today at a Chicago-area course and I finally have realized my ultimate pet-peeve regarding golf courses (particularly in the midwest, I'm from Cincinnati originally). It seems like nearly every course that I play on over-saturates the course to the point where the fairways are soggy and low points in the rough are near standing water.

 

I understand that we have had a rough summer in regards to weather for the conditions to grow the courses into proper shape, but this has been an on-going problem I have noticed over the past several years. It may just be my preference, but I would rather have courses that are slightly firm and I notice that it really effects wedge shots in particular (because it digs through the turn regardless of high bounce or not).

 

Also, since many courses are struggling financially in these times, cutting back on the use of sprinklers would be a way for courses to save some money.

 

Is it such a fine line between keeping the course lightly watered/firm and killing the grass completely, or have we just fallen in love with the idea that every fairway has to look as green as Augusta in order to be thought of as in good playing condition?

 

What are some of your thoughts regarding the proper use of sprinklers/water?

 

/Rant - Off

[larrybud]

I think I ranted on this twice this season. Worst problem for sure for the courses in SE Michigan. Cheap water, and people who believe that green=healthy.

I wrote a letter to my club because I was tired of the mud balls throughout all of summer. The instance that did it for me was a ball that plugged into the green on a par 3. It makes no sense. I don't care how dry the summer has been, it doesn't mean you soak the soil til it muds up. Then we have courses that are roping off areas because they water them so much that damage is done by the carts. One of the qualifying courses for the now defunct Buick Open, Fieldstone Golf Course, is notorious for over watering.

Another muni that I play a league on Monday's was like that throughout most of the year. Thankfully, a golf management company took them over in July and they've noticeably have cut back on water.

[honketyhank]

The course where I used to play watered aggressively to make sure that the greens were really green. One Friday evening a valve broke in the system and over the weekend some of the greens got no water. Those greens died. I mean DIED. Dead. Leaving dead areas for months.

I am not an agronomist, so I don't understand how lack of water for one weekend can kill a green. But I have been told by folks who profess to know grass that if you over water, the grass roots do not grow down to seek moisture -- they stay near the surface to suck up moisture from above. And if you then deprive them of moisture, well, then the grass just dries up in very short order.

I suspect it is a very delicate balance between overwatering and underwatering. I am glad I do not have to make the call. But I do know that I did not enjoy putting on those greens that died after the sprinklers failed for only 3 days.

[BadBilly429]

definetely not here to defend any michigan courses, because as said in the earlier post most of them overwater, however Michigan had a funky winter last year, cold, warm, cold, warm alot of cold winds and frost, and alot of the nice courses and clubs around here didnt tarp their greens and alot of them got damaged and burned up real bad, and even some fairways on some of the public courses were brown into the end of July. Indianwood was one of these due to costs did not cover their greens this past winter and because of it had temporary greens in the spring and into the beginning of summer they had to water the crap out of them this year to get them back before the usga comes in there next summer and tells them they have to replace or re seed the greens before the 2012 senior open. Shepperds hollow also had 3 temporary greens in the spring and beginning of summer due to the harsh winter and not covering the greens due to cost.

[apprenti23]

I would speak to the superintendent at the specific facilities as they would give you the best answer as to why they are using what is in your words "too much water." If you're not in the business of growing/maintaining grass at extremely low heights than I'm not sure you know what is enough water. It seems to me that if there is standing water, then there is a draining issue and not an over-watering issue. I see you're from Chicago, have you ever played Harborside International? They have to constantly water their course due to the fact of the soil type that it has been built on. When you hit the fairways there, you get almost no roll whatsoever. Is it due to over-watering? Not at all. That has to do with how that facility is designed. Most of the damage that golf courses have had over this summer is due to too much water at certain times where there was extreme heat. Tree-lined golf courses seemed to get the brunt of this terrible summer, but that is because they could not get enough circulation in there to cool down and dry out the turf that had water on it. Hand watering was a common occurrence at golf courses throughout the year. Were they over-watering? Goodness no. They couldn't get enough water through their irrigation systems to hit specific problem areas.
I don't know what to tell you other than asking those whose job it is in maintaining the facilities you play at to give you the proper answer.

[astamm8]

I'm no agronomist, but I certainly think that the majority of courses in my area, Indiana, over water. I love playing fast firm courses. I don't mind very dry courses, and I don't mind brownish grass either. I find it strange that I can't find a course anywhere around that plays fast and firm on a regular basis when it's dry here in the summer. And, if my memory is sharp, courses used to play faster 10-15 years ago.

Personally, I think a lot of golfers want green courses where the ball stops quickly on the green, and the courses provide what the customers want.

[teejaywhy]

Certainly there may be specific reasons why a specific course might need to be kept in a wet state, and if you take away the uncontrollable weather variable, I think that [i]generally speaking[/i], too many courses are over watered and the reason is solely related to the presentation. 98% of the golfing public wants green and doesn't mind soft conditions.

Personally, I think soft conditions limit the types of shots that can be played, taking away the ground game and turning golf into a strictly aerial attack. It is kind of sad because most of the time when you encounter a design that encourages the use of the ground and thereby promoting imagination in the choice of shots, that style is thwarted by too soft conditions.

The other sad thing is that many modern designers create layouts that can only be played in this aerial manner, even if the conditions allow the ground game, there may be no benefit. These are particularly boring courses to play.

If only more people were to experience the joys that come from playing a course that offers strategies that include the use of the ground and is maintained firm and fast, we can move toward a more traditional and more FUN style of golf.

[birdieboy52]

[quote name='nuhusky41' timestamp='1285024500' post='2706096']
This is half rant/half question.

I just got finished playing 27 today at a Chicago-area course and I finally have realized my ultimate pet-peeve regarding golf courses (particularly in the midwest, I'm from Cincinnati originally). It seems like nearly every course that I play on over-saturates the course to the point where the fairways are soggy and low points in the rough are near standing water.

I understand that we have had a rough summer in regards to weather for the conditions to grow the courses into proper shape, but this has been an on-going problem I have noticed over the past several years. It may just be my preference, but I would rather have courses that are slightly firm and I notice that it really effects wedge shots in particular (because it digs through the turn regardless of high bounce or not).

Also, since many courses are struggling financially in these times, cutting back on the use of sprinklers would be a way for courses to save some money.

Is it such a fine line between keeping the course lightly watered/firm and killing the grass completely, or have we just fallen in love with the idea that every fairway has to look as green as Augusta in order to be thought of as in good playing condition?

What are some of your thoughts regarding the proper use of sprinklers/water?

/Rant - Off
[/quote]


What course did you play?

[nuhusky41]

I played Prairie Bluff Golf Course in Lockport, but another course that was very wet (and in awful condition) was St. Andrews CC in West Chicago>

[ruascott]

I realize this is an old thread, but this is an ongoing issue. My courses waters at absurd levels. If you play in the morning the fairways are like walking on sponges. You end up taking divots the size of a small dog....if you are even lucky enough to not chunk it. There is next to no roll...and even standing water in many areas. I'd almost prefer playing approach shots out of the rough it's so bad. One hole they have now roped off for carts, because it's so wet. All in the middle of a record drought. I know it's hot, and they can't let the bent grass burn, but this is ridiculous.

Played a nice private course this weekend, same grass on the fairways. Yes they were a little soft, but nothing that you wouldn't expect. Drives would actually hit and run some.

[Shemp]

We have the opposite problem in Central Mass. Our courses are limited as to how much water they can pump out of the acquifer. Once they hit the limit for the month they can pump no more. Our rough is burning out pretty good right now and there are some brown patches in the fairways. Prime effort right now is protecting the greens and tee boxes.

[dpark]

Even though this is an older post, HonketyHank and I play at the same facility now. The prior superintendant also equated "good" with "green" and always overwatered the course. We have three par 4s that are 450+ and under the old super, you could not run the ball onto the green which turned those three holes into par 5s for most folks.

When they finally let him go, the new guy drastically cut back on the water till the point where the fairways has patches of brown and the balls hit the ground running like a scalded dog.

However this past year the fairways started getting overwatered again and I asked a member on the greens committee what was going on. Apparently the super got lots of angry emails from other members that "the course was dying" and he acquiesed and started over watering again. You just can't make everyone happy. I agree with the earlier post that Augusta has ruined it for lots of clubs who don't realize just how much money it takes to have a course that green but also hard and fast.

Personally, I didn't get the religion until I went to Scotland and Ireland for golf. It was only after that trip that really appreciated a nice brown course

Its a difficult battle when you have people who think that only a green course is a good course.

[greg c]

Good post, dpark...it's an impossible battle, and it's the reason why most courses are overwatered. The problem is idiot golfers that would rather b**** and moan about something instead of actually trying to learn and understand why less water is more. I fought the battle for a while, but ultimately lost. It was fun while it lasted.

[Big Ben]

We've had SO LITTLE rain in northern Ohio this season that courses simply can't keep everything overwatered right now, it's been such a treat to play hard and fast courses again...BB

[RookieBlue7]

Lots of this watering comes from the types of grass, especially on the greens.

A good example would be my home course prior to closing due to foreclosure (has since been bought by a different group, the GM is the same and some of the grounds crew are the same, but they actually have money to work on the course with now) and the local CC. Before, every summer in late July through early August, the greens at my home course (pre-foreclosure) would DIE in large spots. The local CC's has never died that I know of. The differences? The local CC hand waters the greens, in part to help keep the ground moist, but also in large part to cool the greens. My home course NEVER watered throughout the day and had them on timers to run at night. Both have bent grass greens (which has to be kept cool or it dies), one died, the other didn't. Home course had fans (UGLY and UNSIGHTLY and DID NOTHING but move hot air). Georgia has an awful climate for bent because it does get so hot here. You have to keep bent cool so it'll live. Since the renovation and new ownership at the home course, they check the greens all throughout the day and are watering throughout the day. Gone are the days of dead spots on the greens so far (just reopened this year, and the grass looks healthier than it has in a decade). This time 2 years ago, the greens at my home course would've started dying already.

The fairways, I don't know as much about, because the mixture of grasses that are on them are foreign to me. But they are watering them more now as well, hand watering all of them in hot spots, and they've said much the same, to keep them cool. They've also cut a lot of trees already with plans to cut more to allow more air movement around the course (lots of dead air space at my home course).

Sounds like your courses where it's soggy are watering too much, yes, but it also sounds like it's in an effort to keep them from dying out, they're just overdoing the cooling. Walk in and talk face to face with the GM and express your concerns. Grass that stays saturated will develop fungus and it's near impossible to kill out without heavy chemical treatment, and can be spread to the greens and kill them. Express your concerns in person and I'm sure you'll get much further than you would writing a letter or whatever method one would contact the GM.

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='dpark' timestamp='1342655490' post='5303668']
Even though this is an older post, HonketyHank and I play at the same facility now. The prior superintendant also equated "good" with "green" and always overwatered the course. We have three par 4s that are 450+ and under the old super, you could not run the ball onto the green which turned those three holes into par 5s for most folks.

When they finally let him go, the new guy drastically cut back on the water till the point where the fairways has patches of brown and the balls hit the ground running like a scalded dog.

However this past year the fairways started getting overwatered again and I asked a member on the greens committee what was going on. Apparently the super got lots of angry emails from other members that "the course was dying" and he acquiesed and started over watering again. You just can't make everyone happy. I agree with the earlier post that Augusta has ruined it for lots of clubs who don't realize just how much money it takes to have a course that green but also hard and fast.

Personally, I didn't get the religion until I went to Scotland and Ireland for golf. It was only after that trip that really appreciated a nice brown course

Its a difficult battle when you have people who think that only a green course is a good course.
[/quote]

It's a fair assessment that most supers want to keep their job, so they maintain the course as directed by the management/membership.

This embrace of the green presentation and the resulting soft conditions has entrenched itself into the American golf culture over the last forty years or so. Most golfers don't know any different.

Change is an uphill battle. Start by finding the few members that agree with you, then work to educate and build a consensus. There will always be those that won't change their outlook no matter, but most people are willing to learn and if you can slowly change the view one by one, you might start by getting yourself or someone who shares your outlook on the greens committee. Then the next step is getting a majority of the committee to understand the benefits of firm and fast.

Good luck!

[ruascott]

Had this discussion, and agree the big difference is the hand watering or the lack thereof. The private clubs around here hand water a lot, greens and fairways. The publics just turn on the irrigation and soak everything.

[Noles]

Here is a link to an article about this very topic. He is from my home club.

http://www.gapgolfmag-digital.org/gapgolf/2012spring/m2

[golfheaven69]

Head to NC. You will not complain about too much water in July. Fast and firm.

[Thrillhouse]

I agree, my club has no sense of humor when it comes to my habit of running naked through the sprinklers on a warm summers morning while seniors day is teeing off.