Swing weight factors in relation to parts

[Full Melt]

I'm still learning all this stuff, so I apologize for any dumb questions haha

 

According the OP, 1/2" off the club is 3 sw points? I hacked 1/2" off my 3-wood yesterday and the part I cut off only weighed 1.15 grams. Can somebody explainlikeim5 why this is 3 sw points? Or am I just missing something?

[Stuart_G]

I'm still learning all this stuff, so I apologize for any dumb questions haha

 

According the OP, 1/2" off the club is 3 sw points? I hacked 1/2" off my 3-wood yesterday and the part I cut off only weighed 1.15 grams. Can somebody explainlikeim5 why this is 3 sw points? Or am I just missing something?

 

Swing weight and static weight are very different things. The reduction in SW is purely from the length reduction and the fact that the head weight moves 1/2" closer to the swing weight fulcrum or balance point so has a smaller moment arm.

[Full Melt]

I'm still learning all this stuff, so I apologize for any dumb questions haha

 

According the OP, 1/2" off the club is 3 sw points? I hacked 1/2" off my 3-wood yesterday and the part I cut off only weighed 1.15 grams. Can somebody explainlikeim5 why this is 3 sw points? Or am I just missing something?

 

Swing weight and static weight are very different things. The reduction in SW is purely from the length reduction and the fact that the head weight moves 1/2" closer to the swing weight fulcrum or balance point so has a smaller moment arm.

 

Ah, I see. Makes sense. Thanks

[panther73]

Why are manufacturers making driver heads so heavy?

 

I just bought a swingweight scale and am trying to add consistency through the bag by getting my clubs reasonably close to each other and ascending in weight from driver through wedge.

 

Even with relatively light shafts and short lengths it's hard to get my driver down below D3 or D4. I measured the static weight and it's around 200 grams which seems to be about average for driver heads. Seems much more reasonable to put weight ports and the option for a very light (as light as possible) cover for the port and then ascending weight in 5 gram increments. But, realistically if you're going to run a shaft over 60 grams it seems there's no way to get under D5 or D6 without counterweighting.

 

I love the ball flight of my hybrids, but I achieve that through heavy shafts. As a result they have very high swingweight. If I gain a point or two through the bag my irons and wedges would have to be in the E range. Seems ridiculous.

 

You said it yourself, your head weight is around 200 gm which is completely normal and has been for a while. The problem isn't that the driver head weight is high, the problem in keeping the SW down is that the lengths have been getting longer and longer. Instead of going lighter with the head, you are much better off going shorter with the playing length - especially if better consistency is your goal.

 

Actually I'm very consistent and like the extra distance of the longer shaft, just don't want a driver at E swingweight.

 

Just seems like it would be pretty easy to put options for adding weight and a lot easier than removing it.

 

I've got a few projects I'm going to play with to try and get my woods reasonably well matched, just defies logic that woods are playing heavier than wedges these days.

So Matt, what don't you like about counter weighting in a driver? There's a few shafts out currently that do help with swingweight. The hzrdus yellow or Kiyoshi HB come to mind. I also have a black reign prototype that has a bit of backweighting.

Also, I agree with you on the driver length. I'm so tired of seeing good shafts that I would purchase show up here for sale only to read that they are glorified 3 wood shafts. Lol. Why give up distance by cutting the shaft down? Just work on your swing and groove it with a longer shaft :) or....here's a lovely thought....why don't you guys who like a 44 or 44.5 inch long driver take a 45.5 inch driver and grip down an inch? Then you don't have to cut the shaft down and someone like me could buy it when you want to sell it. Hahahahaha

I feel the same way in regards to shaft length, my max length is 45 inches, but usually grip down a inch, inch and a half for 90% of driver tee shots, 100% of drivers off the deck. Swing weight D-8 or so, minus 6 points for 1 inch grip down, minus 1 point for grip cap "counterweight". Loading of the shaft is greatly influenced by the shaft flex with enough head weight to "flex" the shaft. Addressing the 2 wraps under listing, when I re-grip various iron shafts, Butt diameter must be considered, and for those shafts that have 1 or 2 steps under the grip, additional wraps over each step down to make the grip area consistent to make the grip stretch the exact amount I prefer.

[markjinc]

I need some help from the pros here - I'm looking at changing my grips from 3 wraps of tape and a Pure DTX midsize weighing 60 grams to 2 wraps of tape and a Golfpride MCC Plus 4 Midsize at 66 grams. How much will this effect swingweight and what can I do to counteract the effect if anything? Thanks.

[Stuart_G]

I need some help from the pros here - I'm looking at changing my grips from 3 wraps of tape and a Pure DTX midsize weighing 60 grams to 2 wraps of tape and a Golfpride MCC Plus 4 Midsize at 66 grams. How much will this effect swingweight and what can I do to counteract the effect if anything? Thanks.

 

Might reduce what the SW scale reads by 1 SW pt - but for the vast majority of golfers grip side changes can (and should) be ignored. So go ahead and make the change w/o any additional adjustments and test the club out first.

[skajaquada77]

Great info here!

[hogan1]

Changing from 95 g steel shafts to 68 g graphite shafts in irons will do what to the swing weight? And how do I counter that to come as close as possible to the original s/w of D2?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[Stuart_G]

Changing from 95 g steel shafts to 68 g graphite shafts in irons will do what to the swing weight? And how do I counter that to come as close as possible to the original s/w of D2?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

Could do anything - it depends as much on how the shaft balance point changes as it does the weight change. Of all the "rules of thumb" at the beginning of this thread, the one about shaft weight is the most useless.

 

second, when changing shaft weight that much, you don't really want to reproduce the swing weight exactly, you want to refit your self for swing weight with the new shaft weight instead of using the old sw value.

 

When you do find out (measure on a SW scale when dry fitting), tip weight are the standard method for adjusting SW.

[hogan1]

Thanks Stuart. I don't necessarily want to reproduce the s/w. I'd be quite happy to arrive anywhere between C9 and D2. I just don't want it to be heavier (C9 used to be standard when I took up the game some 40+ years ago). Guess I just get one shaft and fit it in a 7 iron and see what happens....

[jflores8]

Have a G400, installed an aftermarket shaft and swing weight is D5, trying to get it down to D4. Without removing the grip, what length of HD 1/2" lead tape would I need to add just below the grip to get it down to D4?

[Armour248]

Purchased some lead tape today and it states that 4" of tape will increase the club 1 swing weight. I'm trying to add the tape to a putter. Does that mean that 4" is only 2 grams?

[Stuart_G]

Purchased some lead tape today and it states that 4" of tape will increase the club 1 swing weight. I'm trying to add the tape to a putter. Does that mean that 4" is only 2 grams?

 

Yes. Standard density 1/2" wide lead tape is typically 1/2 gm per inch. A higher density version (1 gm per inch) is also readily available (and IMO) more useful.

[Armour248]

Yes. Standard density 1/2" wide lead tape is typically 1/2 gm per inch. A higher density version (1 gm per inch) is also readily available (and IMO) more useful.

 

Damn...yeah, definitely going to need 1g/in tape. Might have to adjust my plan anyway since I was hoping to add 15-20 grams to a putter head haha

[panther73]

If you build the overall weight of a putter to make it heavier but the swingweight remains the same (bigger grip + lead tape on bottom of head) will you putt more balls past..? I cannot figure it out. I would imagine more weight behind the ball would hit it further but dont know how it relates with swingweight. Thanks!

 

Theory states that more mass will increase force, given equal speed, but my experience is more head weight with more grip weight slows the speed of the stroke, giving me, personally, more precise ball speed as it takes more force from me to make small change in ball speed. Back in the day, there were Jumbo grips and Tiger grips to increase grip size and reduce small muscle involvement. Back then I would use lead tape to give back some of the swingweight feel, not all. The last 23 years I joined a club with West Coast Poa greens, Stimp speeds of 10 in the winter, 14 in the summer. Not unusual for a 10 foot putt to have a 15-20 foot starting line, or to start a putt away from a hole to attempt to control speed so it stops less than 10 feet past. So I estimate my head weights have increased to 380 grams or so, with 55-60 gram Super Stroke 5.0 Fatso, other putters have smaller versions of this brand, 3.0; 2.0. So experiment with your putter using heavier weights in the head, weather that is lead tape or heavier sole inserts, find what your experience is and proceed from there.

[skajaquada77]

So here's my question,

Building a set using Mizuno's MX-23 Forged Irons. Switching from a heavy shaft (130g R) to Modus 3 NS Pro 105g (S). New Lamkin grips Midsize.

Since I am installing new Ferrules too, I am going old school for weights with powder and corks.

Without adding any weight I am getting SW of anywhere from C4 to C7...

I have a digital scale so I am pretty accurate on the powder I am adding.

Questions:

1-how much is too much weight to add to the hosel? At what point should I say, thats enough, and instead add weight to the back of the clubhead with Lead Tape?

2- I see the point of adding lead tape to the head in a balanced manner, or shifting weight towards the toe or heel for bias... but if I have to add 20 grams to bring up the SW to lets say D2, whats the difference in ball flight and feeling between adding 20 g all to the hosel with powder or 10 to hosel with powder and 10 to clubhead with Lead tape?

 

[Stuart_G]

1-how much is too much weight to add to the hosel? At what point should I say, thats enough, and instead add weight to the back of the clubhead with Lead Tape?

2- I see the point of adding lead tape to the head in a balanced manner, or shifting weight towards the toe or heel for bias... but if I have to add 20 grams to bring up the SW to lets say D2, whats the difference in ball flight and feeling between adding 20 g all to the hosel with powder or 10 to hosel with powder and 10 to clubhead with Lead tape?

 

1. When you run out of lead powder.

 

2. The difference might be a 1-2 mm of movement of the c.g. of the head for the long irons and less for the short irons. Is the consistency of your impact position tight enough that you think you'd notice that little difference in the c.g.?

 

3. True SW should generally be measured/calculated based on a 50 gm grip, not the midsize you've chosen. So you likely wont need as much weight as you think.

[skajaquada77]

1-how much is too much weight to add to the hosel? At what point should I say, thats enough, and instead add weight to the back of the clubhead with Lead Tape?

2- I see the point of adding lead tape to the head in a balanced manner, or shifting weight towards the toe or heel for bias... but if I have to add 20 grams to bring up the SW to lets say D2, whats the difference in ball flight and feeling between adding 20 g all to the hosel with powder or 10 to hosel with powder and 10 to clubhead with Lead tape?

 

1. When you run out of lead powder.

 

2. The difference might be a 1-2 mm of movement of the c.g. of the head for the long irons and less for the short irons. Is the consistency of your impact position tight enough that you think you'd notice that little difference in the c.g.?

 

3. True SW should generally be measured/calculated based on a 50 gm grip, not the midsize you've chosen. So you likely wont need as much weight as you think.

 

Thanks Stuart!

 

I suspected those were the answers. So I should be ok with a C8-C9 when I was initially shooting for D0-D1, just because of the grips, right? I do not think I would be able to tell the difference myself anyway.

I will load up the hosel of each iron to have similar SW thru the sets. Once put together, any changes in feeling/ball flight will have to be altered by adding the tape.

 

 

[Stuart_G]

Thanks Stuart!

 

I suspected those were the answers. So I should be ok with a C8-C9 when I was initially shooting for D0-D1, just because of the grips, right? I do not think I would be able to tell the difference myself anyway.

I will load up the hosel of each iron to have similar SW thru the sets. Once put together, any changes in feeling/ball flight will have to be altered by adding the tape.

 

Depends what your decision to shoot for D0-D1 is based on. Was it based on a swing weight fitting with the same playing length, same shaft weight, same grip?

 

If not sure, might be better to just get a single club set up close to the desired SW but a little under. Then go to the range and tweak it with lead tape to get the best fit. Then use the results of that to finalize the rest of the set (and if you want, go back and replace the lead tape on the test club).

[numberonecoog]

So I need some help. I bought some clubs with recoils in them. They are a full inch long over standard (39 in 5 iron). I know a half inch is 3 SW point sbut with these being graphite in irons is this still the case?

[Milfordlefty]

From the first page "5 gr grip = 1 swing weight point"

SW scale is based on a 50 gram grip.

50 grams equals 10 sw points per the above formula.

Can I interpret this to mean a hypothetical club on a sw scale without the grip with a C1 reading should read D1 with a 50 gram grip installed?

[Stuart_G]

So I need some help. I bought some clubs with recoils in them. They are a full inch long over standard (39 in 5 iron). I know a half inch is 3 SW point sbut with these being graphite in irons is this still the case?

 

Length based SW changes are largely about how far the head weight moves with respect to the fulcrum point - shaft weight doesn't play a significant part.

 

From the first page "5 gr grip = 1 swing weight point"

SW scale is based on a 50 gram grip.

50 grams equals 10 sw points per the above formula.

Can I interpret this to mean a hypothetical club on a sw scale without the grip with a C1 reading should read D1 with a 50 gram grip installed?

 

The general idea is correct but you also have to account for the length change when the grip is added. This can be 1/16" to 1/4" depending on the grip w/ 1/8" being the most common amount. And you've got the direction of the grip weight change backward.

 

That means it's more like a 9 SW pt difference, not the full 10. And w/o the grip would be 9 pts heavier, not lighter. Grip weight reduces swing weight.

 

e.g. E0 w/o a grip would end up being ~D1 w/ a grip.

 

[Milfordlefty]

Stuart, thanks for the clarification. Never dawned on me which direction for change in sw, shows you how sometimes a little knowledge can be dangerous.

[ajfgator]

Is there a rule of thumb about how much an increase or decrease of swingweights changes flex of shaft?

No changes!

 

Can you please go into detail as to why this is correct? How can adding lead tape to a head NOT make the shaft easier to load? Just as an example if an iron is at C5 it's going to feel more "boardy" and launch lower than the exact same iron with enough tape to get it to D5. How is this possible if the shaft isn't flexing more in the transition? I bring up this scenario because I just added 1/2" to my MP-60's and added enough tape to get them all to D2. The difference is night and day in being able to feel the shaft load and the ball launching higher.

The shaft is flexing more because of the head weight.

Normally 1/2" increase in shaft length will yield 3 SWs. Sounds like your original Factory Mizuno heads may have been a little light or shafts shorter than

standard, possibly both. Also, may have been previously re-shaifted unless you were the original purchaser. I love Mizuno design and quality. As the great Seve was once quoted....Nothing feels like a Mizuno!

[ajfgator]

Is there a rule of thumb about how much an increase or decrease of swingweights changes flex of shaft?

No changes!

 

Can you please go into detail as to why this is correct? How can adding lead tape to a head NOT make the shaft easier to load? Just as an example if an iron is at C5 it's going to feel more "boardy" and launch lower than the exact same iron with enough tape to get it to D5. How is this possible if the shaft isn't flexing more in the transition? I bring up this scenario because I just added 1/2" to my MP-60's and added enough tape to get them all to D2. The difference is night and day in being able to feel the shaft load and the ball launching higher.

The shaft is flexing more because of the head weight.

Normally 1/2" increase in shaft length will yield 3 SWs. Sounds like your original Factory Mizuno heads may have been a little light or shafts shorter than

standard, possibly both. Also, may have been previously re-shaifted unless you were the original purchaser. I love Mizuno design and quality. As the great Seve was once quoted....Nothing feels like a Mizuno!

Also 10 SWs is generally a full flex ....TT R300 to S300 or Rifle 5.0 to 6.0

[Sanzabar]

I am considering chopping -.5" off of irons... what will that bring my current D2.5 swingweight to?

 

I see a lot of talk about drivers and how length changes it... would it be the same with irons?

[Stuart_G]

Yes it's true w/ irons as well. 1/2" length change is roughly 3 sw pts.

[Galanga]

I know that 1/2 inch difference in shaft length is roughly 3 SW points and 2 grams head weight is roughly 1 SW point. I know this is a good approximation through experience - it works.

 

More out of curiosity, I can't figure this out. Most standard irons vary in length by 1/2" from club to club and 7 grams in head weight as you go from 6 to 7 to 8 iron, etc. Most irons are made to have the same SW (e.g., D2) from iron to iron except they may creep up to a little higher SW in 9 iron and PW. So, if 1/2" difference in length from 6 to 7 iron = 3 SW points; why is 7 grams of head weight necessary to make both clubs the same SW (e.g., Maltby MMB-17 6 iron is spec'd at 261 gm and 7 iron at 268 gm) all else being equal?

 

When I rebuild my Titleist irons I want them to go from D1 at Titleist standard length to about D4-5 at standard length. On paper, based on the rules of thumb (and knowing what shaft I use may alter this assumption) I should add about 8 grams of tip weight to move up about 4 SW points. But, the question in the prior paragraph has me thinking that could work out to more like a move up of about 2.75 SW points (which is splitting hairs I grant you). Of course, I won't do this build on paper and will dry fit the clubs so as to get it right, but, curious.

 

Sorted it out. 7 grams is good for about 3 sw points - a smidge more than the rule of thumb 6 grams. Got it. Carry on.

[Stuart_G]

Sorted it out. 7 grams is good for about 3 sw points - a smidge more than the rule of thumb 6 grams. Got it. Carry on.

 

The key point is that the actual amount is dependent on length. 2 gm per sw pt is just a rough approximation (or average). Longer clubs need less, shorter clubs need a little more.

[gripandrip]

Remember, this is just a ball park figure for normal most case.

 

Some shaft have tip or butt weight balance point that can not be applied on this rules.

 

1/2" = 3 swing weight points

 

2 gr club head weight = 1 swing weight point

 

5 gr grip = 1 swing weight point

 

9 gr shaft weight differences = 1 swing weight point

 

4* flatter lie or more up right lie = increase or decrease 1 swing weight point

 

Joe

 

Sorry if this buried somewhere in this thread, but just wanted to clarify shaft length effect on swing weight.

 

I used to hit a 45 inch 910D2, very consistent and controllable, but too much spin. I was fit into a EPIC SZ at 45.5 inches. Fitter saw no real value to reducing the shaft length. While I am getting comfortable with the longer shaft, I have still not gotten back to my previous level of control or confidence. I know that the addition spin probably made the club more controllable, but I am now pondering shortening the shaft. The shaft in my Titleist and SZ are nearly the same from a performance point of view so I was just thinking of trying the Titleist shaft in the Callaway.

 

If I read above correctly, I will need to add 6 grams to the head to have consistent swingweight. Do these rules hold for a driver?

 

Changing weights is not too much a problem as replaceable weights are on the market.

 

Thanks, and sorry if this is a repeat question that I didn't see in other posts.