Swing weight factors in relation to parts

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='pricegsxr' timestamp='1435174611' post='11827528']
[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1435168163' post='11826748']
[quote name='pricegsxr' timestamp='1435161430' post='11825990']
I guess my question is this. Is there any way to decrease swing weight without increasing static weight? and has anyone built a set that was this heavy?
[/quote]

Use a shaft with a higher balance point or remove material from the head to lighten them (usually by drilling it out of the hossel).
[/quote]

So is it more the combination of the added static weight from the extension and extra wraps of tape? or do I just have a heavy set of heads? Can anybody tell me what the swing weight of nike vapor pro with a set of dgti x100 should be at 1/2 long?
[/quote]

Most likely it's the added length combined with fairly standard weight heads and it was the Titleist heads that were somewhat lighter than 'standard'.

[crater_divots]

I apologize if the following question has been beaten to death. I've searched the thread but not every post, and haven't found an answer...


How important is it to have progressive swingweights, in close increments, throughout the bag?

I play standard length woods, but irons and wedges that are +1". My woods are graphite and the irons/wedges are steel. The irons/wedges are obviously noticably heavier... but I've never given it any thought as to if I was doing myself a disservice in playability.

[puttingmatt]

Just completed my irons with a progressive swingweight from 5 thru sw.. Interesting
results. Seems to have my iron striking a little more crisp at impact. Near as I can tell,
Will look at the woods, next.. Not certain if I need to keep a simular swingweight increment
going to the longer woods.

[ignitewvu]

I never notice anyone mention including some room for Epoxy to effect swingweight. I've see it make a difference of 1 point many times building sets of irons.

[youraway2]

[quote name='g8rgolfer' timestamp='1305611724' post='3240421']
[quote name='joey3108' timestamp='1154037578' post='248269']
9 gr shaft weight differences = 1 swing weight point

4* flatter lie = increase 1 swing weight point[/quote]


Which way?
[/quote]

Flatter = increase in club length = +1 SW point

[Jul89]

How many gram clubhead weight equal one flex softer?

Is 5g half a flex?

[Jul89]

follow this topic.

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='Jul89' timestamp='1439913662' post='12161734']
How many gram clubhead weight equal one flex softer?

Is 5g half a flex?
[/quote]

Well it's not really the equivalent to a true change in flex but a rough ball park would be ~21 gm.

[Ray Jackson]

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1429000415' post='11354245']
[quote name='odshot68' timestamp='1428977434' post='11352827']
[quote name='odshot68' timestamp='1428976386' post='11352719']
Swing weight help: Want to take a 43.25" 17 wood down to 42.75" and switch the shaft from a 56 gram shaft to a 75 gram shaft. Swing weight starts at D3. What will it be without adding a tip weight or changing the grip?
[/quote]

Based on table of page 1: D3 (-1/2") to D0 then add 21 grams (slightly more than 2 SW) so D2.2

Is this correct?
[/quote]

By the general numbers, yes. However, shaft balance point can have as much impact as weight when changing a shaft so the general rule can be way off from the reality in many cases.
[/quote]

I just found this out when switching from a Matrix white tie 55 to a Matrix Altus LT and a shorter length......added lead tape to the head per general math to replace the shorter 0.875 inches net of the added shaft weight and it came out at D7!!!!!

[ccorrada]

So quick question. I have a 80X Kai'li installed in a 16* XR Pro head and the SW is D5. According to the OP if I swapped it with a 70X the SW would be D4, AND according to everyone you can't tell the difference in one SW point. I only ask because the club FEELS heavy to me.

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='ccorrada' timestamp='1441831936' post='12289304']
So quick question. I have a 80X Kai'li installed in a 16* XR Pro head and the SW is D5. According to the OP if I swapped it with a 70X the SW would be D4, AND according to everyone you can't tell the difference in one SW point. I only ask because the club FEELS heavy to me.
[/quote]

There are two types of weight when it comes to club specs. Swing weight (which is discussed here) and total static weight of the club - which is likely what you are feeling. A swing weight value can be completely independent of the total static weight of the club. When looking at the "weight fit" of the club, you have to look at both of these and not just swing weight. Changing shaft weight is the primary means to change the club static weight and a drop in 10 gm generally is noticeable (even if the SW stays the same). So just because a club feels heavy or light - it does not mean the problem is always the swing weight.

Also, the general rule about the impact of shaft weight is useless since variations in the shaft balance point can impact the SW as much as the weight change. So you need to know how the balance point changed as well as how the shaft weight changed. With that particular shaft change, the SW may have stayed the same or it could have changed much more than just 1 point (in either direction).

[ccorrada]

Thanks Stuart, so it sounds like switching to the 70g will help

[sbark]

Is there a site that consolidates and lists the various grips and their weights?

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='sbark' timestamp='1442723112' post='12337746']
Is there a site that consolidates and lists the various grips and their weights?
[/quote]

None that I'm aware of if you want to look up what grips are in a certain weight range. But the weight specs of grips are generally readily available both from the grip manufacturer web sites and the retail sources (such as golfworks).

[home0006]

I posted this in the Nike thread as well, but thought it might be better suited for here. I picked up the Vapor Speed driver and had great success, but being a shorter guy I wanted 1/2" trimmed off the end just to get a little more control over it. I trimmed my G25 I played before 3/4" with no ill effects. However with the Nike once I trimmed it and put on the same Decade grip I had on my G25, it has not performed the same ever since and has become virtually unusable.

I'm guessing it's a swing weight issue, so I'm going to throw on a lighter Excel grip this afternoon. If that doesn't at least help a little, does anyone have any more suggestions as to what the issue might be or solutions to it? If I also were to add a little lead tape to the head where would be the best place to add it?

[stan_lee]

I have a set of irons +1" 88g steel shaft with SW D9 (2 tapes grip). I chose a regular shafts but my fitting said I should use stiff ones (in the past I had problems with the TM fitters). What should make more balanced irons: changing them to a heavier shaft or changing to stiff shafts?

Thanks

[Stuart_G]

Stiffness has no direct impact on balance. If by 'more balanced' you mean a lighter swing weight, then what you really need is to do if find a way to remove some head weight.

[stan_lee]

Thanks! I would have to choose lighter heads as Ping or Mizuno's ones.

[Stuart_G]

That, or with the right equipment, heads can be made lighter by drilling out some material from the bottom of the hossel. Hard to say how much weight can be removed in that manner.

Which Iron head? I've run across some pretty light ones from TM for over sized builds.

[Dent]

Quick question:

Currently have a set of 714 CBs that I had built with MCC+4 grips, X-100 shafts. We found 5g tip weights in the shafts and removed them all before installing. The guy made the clubs to a D3 and they just feel heavy compared to my Ping S58s which feel like nothing. The MCCs are too big for my hands and I think the X-100s are too stiff for me.

I want to make them feel more like the light feeling of Ping Irons, I plan to put S300s in and standard grips. How is this going to change the feel of the clubs? I just want them a little lighter.

[Stuart_G]

What shaft was in the Pings? I would suspect a shaft weight (total club weight) issue and not just look at swing weight.

[Dent]

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1443807754' post='12401210']What shaft was in the Pings? I would suspect a shaft weight (total club weight) issue and not just look at swing weight.[/quote]

I currently have s300s in them as well. That is true though, the pings may just weigh lighter. I should grab a stock cb off the shelf and compare.

[HSTNGolfer]

[quote name='home0006' timestamp='1443023562' post='12356126']
I posted this in the Nike thread as well, but thought it might be better suited for here. I picked up the Vapor Speed driver and had great success, but being a shorter guy I wanted 1/2" trimmed off the end just to get a little more control over it. I trimmed my G25 I played before 3/4" with no ill effects. However with the Nike once I trimmed it and put on the same Decade grip I had on my G25, it has not performed the same ever since and has become virtually unusable.

I'm guessing it's a swing weight issue, so I'm going to throw on a lighter Excel grip this afternoon. If that doesn't at least help a little, does anyone have any more suggestions as to what the issue might be or solutions to it? If I also were to add a little lead tape to the head where would be the best place to add it?
[/quote]

I had a similar experience when cutting 1 inch off the butt end of the shaft on my Nike VRS Covert driver. It was originally 45.5 inches long and now plays to 44.5 inches. I used the same grip as before. I really struggled with the shorter shaft until I added 6g of lead tape to the head after reading some suggestions for MOI matching from Tom Wishon. I started with 2g extra, then 4g etc. and found the best results with the 6g extra head weight. Once I found the optimum extra weight I hit it further and more consistently than when it had the longer shaft. As many others have said on these forums the total weight, balance and MOI are all important factors when fitting to an individual swing.

In terms of swingweight, the 2014 Nike club catalog has a table near the back that gives swingweight changes vs length, extra headweight etc. Unfortunately, I have not been able to get the web link to work. In summary it states:

Length: 0.5 inch shorter => -3 sw points, 0.5 inch longer => +3 sw points
Head weight: +2g added to the head => +1 sw
Shaft weight: +9g heavier shaft => +1 sw
Grip weight: +5g heaver grip => -1 sw; 5g lighter grip => +1 sw
Tape wraps: 2 extra grip tape wraps => -0.5 sw
Lie angle: +2 deg upright => -0.5 sw; 2 deg flat => +0.5 sw

So, according to this table, cutting 1 inch off the shaft reduced the swingweight by 6 sw points, while adding 6g of head weight would have brought the sw back up by 3 points.

The swingweight scale measures the "balance" (in units of g-in) around a fulcrum located 14 inches from the end of the grip. 1 sw point is approximately 50 g-in difference. Adding 50g-in below the fulcrum point, i.e. towards the head, increases swingweight by 1 sw point, while adding 50g-in above the fulcrum decreases the swingweight by 1 sw point. If I remember correctly 6000 g-in represents C9, 6050 g-in = D0, 6100 g-in = D1 etc.

Thus it is easy to actually calculate the swingweight effects of adding weights based on how far from the 14 fulcrum point the weight is added. Similarly, reducing the shaft length by 1 inch moves the head 1 inch closer to the fulcrum, thus reducing the swingweight by the head weight x 1 g-in.

The center of mass of a grip is approximately 4 inches from the top, hence adding 5g of grip weight reduces swingweight by (14-4)x5 = 50 g-in or 1 sw point.

Placing 4g of counter weight in the butt section will similarly decrease the swingweight by (14-1)x4 = 52 g-in (assuming that the center of mass of the counter weight is 1 inch from the top of the grip) or 1 sw point.

The center of mass of a shaft is at approximately 1/2 the shaft length. For a shaft that weighs 70g at 46 in, it will weigh 68.5g at 45 in and 67g at 44 in. Cutting 1 inch off the shaft moves the shaft center of mass up about 0.5 in. Change in swingweight from cutting 1 in off this shaft:
[(45/2)-14]x68.5 - [(44/2)-14]x67 = 46.25 g-in or -0.9 sw.

The 1 inch reduction in shaft length moves the 210g head weight 1 inch closer to the fulcrum point, i.e. -210 g-in = -210/50 = -4.2 sw points. Combined effect of 1 in off the 45 in driver shaft = -(4.2 + 0.9) = -5.1 sw.

Placing 6g of head weight 44 inches from the top of the grip increases the swingweight by (44-14)x6 = 180 g-in or 180/50 = 3.6 sw points.

The calculations show more accurately that removing 1 in from the 70g shaft length then adding 6g of head weight only reduced the club swingweight by 1.5 sw (not 3 sw as the conventional wisdom tables suggest).

[chuckgt3]

Anyone worked this out yet with the M1. Talked with TM and they said they are not releasing a weight kit. So if many are cutting down an inch is it clear what is the best way to create the correct SW/MOI. There is some discussion on the hot melt option but nothing is that clear yet.

[chapinc]

[quote name='chuckgt3' timestamp='1446847090' post='12563036']
Anyone worked this out yet with the M1. Talked with TM and they said they are not releasing a weight kit. So if many are cutting down an inch is it clear what is the best way to create the correct SW/MOI. There is some discussion on the hot melt option but nothing is that clear yet.
[/quote]

I had my M1 cut down 1/2 in by TM. I had the swing weight checked and it came in at D3. I was expecting it to come in with a lower swing weight, but was pleasantly surprised that it came in at D3.

[aceofclubs]

I have a set of irons I want to reshaft with DGS300 +1/2", I did the 6 iron to try out and it swingweights at like a D6, which makes sense I suppose because they were D3 when standard length with KBS tour S+. They feel a little heavy, I could probably get used to them just wondering how I could go about lowering the SW a little. I'm not looking for a specific SW, just looking for a little lighter feel. I don't care if I "trick the scale" or whatever with a heavier grip if that's the easiest way to achieve this. However I was wondering, should I worry about overall, or static weight? I put the 6 iron on a scale and it was like 450 grams, that's with a 50 gram grip. Ive read about drilling out the hosels, but that doesn't sound like a project I want to tackle.
Thanks in advance

[JDogg206]

Currently in the process of pulling the DG Pro s300's (122g-118g) out of my Nike vapor pro combo 4-PW and replacing with C Taper 120g. I pulled the 4i shaft and found a tip weight in the hosel. Pulled it out, prepped the hosel and did a dry fit with grip to test swing weight (OEM specs are D2.5) and it came out right at 3.5. So my question is, when going from a progressive shaft to a uniform weight shaft can I expect to be able to leave out the tip weights and get the correct swing weight? I don't have a SW scale at home so I will have to take the clubs to my local fitter and have him check for me. I don't mind doing this, but it would be nice to not waste his time.

[Jshyne]

[quote name='chuckgt3' timestamp='1446847090' post='12563036']
Anyone worked this out yet with the M1. Talked with TM and they said they are not releasing a weight kit. So if many are cutting down an inch is it clear what is the best way to create the correct SW/MOI. There is some discussion on the hot melt option but nothing is that clear yet.
[/quote]

My M1 is a D5 have standard weights and an AD DI 6x at 45" and 5 grams of hotmelt with a standard z cord golf pride grip. The total weight of the club is 330 grams the balance point is at 84.5 centimeters from the butt. The head it self with the weights and the hotmelt come in right around 200g.

I think this is solid for me right now wouldn't mind having weights to play around with the SW a bit.

[Quasimoto]

Hi, here is a set of older Hogan Slazengers I have that I would like to better balance out the weight increments.
I am contemplating 7 grams of separation between clubs.
Any input with ideas is welcome.
2 = 413g
3 = 419
4 = 427
5 = 431
6 = 440
7 = 441
8 = 451
9 = 459
My thought is to re-weight the shaft tip of most of these so that there is a 7 gram overall difference in the total weight of each iron. The 4 iron would be the only one that stays as is; the 3, 6, and 9 need 1 gram each; the 5 needs 3 grams the 7 iron needs 7 grams, and the 8 needs 5 grams.
I have an Equalizer wedge and an Exploder but they are not here right now so I can't weigh them.

Thanks

[BREWMASTER95060]

I posted this in the Nike thread as well, but thought it might be better suited for here. I picked up the Vapor Speed driver and had great success, but being a shorter guy I wanted 1/2" trimmed off the end just to get a little more control over it. I trimmed my G25 I played before 3/4" with no ill effects. However with the Nike once I trimmed it and put on the same Decade grip I had on my G25, it has not performed the same ever since and has become virtually unusable.

 

I'm guessing it's a swing weight issue, so I'm going to throw on a lighter Excel grip this afternoon. If that doesn't at least help a little, does anyone have any more suggestions as to what the issue might be or solutions to it? If I also were to add a little lead tape to the head where would be the best place to add it?

Have you checked the balance points of both drivers?

 

I posted this in the Nike thread as well, but thought it might be better suited for here. I picked up the Vapor Speed driver and had great success, but being a shorter guy I wanted 1/2" trimmed off the end just to get a little more control over it. I trimmed my G25 I played before 3/4" with no ill effects. However with the Nike once I trimmed it and put on the same Decade grip I had on my G25, it has not performed the same ever since and has become virtually unusable.

 

I'm guessing it's a swing weight issue, so I'm going to throw on a lighter Excel grip this afternoon. If that doesn't at least help a little, does anyone have any more suggestions as to what the issue might be or solutions to it? If I also were to add a little lead tape to the head where would be the best place to add it?

Have you checked the balance points of both drivers?