Swing weight factors in relation to parts

[iMagineG]

I recently bought a ping i25 driver and it is too long for me with the stock shaft. How can I shorten the shaft and maintain the current swing weight? The shaft plays at 45.25" stock and I am more comfortable with a 44" shaft. My last driver I cut 2" off the butt end and struggled with the swing weight being too light. If I were to cut equal amounts off the butt and the tip would the swing weight remain the same just a lighter shaft? Or is my best bet sending the driver to ping or a clubmaker and requesting it at specific length with a specific swing weight?

[WCrane]

Just to be clear, if i swap from 96g NSpro shafts at a d0 swing weight to 134g ttdgs400 shafts at 134g, my swingweight should settle at around d3-4? Wouldnt the fulcrum point change from shaft to shaft based not only from weight but weight distrabution differences between shafts or does it not vary that much? I really dont want to lead tape my mint mp60s but i also dont want to drop money reshafting all my irons to find out that the swingweight is much different than what i planned and need to lead tape anyway

[Brianm423]

I recently decided to trim 1/2" off all of my iron shafts. I was fitted almost 4 yrs ago by a local shop who said I needed +1/2. I think he was wrong but didn't know that at the time (1st time with a fitting). The last 2 years I felt like my iron shafts were too long causing ball impact toward the heel consistantly. Since I like tinkering with my clubs I said what the heck and make the decision to trim down. Doing so obviously decreased swing weight...down to C7...which I could easily feel. I can't afford to send back to Mizuno for reshafting right now, plus I really don't want to wait around. So, I'm going to apply lead tape to get SW back up to D0. Already have completed 4 irons and they feel great. Lead tape fits well in the cavity and looks good, too.

[tmcbigblue]

My driver has a 45.25in shaft. I would like to have it at 44.5in. My question is if I went heavier on the shaft would it have less impact on the sw. I believe my shaft is 69g, so if I went up to say a 75g would it be close to what its playing now. Thanks for the help

[jamesWRX]

[quote name='tmcbigblue' timestamp='1411449283' post='10167159']
My driver has a 45.25in shaft. I would like to have it at 44.5in. My question is if I went heavier on the shaft would it have less impact on the sw. I believe my shaft is 69g, so if I went up to say a 75g would it be close to what its playing now. Thanks for the help
[/quote]
Cutting down 3/4" club length will decrease 4 sw
Adding 6g to shaft weight will increase 3/4 sw
So in doing so, you will decrease roughly 3 sw to what it's playing now

[tmcbigblue]

Thanks for the info! Another possibly is I might cut 3/4 inch of my current shaft. If I do so and install a 25g grip vs. A 55g grip how will this affect the swing weight? Will it get it close to the original sw? I think I read that on one of these threads. Thanks for the help

[Dinosaur]

This thread is invaluable to me as I like to tinker a bit. Currently I am trying to get my newly acquired SLDR-MINI 14 deg, with Speeder 57 (Regular) "feel" better. Although I like the club as is, it feels a little heavy at times. I concluded that a few points less swing weight will work better. Knowing that a nickle weighs 5 grams, I taped four of them (20 g) to the grip with black friction tape. With the added weight of the nickles and the tape, I figure I am lowering the swing weight from a D-3 to around a C-9 or D-0. It seems to have made a significant difference in how the club swings, seems more balanced. I don't have immediate access to a swing weight scale, so these approximations at least get me within the ball park. If it works out well, I will have a 20 gram weight placed in the grip. I know that Golf Smith has bits for this purpose that you can use with your drill if you wish to add weight to an existing grip, otherwise a grip change will be necessary.

[jamesWRX]

[quote name='tmcbigblue' timestamp='1411516369' post='10171791']
Thanks for the info! Another possibly is I might cut 3/4 inch of my current shaft. If I do so and install a 25g grip vs. A 55g grip how will this affect the swing weight? Will it get it close to the original sw? I think I read that on one of these threads. Thanks for the help
[/quote]

When cutting 3/4" shorter and decreasing 30g grip weight, you will roughly decrease 1 sw. One easiest way is to add about 2g lead tape to club head to bring back the original sw; ... and adding another 2g will increase 1 sw more than your original one - you can play around with lead tape to obtain the best 'feel' for you.

[tmcbigblue]

Great info, thanks! Dropping one sw point will be fine I'm sure. I just don't want to throw it way off.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='Dinosaur' timestamp='1411526028' post='10172673']
This thread is invaluable to me as I like to tinker a bit. Currently I am trying to get my newly acquired SLDR-MINI 14 deg, with Speeder 57 (Regular) "feel" better. Although I like the club as is, it feels a little heavy at times. I concluded that a few points less swing weight will work better. Knowing that a nickle weighs 5 grams, I taped four of them (20 g) to the grip with black friction tape. With the added weight of the nickles and the tape, I figure I am lowering the swing weight from a D-3 to around a C-9 or D-0. It seems to have made a significant difference in how the club swings, seems more balanced. I don't have immediate access to a swing weight scale, so these approximations at least get me within the ball park. If it works out well, I will have a 20 gram weight placed in the grip. I know that Golf Smith has bits for this purpose that you can use with your drill if you wish to add weight to an existing grip, otherwise a grip change will be necessary.
[/quote]

What you are thinkering with is NOT Swing weight, but Counterweight, and thats a hole different thing.
When we deal with a SW scale we must use it the way it was designed to be used, with a grip of 50-52 grams
If you go higher or lower, we do NOT read a correct SW value, but trick the scale by using plus or minus counterweight.

Counterweight DO make a difference to feel of balance, but you also raise the total weight of the club.
Weight who is "in your hands" makes a difference to tempo timing, and release, but NOT to swing weight.

There is no industrial "term" for it, but i prefer to call a club play ready on the scale to be "Play SW", and when we measure with a 50 gram OEM grip, or without minus 9 points, i call it "True SW"

When we mess with SW value, we also mess with flex, and they go 1:1, so 1 SW point lighter is also 1 CPM stronger and vice versa. When we manipulate with weight up or down, at the grip side, nothing happens to flex, so i prefer to split them in True SW, and Play SW, and treat any weight grip side other than a 50 grams, to be "Counter weighting", because thats what it is.

Too test for CW, take a stack of machine shims with a small hole, and put a long tee trough them, and put the tee down the hole at the grip end.On putters 30-150 gram, most common is 70- to 90 grams. On drivers - 5 - 40 grams.
The latest driver i made to myself, has a True SW value of C 6.5, and then i added a Jumbo Max grip who is 123,6 grams.
What my SW scale say is of no interest, the feel of head weight is still C 6.5

I picked up a random shaft/head and did some MOI numbers vs Grip weight
MOI without grip = 2409 / SW scale say C3
MOI with a 50.5 grams std OEM slip grip = 2415 / SW scale say B4
MOI with a 58.5 grams New Decade MID size = 2422 / SW scale say B3
MOI with a 123.6 grams Jumbo Max XL = 2439 / SW scale say A 0.5

So in this case when TRUE SW is B4 and we added a Jumbo max grip, the scale say A 0.5 even if MOI when up from 2415 to 2439 who is equal to PLUS 2.8 grams on the head, who was the same as adding 2 SW point on the actual club.

As you can see, actual resistance follows total weight, even if it takes a lot to really add resistance here, but the idea you get from the scale that resistance goes down when adding weight grip side is ALL WRONG, and we cant raise SW by using a lighter grip, because you can see that resistance goes DOWN, not up as wanted.

[Dinosaur]

No arguments there. Just nomenclature. Call it ASW (Apparent Swing Weight). Interesting way to look at it. As long as it works, its all good. So far, it is working with that particular club. Also by removing "The Secret" grip from my original driver.(TM R7 limited), replacing with a mid size grip, Butt trimming, adding back in head weights, it has made a significant difference in the way it feels and performs. Certainly, counterweighting is nothing new. I like the fact that you can purchase counterweight kits from places like Golfsmith and they have a variety of weights (saves a lot of grips that way).

I see you are from Denmark, The use of the word "who" in place of "which" threw me off for a second or two. It kind of gives the object a "personality". Not an English or grammar test. You express yourself very well, much better than I should I attempt your language.

[chch3]

I am having issues with a wedge that I just bought. The head weight is a over 300 grams (I think it was 305) and I shafted it in a 125 gram recoil shaft. with my wraps and grip it is at E2. I added lead tape under the grip, but it made the grip too thick. I tried a tour lock weight and it wouldn't fit inside the recoil shaft. I need to add 20-to 25 grams to get it at a D7 or D8 that I would like it at. I was wondering what else I can use to get some weight in the handle using my standard grip with 3 wraps?

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='chch3' timestamp='1413228311' post='10279565']
I am having issues with a wedge that I just bought. The head weight is a over 300 grams (I think it was 305) and I shafted it in a 125 gram recoil shaft. with my wraps and grip it is at E2. I added lead tape under the grip, but it made the grip too thick. I tried a tour lock weight and it wouldn't fit inside the recoil shaft. I need to add 20-to 25 grams to get it at a D7 or D8 that I would like it at. I was wondering what else I can use to get some weight in the handle using my standard grip with 3 wraps?
[/quote]

You CANT fix a swing weight issue by adding weight grip side, thats ONLY fooling the SW scale and yourself.
You add total weight, so read post #220 just above one more time.

To lower TRUE SW value, you must either reduce head weight (a lot pr SW point on a wedge, more like 3 grams than 2)
, or go shorter who reduces SW by 3 points pr. 05 inch.

Depending on head/hosel design, up to 10 grams can be removed from the bottom of the hosel by drilling.
A sole grind can take some weight off too. Another option is to strip them from plating to loose a few grams.

[Dinosaur]

not worth arguing over, its all just semantics. Technically, SW is not a measurement of weight at all, but merely a measurement of feel accomplished by changing weight (at either end), or the length/weight of the shaft. Here is an on-line calculator and explanation of the various factors involved, Forgive me if it is a repetition as I may have posted it elsewhere.
[url="http://www.golf-components.com/swing-weight-calculator.html"]http://www.golf-comp...calculator.html[/url]

[slimeone]

I have a question about lowering SW, if anyone can chime in I would appreciate it. I recently finished reshafting a set of Mizuno MP14s with DG X100HL at 3/8" over length, and Tour Velvet grips. Using the Leaderboard online SW calculator after gluing the heads and grips, the heaviest heads came out at D7. I feel this is accurate because I cross referenced with a number of stock irons that I knew the factory SW for and it was accurate, and I used a custom balance point finder and precision digital scale.

Anyway I was surprised by the heavy reading, and my issue now is that in order to get a matching set I have to weight them all at D7. So my question - is this normal for a set at 3/8" over? And would the standard practice be to drill out weight from the heads? That's not gonna happen, so I guess I'll just try playing them at D7!

[snafu34]

Adding an inch to length adds about 6 SW points. So 3/8" of an inch would add 2.25 points. Do don't have many options- play them as is, cut them shorter or pull them apart and drill weight from the hosel.

[slimeone]

[quote name='snafu34' timestamp='1415308376' post='10407493']
Adding an inch to length adds about 6 SW points. So 3/8" of an inch would add 2.25 points. Do don't have many options- play them as is, cut them shorter or pull them apart and drill weight from the hosel.
[/quote]

Thanks for the info. I tried playng them at D7 and liking it so far.

[Dinosaur]

[quote name='slimeone' timestamp='1415567514' post='10420811']
[quote name='snafu34' timestamp='1415308376' post='10407493']
Adding an inch to length adds about 6 SW points. So 3/8" of an inch would add 2.25 points. Do don't have many options- play them as is, cut them shorter or pull them apart and drill weight from the hosel.
[/quote]

Thanks for the info. I tried playng them at D7 and liking it so far.
[/quote]

even though its mentioned as a band aid. adding weight to the grip will give you a smaller "apparent" SW. I think it is one point for every five grams. (check my earlier post for how the factors apply). As mentioned, although you can get the "numbers" the whole dynamic is how it translates to feel.

[slimeone]

[quote name='Dinosaur' timestamp='1415578868' post='10421541']
[quote name='slimeone' timestamp='1415567514' post='10420811']
[quote name='snafu34' timestamp='1415308376' post='10407493']
Adding an inch to length adds about 6 SW points. So 3/8" of an inch would add 2.25 points. Do don't have many options- play them as is, cut them shorter or pull them apart and drill weight from the hosel.
[/quote]

Thanks for the info. I tried playng them at D7 and liking it so far.
[/quote]

even though its mentioned as a band aid. adding weight to the grip will give you a smaller "apparent" SW. I think it is one point for every five grams. (check my earlier post for how the factors apply). As mentioned, although you can get the "numbers" the whole dynamic is how it translates to feel.
[/quote]

Yes I was actually thinking about this, but decided that adding extra total weight is not going to be helpful for me. But also, I'm challenged by the notion that couterweighting is defined as a "trick", because swingweight itself is merely a subjective construct. More weight to the head affects the balance point one way, more weight to the grip affects it the opposite way. Anyway thanks for the input guys!

[BigBob]

I play TM MC / MB with Project X 6.0 they are 1" longer and 2[sup]o[/sup] upright. I'm 6[sup]ft[/sup] 6" and have forgotten my wrist to floor. I'm also a tinkerer no where as much as you guys on here but I have reasonable tools and bench. I can feel a better posture at +2" but the over all weight and the swing weight is too much, so I have "Moulded" my posture for +1". If I added another inch I know they woul be all over the shop in terms of feel so I just stick with what I can do. One of the Scandinavian players us to have his wedges +2" they must have been very well doctored to feel right.

[JL529]

Is that correct, that altering the lie of the club affects SW? I swore someone said it doesn't or minimal at best?

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='jgwak2' timestamp='1418423285' post='10585303']
Is that correct, that altering the lie of the club affects SW? I swore someone said it doesn't or minimal at best?
[/quote]

You move center of gravity.
A flatter lie angle , gives "a longer club" vs more upright, and you can use 3* Lie angle change = 1 SW point as rule of thumb

[ccorrada]

Great post glad I found it. I have been playing Bridgstone J40's with PX 6.0 hardstepped at plus 3/4" over standard at a SW of right between D3/D4. This is perfect for me. I just got a set of JPX Ez Forged for the winter with the same shaft setup and noticed something was off and they felt stiff and heavy. I measured the SW today and they came in at D6.

I supposed the heads are just heavier than the J40 heads. According to the original post I would need to swap the 120g PX shafts for a 102g shaft to achieve D4 SW. I've been interested in graphite iron shafts anyway so I'm willing to do this if you think it will work. Would love some feedback.

Thanks!

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='ccorrada' timestamp='1418762405' post='10602211']
Great post glad I found it. I have been playing Bridgstone J40's with PX 6.0 hardstepped at plus 3/4" over standard at a SW of right between D3/D4. This is perfect for me. I just got a set of JPX Ez Forged for the winter with the same shaft setup and noticed something was off and they felt stiff and heavy. I measured the SW today and they came in at D6.

I supposed the heads are just heavier than the J40 heads. According to the original post I would need to swap the 120g PX shafts for a 102g shaft to achieve D4 SW. I've been interested in graphite iron shafts anyway so I'm willing to do this if you think it will work. Would love some feedback.

Thanks!
[/quote]

Sorry, but when dealing with shafts, the balance point of the shaft can have as much influence as the weight. Using a shaft change to change SW can be much more complicated than it might seem and graphite iron shafts seem to have some of the biggest variations in balance point. You could easily go to a lighter shaft and see no change in SW. The steelfiber i110's are the only ones that I know of that are relatively butt heavy and would actually drop the SW for you - probably about 2-4 pts.

Second, you should never really change shaft weight just for the sake of a SW change. Shaft weight is the primary determinant of the club's static weight and changing shaft weight should only be done if that shaft weight change gives a static weight change that's beneficial to your swing. Otherwise, it has the potential for negative effects on your consistency and accuracy due to the impact on rhythm and timing. Although the i110's might not be too big of a drop. SW is always best managed with head weight changes - if possible.

[ccorrada]

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1418763710' post='10602317']
[quote name='ccorrada' timestamp='1418762405' post='10602211']
Great post glad I found it. I have been playing Bridgstone J40's with PX 6.0 hardstepped at plus 3/4" over standard at a SW of right between D3/D4. This is perfect for me. I just got a set of JPX Ez Forged for the winter with the same shaft setup and noticed something was off and they felt stiff and heavy. I measured the SW today and they came in at D6.

I supposed the heads are just heavier than the J40 heads. According to the original post I would need to swap the 120g PX shafts for a 102g shaft to achieve D4 SW. I've been interested in graphite iron shafts anyway so I'm willing to do this if you think it will work. Would love some feedback.

Thanks!
[/quote]

Sorry, but when dealing with shafts, the balance point of the shaft can have as much influence as the weight. Using a shaft change to change SW can be much more complicated than it might seem and graphite iron shafts seem to have some of the biggest variations in balance point. You could easily go to a lighter shaft and see no change in SW. The steelfiber i110's are the only ones that I know of that are relatively butt heavy and would actually drop the SW for you - probably about 2-4 pts.

Second, you should never really change shaft weight just for the sake of a SW change. Shaft weight is the primary determinant of the club's static weight and changing shaft weight should only be done if that shaft weight change gives a static weight change that's beneficial to your swing. Otherwise, it has the potential for negative effects on your consistency and accuracy due to the impact on rhythm and timing. Although the i110's might not be too big of a drop. SW is always best managed with head weight changes - if possible.
[/quote]
That's what I was afraid of. I should have gotten the lighter mizzy heads when I had these built but my j40 are standard weight heads and are fine. I think a change in static weight would help though because the clubs just feel heavy like giant hammers. Steelfiber 110 is one of the ones I'm looking at .

[WindyCitySPN]

Read through tread couldn't find my answer. I cut a Titleist 915 driver from 45 to 44.5. Should I change the weight (currently has a red). What is standard swing weight for Titleist. Thanks

[mistercoffee1]

[quote name='Shradersr' timestamp='1421565739' post='10768327']
Read through tread couldn't find my answer. I cut a Titleist 915 driver from 45 to 44.5. Should I change the weight (currently has a red). What is standard swing weight for Titleist. Thanks
[/quote]

From Post #1: "[color=#282828]1/2" = 3 swing weight points[/color]"
So - if you shortened by 0.5 inches, your driver (let's say it was D3) is then 3 SW points lighter (let's say it's now D0).

For the 915, Titleist Red weights are 9 grams.

From Post #1: "[color=#282828]2 gr club head weight = 1 swing weight point[/color]"

Thus, you need 6 grams of additional head weight to get back to where you were at 45".

The black Titleist weight is 14 grams (heaviest weight they have), so that's 5 grams heavier than your current red weight.
So, the black weight will get you closer to your original swing weight, if that is what you want. Try some lead tape strips first to see that's what works best.

[FairwaysToHeaven]

anyone have pictures or can explain exactly where you'd put the lead tape on a driver. does it matter where on the sole, and do you space it out or just one strip on top of another? does it affect playability if put on sole closer to face or closer to the rear?

also, I've haven't used lead tape but can it be easily removed without leaving noticeable spot behind on the club .

[Stuart_G]

Doesn't really matter at all from the standpoint of performance. Just find a smooth area for good adhesion and make sure it's clean before applying. Other than that, I prefer to stay away from the leading edge to avoid the possibility that some rare contact with the ground might knock it loose.

As far as removal goes, it might leave a little residue but it doesn't leave anything that can't be easily cleaned up.

[boska]

Excellent thread for my learning reference. Thanks!