What's your opinion of Golfsmith's stuff (Snake Eyes, XPC, etc.)?

[SpinMill75]

Golfsmith irons fill a niche for guys who like to build clubs and tinker IMO. They are probably just as good as many other brands.

[golfbum9]

[quote name='rkangrah' timestamp='1309805379' post='3363793']
[quote name='golfbum9' timestamp='1309804361' post='3363736']
So how do you think you were towards the staff? Going by your post, you got what you put out.
In the Bay Area, people tend to not put up with other peoples s%%t. Yes, even those in customer service...



Just to be clear - No I do not work for Golfsmith.
[/quote]

You probably not a Golfsmith employee.... but you talk like one.

BTW that experience was the worst I ever had in the bay area. Most people in the bay area are super super nice!!
[/quote]

I suppose that was meant to be an insult right?
Not that I need to justify to you by the way, but I do know what I'm talking about and stand by my posts 100% :


I probably shouldn't have responded to such a post but it bugs me how people treat those in the business. Be it a golf course pro shop or your local B&M store. They're golfers too - would you talk to them that way if met on the 1st tee? Didn't think so...

[JessN16]

Just to clarify, I've been in a Golfsmith store exactly one time (Birmingham, Ala.), and I didn't exactly feel the love from their employees, either.

All my dealings with them have been online.

Just ordered a new 6-iron from the Snake Eyes OS blades line and a 7-PW from their forged line last night, Avon grips, Graphite Design shafts, and will put them together next week and test.

Jess

[rkangrah]

[quote name='golfbum9' timestamp='1309816021' post='3364131']
[quote name='rkangrah' timestamp='1309805379' post='3363793']
[quote name='golfbum9' timestamp='1309804361' post='3363736']
So how do you think you were towards the staff? Going by your post, you got what you put out.
In the Bay Area, people tend to not put up with other peoples s%%t. Yes, even those in customer service...



Just to be clear - No I do not work for Golfsmith.
[/quote]

You probably not a Golfsmith employee.... but you talk like one.

BTW that experience was the worst I ever had in the bay area. Most people in the bay area are super super nice!!
[/quote]

I suppose that was meant to be an insult right?
Not that I need to justify to you by the way, but I do know what I'm talking about and stand by my posts 100% :


I probably shouldn't have responded to such a post but it bugs me how people treat those in the business. Be it a golf course pro shop or your local B&M store. They're golfers too - would you talk to them that way if met on the 1st tee? Didn't think so...
[/quote]

Hi GolfBum....

I had never made a bad comment about any Golf Shops before. Just this Golfsmith experience was so bad and I have to share it. It was BTW the first I was treated so bad by a Golf shop staff.

I don't think all Golf Pro Shops treat their customer badly. In fact, most of them are super super friendly and trying to recognize their customer as a friend. In fact, I really like one particular guy in the local driving range Pro Shop and I kept coming to the same shop over the years. So my point, not all Pro Shops treats their customer badly.

BTW seems like you work in a Pro Shop. Sounds like one..... nevermind if you don't.

[rkangrah]

[quote name='JessN16' timestamp='1309817703' post='3364208']
Just to clarify, I've been in a Golfsmith store exactly one time (Birmingham, Ala.), and I didn't exactly feel the love from their employees, either.

All my dealings with them have been online.

Just ordered a new 6-iron from the Snake Eyes OS blades line and a 7-PW from their forged line last night, Avon grips, Graphite Design shafts, and will put them together next week and test.

Jess
[/quote]

+1 to this post.

[storm319]

[quote name='heavybladed' timestamp='1309800280' post='3363555']
[quote name='storm319' timestamp='1309792579' post='3363351']
[quote name='schneck1977' timestamp='1309738612' post='3362108']
[quote name='phizzy30' timestamp='1309735819' post='3362037']
Never have gamed their clubs nor will I ever. Other companies make clubs that are technologically superior compared to them so I feel like I would be giving up strokes on the course. Played the snake eyes balls many years ago because I got 2 sleeves for my birthday. They were hard as rocks around the greens and had almost no back spin. I would rank those balls in the top 3 worst balls I've ever hit.
[/quote]

I am not trying to start a pissing match, but how do you figure that Snake Eyes is technologically inferior? Do you feel the same way about Alpha, Geek, Wishon, Maltby etc as well?
[/quote]

[b]Purely based on these company's resources compared to the big OEM's, I will say yes they are [i]inferior[/i][/b].

I do not understand why Golfsmith continues brands like XPC, Killer Bee, Lynx. After buying these brands they have effectively killed off any popularity they once had. Now that they have McGreggor, what is the point of continuing these other dead brand names? Is their really a need for 5 component brands?
[/quote]

I'd have to disagree. A lot of the major OEM's resources are spent on advertising and marketing (commercials are very expensive). R&D is certainly a big chunk too, but most of these smaller component companies are still alive because they, in fact, do produce high quality products without the aid of mainstream recognition. Without huge endorsement contracts I believe we'd see a lot more TOUR players using the products they like best, and not just Tour Edge and Scratch who already either don't pay endorsements or have very limited payrolls. Ralph Maltby or Tom Wishon aren't going into their own pocket to try to compete with TMAG, but that in it's self doesn't make their products inferior.
[/quote]

I was talking more along the lines of personnel. Single person in a startup vs huge OEM with a team of the best engineers in the world with tons more resources.,,Who would you rather have designing your clubs? As far as resources, I guarantee that TM or Nike have a way larger R&D budget than a small component company. Regardless of their size or whether or not its a fair comparison there is still more resources going into developing the larger OEM technology.

Does TM have more exposure on tour due to their large payroll? Absolutely, but there are several companies that get alot of play on tour without paying a cent (ie Rife putters).

[knickerbocker]

Snakeyes 695bx wedges are really nice. Their new forged wedges with conforming grooves are my next to try.

[golfbum9]

[quote name='rkangrah' timestamp='1309819546' post='3364278']
[quote name='golfbum9' timestamp='1309816021' post='3364131']
[quote name='rkangrah' timestamp='1309805379' post='3363793']
[quote name='golfbum9' timestamp='1309804361' post='3363736']
So how do you think you were towards the staff? Going by your post, you got what you put out.
In the Bay Area, people tend to not put up with other peoples s%%t. Yes, even those in customer service...



Just to be clear - No I do not work for Golfsmith.
[/quote]

You probably not a Golfsmith employee.... but you talk like one.

BTW that experience was the worst I ever had in the bay area. Most people in the bay area are super super nice!!
[/quote]

I suppose that was meant to be an insult right?
Not that I need to justify to you by the way, but I do know what I'm talking about and stand by my posts 100% :


I probably shouldn't have responded to such a post but it bugs me how people treat those in the business. Be it a golf course pro shop or your local B&M store. They're golfers too - would you talk to them that way if met on the 1st tee? Didn't think so...
[/quote]

Hi GolfBum....

I had never made a bad comment about any Golf Shops before. Just this Golfsmith experience was so bad and I have to share it. It was BTW the first I was treated so bad by a Golf shop staff.

I don't think all Golf Pro Shops treat their customer badly. In fact, most of them are super super friendly and trying to recognize their customer as a friend. In fact, I really like one particular guy in the local driving range Pro Shop and I kept coming to the same shop over the years. So my point, not all Pro Shops treats their customer badly.

BTW seems like you work in a Pro Shop. Sounds like one..... nevermind if you don't.
[/quote]
My apologies for reading into your post then. Not knowing you personally of course, it seemed to read that way.
and yes I do work in the industry.

[gunmetal]

[quote name='phizzy30' timestamp='1309735819' post='3362037']
Never have gamed their clubs nor will I ever. Other companies make clubs that are technologically superior compared to them so I feel like I would be giving up strokes on the course. Played the snake eyes balls many years ago because I got 2 sleeves for my birthday. They were hard as rocks around the greens and had almost no back spin. I would rank those balls in the top 3 worst balls I've ever hit.
[/quote]

What flavor of kool aid is it? What technology exists that saves you strokes that Snake Eyes is missing out on? Seriously??? And fwiw, their balls were meant to compete with Top Flite and the other rocks.

[gunmetal]

[quote name='phizzy30' timestamp='1309747466' post='3362457']
[quote name='schneck1977' timestamp='1309738612' post='3362108']
[quote name='phizzy30' timestamp='1309735819' post='3362037']
Never have gamed their clubs nor will I ever. Other companies make clubs that are technologically superior compared to them so I feel like I would be giving up strokes on the course. Played the snake eyes balls many years ago because I got 2 sleeves for my birthday. They were hard as rocks around the greens and had almost no back spin. I would rank those balls in the top 3 worst balls I've ever hit.
[/quote]

I am not trying to start a pissing match, but how do you figure that Snake Eyes is technologically inferior? Do you feel the same way about Alpha, Geek, Wishon, Maltby etc as well?
[/quote]


Let's start out with the fact that they don't offer adjustable drivers. Second, their golf balls are one of the worst in terms of spin, performance and feel. Don't like the look of their wedges and they don't offer them forged the last time I checked. Yeah I would really love to game their products. Listen, I've had a set of Scratch irons and they're definately not mainstream which goes to show you that I'm not just stuck on major OEM equipment. I think I've said enough.
[/quote]


Wrong, they've offered adjustable crap for several years. Their golf balls aren't meant to be in the conversation with $30 plus balls, hence their price point. That's fine about not liking the look of classic wedges, but they've had forged wedges for decades.

[gunmetal]

[quote name='storm319' timestamp='1309792579' post='3363351']
[quote name='schneck1977' timestamp='1309738612' post='3362108']
[quote name='phizzy30' timestamp='1309735819' post='3362037']
Never have gamed their clubs nor will I ever. Other companies make clubs that are technologically superior compared to them so I feel like I would be giving up strokes on the course. Played the snake eyes balls many years ago because I got 2 sleeves for my birthday. They were hard as rocks around the greens and had almost no back spin. I would rank those balls in the top 3 worst balls I've ever hit.
[/quote]

I am not trying to start a pissing match, but how do you figure that Snake Eyes is technologically inferior? Do you feel the same way about Alpha, Geek, Wishon, Maltby etc as well?
[/quote]

Purely based on these company's resources compared to the big OEM's, I will say yes they are inferior.

I do not understand why Golfsmith continues brands like XPC, Killer Bee, Lynx. After buying these brands they have effectively killed off any popularity they once had. Now that they have McGreggor, what is the point of continuing these other dead brand names? Is their really a need for 5 component brands?
[/quote]

If by "resources" you mean paying tour players 100's millions to wear their hat and play their equipment, then yes they don't have those resources. If by conducting serious R&D and designing new products when technology demands it as opposed to every 6-12 months to appease shareholders, you're dead wrong.

I do think they should discontinue XPC, Killer Bee, and Golfsmith and focus on Snake Eyes and make MacGregor component, but I doubt that will ever happen. Pretty sure Golfsmith is trying to be a big box player which leaves them out of the serious custom fitting game.

[Nessism]

Sorry to just into the fray here but lets keep the topic clear here: this thread was about the quality of Golfsmith components, not about the quality of the workers in some of their retail outlets.

As someone that has built quite a few Golfsmith branded clubs I have liked a good many of their clubheads, but not all. Love the older Snake Eye's Quickstrike hybrid heads and their older forged wedges. I've built a few sets of irons too and all have been fine but they have never really attached themselves to my heart the way those QS's have.

As far as R&D capability is concern, I seriously doubt their current driver heads have the offcenter striking performance of some of the better OE heads or something like the the Wishon 919. To develop a head like this takes a lot of robotic testing which equals money. I may be wrong here but that's just my gut feel based on the specs of the parts. That said, lets not bash them too bad for this possible shortcoming. You get a lot of value for your money with most of these components so lets accept them for what they are.

[Vintage1976]

[quote name='storm319' timestamp='1309832667' post='3364751']
[quote name='heavybladed' timestamp='1309800280' post='3363555']
[quote name='storm319' timestamp='1309792579' post='3363351']
[quote name='schneck1977' timestamp='1309738612' post='3362108']
[quote name='phizzy30' timestamp='1309735819' post='3362037']
Never have gamed their clubs nor will I ever. Other companies make clubs that are technologically superior compared to them so I feel like I would be giving up strokes on the course. Played the snake eyes balls many years ago because I got 2 sleeves for my birthday. They were hard as rocks around the greens and had almost no back spin. I would rank those balls in the top 3 worst balls I've ever hit.
[/quote]

I am not trying to start a pissing match, but how do you figure that Snake Eyes is technologically inferior? Do you feel the same way about Alpha, Geek, Wishon, Maltby etc as well?
[/quote]

[b]Purely based on these company's resources compared to the big OEM's, I will say yes they are [i]inferior[/i][/b].

I do not understand why Golfsmith continues brands like XPC, Killer Bee, Lynx. After buying these brands they have effectively killed off any popularity they once had. Now that they have McGreggor, what is the point of continuing these other dead brand names? Is their really a need for 5 component brands?
[/quote]

I'd have to disagree. A lot of the major OEM's resources are spent on advertising and marketing (commercials are very expensive). R&D is certainly a big chunk too, but most of these smaller component companies are still alive because they, in fact, do produce high quality products without the aid of mainstream recognition. Without huge endorsement contracts I believe we'd see a lot more TOUR players using the products they like best, and not just Tour Edge and Scratch who already either don't pay endorsements or have very limited payrolls. Ralph Maltby or Tom Wishon aren't going into their own pocket to try to compete with TMAG, but that in it's self doesn't make their products inferior.
[/quote]

I was talking more along the lines of personnel. Single person in a startup vs huge OEM with a team of the best engineers in the world with tons more resources.,,Who would you rather have designing your clubs? As far as resources, I guarantee that TM or Nike have a way larger R&D budget than a small component company. Regardless of their size or whether or not its a fair comparison there is still more resources going into developing the larger OEM technology.

Does TM have more exposure on tour due to their large payroll? Absolutely, but there are several companies that get alot of play on tour without paying a cent (ie Rife putters).
[/quote]

Hard to argue against your comments in theory, but in practice, the major OEM's big R&D budgets have produced plenty of products that look fine but I wouldn't want to play, and some that are downright poorly designed (regarding COG locations specifically). Just as an example, I have run across many ugly looking products from the "little guys" but none that I would consider poorly designed or tough to hit correctly - they cannot afford that kind of bad press - whereas TM, Cally, etc., just fire their corporate president and call a bad year a speed bump. A bad year could spell the end for some other companies.

I'd venture to say that dollar-for-dollar you get a better product from smaller companies.

[rkangrah]

Like I said before the Driver heads are overpriced, especially with this new one:
http://www.golfsmith.com/products/SE3695/Snake_Eyes/695_Ti_Driver_Head

Now everyone is trying to imitate the Taylormade R11.

I could buy the Real Taylormade R11 driver head with the same price.

[WishICouldPlayMoreOften]

Never seen anyone playing GS clubs, and I don't either. Doesn't mean they're not good. Would I try them? Not likely - other makers clubs are often on sale and a better value.

I like GS more for the deals it occasionally has on brand-name products.

[Vintage1976]

[quote name='rkangrah' timestamp='1309890691' post='3366266']
Like I said before the Driver heads are overpriced, especially with this new one:
[url="http://www.golfsmith.com/products/SE3695/Snake_Eyes/695_Ti_Driver_Head"]http://www.golfsmith..._Ti_Driver_Head[/url]

Now everyone is trying to imitate the Taylormade R11.

I could buy the Real Taylormade R11 driver head with the same price.
[/quote]

I'd buy that before I'd buy an R11.

[mac94]

Trust me the 600 and 675 iron series were as good as any name brand. And the Snake Eyes wedges did have some PGA Tour play when they first came out.

[eqman]

I have a set of Pro Forged blades I built maybe 12 years ago and they are as good as anything out there but I`m not gaming blades any more but I still won`t get rid of them...I have a set of the older Snake Eyes wedges with what was called worn soles...they are very very good wedges I still look for mint condition ones....

There sales staff sucks.. and there store clubmaking inventory is practically non existent...they have been going downhill for years...I no longer go there...and I used to buy there all the time...

[sandite]

I have had the Snake Eyes Viper Tour driver in the bag for three years. I will put in a set of Snake Eyes Viper irons when I am swinging poorly or have not played in a while. I have been putting with a Snake Eyes putter that replaced a Scotty since Christmas. Have I tried to replace any or all of these? Sure, but haven't found anything else that I hit any better than what I have now. I don't hit any of these clubs any shorter than major oem brands, except for the Burner 2.0 irons with less loft. I also believe you can't go
Wrong with the forged/form forged Snake Eyes wedges, even though I am not playing them right now. But I could easily have a complete Snake Eyes bag and be happy.

[Elite_Digger]

I have...errr..had a Snake Eyes Fire Forged driver a few years ago. It was a very solid club...very long (It was the last club I hit a 300 yd. drive with... )...but probably not the most forgiving in the world.

[KjBowen]

I currently play all snake eyes except a driver.. I play the 600xc irons...685bx 52* 56 * bent to 57* and a 60* bent to 62*. Tour platinum putter.. if u think this stuff is inferior you are crazy.. this stuff is just as good or better then the high priced name brand stuff you are over paying for so Phil and sergio get free clubs and balls. But u keep dogging snake eyes and ill keep hitting them

[rkangrah]

[quote name='jimjc' timestamp='1309904314' post='3366883']
I have a set of Pro Forged blades I built maybe 12 years ago and they are as good as anything out there but I`m not gaming blades any more but I still won`t get rid of them...I have a set of the older Snake Eyes wedges with what was called worn soles...they are very very good wedges I still look for mint condition ones....

There sales staff sucks.. and there store clubmaking inventory is practically non existent...they have been going downhill for years...I no longer go there...and I used to buy there all the time...
[/quote]

I was actually looking for clubmaking supplies in a GS store. The salesman said "Why don't you just order on our website??"

They are depending heavily on the website rather than providing stock in their stores. They do not want to spend a lot of money and resources on their brick mortar store.

[pdaero]

The Snake Eyes stuff has been pretty good over the years, but the XPC wasn't the best. It made for a good starter set, but not much more than that.

[Bombam]

Love my 600b 600c combo set.

[hack4life]

Almost embarrassed to admit it, but I've had the original Snake Eyes Quick Strike hybrids(22 and 18) in my bag for some time now. I have Graphite Design YS-9.1+ in X-flex(Blue shafts). Very solid clubs. Consistent/accurate. I've hit some Adams and Cally hybrids and they simply did not compare. I've hit TM's R11 Rescue and Titleist 910's in the nets off mats, and although they feel great, I won't drop a dime on them when my "garage-sale" price clubs work superbly. The only other Snake Eyes club I've tried is a 60/12 wedge(not the original bulky chrome model), and it's still in a closet somewhere.

[mac94]

The Quick Strike Tour hybrids with steel shafts are still the best I've ever had . . .

[gunmetal]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1309870424' post='3365419']
Sorry to just into the fray here but lets keep the topic clear here: this thread was about the quality of Golfsmith components, not about the quality of the workers in some of their retail outlets.

As someone that has built quite a few Golfsmith branded clubs I have liked a good many of their clubheads, but not all. Love the older Snake Eye's Quickstrike hybrid heads and their older forged wedges. I've built a few sets of irons too and all have been fine but they have never really attached themselves to my heart the way those QS's have.

As far as R&D capability is concern, I seriously doubt their current driver heads have the offcenter striking performance of some of the better OE heads or something like the the Wishon 919. To develop a head like this takes a lot of robotic testing which equals money. I may be wrong here but that's just my gut feel based on the specs of the parts. That said, lets not bash them too bad for this possible shortcoming. You get a lot of value for your money with most of these components so lets accept them for what they are.
[/quote]

Hard for me to argue against Wishon, so I wont. However, ball deflection and face design doesn't cost boat loads of money to perfect. Wishon would be proof of that. They don't have money like the bigger names but he has more design experience than just about anyone in the industry and has a great R&D Facility. He used to design Snake Eyes when Verplank used them on tour, so I think Jeff Sheets (if it is still Sheets) is very capable of designing clubs that perform equally to the big names on off center hits. Sheets was responsible for the Wilson Deep Red line and the Fat Shaft stuff, IIRC.

[Titleist87]

Built a Black Box driver and 3 wood each with a V2 shaft. Driver was long but the hosel started to bend. Returned it (after over a year of playing) and GS refunded my money, which they did not have to do. The 3 wood is stupid long if hit on the screws. I think they make quality components and will continue to buy from them as the need arises.

[Jack Pearsall]

Jack Pearsall likes some of the [i]looks [/i]of the snake eyes forged irons.
Some of them really are kind of throw backs to a nicer looking iron time...
-->the 685, 675 and the 600 all are really nice looking irons.

I haven't hit any of them...being a complete slave to my OEM masters:(

[monkeynaut]

[quote name='phizzy30' timestamp='1309747466' post='3362457']
[quote name='schneck1977' timestamp='1309738612' post='3362108']
[quote name='phizzy30' timestamp='1309735819' post='3362037']
Never have gamed their clubs nor will I ever. Other companies make clubs that are technologically superior compared to them so I feel like I would be giving up strokes on the course. Played the snake eyes balls many years ago because I got 2 sleeves for my birthday. They were hard as rocks around the greens and had almost no back spin. I would rank those balls in the top 3 worst balls I've ever hit.
[/quote]

I am not trying to start a pissing match, but how do you figure that Snake Eyes is technologically inferior? Do you feel the same way about Alpha, Geek, Wishon, Maltby etc as well?
[/quote]


Let's start out with the fact that they don't offer adjustable drivers. Second, their golf balls are one of the worst in terms of spin, performance and feel. Don't like the look of their wedges and they don't offer them forged the last time I checked. Yeah I would really love to game their products. Listen, I've had a set of Scratch irons and they're definately not mainstream which goes to show you that I'm not just stuck on major OEM equipment. I think I've said enough.
[/quote]

Vokey doesn't offer forged either. The Bum.