Presidents Cup 2011 Discussion Thread (merged)

[502 to Right]

The President's Cup is a team event in name only. I don't believe good chemistry = good golf. Good play = good golf.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='502 to Right' timestamp='1321466851' post='3808383']
The President's Cup is a team event in name only. I don't believe good chemistry = good golf. Good play = good golf.
[/quote]
What explains the US Dominance? Our players are just that much better?

[MileHighClub]

I love these tournaments in Australia because it means prime time golf here in the US and it starts a day earlier than normal.

I was hoping to see Tiger and Phil paired together to try to improve on their performance from the Ryder Cup of a few years back. This is an exibition, right? What pairing would you rather see for entertainment value? Tiger playing against his former caddy's new player doesn't do it for me because Stevie is just a caddy. Would also like to see DJ and Bubba paired just for the shear firepower. Should be a great weel of golf.

[eisen99]

I think it's a great move by the captains to get the Woods vs. Scott pairing out of the way the first day. This should make this NON ISSUE a NON ISSUE to the press as well.

[502 to Right]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1321468081' post='3808461']
[quote name='502 to Right' timestamp='1321466851' post='3808383']
The President's Cup is a team event in name only. I don't believe good chemistry = good golf. Good play = good golf.
[/quote]
What explains the US Dominance? Our players are just that much better?
[/quote]

Yes.


Edit - Just look at where the team members are at on the OWGR list right now. Not including Captain's picks, every U.S. member is in the top 20. The International team has 6 of 10 non-captain's pick players outside the top 20. I know the OWGR is not perfect, but I think it illustrates the difference in talent. If you include the Captain's picks, Bill Haas is 22nd and Tiger is 50th (although Couples could have/should have selected Keegan Bradley who is 26th). For the Internationals Aaron Baddeley is 47th and Robert Allenby is 69th. Again, advantage U.S.

As for the Ryder Cup - the Europeans play well in the Ryder Cup because they have better players than the International team does in the President's Cup.

Edit 2 -

And to take it a step further, here is the average ranking for the top 12 golfers on the OWGR list for the U.S., Europe, and Internationals:

U.S. - 15th
Europe - 16th
Internationals - 33rd

That pretty much explains why the U.S. and Europe are pretty evenly matched in the Ryder Cup and the U.S. usually trounces the Internationals in the Pres. Cup.

[psd]

If Bubba putts the way he did last week the Intls might take Match 1 4&3 or worse.

[moonshine]

I wonder if KB is watching 2nite?

[ethanlculver]

U.s. will win fairly easily. As 502 to Right has been saying, our players are just better.

And Y.E. Yang said today that he thinks the course, in particular the greens, are unfair. He called them "monstrous" and said you can easily make triple bogey by 3 or 4 putting. Doesn't sound like he's too confident.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='502 to Right' timestamp='1321474420' post='3808903']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1321468081' post='3808461']
[quote name='502 to Right' timestamp='1321466851' post='3808383']
The President's Cup is a team event in name only. I don't believe good chemistry = good golf. Good play = good golf.
[/quote]
What explains the US Dominance? Our players are just that much better?
[/quote]

Yes.


Edit - Just look at where the team members are at on the OWGR list right now. Not including Captain's picks, every U.S. member is in the top 20. The International team has 6 of 10 non-captain's pick players outside the top 20. I know the OWGR is not perfect, but I think it illustrates the difference in talent. If you include the Captain's picks, Bill Haas is 22nd and Tiger is 50th (although Couples could have/should have selected Keegan Bradley who is 26th). For the Internationals Aaron Baddeley is 47th and Robert Allenby is 69th. Again, advantage U.S.

As for the Ryder Cup - the Europeans play well in the Ryder Cup because they have better players than the International team does in the President's Cup.
[/quote]
So you are basically taking 2011’s OWGR into account for the history of the event?

In the mid and early 2000's the International team was stacked with talent that was in their prime. Vijay, Ernie, Ratief, Weir, Scott, Norman Elkington, etc…. I recall reading once that in two of these events they had 6 of the top 12 players in the world. But the best they could mustard was a tie? No way have we won all of these events because our players were better. That is a very narrow and protected opinion to have.

I could easily argue that you say the Euros have better players than the US on the Ryder Cup. They have a better team. Their team is better than ours because they take the event more serious. For the Euros the RC is practically a major. Why do you think Pavin and Azinger tried so hard for the last years to get our players to care? Because they know the Euros win with passion and as a team.

[highdraw69]

“We want to cut out an American’s heart and present it to them on the 18th green,” said International skipper Greg Norman.

hard to believe Norman said that; what an insufferable jerk this clown is; and what an embarrassment he must be to the international players who primarily make their living (and their home) in America, thanks to generosity from corporate America; i think Norman is trying to stir up things (like his recent negative comments toward Tiger) because he can't compete at golf anymore and has a losing record as a captain in this event -- he should just have been quiet, gracious and exuded confidence without opening his lips to remind everyone what a fool he is

[130R]

[quote name='Skaffa77' timestamp='1321463004' post='3808097']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1321409480' post='3805667']
I hope Tiger plays Baddeley in singles.
[/quote]

I would also enjoying seeing that match!
[/quote]

Im hoping for a Tiger v's Day match myself, Jason gets a lot more fired up on course and anything could happen

[ethanlculver]

[quote name='highdraw69' timestamp='1321480452' post='3809375']
"We want to cut out an American's heart and present it to them on the 18th green," said International skipper Greg Norman.

hard to believe Norman said that; what an insufferable jerk this clown is; and what an embarrassment he must be to the international players who primarily make their living (and their home) in America, thanks to generosity from corporate America; i think Norman is trying to stir up things (like his recent negative comments toward Tiger) because he can't compete at golf anymore and has a losing record as a captain in this event -- he should just have been quiet, gracious and exuded confidence without opening his lips to remind everyone what a fool he is
[/quote]

I'd like to write some stuff of my own, but I'm not going to because I'll be blown apart by the people who do like Greg on here.

All I'll say is: I agree for the most part.

Can't wait to see what Greg has to say when Tiger wins that next major.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd also like to comment on the pairings since I haven't been on the internet since before they were announced last night.

Greg definitely had everything down and spit out his picks fairly quickly, while Freddy took more time to discuss with his vice-captains before making a pairing.

I was pretty surprised to see Els and Ishikawa paired together, and I was also surprised to see Norman send Goosen and Allenby out against Mickelson and Furyk. Phil and Jimmy could totally crush Goose and Robert. Allenby did not play well last week at the Australian Open, and I haven't heard much of what Goose is up to these days. That may be the weakest pairing the International team put together.

[tigerphan]

Go International Team! but the only thing is i want tiger to not loose at same time ....

[avrag]

[quote name='highdraw69' timestamp='1321480452' post='3809375']
“We want to cut out an American’s heart and present it to them on the 18th green,” said International skipper Greg Norman.

hard to believe Norman said that; what an insufferable jerk this clown is; and what an embarrassment he must be to the international players who primarily make their living (and their home) in America, thanks to generosity from corporate America; i think Norman is trying to stir up things (like his recent negative comments toward Tiger) because he can't compete at golf anymore and has a losing record as a captain in this event -- he should just have been quiet, gracious and exuded confidence without opening his lips to remind everyone what a fool he is
[/quote]

I read that as well and asked myself if he was high on something. I hate that sort of talk in any sport, even if it is something more physical than golf. In golf, it is just plain stupid.

[Pinsplitter59]

i had a look yesterday practice day.
didn't see much, players all over the place and hard to find.
most didn't play full 18 holes.
Tiger's group didn't look very serious except on the greens,
they all spent a lot of time putting.
the course looks awesome (sorry about that word),
some of the best greens in the world i think and looking to get very very firm.
as Greg Norman said years ago you gotta keep it under the hole on this course.
Tiger looked pretty good imho, hitting it pretty straight.
just a pic from a video sequence.
[attachment=917721:tiger_pres_cup_wed.jpg]

[ethanlculver]

[quote name='avrag' timestamp='1321481354' post='3809455']
[quote name='highdraw69' timestamp='1321480452' post='3809375']
"We want to cut out an American's heart and present it to them on the 18th green," said International skipper Greg Norman.

hard to believe Norman said that; what an insufferable jerk this clown is; and what an embarrassment he must be to the international players who primarily make their living (and their home) in America, thanks to generosity from corporate America; i think Norman is trying to stir up things (like his recent negative comments toward Tiger) because he can't compete at golf anymore and has a losing record as a captain in this event -- he should just have been quiet, gracious and exuded confidence without opening his lips to remind everyone what a fool he is
[/quote]

I read that as well and asked myself if he was high on something. I hate that sort of talk in any sport, even if it is something more physical than golf. In golf, it is just plain stupid.
[/quote]

Agree 100%. Freddy has much more class than Norman does, IMO.

[AP2 712]

How many pages will the thread grow once the circus otherwise known as match #6 begins today/tonight? I'll say were going to get up to page 10 before the match is through.... after all the man doesn't move the needle....he is the needle

[Hawkeye77]

Just a comment at the event. I'm pretty sure it was metaphorical, but if you see Norman with a scalpel I guess you can hold your skirts down and run.

If they need a little fire to get them going, so what.

Norman has said plenty of good things about Tiger the past two days, they had a chat, big deal.

It's an exhibition.

[Sing Golfer]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1321459034' post='3807675']
[quote name='Sing Golfer' timestamp='1321444804' post='3806747']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1321425149' post='3806513']
US will win this thing. The problem with the P-Cup Inter team is that they have a language barrier and there is no comradery. Even when they had 6 of the 12 top players in the world they could not beat the US. The time the US team spends together during the Ryder Cup and PGA Tour is a huge advantage. This year is a little different with it being in Australia and all the Aussies, but I still think the language barrier with the other players is a huge disadvantage. US will win....
[/quote]

The language barrier isn't all that large given the guys from Asia all have enough English to get by. At the end of the day, the discussion amounts to "you've hit it in the fairway, should I try to bomb one?" It's not like they are trying to solve the European debt crisis.

I also disagree about the comaradarie. Again, language has little to do with it. (watch Marayama in 1998 who had no English - he and his team mates are rocking). It is about a shared interest, trust and respect. Friendship helps. Comaradarie and team spirit - let's see Phil and Tiger high fiving!

Ultimately it is about golfing skill and within that who holes the most putts. With Els, Allenby and Goosen you have 3 of the worst putters on tour - Els and Goosen in the team on their 2010 performance you have some serious weak spots on that front in the international team. RM experience offsets it for Els and Allenby - Internationals by a point.
[/quote]

I disagree- you are not looking at the big picture and only what happens on the course. The Euro's will tell you that much of team play has to do with what happens behind closed doors and the relationships formed in the team room. Could you imagine the team room of the international squad? Each click of buddies all from the same regions enjoying their time together, but little time spent with the entire team together. Wife's and children will do the same.... Then they have to go play together and act like they care for one another. This is a team and in order for teams to be successful, they have to care for each other and unit.

Have you heard the stories of Tiger, Phil and everyone else playing ping pong? All the wife's going on a day trip and wine tasting? These are the things that make a team successful and form relationships.

If I am wrong- how can you explain the internationals failures and how the US Team looks so good in the Presidents Cup only to lose to a more united team in the Ryder Cup?
[/quote]

Golfing ability pure and simple has been the major difference. I couldn't care less if the wife's of the US team go on a wine tasting trip together - the % contribution this would have to team spirit and subsequently score is about 0.000001%.

The second issue is there have only been 2 President Cup's outside of North America - THE US IS PLAYING ALMOST ALL HOME GAMES IN THE PRESIDENTS CUP!!!

[Green Valley]

USA wins

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='Yepyukon' timestamp='1321414612' post='3806017']
[quote name='cfortner' timestamp='1321414312' post='3806001']
There is not a chance in Hell in that adam scott will beat Tiger. When he is on a mission, there isnt a human being on this earth that can beat him.

[/quote]

But keep in mind, this isn't Scott vs Tiger. It is a team match which those two just happen to be on the opposing teams.
[/quote]

A foursome match at that. Woods and Scott will only be hitting half of the shots.

[Hawkeye77]

And Steve won't hit any.

[Body_Visions]

Can anyone tell me which coverage is live and which is replays? I have looked all over and can't seem to find it.

I think only the prime time Golf Channel coverage is live the first two days. Is this correct?

What about Saturday and Sunday?

Thanks in advance!!

[Hawkeye77]

Go to the President's Cup website. There is live coverage every day.

It's part of the PGA Tour site.

[calder]

Anyone have a link to a stream that will be showing it?

[MerliSYD]

Meh... I'm not sure why you guys are surprised at his crass comments.... Greg Norman has never been known for his "class".

[poizster]

Did anyone just see the International team pep talk segment by Rymer on the GC. WTF? Golf Channel just show past president cup coverage instead of a 13 hour pregrame show until the golf begins. I miss the Australian Open commentators already, I think I'll try and find a stream from another country with a different crew altogether. I can't take it anymore.

[jj9000]

Geoff Ogillvy looks like a Freddie Mercury stunt double.

[SteveL1]

[quote]Golfing ability pure and simple has been the major difference. I couldn't care less if the wife's of the US team go on a wine tasting trip together - the % contribution this would have to team spirit and subsequently score is about 0.000001%.
[/quote]

Hmmm, you must not be married. Wife not happy mean players not happy. Player not happy = play bad golf. Unhappy wife could have HUGE affect on subsequent score. Happy wife keep player happy, if you know what I mean.

[pappaf2]

[quote name='SteveL1' timestamp='1321494065' post='3810541']
[quote]Golfing ability pure and simple has been the major difference. I couldn't care less if the wife's of the US team go on a wine tasting trip together - the % contribution this would have to team spirit and subsequently score is about 0.000001%.
[/quote]

Hmmm, you must not be married. Wife not happy mean players not happy. Player not happy = play bad golf. Unhappy wife could have HUGE affect on subsequent score. Happy wife keep player happy, if you know what I mean.
[/quote]
Happy wife happy life.