Belly/broomstick/long putter legal, anchoring not...

[RookieBlue7]

[quote name='KDMullins' timestamp='1328727834' post='4238941']
[quote name='RookieBlue7' timestamp='1328727310' post='4238861']
So show me, where is there a lawsuit? How can one sue for [b]not[/b] being told they can't use this equipment? Will the equipment still be available? Absolutely. So how can you sue on them taking nothing away as far as being able to use it other than the fact that the person is anchoring with it currently? Last I checked, alleviating a medical condition doesn't involve a golf club being anchored, it's a posture discussion. How does it change one's being allowed to use those putters by saying that it can't be anchored?
[/quote]

I think a reasonable argument could be made on behalf of guys like Keegan Bradley and/or Webb Simpson that they started using the long putters, and they did so in reliance on the fact that they had been in use for over 20 years on professional golf tours and were legal. If the belly putter is taken away, and they can show that their career(s) has been damaged, they have relied to their detriment, and they would have a valid argument that the USGA and/or R&A intentionally and/or negligently interfered with their business, including their ability to make a living, enter into endorsement deals, etc. Such a claim could be worth millions.
[/quote]


Again, will they be told they can't use the clubs?

[KDMullins]

[quote name='RookieBlue7' timestamp='1328728585' post='4239043']
[quote name='KDMullins' timestamp='1328727834' post='4238941']
[quote name='RookieBlue7' timestamp='1328727310' post='4238861']
So show me, where is there a lawsuit? How can one sue for [b]not[/b] being told they can't use this equipment? Will the equipment still be available? Absolutely. So how can you sue on them taking nothing away as far as being able to use it other than the fact that the person is anchoring with it currently? Last I checked, alleviating a medical condition doesn't involve a golf club being anchored, it's a posture discussion. How does it change one's being allowed to use those putters by saying that it can't be anchored?
[/quote]

I think a reasonable argument could be made on behalf of guys like Keegan Bradley and/or Webb Simpson that they started using the long putters, and they did so in reliance on the fact that they had been in use for over 20 years on professional golf tours and were legal. If the belly putter is taken away, and they can show that their career(s) has been damaged, they have relied to their detriment, and they would have a valid argument that the USGA and/or R&A intentionally and/or negligently interfered with their business, including their ability to make a living, enter into endorsement deals, etc. Such a claim could be worth millions.
[/quote]


Again, will they be told they can't use the clubs?
[/quote]

No, but they could no longer use them as they were intended to be used and/or designed to be used.

You're making a distinction that doesn't have any real legal significance. To the extent the player(s) relied on the fact that the putters were legal to be used in the manner that they were using them, and a third party thereafter came in and "changed the rules of the game" causing them monetary damage, they would have a valid claim.

[Socrates]

[quote name='RookieBlue7' timestamp='1328728585' post='4239043']
[quote name='KDMullins' timestamp='1328727834' post='4238941']
[quote name='RookieBlue7' timestamp='1328727310' post='4238861']
So show me, where is there a lawsuit? How can one sue for [b]not[/b] being told they can't use this equipment? Will the equipment still be available? Absolutely. So how can you sue on them taking nothing away as far as being able to use it other than the fact that the person is anchoring with it currently? Last I checked, alleviating a medical condition doesn't involve a golf club being anchored, it's a posture discussion. How does it change one's being allowed to use those putters by saying that it can't be anchored?
[/quote]

I think a reasonable argument could be made on behalf of guys like Keegan Bradley and/or Webb Simpson that they started using the long putters, and they did so in reliance on the fact that they had been in use for over 20 years on professional golf tours and were legal. If the belly putter is taken away, and they can show that their career(s) has been damaged, they have relied to their detriment, and they would have a valid argument that the USGA and/or R&A intentionally and/or negligently interfered with their business, including their ability to make a living, enter into endorsement deals, etc. Such a claim could be worth millions.
[/quote]


Again, will they be told they can't use the clubs?
[/quote]
If Tiger had his way...yes.

[Dead Solid Perfect]

The one thing I find interesting is this. In a time whenthe USGA says over and over we need to grow the game, with ideas coming out to play it shorter,the course that is. Allowing oversized drivers to make the game easier, allowing the modern tech balls, andnow something comes out that seems to be helping people score better aka have more fun. Now the USGA steps up and states they are thinking of a rule change to protect the game. Anyone else see something weird about this?

[Socrates]

Eventually the Ruling Bodies will meet, discuss the topic (whether or not they have any empirical data) and then invoke the clause in 14-3 and render a decision that clarifies the unusual use of equipment to include anchoring. That will in effect ban the long putter if any part of it touches any part of the body other than the hands. Shortly thereafter, the Senior Tour will disband since no one can finish a hole and about 40 guys on the Tour will drop out of the top 125 rankings - never to be heard of again. The R&A along with the USGA will stand proudly before us and tell us that all is good again and Tiger can catch Jack.

Okay the last two sentences may or may not happen, but I'm pretty sure the first two will in time for the 2013 season. We can be as passionate as we want to be about either one, but I think with the new USGA President being onside with the R&A on this, it is a done deal. Just a matter of timing the announcement (my guess is right after the British Open).

Until then, I will continue on with my belly putter (the whole prying out of my cold dead hands thingy) with the occasional tinkering with a 38" traditional putter.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Dead Solid Perfect' timestamp='1328730622' post='4239339']
The one thing I find interesting is this. In a time whenthe USGA says over and over we need to grow the game, with ideas coming out to play it shorter,the course that is. Allowing oversized drivers to make the game easier, allowing the modern tech balls, andnow something comes out that seems to be helping people score better aka have more fun. Now the USGA steps up and states they are thinking of a rule change to protect the game. Anyone else see something weird about this?
[/quote]

It appears to me, with so many up in arms over it, they have no choice but to look into the issues...

Kevin

[Hoot151]

If you guys played the game for a living then I guess I could understand such strong opinions but the way some of you are foaming at the mouth is just laughable. Also, declaring that someone is "cheating" for using a long putter, at least until the rules are changed, is petty and childish.

Edit: As I said in the other thread, this is a case study in groupthink and its amazing to me how many people are chirping from the peanut gallery now that TW has complained about it.

[juanki]

[quote name='KDMullins' timestamp='1328728921' post='4239089']
[quote name='RookieBlue7' timestamp='1328728585' post='4239043']
[quote name='KDMullins' timestamp='1328727834' post='4238941']
[quote name='RookieBlue7' timestamp='1328727310' post='4238861']
So show me, where is there a lawsuit? How can one sue for [b]not[/b] being told they can't use this equipment? Will the equipment still be available? Absolutely. So how can you sue on them taking nothing away as far as being able to use it other than the fact that the person is anchoring with it currently? Last I checked, alleviating a medical condition doesn't involve a golf club being anchored, it's a posture discussion. How does it change one's being allowed to use those putters by saying that it can't be anchored?
[/quote]

I think a reasonable argument could be made on behalf of guys like Keegan Bradley and/or Webb Simpson that they started using the long putters, and they did so in reliance on the fact that they had been in use for over 20 years on professional golf tours and were legal. If the belly putter is taken away, and they can show that their career(s) has been damaged, they have relied to their detriment, and they would have a valid argument that the USGA and/or R&A intentionally and/or negligently interfered with their business, including their ability to make a living, enter into endorsement deals, etc. Such a claim could be worth millions.
[/quote]


Again, will they be told they can't use the clubs?
[/quote]

No, but they could no longer use them as they were intended to be used and/or designed to be used.

You're making a distinction that doesn't have any real legal significance. To the extent the player(s) relied on the fact that the putters were legal to be used in the manner that they were using them, and a third party thereafter came in and "changed the rules of the game" causing them monetary damage, they would have a valid claim.
[/quote]

answer: practice and get better at putting the way it should be (if they ban anchoring).

i think anchoring the putter to your body does help a lot a person that has trouble with putting, making it easy to control the stroke as less parts are moving. i think anchoring sholud be permitted as a training tool.

[KDMullins]

[quote name='Hoot151' timestamp='1328732100' post='4239549']
[b]If you guys played the game for a living then I guess I could understand such strong opinions but the way some of you are foaming at the mouth is just laughable. [/b] Also, declaring that someone is "cheating" for using a long putter, at least until the rules are changed, is petty and childish.

Edit: As I said in the other thread, this is a case study in groupthink and its amazing to me how many people are chirping from the peanut gallery now that TW has complained about it.
[/quote]

Oh, come on! Nobody's foaming at the mouth...it's a fun debate. Plus, this is a really significant proposed change to the rules. Moreso than Groove Gate, or whatever they called it IMO.

[KDMullins]

[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1328730829' post='4239369']
[quote name='Dead Solid Perfect' timestamp='1328730622' post='4239339']
The one thing I find interesting is this. In a time whenthe USGA says over and over we need to grow the game, with ideas coming out to play it shorter,the course that is. Allowing oversized drivers to make the game easier, allowing the modern tech balls, andnow something comes out that seems to be helping people score better aka have more fun. Now the USGA steps up and states they are thinking of a rule change to protect the game. Anyone else see something weird about this?
[/quote]

It appears to me, with so many up in arms over it, they have no choice but to look into the issues...

Kevin
[/quote]

Something I wonder is to what extent it's been looked into before now. Does anybody know?

I mean, seriously, guys have been using these things for 25 years. Why just now has this come to the point where we HAVE to decide if it's going to remain legal or not? Seems like that should've already been decided to the extent that it would ever be necessary to decide it. The urgency now (after we have a major winner and FedEx Cup champion using long putters) just seems like sour grapes.

[Socrates]

[quote name='juanki' timestamp='1328732199' post='4239565']
answer: practice and get better at putting the way it should be (if they ban anchoring).
[/quote]
No thanks. I've already spent 35 years on it and nearly 20 with the yips. It's not going away regardless of how many hours one practices. First ray of sunshine I've had in the putting department in years and because a few people think it's not golf, they're going to take it away. And people wonder why this is a passionate topic.

[Steve Hennessey]

Tiger's proposal is a bit off-based, says our equipment editors, Bomb & Gouge. They explain what's wrong with his proposal here: [url="http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equipment/blogs/hotlist365/2012/02/tiger-woodss-belly-ban-idea-a.html"]Tiger Woods' belly ban idea a little half-baked.[/url]

[Hoot151]

[quote name='KDMullins' timestamp='1328733127' post='4239649']
[quote name='Hoot151' timestamp='1328732100' post='4239549']
[b]If you guys played the game for a living then I guess I could understand such strong opinions but the way some of you are foaming at the mouth is just laughable. [/b] Also, declaring that someone is "cheating" for using a long putter, at least until the rules are changed, is petty and childish.

Edit: As I said in the other thread, this is a case study in groupthink and its amazing to me how many people are chirping from the peanut gallery now that TW has complained about it.
[/quote]

Oh, come on! Nobody's foaming at the mouth...it's a fun debate. Plus, this is a really significant proposed change to the rules. Moreso than Groove Gate, or whatever they called it IMO.
[/quote]

Most are engaging in a fun debate. Some are speaking with the zealotry usually reserved for medieval religious crusades. There's definitely some frothing going on.

[KDMullins]

[quote name='Hoot151' timestamp='1328734450' post='4239749']
[quote name='KDMullins' timestamp='1328733127' post='4239649']
[quote name='Hoot151' timestamp='1328732100' post='4239549']
[b]If you guys played the game for a living then I guess I could understand such strong opinions but the way some of you are foaming at the mouth is just laughable. [/b] Also, declaring that someone is "cheating" for using a long putter, at least until the rules are changed, is petty and childish.

Edit: As I said in the other thread, this is a case study in groupthink and its amazing to me how many people are chirping from the peanut gallery now that TW has complained about it.
[/quote]

Oh, come on! Nobody's foaming at the mouth...it's a fun debate. Plus, this is a really significant proposed change to the rules. Moreso than Groove Gate, or whatever they called it IMO.
[/quote]

Most are engaging in a fun debate. Some are speaking with the zealotry usually reserved for medieval religious crusades. There's definitely some frothing going on.
[/quote]

Well played...and you're probably right.

[indyvai]

I froth a bit every time I read one of Rookies posts because I keep thinking I went back a few pages by accident...

So they are not banning long putters?

[RookieBlue7]

[quote name='Hoot151' timestamp='1328734450' post='4239749']
[quote name='KDMullins' timestamp='1328733127' post='4239649']
[quote name='Hoot151' timestamp='1328732100' post='4239549']
[b]If you guys played the game for a living then I guess I could understand such strong opinions but the way some of you are foaming at the mouth is just laughable. [/b] Also, declaring that someone is "cheating" for using a long putter, at least until the rules are changed, is petty and childish.

Edit: As I said in the other thread, this is a case study in groupthink and its amazing to me how many people are chirping from the peanut gallery now that TW has complained about it.
[/quote]

Oh, come on! Nobody's foaming at the mouth...it's a fun debate. Plus, this is a really significant proposed change to the rules. Moreso than Groove Gate, or whatever they called it IMO.
[/quote]

Most are engaging in a fun debate. Some are speaking with the zealotry usually reserved for medieval religious crusades. There's definitely some frothing going on.
[/quote]


I could honestly care less, but I love sparking heated and fiery debates which is why I'm taking one side and going to the extreme with the ideas. If I were on the side of long putter users (which I knew would be the majority of opposers to the thread and idea), I'd go to that extreme. As it stands, I knew what the minority opinion would be when I posted the thread, which is the reasoning for the stance I'm taking. There's a guy in my normal foursome that uses a belly I built for him at his request (and because his putting couldn't have gotten any worse and I knew he'd try anything from a putter to a hockey stick to improve it. His putting really did improve a LOT). I give him as much grief about it as I am persons in this thread. At the end of the day, I really could care less, but I had to take a stance, and being as I like a good debate (I did some debating in school for the debate team), you have to take one side and go full bore with it and concede absolutely no points. It's a lot of fun, to me at least, to really rile people up during a debate because you get a true, passionate response supporting their viewpoint. I know there's passionate persons on either side, and I knew there would be strong debate. Why do you think I've been so active in this thread? Because I wanted the strong debate to take place and sustain to see honest opinions from both sides with passionate responses.

Would I play with anyone out there regardless of what putter they use? Of course, I don't care. Use those outlaw golf balls, a long drive club at 75 inches, or whatever you want. As long as we're not playing for money, I don't care. If we're playing for money, use anything you want within the CURRENT rules of golf and I'm fine with that as well(even an anchored putter or a 48" driver, heck, I have a long drive club I built for scrambles for the extra handful of yards). I'm going to have fun playing the game regardless, and I'm going to drink alcohol and laugh and cut up while doing so. And I'll even give someone some grief, because that's the mental approach. As long as it's good natured and I don't talk about someone's family or kids, I feel it's perfectly fine and part of gamesmanship.

Do I really believe that the long putters are bad? No, again, I don't really care because you still have to get the ball in the hole. But, for the sake of a good debate, I had to take a strong opinion that was based from one side or the other. I knew the title would draw in the long putter crowd to support their opinion strongly. Naturally, there had to be an opposing viewpoint that strongly supported the contrary. If there's no good debate, why debate at all?

At the end of the day, I just love discussing golf. I enjoy talking about everything related to it. I have no ill will toward anyone that wants to play the game, talk about it, or life in general. But, in every good debate, there has to be that radical opinion, IMO, to really draw out the responses that people really believe.

[nbg352]

The history of anchored putters is long and honorable. Read on.....


HISTORY OF LONG PUTTER

-- The late Paul Runyan, who twice won the PGA Championship and later taught golf at La Jolla Country Club, wrote a 1966 article for Golf Digest in which he discussed playing the 1936 Belmont Open in Boston with his putter anchored to his belly. “An advantage I hadn’t expected is that this system minimizes the adverse effects of nervous tension,” Runyan wrote

-- Suffering badly from the yips, Johnny Miller became the first modern pro to put a long putter into play at the 1980 L.A. Open. “All the pros laughed at me,” Miller said earlier this year. “Of course, now it’s no big deal.”

-- Orville Moody, whose only win on the PGA Tour was the 1969 U.S. Open, switched to a long putter when he joined the Senior Tour in 1984. He notched 11 victories, including the 1989 U.S. Senior Open

-- Stricken with a bad back, Rocco Mediate used a long putter to win at Doral in 1991

-- Paul Azinger came back from cancer and won the Sony Open with one in 2000;

-- Vijay Singh won four times in 2003 with a belly putter

-- Bernhard Langer, who battled the yips for years, has 14 wins on the Champions Tour with a long putter

[golfnut-2X]

I like the history post.

I am currently use a short putter and can't see the banners view point and how its different from all the other technology changes that are ok.

In process of testing a belly and thinking about switching. BTW some advantages i find for a short putter has over the belly are 1) long lags are easier since the wrists are involved, 2) off the green a bit is easier for same reason, 3) i find the short strokes where I can make a pure straight back and square stroke is advantage where the belly forces the face open and closed.

i didn't think i can lose more respect for tiger woods but with him coming out now after getting his butt wooped for a few years and with such a wave of the young up starts i can't really consider anything that comes out of his mouth without the lens that he is trying to get a competitive advantage. not sure why everyone still jumps when he speaks now a days except i guess if he plays well he still brings in tv ratings.

[indyvai]

Ditto on the Tiger comment... I want to see him paired with Webb Simpson on a Sunday... and a side note... isn't Stevie carrying for Scott?

[StugyGolf]

I do not really know where I stand on this subject, although I do use a belly putter, but do not use it because I am a BAD putter, but more so it has given me a little more control and helps out when I cannot practise as much (which has become a reality unfortunately with life and being an assistant pro).

But what I do know, is that no matter what level you look at, there are still more players using a traditional putter than a long putter. I myself only have 2 students who've used/are using an alternative putter. I believe this will remain a controversial topic, but will be moot UNTIL the majority (or close to) of professionals are using alternative putters or the majority of events are being won by players using them.

[Dead Solid Perfect]

[quote name='Steve Hennessey' timestamp='1328733599' post='4239685']
Tiger's proposal is a bit off-based, says our equipment editors, Bomb & Gouge. They explain what's wrong with his proposal here: [url="http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equipment/blogs/hotlist365/2012/02/tiger-woodss-belly-ban-idea-a.html"]Tiger Woods' belly ban idea a little half-baked.[/url]
[/quote]
TW is just mad because he can't putt with one or one would be in his bag.

[onafriday]

[quote name='StugyGolf' timestamp='1328747134' post='4241173']
I do not really know where I stand on this subject, although I do use a belly putter, but do not use it because I am a BAD putter, but more so it has given me a little more control and helps out when I cannot practise as much (which has become a reality unfortunately with life and being an assistant pro).

But what I do know, is that no matter what level you look at, there are still more players using a traditional putter than a long putter. I myself only have 2 students who've used/are using an alternative putter. I believe this will remain a controversial topic, but will be moot UNTIL the majority (or close to) of professionals are using alternative putters or the majority of events are being won by players using them.
[/quote]


Yep - not really an issue until everyone is using them and winning. That's why the groove rule comparison isn't really fair - EVERYONE was using those grooves. Long(er) putters, it's just not that big of a deal. Look at the stats of the best putters out there - Stricker, Donald, etc. Shorties! And they use inserts! BAN INSERT PUTTERS!!!!!

Psh-

[golfnut-2X]

i wouldn't be surprised that tw tried a belly putter and couldn't put with it. didn't he recently change his putter grip. you bet during that process he tried other putters while testing other grips.

just a side comment to thoughs that still think he walks on water and ban putting styles because he wants them to - you know he must be an *ss underneath the marketing persona bs when his wife, swing coach, and caddie don't want to be near him. when someone like that talks i just find it hard to listen. he's certainly no jack nor an arnie.

if i can only invent a belly putting club/shaft/style that for short putts keeps the face square rather than opening and closing I would switch quickly and make millions in the process

Els plays one - wasn't he number one in the world in his career? Vijay - i think he was also number one in his career. Phil also wanted to play with one and tried in a couple tourneys but decided it didn't work as well his short stick so he switched back.

I am curious how many of the current top 25 putters in the world use the the traditional right hand low thumbs down the shaft grip? if they don't should they be allowed to grip it other than the traditional style? curious if they are still using the traditional right hand low grip or have some deviation of the traditional grip like left hand low or different style.

[Tactical Golf]

Another quick history lesson......the style of putting used by Sam Snead, croquet style, was NOT banned due to the non-traditional non-standard style, his straddling of the line was......hence what is known as "sidesaddle". There was absolutely NO difference in the stroke. Is that stroke "natural"? I putt with my short putter using split hands.....is that natural? Time to get off the It's not a natural stroke" train.

[Deerslayer]

[size="6"][b]NO [/b][/size][size="2"] and the USGA should have taken this on BEFORE it got out of control like it is now. I see juniors play and will tell you that the number of belly putters being used is exploding. If things continue, every new player will learn to putt with this method and it will IMHO compromise the game. I don't understand how it EVER has been legal. It is definitely not the way the game was intended to be played. They outlawed the croquet style putting, why not this. [/size]

[KYMAR]

[quote name='Dead Solid Perfect' timestamp='1328748380' post='4241337']
[quote name='Steve Hennessey' timestamp='1328733599' post='4239685']
Tiger's proposal is a bit off-based, says our equipment editors, Bomb & Gouge. They explain what's wrong with his proposal here: [url="http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equipment/blogs/hotlist365/2012/02/tiger-woodss-belly-ban-idea-a.html"]Tiger Woods' belly ban idea a little half-baked.[/url]
[/quote]
TW is just mad because he can't putt with one or one would be in his bag.
[/quote]

This is actually humorous. You don't see the issue as one of principal and would have no issue using an anchored putter. You then use that personal opinion as the basis to form that which you offer here as fact about what TW [i]really [/i]thinks about it? It can't be that he, and other pro's who feel the same way, really mean what they say?

Are all of the pros who are against the anchored putter really just this shallow and selfish, realizing it doesn't work for them. I mean is anybody who feels this way about the use of the things reasonable? Talk about frothing.

[farmer]

In an early post, I admitted using a belly rather than a "stubby" or "poker" because I stroke it better. I think for tour players it's kind of a fad and guys are trying them just as an experiment. When most don't putt any better with a belly, they'll go back to their zillion dollar Scotty's and the game will go on. As for me, I endorse the cold, dead hands model.

[nbg352]

In an earlier post I tried to show the rather long and honorable history of the long putter over a period of at least 75 years. No one wants to know about it. No one cares about the history of the long putter. If anyone read it, it fell on deaf ears. No-one wants to know about it. Even though this putter and anchoring has helped shape golf history.
Why is that, do you suppose?
I think it is because the people on this site only care about their own voice. I think that the people here are only interested in their own moment in the spotlight, no matter how dim it may shine on them. I guess that is fine. But, it doesn't get us any where near the truth, does it Rookie, you who wish to play devils advocate, just so you can be seen. Why did it take so many pages for your admission? Just to fan the flames? To what end? If this is the greatest golf forum in North America available to those who truly love the game and it's history, then I am truly saddened.
The long putter is legal. So is anchoring it to the body. As it has been since long before most of you were born. The idea for it's use has always been there. It has never gained great popularity because not everyone who attempts it's use has success with it. It is not an easy fix for everyone. But for those whose games improve because of it, so be it. It's legality speaks for it's use.
Be honest in this, the best golf forum available to us all. Do not be the majority on this site who hit it 300+ with X shafts. If you are going to voice an opinion, then make it count. With honesty and integrity in you heart and in your words. The people who read you, count on that. I know I do.
I am not sorry for this rant. I will only be sorry if it too falls on nothing but deaf ears.
However I do apologize to those I may have offended. Especially those who spoke not just with their hearts but with wisdom, also.

Warren

[Peter K.]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1328740492' post='4240433']
The history of anchored putters is long and honorable. Read on.....


HISTORY OF LONG PUTTER

-- The late Paul Runyan, who twice won the PGA Championship and later taught golf at La Jolla Country Club, wrote a 1966 article for Golf Digest in which he discussed playing the 1936 Belmont Open in Boston with his putter anchored to his belly. "An advantage I hadn't expected is that this system minimizes the adverse effects of nervous tension," Runyan wrote

-- Suffering badly from the yips, Johnny Miller became the first modern pro to put a long putter into play at the 1980 L.A. Open. "All the pros laughed at me," Miller said earlier this year. "Of course, now it's no big deal."

-- Orville Moody, whose only win on the PGA Tour was the 1969 U.S. Open, switched to a long putter when he joined the Senior Tour in 1984. He notched 11 victories, including the 1989 U.S. Senior Open

-- Stricken with a bad back, Rocco Mediate used a long putter to win at Doral in 1991

-- Paul Azinger came back from cancer and won the Sony Open with one in 2000;

-- Vijay Singh won four times in 2003 with a belly putter

-- Bernhard Langer, who battled the yips for years, has 14 wins on the Champions Tour with a long putter
[/quote]

Hi Warren,

While I find the spirit of your most recent post pleasant, I don't agree that the history above should be necessarily characterized as "honorable". Here is how I read it:

Paul Runyan admitted that this equipment-method combination provided an artificial (my word) advantage, minimizing the adverse effects of nervous tension. Isn't effectively dealing with nervous tension what makes top pro golfers the best in the world?

Johnny Miller used a "crutch" to deal with the yips.

Orville Moody went from a one-hit-wonder/middle of the pack pro golfer to a world-beating senior using the "crutch".

Maybe Rocco wasn't ready to return to golf yet; same with Azinger.

Vijay couldn't solve the yips either and went to the "crutch"; same with Langer.

The point I'm trying to make is that not just anyone has the right to play professional golf. You have to be good enough; not just good enough at ballstriking, but good enough at golf (all parts). It isn't that I don't have sympathy for those with health/injury/nerve concerns, but - well - I don't for the pros. I have already, in an earlier post, said that I am for bifurcation in this instance; ams should use whatever works.

[Dave D]

I think purely for the fact they help people with bad backs keep playing they should be allowed. Freddie may have not been playing for the last few years had he not switched