Belly/broomstick/long putter legal, anchoring not...

[GIR LOL]

What really hit home with me was when he talked about kids growing up only knowing how to putt with an anchored putter. I can not imagin a day when I buy my son or daughter a starter set that comes with a belly putter. It just doesn't seem right.

[phil75070]

I've tried both belly and long putters over the years, the long putter as far back as '95. I still have a belly putter in the garage. I found neither gave me consistent improvement over a standard putter for any length of time. I still could pull or push putts no matter how long or short they were.

[golfnut-2X]

that 64 was beuatiful to watch - paired with tiger and spanked him by 11 strokes in only 18 holes.

[Jamboy72]

Interesting to note that with many of the younger players using the long putters we may never know if they could putt with anything else.

[Dead Solid Perfect]

[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1329175354' post='4279103']
Interesting to note that with many of the younger players using the long putters we may never know if they could putt with anything else.
[/quote]
I've made my point on which side I'm on in this debate. I would like to point out the scoring avg. hasn't change since the pros have started using the belly more.

[golfnut-2X]

[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1329175354' post='4279103']
Interesting to note that with many of the younger players using the long putters we may never know if they could putt with anything else.
[/quote]


Does it matter? If a younger player just uses a belly are they viewed as less of a golfer? Curious if people thought the same thing as younger generations moved to the current day pendulum stroke for faster greens when in palmers day the pop stroke was more acceptable. Today's young players probably never saw a 1iron or 2iron blade before since they most of the young professionals use hybrids or game improvement but I don't think it makes them less of a golfer than 60 years ago..

[The Wolfie]

I advised a european tour player in 2001 to switch to a broomhandle. He went on to qualify for the PGA tour, reached his highest world ranking of 25th and won at Hilton Head within 3 years. He had always been a good putter but the broomstick got him back to his best.

If he had been forced to use a standard putter his career would almost definitely come to an end

[gators78]

[quote name='The Wolfie' timestamp='1329229956' post='4283077']
I advised a european tour player in 2001 to switch to a broomhandle. He went on to qualify for the PGA tour, reached his highest world ranking of 25th and won at Hilton Head within 3 years. He had always been a good putter but the broomstick got him back to his best.

If he had been forced to use a standard putter his career would almost definitely come to an end
[/quote]

Quick sidebar, Peter Lonard is built like a **** Brickhouse. Dude is huge.

[Pitch'n'Putt]

I hope not, i just got a belly putter for this year. Though I dont think the rule will impact me as an amateur.

[lukesmurf59]

Good, this would mean I can stop practising with mine already! In all seriousness though, if they ban them, they can't really expect the pro's already using one to switch to a short putter right away, nor can they make them illegal for amateurs that already laid down the cash for a new putter anytime soon. If it happens, it will probably not be enforced for a few years for tour players and not until like 10-20 years for us amateures.

 

I don't see the point of banning them though. They've been around for ages and so what if they turn people into better putters eventually? It's not like it doesn't take a lot of practise and skill to be successful with them (believe me I'm trying)! Also the long putters seam to make it easier on the older guys backs. Would be cool (yet sad) if you had to apply for one, just like applying for handicap parking permission!

It should be banned immediately if they decide to ban the practice of anchoring. As for the part about bad backs, it's called getting older and if you can no linger be competitive on tour, hang it up and enjoy the casual game. I have no sympathy after they ruled that Casey Martin couldn't use a cart due to a degenerative disease in his leg. They told him to deal with it, well I say deal with a bad back or retire.

 

Try to walk a mile in Casey Martin's shoes and tell me you don't have sympathy for him. Oh wait. You can't walk in his shoes because he can't walk in his own shoes. Wanna rethink that statement? In terms of the bad back, do the same. Walk a mile in the shoes of someone w/ a bad back. Then, take the time it took you to walk a mile w/ a bad back and stand in a putting stance for that long. You'll see why they like longer putters.

My problem w/ people like you is that you say something 100% legal in the rules should be banned because it presents an unfair advantage. If it's there for everyone, how is it unfair? You and every other golfer in the world can choose to anchor their putter. If it is such a huge advantage then everyone would do it. Wouldn't you use the method that allows you to score best? That would be like putting in a provision that says you have to have at least two swing flaws. I'm going to swing my club the way that allows me to score best and the same goes for the putter. I don't know why people like you are bitter about guys beating them who anchor the putter. It does not present an advantage. I find it easier to make short putts but harder to gauge distance on long putts. The anchoring of a putter is not unfair. Something is only unfair if it is only there for a few select people. There is no rule that says you can't use the method but I can. It is 100% fair. People like you are just trying to sound like they're really better than people who anchor the putter and that if they had to putt like a real man you would've beaten them. Nope. Sorry, it's totally fair. You just won't use one because you think you're somehow better w/o it. I use both quite often and shockingly, you can too! (Gasp! Anyone can use this method? I had no idea!) It isn't unfair. There is nothing that stops anyone from anchoring the putter. (which doesn't give any more of an advantage than changing your grip or stroke path) Anchoring the putter is just a different way to stroke the putt, you can do it to. It's legal. You people have no argument as to why it is unfair, just go "you can't anchor the putter! That's not fair! I don't do it!" Newsflash, you can anchor the putter and it's totally fair. It's not the rest of the world's fault that you're unwilling to check your massive ego and use an ugly method that works. Leave your ego at the door and putt the way that helps you make more putts. Some people like conventional better, that's fine to. Everyone has the same options presented to them.

If the USGA are smart at all they will not ban the anchoring method. They already caught enough flack for the groove rule change (which really wasn't bad at all) they don't want the rest of the golf world mad at them.

[teamroper60]

[quote name='RookieBlue7' timestamp='1328560955' post='4224581']
It should be banned immediately if they decide to ban the practice of anchoring. As for the part about bad backs, it's called getting older and if you can no linger be competitive on tour, hang it up and enjoy the casual game. I have no sympathy after they ruled that Casey Martin couldn't use a cart due to a degenerative disease in his leg. They told him to deal with it, well I say deal with a bad back or retire.
[/quote]

What a callous comment! I sincerely hope that when you reach a point where you have a permanent physical ailment that impairs your ability to participate in an activity you enjoy, that you get the chance to eat these words...


BTW, a bad back is not something limited to the elderly. I have had one since the age of 16, thanks to a basketball injury. I doubt many over the age of 10 would believe 16 to be old...

[gators78]

[quote name='teamroper60' timestamp='1329288713' post='4289343']
[quote name='RookieBlue7' timestamp='1328560955' post='4224581']
It should be banned immediately if they decide to ban the practice of anchoring. As for the part about bad backs, it's called getting older and if you can no linger be competitive on tour, hang it up and enjoy the casual game. I have no sympathy after they ruled that Casey Martin couldn't use a cart due to a degenerative disease in his leg. They told him to deal with it, well I say deal with a bad back or retire.
[/quote]

What a callous comment! I sincerely hope that when you reach a point where you have a permanent physical ailment that impairs your ability to participate in an activity you enjoy, that you get the chance to eat these words...


BTW, a bad back is not something limited to the elderly. I have had one since the age of 16, thanks to a basketball injury. I doubt many over the age of 10 would believe 16 to be old...
[/quote]

First it's a false comment because he left out the part where the Supreme Court told the PGA Tour to deal with it and voted in CM favor.

Second don't sweat it too much, he admitted on page 7 he does this just for the sake of debate...

[nbg352]

[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1329312826' post='4289995']
[quote name='teamroper60' timestamp='1329288713' post='4289343']
[quote name='RookieBlue7' timestamp='1328560955' post='4224581']
It should be banned immediately if they decide to ban the practice of anchoring. As for the part about bad backs, it's called getting older and if you can no linger be competitive on tour, hang it up and enjoy the casual game. I have no sympathy after they ruled that Casey Martin couldn't use a cart due to a degenerative disease in his leg. They told him to deal with it, well I say deal with a bad back or retire.
[/quote]

What a callous comment! I sincerely hope that when you reach a point where you have a permanent physical ailment that impairs your ability to participate in an activity you enjoy, that you get the chance to eat these words...


BTW, a bad back is not something limited to the elderly. I have had one since the age of 16, thanks to a basketball injury. I doubt many over the age of 10 would believe 16 to be old...
[/quote]

First it's a false comment because he left out the part where the Supreme Court told the PGA Tour to deal with it and voted in CM favor.

Second don't sweat it too much, he admitted on page 7 he does this just for the sake of debate...
[/quote]

I won't respond to him, just for that reason

[mshills]

...frankly I can't yip the belly putter.

 

I beg to differ, but I do wish this was true!! Maybe you can't yip a belly putter, but I've seen it done, and have done it myself.

[golfnut-2X]

anyone know when the usga /r&a are supposed to issue a decision?

[nbg352]

[quote name='golfnut-2X' timestamp='1329326119' post='4291207']
anyone know when the usga /r&a are supposed to issue a decision?
[/quote]


In a GC interview this morning, Glen Nager of the USGA seemed to indicate that studies, interviews with players etc. still needed to be carried out, data compiled, conclusions reached. I sure didn't get the impression that a decision or even an opinion was going to be offered any time soon.
That was my take anyway. GN was a little vague, too, I thought

[nbg352]

Oh, I forgot to add, Glen Nager also confirmed that the USGA is opposed to any bifurcation.

[phil75070]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1329327289' post='4291353']
Oh, I forgot to add, Glen Nager also confirmed that the USGA is opposed to any bifurcation.
[/quote]

Then how do they explain how the groove rule is being implemented or does that somehow not fit the definition of bifurcation because ultimately (supposedly) even amateurs will have to comply in 2024?

[nbg352]

[quote name='phil75070' timestamp='1329329053' post='4291531']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1329327289' post='4291353']
Oh, I forgot to add, Glen Nager also confirmed that the USGA is opposed to any bifurcation.
[/quote]

Then how do they explain how the groove rule is being implemented or does that somehow not fit the definition of bifurcation because ultimately (supposedly) even amateurs will have to comply in 2024?
[/quote]

There is only a window for amateur use. 2015? Not sure of the date, but when that window closes, amateurs, like professionals, will no longer be able to use non-conforming grooves. The reasons for extending the date for amateurs have to do with the $ cost of conforming, especially those who had recently purchased wedges with the offending grooves, the suddeness of the decision and the USGA's contention that square grooves were of no real advantage to the majority of amateur players.

[gators78]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1329327289' post='4291353']
Oh, I forgot to add, Glen Nager also confirmed that the USGA is opposed to any bifurcation.
[/quote]

The USGA is just tossing back the bifurcation grenade to the PGA Tour on that one. I bet they'll allow long putters and have the PGA Tour make a rule on it. That or just take 20 years to compile data and by then nobody will care.

[3_Jack_Par]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1329330262' post='4291647']
[quote name='phil75070' timestamp='1329329053' post='4291531']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1329327289' post='4291353']
Oh, I forgot to add, Glen Nager also confirmed that the USGA is opposed to any bifurcation.
[/quote]

Then how do they explain how the groove rule is being implemented or does that somehow not fit the definition of bifurcation because ultimately (supposedly) even amateurs will have to comply in 2024?
[/quote]

There is only a window for amateur use. 2015? Not sure of the date, but when that window closes, amateurs, like professionals, will no longer be able to use non-conforming grooves. The reasons for extending the date for amateurs have to do with the $ cost of conforming, especially those who had recently purchased wedges with the offending grooves, the suddeness of the decision and the USGA's contention that square grooves were of no real advantage to the majority of amateur players.
[/quote]

Amateurs playing in high level tournaments (USGA tournaments, most scratch state Am tournaments) are required to convert by 2014. Those not playing in tournaments that require conforming grooves are not required to convert until 2024. And I'm sure anyone who doesn't switch clubs until then probably doesn't care too much about whether they're technically breaking the rules or not.

[nbg352]

[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1329330792' post='4291683']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1329327289' post='4291353']
Oh, I forgot to add, Glen Nager also confirmed that the USGA is opposed to any bifurcation.
[/quote]

The USGA is just tossing back the bifurcation grenade to the PGA Tour on that one. I bet they'll allow long putters and have the PGA Tour make a rule on it. That or just take 20 years to compile data and by then nobody will care.
[/quote]


20 years...sounds good to me.

[nbg352]

[quote name='3 Jack Par' timestamp='1329331121' post='4291705']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1329330262' post='4291647']
[quote name='phil75070' timestamp='1329329053' post='4291531']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1329327289' post='4291353']
Oh, I forgot to add, Glen Nager also confirmed that the USGA is opposed to any bifurcation.
[/quote]

Then how do they explain how the groove rule is being implemented or does that somehow not fit the definition of bifurcation because ultimately (supposedly) even amateurs will have to comply in 2024?
[/quote]

There is only a window for amateur use. 2015? Not sure of the date, but when that window closes, amateurs, like professionals, will no longer be able to use non-conforming grooves. The reasons for extending the date for amateurs have to do with the $ cost of conforming, especially those who had recently purchased wedges with the offending grooves, the suddeness of the decision and the USGA's contention that square grooves were of no real advantage to the majority of amateur players.
[/quote]

Amateurs playing in high level tournaments (USGA tournaments, most scratch state Am tournaments) are required to convert by 2014. Those not playing in tournaments that require conforming grooves are not required to convert until 2024. And I'm sure anyone who doesn't switch clubs until then probably doesn't care too much about whether they're technically breaking the rules or not.
[/quote]

Technically? Really?
Those amateurs grandfathered by the rules are not breaking any rules at all. The USGA states that their use is legal. Their game, their rules. Not yours or mine.
And I'm just a messenger, here. Nice to see that you appreciate it. Anyway, thanks for the date correction.

[3_Jack_Par]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1329331560' post='4291755']
[quote name='3 Jack Par' timestamp='1329331121' post='4291705']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1329330262' post='4291647']
[quote name='phil75070' timestamp='1329329053' post='4291531']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1329327289' post='4291353']
Oh, I forgot to add, Glen Nager also confirmed that the USGA is opposed to any bifurcation.
[/quote]

Then how do they explain how the groove rule is being implemented or does that somehow not fit the definition of bifurcation because ultimately (supposedly) even amateurs will have to comply in 2024?
[/quote]

There is only a window for amateur use. 2015? Not sure of the date, but when that window closes, amateurs, like professionals, will no longer be able to use non-conforming grooves. The reasons for extending the date for amateurs have to do with the $ cost of conforming, especially those who had recently purchased wedges with the offending grooves, the suddeness of the decision and the USGA's contention that square grooves were of no real advantage to the majority of amateur players.
[/quote]

Amateurs playing in high level tournaments (USGA tournaments, most scratch state Am tournaments) are required to convert by 2014. Those not playing in tournaments that require conforming grooves are not required to convert until 2024. And I'm sure anyone who doesn't switch clubs until then probably doesn't care too much about whether they're technically breaking the rules or not.
[/quote]

Technically? Really?
Those amateurs grandfathered by the rules are not breaking any rules at all. The USGA states that their use is legal. Their game, their rules. Not yours or mine.
And I'm just a messenger, here. Nice to see that you appreciate it. Anyway, thanks for the date correction.
[/quote]

I'm not saying they're breaking any rules now. They're not. I mean, someone who by 2024 is still playing clubs that become non-conforming that year, most likely isn't a super serious player who will really care that they're technically breaking the rules (in 2024). I play in a few Golf Association of Michigan and Michigan Publinx tournaments per year, and I haven't converted to conforming grooves in my irons or wedges yet, because I'm happy with my clubs, and I don't have to do it yet. I'm not cheating, either.

[idriveahonda]

I have a quick bit of info for some of you to ponder.

This is not in relation to the use of an "anchored" putting style (I personally use a belly putter, will not state my results).




How many of you have checked out the list of conforming DRIVERS on the USGA List? Maybe some like myself who actually have to follow ALL of the rules when it comes to competition.

Some of the drivers that people still rave about, are not allowed in REAL competition.


That is all. Maybe this will start a separate argument.

[gators78]

[quote name='idriveahonda' timestamp='1329333948' post='4291997']
I have a quick bit of info for some of you to ponder.

This is not in relation to the use of an "anchored" putting style (I personally use a belly putter, will not state my results).




How many of you have checked out the list of conforming DRIVERS on the USGA List? Maybe some like myself who actually have to follow ALL of the rules when it comes to competition.

Some of the drivers that people still rave about, are not allowed in REAL competition.


That is all. Maybe this will start a separate argument.
[/quote]

I don't remember anybody raving about illegal drivers...

Also, I love Royal New Kent (noticed from your location).

[idriveahonda]

[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1329334121' post='4292015']
[quote name='idriveahonda' timestamp='1329333948' post='4291997']
I have a quick bit of info for some of you to ponder.

This is not in relation to the use of an "anchored" putting style (I personally use a belly putter, will not state my results).




How many of you have checked out the list of conforming DRIVERS on the USGA List? Maybe some like myself who actually have to follow ALL of the rules when it comes to competition.

Some of the drivers that people still rave about, are not allowed in REAL competition.


That is all. Maybe this will start a separate argument.
[/quote]

I don't remember anybody raving about illegal drivers...

Also, I love Royal New Kent (noticed from your location).
[/quote]

I know they didn't mention anything about drivers.

I'm just talking about rules in general. It's something that I have noticed on here. It's like an OG Miken Freak, OG Easton Flex/Extended in softball...there is that one model that everyone hypes because it is so long/forgiving/perfect. Yet, most of them are illegal.

I was bringing up the fact that probably a GOOD majority of those opposed to the anchoring of the belly putter, are playing illegal drivers per the CC rules.



RNK is a nice course, especially since it's free. There are a ton of nice courses around the area, my favorite being Kinloch in Glen Allen (Top Top Top Golf Course in the nation...but like some of the highest earning members of any club).

[3_Jack_Par]

[quote name='idriveahonda' timestamp='1329334639' post='4292075']
.there is that one model that everyone hypes because it is so long/forgiving/perfect. Yet, most of them are illegal.

I was bringing up the fact that probably a GOOD majority of those opposed to the anchoring of the belly putter, are playing illegal drivers per the CC rules.
[/quote]

Why not just say which one you're talking about? The conforming driver list is over 1000 pages. I checked some of the usual uspects (Adams 9015, TM R7 425 TP, Cobra L4V, etc), and those are all fine. I find it hard to believe that more than a handful of people on WRX are using non-conforming drivers.

[gators78]

[quote name='3 Jack Par' timestamp='1329336095' post='4292253']
[quote name='idriveahonda' timestamp='1329334639' post='4292075']
.there is that one model that everyone hypes because it is so long/forgiving/perfect. Yet, most of them are illegal.

I was bringing up the fact that probably a GOOD majority of those opposed to the anchoring of the belly putter, are playing illegal drivers per the CC rules.
[/quote]

Why not just say which one you're talking about? The conforming driver list is over 1000 pages. I checked some of the usual uspects (Adams 9015, TM R7 425 TP, Cobra L4V, etc), and those are all fine. I find it hard to believe that more than a handful of people on WRX are using non-conforming drivers.
[/quote]

Sorry I'm with 3JP on this one, I'm not sure what driver you're talking about that a 'good majority' are using.

[idriveahonda]

That was in regards to a lot of the old R series TaylorMades (510TP especially).

It was a broad statement. It's just funny that some of the stuff people say has no warrant.

My information regarding "GOOD" drivers was outdated, but still applies up-to just a couple years ago.