"I AM A GOOD BALL STRIKER"

[divotbeltran]

[quote name='GooseHook' timestamp='1335185942' post='4772668']
I used to be a good ball striker, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
[/quote]

Damn, beat me to it.

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

The people saying that you have to be a scratch or + golfer in order to be a good ballstriker are flat out delusional at best. Ball striker does NOT equal short game. In my humble opinion, ball striking comes down to a person's play up until the green. A good ball striker can be a 5 handicap. My dad is a perfect example. My dad rarely misses shots off target, but he does not hit all that many greens. Why, you ask? It is because he does not have a lot of length. His driver goes about 230-240, and he hits hybrids, woods, and mid irons into most greens at our course. His drives are rarely out of the fairway. He is a 6 handicap, mainly because he is an average putter, and because he has to hit long clubs into the greens.

Anybody can put in the two hours every other week to develop a good short game. A good ball striker finds a way to keep the ball in play on days when he does not have a swing, the wind is howling, etc. There is much more to ball striking than the # of greens you hit.

[ram01002]

[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1335205064' post='4774498']
The people saying that you have to be a scratch or + golfer in order to be a good ballstriker are flat out delusional at best. Ball striker does NOT equal short game. In my humble opinion, ball striking comes down to a person's play up until the green. A good ball striker can be a 5 handicap. My dad is a perfect example. My dad rarely misses shots off target, but he does not hit all that many greens. Why, you ask? It is because he does not have a lot of length. His driver goes about 230-240, and he hits hybrids, woods, and mid irons into most greens at our course. His drives are rarely out of the fairway. He is a 6 handicap, mainly because he is an average putter, and because he has to hit long clubs into the greens.

Anybody can put in the two hours every other week to develop a good short game. A good ball striker finds a way to keep the ball in play on days when he does not have a swing, the wind is howling, etc. There is much more to ball striking than the # of greens you hit.
[/quote]

Its a tough argument, and we're probably splitting hairs; but I would argue that a person driving the ball 230 yards is not a good ballstriker. Age or physical deficiencies are certainly factors (through not fault of their own). He might be a good ballstriker for his age . . . but that is a different classification.

[Chief Illiniwek]

The problem is in the perspective.
To a normal person, your average fast car is a nice sports car. To an Indy driver, those sports cars aren't fast but his Indy car is. To a land speed record guy, those guys that drive cars the speed of sound in the desert, the Indy car isn't a fast car. Perspective.
Now back to golf. A lot of you are saying to be a good, not great, but good ball striker you have to at least be a plus capper. Good is better average. It isn't great, it isn't top .001% in the world, it's BETTER THAN AVERAGE. Do me a favor and go follow a random 4 some at any golf course. If they're total hackers I give you permission to try another group. You can probably watch two or three groups before watching someone hit 12 GIRS. One person out of twelve makes them better than average. Way better than average actually. It makes them GOOD at ball striking. Sheesh, some of you need a little perspective. There isn't a tour level player in every town in the world.

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='ram01002' timestamp='1335208644' post='4774908']
[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1335205064' post='4774498']
The people saying that you have to be a scratch or + golfer in order to be a good ballstriker are flat out delusional at best. Ball striker does NOT equal short game. In my humble opinion, ball striking comes down to a person's play up until the green. A good ball striker can be a 5 handicap. My dad is a perfect example. My dad rarely misses shots off target, but he does not hit all that many greens. Why, you ask? It is because he does not have a lot of length. His driver goes about 230-240, and he hits hybrids, woods, and mid irons into most greens at our course. His drives are rarely out of the fairway. He is a 6 handicap, mainly because he is an average putter, and because he has to hit long clubs into the greens.

Anybody can put in the two hours every other week to develop a good short game. A good ball striker finds a way to keep the ball in play on days when he does not have a swing, the wind is howling, etc. There is much more to ball striking than the # of greens you hit.
[/quote]

Its a tough argument, and we're probably splitting hairs; but I would argue that a person driving the ball 230 yards is not a good ballstriker. Age or physical deficiencies are certainly factors (through not fault of their own). He might be a good ballstriker for his age . . . but that is a different classification.
[/quote]

Again, I guess it all goes on how you define it. I don't want to rag on anyone's dad, but my guess is a truly good ballstriker would not be a 6 handicap, essentially regardless of fairly old age or some other physical limitation. I'm a 5.9 and can carry that hitting very few fairways, hitting only 8 or so greens a round, and having a lackluster short game. I'm hard pressed to believe a truly "good" ballstriker can't beat that. He sounds to me like the type of golfer that is steady and rarely mishits one. If that's how you define good ballstriking, then it sounds like he certainly meets it.

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1335209750' post='4775040']
[quote name='ram01002' timestamp='1335208644' post='4774908']
[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1335205064' post='4774498']
The people saying that you have to be a scratch or + golfer in order to be a good ballstriker are flat out delusional at best. Ball striker does NOT equal short game. In my humble opinion, ball striking comes down to a person's play up until the green. A good ball striker can be a 5 handicap. My dad is a perfect example. My dad rarely misses shots off target, but he does not hit all that many greens. Why, you ask? It is because he does not have a lot of length. His driver goes about 230-240, and he hits hybrids, woods, and mid irons into most greens at our course. His drives are rarely out of the fairway. He is a 6 handicap, mainly because he is an average putter, and because he has to hit long clubs into the greens.

Anybody can put in the two hours every other week to develop a good short game. A good ball striker finds a way to keep the ball in play on days when he does not have a swing, the wind is howling, etc. There is much more to ball striking than the # of greens you hit.
[/quote]

Its a tough argument, and we're probably splitting hairs; but I would argue that a person driving the ball 230 yards is not a good ballstriker. Age or physical deficiencies are certainly factors (through not fault of their own). He might be a good ballstriker for his age . . . but that is a different classification.
[/quote]

Again, I guess it all goes on how you define it. I don't want to rag on anyone's dad, but my guess is a truly good ballstriker would not be a 6 handicap, essentially regardless of fairly old age or some other physical limitation. I'm a 5.9 and can carry that hitting very few fairways, hitting only 8 or so greens a round, and having a lackluster short game. I'm hard pressed to believe a truly "good" ballstriker can't beat that. He sounds to me like the type of golfer that is steady and rarely mishits one. If that's how you define good ballstriking, then it sounds like he certainly meets it.
[/quote]

The course you play dictates a lot. My dad plays a course that has greens that are more difficult than probably any other in the world, save Augusta National. Like I said, he is an average at best putter. Agree to disagree I guess.

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='Chief Illiniwek' timestamp='1335209455' post='4775008']
The problem is in the perspective.
To a normal person, your average fast car is a nice sports car. To an Indy driver, those sports cars aren't fast but his Indy car is. To a land speed record guy, those guys that drive cars the speed of sound in the desert, the Indy car isn't a fast car. Perspective.
Now back to golf. A lot of you are saying to be a good, not great, but good ball striker you have to at least be a plus capper. Good is better average. It isn't great, it isn't top .001% in the world, it's BETTER THAN AVERAGE. Do me a favor and go follow a random 4 some at any golf course. If they're total hackers I give you permission to try another group. You can probably watch two or three groups before watching someone hit 12 GIRS. One person out of twelve makes them better than average. Way better than average actually. It makes them GOOD at ball striking. Sheesh, some of you need a little perspective. There isn't a tour level player in every town in the world.
[/quote]

Fair enough. All I know is that I live in a mid-sized town in the midwest, and the local golf assocation tournament leaderboards are littered with guys carrying plus, scratch, and low handicaps. I mean, you have to shoot in the mid/high 70s to even qualify for my local state AMs. That's what I classify as a "good" golfer. If you can't even qualify for your state AM, I find it hard to believe that you are a "good" golfer and/or ballstriker. Sure, your average groups of guys who would shoot 110 in tournaments think the guy who shoots 82 is a good ballstriker. But if that guy can't even sniff qualifying for a field that takes the 150 best golfers in his small state, how can you call him good?

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1335209961' post='4775062']
The course you play dictates a lot. My dad plays a course that has greens that are more difficult than probably any other in the world, save Augusta National. Like I said, he is an average at best putter. Agree to disagree I guess.
[/quote]

Again, fair enough. I'm from your area by the way, and I suspect if your dad lives close to you, I can probably guess which course he plays (or at least narrow it down to 3 or 4). There are some tough, long courses around here with huge wind always in play, so carrying a 6 cap is nothing to sneeze at.

EDIT: And by the way, if he plays PD, a 6 cap is pretty darn good! I know all courses are rated and sloped, but they ain't all equal.

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1335210129' post='4775096']
[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1335209961' post='4775062']
The course you play dictates a lot. My dad plays a course that has greens that are more difficult than probably any other in the world, save Augusta National. Like I said, he is an average at best putter. Agree to disagree I guess.
[/quote]

Again, fair enough. I'm from your area by the way, and I suspect if your dad lives close to you, I can probably guess which course he plays (or at least narrow it down to 3 or 4). There are some tough, long courses around here with huge wind always in play, so carrying a 6 cap is nothing to sneeze at.

EDIT: And by the way, if he plays PD, a 6 cap is pretty darn good! I know all courses are rated and sloped, but they ain't all equal.
[/quote]

We are members at Prairie Dunes. His game has diminished with age a bit, but he is a better ball striker than me, and I am above average. By the transitive property, I consider him a good ball striker.

[Chief Illiniwek]

Not attacking you, but I feel like you don't understand what "good" means. You have to be top 150 in your state, that I assume has at least 10,000 golfers, to be good? Those guys would be great. The top two or three would be amazing.
I looked up the definition to make sure I'm not off base. Good- superior to the average. So honestly if you took those 10,000 golfers and recorded their GIRS, the guy ranked 4,999 in GIRS would be the definition of a good ball striker. Now even I judge more harshly than that because that throws in a lot of recreational golfers. But I think the point serves to illustrate the ridiculously harsh criteria by which many of you would be willing to admit someone is a "good ball striker."

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='Chief Illiniwek' timestamp='1335210653' post='4775156']
Not attacking you, but I feel like you don't understand what "good" means. You have to be top 150 in your state, that I assume has at least 10,000 golfers, to be good? Those guys would be great. The top two or three would be amazing.
I looked up the definition to make sure I'm not off base. Good- superior to the average. So honestly if you took those 10,000 golfers and recorded their GIRS, the guy ranked 4,999 in GIRS would be the definition of a good ball striker. Now even I judge more harshly than that because that throws in a lot of recreational golfers. But I think the point serves to illustrate the ridiculously harsh criteria by which many of you would be willing to admit someone is a "good ball striker."
[/quote]


Yeah, I hear you. I understand that "good" and "great" are two very different things. I had kind of thought this post was using the word "good" to imply "great," and that's where my comments are coming from. If "good" is just "good," then, hell, I guess most single digits would be considered "good." Just take every time I said "good" in this thread and replace it with the word "great" or "excellent" and I will stand by all those posts.

[Chief Illiniwek]

Can't argue with that!

[xabia]

There is nothing I hate more on this site than the people that claim they are great ball-strikers and need blades because they give them more-confidence "to work the ball", However they still shoot in the 90's due to some mysterious ailment!

 

Here is a tip: It is most likely related to poor ball-striking

[andef]

Just curious, do you consider a good ball-striker a guy who hits most of his iron shots flush, or a guy who on top of that hits a lot of greens?

I think there's an easy way to judge whether you're a good ball striker. I'm currently looking at my stroke averages per hole and I can see that I have a poor average on:
Par 3s longer than 180 yards
Par 4s longer than 400 yards
With my mediocre driving distance (250-260 yards on solid strikes) and decent accuracy (60%), I can easily tell that my weakness are the mid-long irons, which is what makes me a "poor" ball-striker.

If you're honest with yourself and can make a similar, simple analysis like the one I just made, you can easily judge the quality of your ball-striking.

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='andef' timestamp='1335213372' post='4775528']
Just curious, do you consider a good ball-striker a guy who hits most of his iron shots flush, or a guy who on top of that hits a lot of greens?

I think there's an easy way to judge whether you're a good ball striker. I'm currently looking at my stroke averages per hole and I can see that I have a poor average on:
Par 3s longer than 180 yards
Par 4s longer than 400 yards
With my mediocre driving distance (250-260 yards on solid strikes) and decent accuracy (60%), I can easily tell that my weakness are the mid-long irons, which is what makes me a "poor" ball-striker.

If you're honest with yourself and can make a similar, simple analysis like the one I just made, you can easily judge the quality of your ball-striking.
[/quote]

I think the answer to your question lies in the posts in this thread. People differ in what they consider good ballstriking (or "great" - see above). To some, it equals making consistent contact, regardless of whether that results in more fairways, more greens, or reduced scores. To others, good means "great" and implies a true competency over controlling where the ball is headed with a real ability to move and/or flight it as needed. To others still, it's somewhere between there. I guess the important thing is using that information to improve your own game however you see fit. And of course the next most important thing is not being a 20 handicap who claims that you have good ballstriking and that you need blades, but you just can't putt. I think we all agree on that one.

[andef]

[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1335213905' post='4775604']
[quote name='andef' timestamp='1335213372' post='4775528']
Just curious, do you consider a good ball-striker a guy who hits most of his iron shots flush, or a guy who on top of that hits a lot of greens?

I think there's an easy way to judge whether you're a good ball striker. I'm currently looking at my stroke averages per hole and I can see that I have a poor average on:
Par 3s longer than 180 yards
Par 4s longer than 400 yards
With my mediocre driving distance (250-260 yards on solid strikes) and decent accuracy (60%), I can easily tell that my weakness are the mid-long irons, which is what makes me a "poor" ball-striker.

If you're honest with yourself and can make a similar, simple analysis like the one I just made, you can easily judge the quality of your ball-striking.
[/quote]

I think the answer to your question lies in the posts in this thread. People differ in what they consider good ballstriking (or "great" - see above). To some, it equals making consistent contact, regardless of whether that results in more fairways, more greens, or reduced scores. To others, good means "great" and implies a true competency over controlling where the ball is headed with a real ability to move and/or flight it as needed. To others still, it's somewhere between there. I guess the important thing is using that information to improve your own game however you see fit. And of course the next most important thing is not being a 20 handicap who claims that you have good ballstriking and that you need blades, but you just can't putt. I think we all agree on that one.
[/quote]


I agree completely with your post. I could hypothetically consider flushing almost every iron shot to be good ball-strking, but in your eyes that same term could apply to hitting it solid as well as accurate. That was exactly the point I was trying to get across, as good ball-striking is seen differently by almost every golfer. It also depends on your handicap level. A 20 handicapper should consider himself a good ball-striker if he hits 6 GIR as that's much higher than the average for golfers of his level. On the other hand, a 5 handicapper will often struggle to break 80 if he only hits 6 GIR.
I just wanted to see what the OP's "definition" of solid ball striking is, that's all.
Regarding your last point, no doubt about it. Even if a guy is a horrible putter, he won't average more than 40 putts per round instead of the scratch golfer's 30, so where does he lose the other 10-15 strokes?

[dlygrisse]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1335146787' post='4770962']
We see from most threads that things like driver distance or guys playing blades gets the most acclaim. Start a WITB with scratch blades and you are guaranteed 100 comments saying "those are beauties, they are so pure". Start a thread saying you can hit it 300yds and you will have 5000 views and countless people questioning you on it because NO ONE likes people who can hit it further then them. Short game threads? Crickets i tell you....

People are more comfortable saying their short game sucks because they feel they'll be judged less harshly then if they can't hit it far of hit blades.

Can't hit it far, you are a wuss. Need big fat forgiving irons? Yeah so does my [i]wife....[/i]
[i]
[/i]
But a poor short game goes over OK. So there you have it
[/quote]

I am a horrible ball striker but have a pretty damn good short game, and I can also putt better than most....there...I said it.

[cardoustie]

In all honesty I fall into your definitions and claim all of the first 3 points (at least last year). Importantly, I define "good" as hitting the majority of shots solidly and on a nice trajectory that bores thru the wind

Index was 1.9 - 3.9 last year with rounds running a wide margin .... 69-85 or so. Last year I had the putting twitches / flinches. I also am not a good pitcher of the ball ie 15-40 yards. And I know quite a few other lower cappers with the same issues ... putting and chipping yips. Nerves can kill you after you cross 40

I am attacking my weaknesses.
New hybrid to fix the 210-230 weakness. DONE
Long putter has made me a new man .. new nickname is "steady stroke" and putting is fun when you don't twitch. Just took me a while to face the problem head on

Now if someone could just help me on the little soft shots .... note I am note talking about blasting out of sand, or flops (both harder swings) or chipping greenside (different action) .. those 3 are in my arsenal

Just saying there are good ball strikers that can be awful greenside etc

[northgolf]

So, what type of a ball striker is a guy who shoots 79 on 6900 yard 139 slope par 71 course with 39 putts?

[ezpz]

[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1335220551' post='4776272']
So, what type of a ball striker is a guy who shoots 79 on 6900 yard 139 slope par 71 course with 39 putts?
[/quote]

That would depend on how often he shoots a score like that with too many putts you cant say anything based on 1 round although people like their best ball striking rounds to be their average and their longest hits to be their normal strikes but unfortunately it doesnt work like that. I find it difficult to believe that people actually hit ~14 greens regularly and still play off like a 10 hcp and if they actually do they might want to spend 10 minutes a week on their putting game ....

[Deadpool_25]

What's your definition of "good ballstriker?"

I hit 17 greens and shot 3 over. No birdies, didn't get up and down on missed green, and 3-putted twice . I'd say that qualifies as "good ballstriking, but..."

Not that that's normal for me. Especially lately. Been hitting around 50% of greens .

...so either way...I know I'm not a good ballstriker right now.

[mantan]

I think the challenge is 'good ballstriker' means different things based on a player's skill level.

When someone is a beginning golfer, anybody who can hit the ball consistently with good distance and direction is a 'good ball striker'.

When somebody becomes a mid-handicap anybody who hits a good amount of greens, can work the ball a little with good distance is often considered a 'good ball striker'

When someone is single digit, they have much higher expectations and consider a good ballstriker someone who truly can control their ball flight on command and always hit the center of the clubface.

(That's why you often hear mid-caps considering 'player irons' refer to themselves as 'good ballstrikers' while the same number of 5-9 handicaps will talk about scoring well despite not being a good ballstriker...different expectations.)

That goes all the way to the pro level. Every PGA player is miles better than a scratch golfer. Yet even at that level, they will discern who is a 'good ballstriker on tour' based on even higher criteria.

[Deadpool_25]

[quote name='mantan' timestamp='1335230916' post='4777582']
I think the challenge is 'good ballstriker' means different things based on a player's skill level.

When someone is a beginning golfer, anybody who can hit the ball consistently with good distance and direction is a 'good ball striker'.

When somebody becomes a mid-handicap anybody who hits a good amount of greens, can work the ball a little with good distance is often considered a 'good ball striker'

When someone is single digit, they have much higher expectations and consider a good ballstriker someone who truly can control their ball flight on command and always hit the center of the clubface.

(That's why you often hear mid-caps considering 'player irons' refer to themselves as 'good ballstrikers' while the same number of 5-9 handicaps will talk about scoring well despite not being a good ballstriker...different expectations.)

That goes all the way to the pro level. Every PGA player is miles better than a scratch golfer. Yet even at that level, they will discern who is a 'good ballstriker on tour' based on even higher criteria.
[/quote]

Yeah. That.

[LUMA]

Only time I would assume you are a "good ball striker" is when you hit every club in the exact same spot the size of a quarter, every single time.

Now according to my personal game, I would say I am a "good player" but my ball striking is inconsistent. I would not call myself a good "ball striker". I am working on that. With my swing change it has been tough trying to get to that comfort zone where I can draw, fade, high, low shots but hit them in the same spot on the club each time. I may get the shot pulled off but it might be a little outside, inside, high or low on the face. Just because I got that 7i shot within feet of the pin doesnt mean I struck it well or I am a good "ball striker". I think the same goes for 'bad players but good ball strikers". I have met guys who hit thier shots out the same spot almost every time but they have poor distance and aiming control.

I dont think most golfers have any idea what the hell they are actually talking about or saying.

Being a good golfer does not mean you are a good ball striker and visa versa. I know a few guys who hit all over the dam course and end up shooting 78.

But here we go again with technicalities. What a game this is..

[MelloYello]

[b]15 Handicap[/b] - A scratch player who's a little inaccurate off the tee, who's approaches aren't as good as they 'know' they can be, who's short game just lacks practice reps and who's putting is woefully dulled by a iron-oriented practice schedule that simply hasn't gotten around to it yet.

[b]10 Handicap[/b] - A scratch player with all the same issues above but who lives up to expectation with birdies 2 or 3 times a round.

[b]5 Handicap [/b] - A scratch player who simply isn't sinking as many putts as they should or who doesn't get a chance to play and practice like they'd want due to work and a poorly hidden online forum addiction.


"Ball-striking" is something that is loosely defined by young golfers today. Some feel that it's results oriented while others feel like it's purely your ability to hit the sweet spot repeatedly regardless of face angle(s).


You see, it's all in perspective. I'm very guilty of it myself but I see it. I stand over an iron shot thinking trajectory, shot shape and all the rest and while I'm no Tiger Woods I expect myself to produce the exact shot on command as if I weren't a 8-10 handicap. The fact is while I do produce the shot sometimes, I'm more frustrated than I probably should be and it inevitably leads towards trying to 'hide' my bad shots from both my ego and my fellow golfers. Generally, I would say I am [i][u]not[/u][/i] a good ball-striker in that I often miss the sweet spot but I generally get the overall [u][i]shape[/i][/u] that I want but not always the [i][u]distance[/u][/i].

Predictable.

Part of not saying silly things is remembering where you lie in the handicap range and knowing that being a low-mid handicapper isn't a bad thing, especially when there's potential.

I'm 26, in good health, have been playing for about 3 years, can drive it 285 pretty easily, can make the ball go in different directions (usually ) and who's short game is quickly coming along. While I'm not the scratch player I'd like to be I have plenty of potential for a guy who has age on his side, works full-time and still has to spend a good bit of money to practice and play...and hence doesn't get the reps of a 'member' or 'pro.'

[sonofagunn]

Seems like most people's definition of "good ballstrIker" means "hits more good iron shots than I do".

It's all relative. A 20 handicap can consider someone a good ball striker that a scratch golfer would not.

[Chief Illiniwek]

[quote name='sonofagunn' timestamp='1335274272' post='4779878']
Seems like most people's definition of "good ballstrIker" means "hits more good iron shots than I do".

It's all relative. A 20 handicap can consider someone a good ball striker that a scratch golfer would not.
[/quote]

This is spot on, and why I think so many are off base when getting frustrated at the mid cappers who call themselves good ball strikers. By so many of yours' logic Luke Donald would say that no one in the world is a good iron player.

If someone says they're good that means they are superior to average. And average really isn't that great, so cut them some slack. Now if someone claims they are a GREAT ball striker with a 10 cap, then we all could be justified in questioning that.

[Benjamin Ehinger]

It is like a woman, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Besides it is golfers you are talking about and most always have an excuse that has nothing to do with them.

Benjamin Ehinger

[MadGolfer76]

If someone gives me two more +1's in this thread, my WRX rep will go over 200.


Just saying...

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1335298576' post='4782374']
If someone gives me two more +1's in this thread, my WRX rep will go over 200.


Just saying...
[/quote]

I wish I could give you negative rep for the shameless plug.