Taylormade R1 Graphics

[jwfgolfpro]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1357825420' post='6202823']
[quote name='MJP22' timestamp='1357824765' post='6202775']
I have to agree that my initial impression was that the graphice were obnoxious and for marketing only, but the more I look at pictires I can see the purpose and possible benfit of them. One of the biggest faults of amateur golfers is poor alignment. If something this simple can help them the R1 could be a trend setter.
[/quote]


[size=4]The problem I have with your statement is that every time someone here posts about how much they hate the graphics, and if we are being honest it has been an overwhelming majority, the line we hear is...."You don't even notice the graphics, you don't even see them."[/size]
[size=4]So that worked to pacify the rubes for some time, but now I keep hearing not only do you see them, but they are essential to the "technology" introduced this year. You can't have it both ways, either a person does notice them and they are meant to be noticed, or someone doesn't. It's one or the other.[/size]

[size=4]As I have tried repeatedly to get a definitive answer on how big a role they play, the answer is always predicated on what slant the query is being perceived to come from. If the graphics are noticeable and they are meant to be noticed every time you set up and a person does hate them, it's certainly a legitimate reason to have contention with this driver.[/size]
[/quote]

Dark,

Nick Faldo was one of the first (maybe first) to see the graphics (per story I heard) and this is what he told TMAG.

Back in his prime when he got equipment he wanted the following:

Grip upside down no logo could be seen.
No shaft band.
No screen print on shaft. Would take steel wool and acetone and take it off.
Very much a traditionalist when it came to the looks of his equipment.
Very particular about these items.....I am sure there are more but to shorten the story......

He saw the R1 and loved it...said after looking at a few times that he did not even see the graphics but still thought it was very cool. He said "as long as you dont mess with the topline where the crown meets the face you are fine"

I know you have heard it a gazillion times but I thought the same thing.......Oh god how ugly are the graphics. Looked at them in person for about 10 minutes yesterday and its a non issue. Actually like the look now. That's my personal opinion.

JWF

[jwfgolfpro]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1357826874' post='6202887']
[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1357826249' post='6202857']
So what would you like them to do? You seem to have a strong opinion and are entitled to that. Taylormade OWNS white in the golfing market. They had to come up with a new way to distinguish and gain more exposure from the past models. They did that. It looks good and performs good enough to win in the first event of the year on Tour.
[/quote]

[size=4][color=#222222]Well I like them to be definitive, as well as the men that post here. if you see the graphics, and they are supposed to be seen that is absolutely fine. Admit that, go with it, and deal with the criticisms as they come in. The problem is when most people here said the graphics were to awful to comprehend putting into play the response that keep coming back was....You don't see them so don't worry about it. People here being smarter than the average consumer pointed out that the ONLY purpose of the graphics was to make the diver more noticeable on TV and the consumer was expected to endure this for the sake of their marketing. hence the new spin of how much these graphics help with alignment. [/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#222222]Also, not to correct you but the R1 has not won a golf tournament and probably never will. The driver DJ was using is a R1 v2. Different head, glued shaft, one loft. The shaft by the way isn't even available in the TP option so the only thing about the driver he used that a consumer would be able to buy is the grip. Saying that a R1 won a tournament this week is like saying a Ford Taurus won the Nascar race last week because a car painted to look like one finished first. They are completely different drivers. Curious how the R1, a driver for "everyone" isn't good enough for their tour pros to play. [/color][/size]
[/quote]

Dark,

TMAG was very straight forward at our meeting that they designed the graphics to make it stand apart. It also has alignment features but the way I understood it was they wanted it to be DIFFERENT.

JWF

[Kadin 25]

[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1357826014' post='6202845']
[quote name='jwfgolfpro' timestamp='1357825927' post='6202837']
[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1357824008' post='6202723']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1357823794' post='6202709']
[quote name='jwfgolfpro' timestamp='1357818920' post='6202511']
At the 2012 John Deere event the TMAG PGA Tour Players where shown a bunch of different graphics. From the very aggressive to the very passive. The PGA Tour staff unanimously picked the most aggressive graphics that are being used on the new R1.

Very interesting.......

JWF

Edit for spelling
[/quote]How did you come by this information? I only ask because I asked the VP of Tmag how they came up with the graphics and this is not what I was told.
[/quote]

I would imagine probably the same place I did too. JW were you just in Des Moines?
[/quote]

TMAG Seminar in Wisconsin with Sean Toulan(VP), Dr Beniot Vincent (Chief Technical Officer) and
Dean Snell (Desinged original PRO V )

They were very informative and forthcoming.

JWF
[/quote]

I was at the one in Des Moines. The videos and information were priceless.
[/quote]That's very interesting....by chance are the videis online? Were you able to see the other choices they had for graphics?

[TheDarkOne]

[quote name='jwfgolfpro' timestamp='1357826906' post='6202889']
[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1357825420' post='6202823']
[quote name='MJP22' timestamp='1357824765' post='6202775']
I have to agree that my initial impression was that the graphice were obnoxious and for marketing only, but the more I look at pictires I can see the purpose and possible benfit of them. One of the biggest faults of amateur golfers is poor alignment. If something this simple can help them the R1 could be a trend setter.
[/quote]


[size=4]The problem I have with your statement is that every time someone here posts about how much they hate the graphics, and if we are being honest it has been an overwhelming majority, the line we hear is...."You don't even notice the graphics, you don't even see them."[/size]
[size=4]So that worked to pacify the rubes for some time, but now I keep hearing not only do you see them, but they are essential to the "technology" introduced this year. You can't have it both ways, either a person does notice them and they are meant to be noticed, or someone doesn't. It's one or the other.[/size]

[size=4]As I have tried repeatedly to get a definitive answer on how big a role they play, the answer is always predicated on what slant the query is being perceived to come from. If the graphics are noticeable and they are meant to be noticed every time you set up and a person does hate them, it's certainly a legitimate reason to have contention with this driver.[/size]
[/quote]

Dark,

Nick Faldo was one of the first (maybe first) to see the graphics (per story I heard) and this is what he told TMAG.

Back in his prime when he got equipment he wanted the following:

Grip upside down no logo could be seen.
No shaft band.
No screen print on shaft. Would take steel wool and acetone and take it off.
Very much a traditionalist when it came to the looks of his equipment.
Very particular about these items.....I am sure there are more but to shorten the story......

He saw the R1 and loved it...said after looking at a few times that he did not even see the graphics but still thought it was very cool. He said "as long as you dont mess with the topline where the crown meets the face you are fine"

I know you have heard it a gazillion times but I thought the same thing.......Oh god how ugly are the graphics. Looked at them in person for about 10 minutes yesterday and its a non issue. Actually like the look now. That's my personal opinion.

JWF
[/quote]


[size=4]And I respect that 100% If you like them cool. Personally I like the white driver, love the new red driver from Nike, and like the orange ones from Cobra.[/size]
[size=4]I would never attack someone for liking the graphics, the aggravation is people who keep trying to change their purpose to fit a pro TM narrative.[/size]
[size=4]We can all pretty much agree that if you hate the graphics, it is going to be a factor to consider when buying the driver. You will notice them EVERYTIME you set up the driver if you are using it as intended. If you don't notice it then you aren't taking advantage of the ground breaking technology TM has given the public via the graphics and what would be the point of buying the driver?[/size]

[size=4]Liked the Faldo story. Who is he sponsored by now? [/size]

[whatshannenin]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1357826874' post='6202887']
[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1357826249' post='6202857']
So what would you like them to do? You seem to have a strong opinion and are entitled to that. Taylormade OWNS white in the golfing market. They had to come up with a new way to distinguish and gain more exposure from the past models. They did that. It looks good and performs good enough to win in the first event of the year on Tour.
[/quote]

Well I like them to be definitive, as well as the men that post here. if you see the graphics, and they are supposed to be seen that is absolutely fine. Admit that, go with it, and deal with the criticisms as they come in. The problem is when most people here said the graphics were to awful to comprehend putting into play the response that keep coming back was....You don't see them so don't worry about it. People here being smarter than the average consumer pointed out that the ONLY purpose of the graphics was to make the diver more noticeable on TV and the consumer was expected to endure this for the sake of their marketing. hence the new spin of how much these graphics help with alignment.

Also, not to correct you but [b]the R1 has not won a golf tournament and probably never will.[/b] The driver DJ was using is a R1 v2. Different head, glued shaft, one loft. The shaft by the way isn't even available in the TP option so the only thing about the driver he used that a consumer would be able to buy is the grip. Saying that a R1 won a tournament this week is like saying a Ford Taurus won the Nascar race last week because a car painted to look like one finished first. They are completely different drivers. Curious how the R1, a driver for "everyone" isn't good enough for their tour pros to play.
[/quote]

You sir are . Whether you like it or not, Taylormade is going to go Rocketballz deep in the market this year. Can any other drivers or wood line up measure up sales wise? Time will tell.

[scratchswinger]

Since TMAG is only offering "One Loft" I think it would have cool to offer a few different options for the crown. Something more R11ish and another.

[jwfgolfpro]

[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1357828022' post='6202993']
[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1357826014' post='6202845']
[quote name='jwfgolfpro' timestamp='1357825927' post='6202837']
[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1357824008' post='6202723']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1357823794' post='6202709']
[quote name='jwfgolfpro' timestamp='1357818920' post='6202511']
At the 2012 John Deere event the TMAG PGA Tour Players where shown a bunch of different graphics. From the very aggressive to the very passive. The PGA Tour staff unanimously picked the most aggressive graphics that are being used on the new R1.

Very interesting.......

JWF

Edit for spelling
[/quote]How did you come by this information? I only ask because I asked the VP of Tmag how they came up with the graphics and this is not what I was told.
[/quote]

I would imagine probably the same place I did too. JW were you just in Des Moines?
[/quote]

TMAG Seminar in Wisconsin with Sean Toulan(VP), Dr Beniot Vincent (Chief Technical Officer) and
Dean Snell (Desinged original PRO V )

They were very informative and forthcoming.

JWF
[/quote]

I was at the one in Des Moines. The videos and information were priceless.
[/quote]That's very interesting....by chance are the videis online? Were you able to see the other choices they had for graphics?
[/quote]

Pretty sure the vids are not available yet. Probably just before the release of product.
Sean mentioned 6 different versions of graphics if I remember correctly. I am sure there are other GOLFWRXers that were at the event so hopefully they will chime in.

Sean spoke very highly of all the guys on the trip. Said he had a blast.

JWF

[smackygolf]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1357821094' post='6202595']
If I were TM, I would create an excuse for the graphics too the way people are reacting to them.
"Hey, the tour Pros wanted it. It wasn't because our Marketing department said it would be better for TV we promise."

The amount of credibility that TM has left with consumers after this year will be interesting to gauge. I can't believe that people would be stupid enough to believe this.
[/quote]

Only one problem with your rant--it's true. I posted this same info long ago. And it was a tour friend who told me about it THE WEEK OF THE TOURNEY. This is the design the tour players liked. I can't believe you'd be stupid enough to keep posting this.

[smackygolf]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1357825420' post='6202823']
[quote name='MJP22' timestamp='1357824765' post='6202775']
I have to agree that my initial impression was that the graphice were obnoxious and for marketing only, but the more I look at pictires I can see the purpose and possible benfit of them. One of the biggest faults of amateur golfers is poor alignment. If something this simple can help them the R1 could be a trend setter.
[/quote]


[size=4]The problem I have with your statement is that every time someone here posts about how much they hate the graphics, and if we are being honest it has been an overwhelming majority, the line we hear is...."You don't even notice the graphics, you don't even see them."[/size]
[size=4]So that worked to pacify the rubes for some time, but now I keep hearing not only do you see them, but they are essential to the "technology" introduced this year. You can't have it both ways, either a person does notice them and they are meant to be noticed, or someone doesn't. It's one or the other.[/size]

[size=4]As I have tried repeatedly to get a definitive answer on how big a role they play, the answer is always predicated on what slant the query is being perceived to come from. If the graphics are noticeable and they are meant to be noticed every time you set up and a person does hate them, it's certainly a legitimate reason to have contention with this driver.[/size]
[/quote]

Enough with the "rubes" and "people are stupid" comments. You are a grown man riding the jock of a 24 year old. If anyone is a rube, and should be derided for their thoughts, it's you.

[Imp]

Why is this a different thread instead of in the multitude of existing ones?

[TheDarkOne]

[quote name='smackygolf' timestamp='1357829367' post='6203115']
[i]Post deleted[/i]
[/quote]


[size=4][color=#222222][color=#222222]So after saying you agree with my thoughts and they are true, you then say I should be derided for them??[/color][/color][/size]


[color=#222222][size=2][size=4][color=#222222]Here's a question for you my friend...after reading your thoughts about me, my thoughts, etc. etc. it occurred to me I can't ever remember you saying what you actually thought of the driver and if you would be playing one this season. Would you care to enlighten us on what your perception of the R1 is and if you plan on bagging one? [/color][/size][/size][/color]

[Kadin 25]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1357825420' post='6202823']
[quote name='MJP22' timestamp='1357824765' post='6202775']
I have to agree that my initial impression was that the graphice were obnoxious and for marketing only, but the more I look at pictires I can see the purpose and possible benfit of them. One of the biggest faults of amateur golfers is poor alignment. If something this simple can help them the R1 could be a trend setter.
[/quote]


[size=4]The problem I have with your statement is that every time someone here posts about how much they hate the graphics, and if we are being honest it has been an overwhelming majority, the line we hear is...."You don't even notice the graphics, you don't even see them."[/size]
[size=4]So that worked to pacify the rubes for some time, but now I keep hearing not only do you see them, but they are essential to the "technology" introduced this year. You can't have it both ways, either a person does notice them and they are meant to be noticed, or someone doesn't. It's one or the other.[/size]

[size=4]As I have tried repeatedly to get a definitive answer on how big a role they play, the answer is always predicated on what slant the query is being perceived to come from. If the graphics are noticeable and they are meant to be noticed every time you set up and a person does hate them, it's certainly a legitimate reason to have contention with this driver.[/size]
[/quote]I can field this one because I have stated you "don't notice them" ...When I looked the first images that popped up I said wow that is hideous and very busy. I like all figured this would distract you when at address.

Now when I had the chance to hit the R1 the fist thing I did was look right at the graphics and my first thought was "ok they are done in a matt finish" they are not as "loud" as the images I saw here on WRX. My guess is because of the flash from the camera. I then addressed a ball, backed off and re addressed the ball again. I turned to the guys and said "man you don't even notice the graphics".

Now with that said. ... The graphics are there, when you address the ball they are still there, they don't magically disappear...what I mean by "you don't even see them" I mean they don't distract you. They just fade away to a small blur if you are focused on the ball. Blur probably isn't a good word to use because that sounds distracting ...it's like looking down the iron sites of a weapon, if you are aiming right the back sight blurs and the front site should be crystal clear. So the back site doesn't disappear but they are not a factor when it comes to focusing on the front site. So the way I see it its the graphics are the back site and the ball is the front site. You should be focusing on the ball and if you do then the graphics don't even matter or come into play.

As far as an alignment aide, I did not notice it I was more focused on seeing if the graphics distract. I can see how they triangle shape could help. With that said I have a True Aim sticker on my drivers (I was selected to test them) So after I line up my shot, I no longer focus on the sticker. I beleive the same would go for the R1. If the graphics aer designed to help line up your shot, you will focus on them long enought to line up and then focus on the ball. The graphics will no longer be a factor.

I hope that clears up some of the confusion. I guess I should have stated it like that to begin with. But being a lazy typer and just trying to give a quick answer of "you dont' notcie them" can be misleading. I apologize to anyone that I mah have mislead with my statement. I think this explanation is pretty good and should help everyone to better understand what I meant.

See ya on the green....Kadin

And to give you and idea how busy my True Aim stickers look in comparison to the R1 here are two of my drivers. These in my opinion are way more bold than the R1 and after I line up, I don't even notice them.

[attachment=1483991:65082_108048519367067_1472769662_n.jpg]

[TheDarkOne]

Do you plan on not using the true aim stickers since the R1 already has this "techonology" on the crown?

[Kadin 25]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1357833624' post='6203463']
Do you plan on not using the true aim stickers since the R1 already has this "techonology" on the crown?
[/quote]Well the ones that tested the best for me are already on my Drivers so I don't have any more to use. I guess I need to see if the graphics "tirangle" help or not. I used to use the leading of the crown to line up my shots before using the stickers. But I would be willing to use the True Aim stickers I think they are pretty good,

[scratchswinger]

Now that we have peeled back the layers of this onion.
[list]
[*]The paint is only there to identify the driver on TV and help sell more drivers. It does not have any performance benefits.
[*]The "One Loft" Technology is a fail as the best players in the world are not using it. It's only there to help cut down on manufacturing costs and to help the OEM make more money.
[*]They tried to market and sell us a $300 shaft for an additional $500 naming it SUPER. It lasted in their webiste for about one day. They have since removed the SUPER offering and now you can get the $300 shaft for an additional $400 on the already increased price of the TP version.
[/list]
As a customer that works hard for their money, I am not going to say that they insulted their customers, but they are certainly making a very good attempt.

[Jonny8]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1357834514' post='6203577']
Now that we have peeled back the layers of this onion.[list]
[*]The paint is only there to identify the driver on TV and help sell more drivers. It does not have any performance benefits.
[*]The "One Loft" Technology is a fail as the best players in the world are not using it. It's only there to help cut down on manufacturing costs and to help the OEM make more money.
[*]They tried to market and sell us a $300 shaft for an additional $500 naming it SUPER. It lasted in their webiste for about one day. They have since removed the SUPER offering and now you can get the $300 shaft for an additional $400 on the already increased price of the TP version.
[/list]
As a customer that works hard for their money, I am not going to say that they insulted their customers, but they are certainly making a very good attempt.
[/quote]
sorry to burst your bubble, but two of your points are wrong:

1. as far as I can tell, the R1 V2 uses the same sleeve as the regular R1. Shouldn't this mean it is "One Loft" as well (10° as well being standard) ???
http://www.ebay.de/itm/140903053837?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648#ht_1571wt_1114

2. The R1 with the Oban White is still the same $ 899,- as before, but it is not called R1 Super TP anymore, what's actually a loss to the customer.

I don't know whether the upcharges for the different shafts are exaggerated, but they are what they are.

[Kadin 25]

[list]
[*]The paint is only there to identify the driver on TV and help sell more drivers. It does not have any performance benefits.[b] I think your only half right on this one....The paint is there to advertise on tv, but to say it has no performance benefits might be a little off my friend...if the Triangle shape helps players line up then wouldn't you say it DOES have benefits, but I am guessing that may be subjective to the fact that you either use it to line up or not.[/b]
[*]The "One Loft" Technology is a fail as the best players in the world are not using it. It's only there to help cut down on manufacturing costs and to help the OEM make more money. [b]I disagree with you on this one...It is not a fail to 99% of players that this is geared towards...to compare the "best players" in the world don't use it, If that was the case [i]just about [/i]every GI or SGI iron is a fail since the best players in the world for the most part don't use them. And if you can't give some supportive facts to who uses it and who doesn't and I mean all R1's in play than that statement doesn't hold water.[/b]
[*]They tried to market and sell us a $300 shaft for an additional $500 naming it SUPER. It lasted in their webiste for about one day. They have since removed the SUPER offering and now you can get the $300 shaft for an additional $400 on the already increased price of the TP version.[b] Now as far as the pricing of the up grades I agree with you...just doesn't make much sense to me but than again I didn't study it or try to figure it out. I know that I hit the new Oban shaft and really liked it. But I am not willing to pay $900 for it. I will probably go component on this one and buy the shaft at another time.[/b]
[/list]

[ufgatrs82]

Can't speak for others but my dislike for TMAG isn't a direct result of the graphics on the R1 driver. Its the entire package. Commercials, graphics, equipment claims, etc... I've never argued their equipment doesn't perform. In fact Im looking forward to trying the Rocketbladez tour. But they are experts in marketing and the creators of the hype machine. I dont blame them, its all about the money and a I get that. But I laugh when I see grown men with their face painted on a commercial, or ridiculous claims of yardage gains, or pros wearing hats with hearts on them etc... Do I like the graphics on the R1? no not really. Does it look better in person? yeah Ill give it that but still not a fan. But what bothers me more is TM will and is marketing it like its a new driver when TM guys have said numerous times that theres little diffrence in the R1 vs R11 other than the adjustability which is also in question. Nike on the other hand has a new design with benefit claims assicioted with it. Instead of just painting a VRS and claiming more adjustability and yardage gains to go with it. Now will the covert pan out and perform as claimed time will tell but theres substance behind the claims where I feel TM is alot of hot hair the majority of the time.

[whatshannenin]

Can't speak for others but my dislike for TMAG isn't a direct result of the graphics on the R1 driver. Its the entire package. Commercials, graphics, equipment claims, etc... I've never argued their equipment doesn't perform. In fact Im looking forward to trying the Rocketbladez tour. But they are experts in marketing and the creators of the hype machine. I dont blame them, its all about the money and a I get that. But I laugh when I see grown men with their face painted on a commercial, or ridiculous claims of yardage gains, or pros wearing hats with hearts on them etc... Do I like the graphics on the R1? no not really. Does it look better in person? yeah Ill give it that but still not a fan. But what bothers me more is TM will and is marketing it like its a new driver when TM guys have said numerous times that theres little diffrence in the R1 vs R11 other than the adjustability which is also in question. Nike on the other hand has a new design with benefit claims assicioted with it. Instead of just painting a VRS and claiming more adjustability and yardage gains to go with it. Now will the covert pan out and perform as claimed time will tell but theres substance behind the claims where I feel TM is alot of hot hair the majority of the time.

 

 

I just laugh when people seem to know more than OEM's, engineers and marketing departments of companies. They didn't just paint the driver and call it something else, but then again, there seems to be a WRX'rs behind a computer that know everything there is to know about golf clubs and what people want. These are the same people that said white was a terrible idea and then Taylormade went from 30% marketshare to 45% marketshare when going to the white. But obviously all the did was paint the R9 white and call it good.

 

[scratchswinger]

[color=#ff0000][b]DISCLAIMER: [/b][/color]I do not dislike TMAG, I have been playing a TMAG driver and it is one of the best drivers that I have ever owned.

One Loft: I know that I need an 8° +/- driver, I don't need a driver that is 10° and then opened 4° and then shut 3° to APPEAR slightly open at address. Just give me a driver that you give your staff that is 8° and .5° open. I don't like the fact that I have to manipulate all these other variables to make my club "appear" to be where I want it. Time will tell exactly what is being used on tour, but the early reports show that most staffers are using a smaller head that is set to their specific loft with the option to make minor adjustments to loft.

Paint: It's there to help sell drivers plain and simple. Yes to a very small minority it might help with alignment, but there are many other very discrete things that could have been done to aid with alignment. The paint is a swinging billboard!!! Don't get it twisted....

TMAG made some bold moves this year, from the over priced Super TP offering that they have seemed to admit was a mistake by removing it from their site, to trying to sell "One Loft" with "Alignment Paint" to the masses. It would be cool to see them go back to making quality drivers that customers can be proud of. I remember when the TP offering was cool and a badge of honor so to speak.

Do they even use the TP badge at this point?

[H.A. Kerr]

"Defending" your favorite club/manufacturer with sales figures is weird.

This is golf equipment, not Glengarry Glen Ross.

[TheMoneyShot]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1357839967' post='6204129']
[color=#ff0000][b]DISCLAIMER: [/b][/color]I do not dislike TMAG, I have been playing a TMAG driver and it is one of the best drivers that I have ever owned.

One Loft: I know that I need an 8° +/- driver, I don't need a driver that is 10° and then opened 4° and then shut 3° to APPEAR slightly open at address. Just give me a driver that you give your staff that is 8° and .5° open. I don't like the fact that I have to manipulate all these other variables to make my club "appear" to be where I want it. Time will tell exactly what is being used on tour, but the early reports show that most staffers are using a smaller head that is set to their specific loft with the option to make minor adjustments to loft.

Paint: It's there to help sell drivers plain and simple. Yes to a very small minority it might help with alignment, but there are many other very discrete things that could have been done to aid with alignment. The paint is a swinging billboard!!! Don't get it twisted....

TMAG made some bold moves this year, from the over priced Super TP offering that they have seemed to admit was a mistake by removing it from their site, to trying to sell "One Loft" with "Alignment Paint" to the masses. It would be cool to see them go back to making quality drivers that customers can be proud of. I remember when the TP offering was cool and a badge of honor so to speak.

Do they even use the TP badge at this point?
[/quote]

The R1 Super TP is still on the site, do a search. And the people at TM are saying that they are not going to use the TP flag logo any future products. That brings a year to my eye.

[whatshannenin]

[quote name='H.A. Kerr' timestamp='1357840311' post='6204173']
"Defending" your favorite club/manufacturer with sales figures is weird.

This is golf equipment, not Glengarry Glen Ross.
[/quote]

I actually don't have a Taylormade club in the bag. I just attended the sales meeting and think they are onto something. After conversations with high level employees, I like what they are doing from a sales standpoint. It's easy to sit and throw stones at the really successful. Check my posts, I am not a fanboy. I voice my opinion just like everyone else. All really successful brands in golf take risks and make wild marketing or club designs to gain a little edge on the competition.

[H.A. Kerr]

[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1357840754' post='6204233']
[quote name='H.A. Kerr' timestamp='1357840311' post='6204173']
"Defending" your favorite club/manufacturer with sales figures is weird.

This is golf equipment, not Glengarry Glen Ross.
[/quote]

I actually don't have a Taylormade club in the bag. I just attended the sales meeting and think they are onto something. After conversations with high level employees, I like what they are doing from a sales standpoint. It's easy to sit and throw stones at the really successful. Check my posts, I am not a fanboy. I voice my opinion just like everyone else. All really successful brands in golf take risks and make wild marketing or club designs to gain a little edge on the competition.
[/quote]

Absolutely. TM makes great equipment. They are incredibly successful, and not by accident. But doesn't mean everyone needs to think they're tasteful.

If you look up at ufgatr's post, it's a very well laid out personal opinion on why TM stuff doesn't do it for him. Not bashing product with no basis or throwing stones, just finds face paint and team uniforms and whatnot not to his taste.

And then ... the inevitable "But, but ... MARKETSHARE!!!"

The Honda Civic increased sales almost 44% percent for 2012, more than any other U.S. car. Does that make it the best car? No. It's the best car for certain buyers because of quality and features, not because a bunch of other people bought it too.

And coffee is for closers.

[whatshannenin]

[quote name='H.A. Kerr' timestamp='1357841487' post='6204307']
[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1357840754' post='6204233']
[quote name='H.A. Kerr' timestamp='1357840311' post='6204173']
"Defending" your favorite club/manufacturer with sales figures is weird.

This is golf equipment, not Glengarry Glen Ross.
[/quote]

I actually don't have a Taylormade club in the bag. I just attended the sales meeting and think they are onto something. After conversations with high level employees, I like what they are doing from a sales standpoint. It's easy to sit and throw stones at the really successful. Check my posts, I am not a fanboy. I voice my opinion just like everyone else. All really successful brands in golf take risks and make wild marketing or club designs to gain a little edge on the competition.
[/quote]

Absolutely. TM makes great equipment. They are incredibly successful, and not by accident. But doesn't mean everyone needs to think they're tasteful.

If you look up at ufgatr's post, it's a very well laid out personal opinion on why TM stuff doesn't do it for him. Not bashing product with no basis or throwing stones, just finds face paint and team uniforms and whatnot not to his taste.

And then ... the inevitable "But, but ... MARKETSHARE!!!"

The Honda Civic increased sales almost 44% percent for 2012, more than any other U.S. car. Does that make it the best car? No. It's the best car for certain buyers because of quality and features, not because a bunch of other people bought it too.

And coffee is for closers.
[/quote]

I used marketshare numbers to defend the stance that people criticized the white head in the beginning, but now it's not a big deal. I didn't say it was the best or the only driver to buy. I was just pointing out a trend. Flashy and performance driven stuff is trending now. These drivers offer performance and standout great against competitors, with the graphics. Look at Bubba's driver. Look at Ricky Fowler's driver. Look at the headcovers Scotty Cameron uses. Look at the clothes guys are wearing. It's all trending the same way. EVERYONE is doing it. Maybe 380 cc heads and minimalist looking irons and putters will come back, but right now, that's not happening.

[NickPhillips]

Am I the only person around that likes the way the R1 looks?

[hogans71]

[quote name='NickPhillips' timestamp='1357844110' post='6204623']
Am I the only person around that likes the way the R1 looks?
[/quote]

Yes.

I kid! Sort of...

[pegleg]

[quote name='NickPhillips' timestamp='1357844110' post='6204623']
Am I the only person around that likes the way the R1 looks?
[/quote]

No, but people who like the way it looks are just waiting to hit the thing. People who don't like it find it necessary to rant their vitriol over 45 pages on Golfwrx, to make sure we all know how TM are insulting the intelligence of their customers in their role as Satan incarnate. If I were a psychologist, I might suggest they're unhappy with their jobs or wives or something.

That said, I went to pre-order an R1, but changed my mind when I learned you have to sacrifice a chicken to do it.

[whatshannenin]

[quote name='pegleg' timestamp='1357846954' post='6204917']
[quote name='NickPhillips' timestamp='1357844110' post='6204623']
Am I the only person around that likes the way the R1 looks?
[/quote]

No, but people who like the way it looks are just waiting to hit the thing. People who don't like it find it necessary to rant their vitriol over 45 pages on Golfwrx, to make sure we all know how TM are insulting the intelligence of their customers in their role as Satan incarnate. If I were a psychologist, I might suggest they're unhappy with their jobs or wives or something.

That said, I went to pre-order an R1, but changed my mind when I learned you have to sacrifice a chicken to do it.
[/quote]

Well played. I'm surprised no one caught my comment above.....TM could run with it as a slogan in fact

[WVP]

[quote name='NickPhillips' timestamp='1357844110' post='6204623']
Am I the only person around that likes the way the R1 looks?
[/quote]

I wasn't crazy about it when the pics were leaked but honestly I like the color scheme. Way better than the RBZ colors and design. And I hated the white so much that "less white" is actually an improvement!

However knowing that the main reason for them is to make the driver stand out (even more), well I don't really want to pay for that. That's just me.