New PING S-series Iron / S55 / S-55(merged)

[kronik]

A couple things I've read that I definitely agree with ... A bigger muscle and keep it cast.

[tsecor]

why would you want a cast club over forged? especially if the price is 1000 or less?

[kronik]

[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372467297' post='7345018']
why would you want a cast club over forged? especially if the price is 1000 or less?
[/quote]
Because under $1,000 is entirely speculative and made up figure at this point, and I happen to like the fact that there is still a durable, awesome cast choice for a true player's irons. There's a ridiculous amount of forged offerings out there if you want that and feel the need. The players obviously like it, if it's good enough for all the tour wins they're getting with the s56, it's good enough for me. Besides, the S56 feel just as smooth and consistent as many forged offerings. For the record, I am currently gaming forged irons.

[tsecor]

that's cool, I was just curious. With all the forged models on the market that cost the same as cast, I just wonder why cast is a preference. Ping can surely make the s55's in a nice soft forged material and knock this out of the park......their clubs are awesome, so whatever they make will be great. I loved the feel of my Ansers though

[kronik]

[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372468511' post='7345144']
that's cool, I was just curious. With all the forged models on the market that cost the same as cast, I just wonder why cast is a preference. Ping can surely make the s55's in a nice soft forged material and knock this out of the park......their clubs are awesome, so whatever they make will be great. I loved the feel of my Ansers though
[/quote]

There are actually still people out there who prefer cast to forged for the durability and feel aspects it provides and I like the fact that Ping has pretty much cornered this portion of the market interested in player's club.

[Hstead]

The Ping Rep at our Demo day last week told me there is a new club coming but he didn't know if it would be released this fall or the spring. He was leaning toward the spring. I couldn't believe he even said that since I was getting ready to order a set. He didn't hesitate though.

[bjive]

I find cast to be more consistent, distance & trajectory wise - for me. I came from Mizuno blades, which I found a little inconsistent in both distance & trajectory. Had the same experience with AP2's. IMHO.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='bjive' timestamp='1372475617' post='7345838']
I find cast to be more consistent, distance & trajectory wise - for me. I came from Mizuno blades, which I found a little inconsistent in both distance & trajectory. Had the same experience with AP2's. IMHO.
[/quote]

Oh ohhhhhhhh.

NOW ya gone and done it,,,,,,,, [size=4] [/size][size=4] [/size]

[Swoosh-Thud]

[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372467297' post='7345018']
why would you want a cast club over forged? especially if the price is 1000 or less?
[/quote]

Design.

I only play blades (Yonex, Tour Stage, Yururi, Miura) so I prefer forged. However, if you hit the sweet spot it doesn't matter how the club was made. I've been very tempted to get a set of 56s great looking clubs- can't wait to see the 55s.

[station2station]

[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372467297' post='7345018']
why would you want a cast club over forged? especially if the price is 1000 or less?
[/quote]

Blondes vs. redheads.

You've attached your bias to the selections.

[Dill Pickleson]

I'm not gonna lie, I actually hope the 55's are ugly because the 56's work great and I should use them this year and next. It'll be tough if they have the dark finish and everybody gets them, I'll be jealous.

[bjive]

[quote name='Naughty Mazz' timestamp='1372535313' post='7350672']
I'm not gonna lie, I actually hope the 55's are ugly because the 56's work great and I should use them this year and next. It'll be tough if they have the dark finish and everybody gets them, I'll be jealous.
[/quote]

I kind of agree - I would be happy to get some 56's while everyone jumps on the 55's.

[BluePrints2]

anyone think S56 irons will be one of the respected Ping classics like i5s and G5s? old but still go for $200+?

[Bob57]

No because they did not remotely approach the sales numbers of the i5 or G5 with the S56s. Very good record on the tour not so good at retail.....

[bennyblanco]

[quote name='Blackbelt golfer' timestamp='1372560895' post='7353612']
anyone think S56 irons will be one of the respected Ping classics like i5s and G5s? old but still go for $200+?
[/quote]

I think the 56's have long held such a status for PING loyalists like B.

Oh and can we stop the cast or forged thing already? All the Karstenites know the 55 will be cast from 17-4.

[tsecor]

forged s55's = crazy sales

[patrick421]

[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372467297' post='7345018']
why would you want a cast club over forged? especially if the price is 1000 or less?
[/quote]

Why would you choose a forged club over cast? It's preference neither is better.

[zaccra]

Looks a little bulky for i or anser series, No?

[tsecor]

[quote name='patrick421' timestamp='1372635610' post='7358038']
[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372467297' post='7345018']
why would you want a cast club over forged? especially if the price is 1000 or less?
[/quote]

Why would you choose a forged club over cast? It's preference neither is better.
[/quote]
As in better, do you mean "quality" or performance?

Quality wise, forged clubs are better, and more consistent (distances and dispersion)...no air pockets in the middle of the club that can create shorter hits.

Performance wise.....if you can hit a club, you can hit a club....but forged is obviously a better quality club.....

[bushwood]

I know ping wont say, but are the s55's going to be in play at the British Open? Anyone have that info?

[gopherguts]

[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372679448' post='7360810']
[quote name='patrick421' timestamp='1372635610' post='7358038']
[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372467297' post='7345018']
why would you want a cast club over forged? especially if the price is 1000 or less?
[/quote]

Why would you choose a forged club over cast? It's preference neither is better.
[/quote]
As in better, do you mean "quality" or performance?

Quality wise, forged clubs are better, and more consistent (distances and dispersion)...no air pockets in the middle of the club that can create shorter hits.

Performance wise.....if you can hit a club, you can hit a club....but forged is obviously a better quality club.....
[/quote]

Quality ? Please define "quality".

As for your "air pockets and shorter hits",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1336413884' post='4866226']
There is no scientific explanation that can possibly be used to explain how any difference in the grain structure of a metal alloy could generate a higher or lower ball speed upon impact.

None of the factors which do control ball speed at impact have anything to do with the internal grain structure of the metal used to make the head.

As such, if a cast iron shows differences in shot distance, the differences have to be explained by variations in one or more of the specifications of the club that have a bearing on clubhead speed or point of impact on the face - which also means it is possible for such distance inconsistencies to occur in any forged iron as well.

Hot spots in cast clubheads is a myth based on my 27 yrs of clubhead design experience and study and research.
[/quote]

You can read Tom's entire post here ----> [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/651494-blades-accuracy/page__st__60__p__4866226#entry4866226"]http://www.golfwrx.c...26#entry4866226[/url]

[tsecor]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1372734168' post='7368066']
[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372679448' post='7360810']
[quote name='patrick421' timestamp='1372635610' post='7358038']
[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372467297' post='7345018']
why would you want a cast club over forged? especially if the price is 1000 or less?
[/quote]

Why would you choose a forged club over cast? It's preference neither is better.
[/quote]
As in better, do you mean "quality" or performance?

Quality wise, forged clubs are better, and more consistent (distances and dispersion)...no air pockets in the middle of the club that can create shorter hits.

Performance wise.....if you can hit a club, you can hit a club....but forged is obviously a better quality club.....
[/quote]

Quality ? Please define "quality".

As for your "air pockets and shorter hits",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1336413884' post='4866226']
There is no scientific explanation that can possibly be used to explain how any difference in the grain structure of a metal alloy could generate a higher or lower ball speed upon impact.

None of the factors which do control ball speed at impact have anything to do with the internal grain structure of the metal used to make the head.

As such, if a cast iron shows differences in shot distance, the differences have to be explained by variations in one or more of the specifications of the club that have a bearing on clubhead speed or point of impact on the face - which also means it is possible for such distance inconsistencies to occur in any forged iron as well.

Hot spots in cast clubheads is a myth based on my 27 yrs of clubhead design experience and study and research.
[/quote]

You can read Tom's entire post here ----> [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/651494-blades-accuracy/page__st__60__p__4866226#entry4866226"]http://www.golfwrx.c...26#entry4866226[/url]
[/quote]

Obviously, I am not the expert here, but Mizuno obviously has thier own research and the "quality" aspect is apparent over cast clubs.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkb12RwntlM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkb12RwntlM[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An6tY7vRMic"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An6tY7vRMic[/url]

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372765088' post='7369408']

Obviously, I am not the expert here, but Mizuno obviously has thier own research and the "quality" aspect is apparent over cast clubs.

[/quote]

I trust the independent expertise of Tom Wishon over the P.R. of Mizuno.

[JaxBeachNole]

[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372765088' post='7369408']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1372734168' post='7368066']
[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372679448' post='7360810']
[quote name='patrick421' timestamp='1372635610' post='7358038']
[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372467297' post='7345018']
why would you want a cast club over forged? especially if the price is 1000 or less?
[/quote]

Why would you choose a forged club over cast? It's preference neither is better.
[/quote]
As in better, do you mean "quality" or performance?

Quality wise, forged clubs are better, and more consistent (distances and dispersion)...no air pockets in the middle of the club that can create shorter hits.

Performance wise.....if you can hit a club, you can hit a club....but forged is obviously a better quality club.....
[/quote]

Quality ? Please define "quality".

As for your "air pockets and shorter hits",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1336413884' post='4866226']
There is no scientific explanation that can possibly be used to explain how any difference in the grain structure of a metal alloy could generate a higher or lower ball speed upon impact.

None of the factors which do control ball speed at impact have anything to do with the internal grain structure of the metal used to make the head.

As such, if a cast iron shows differences in shot distance, the differences have to be explained by variations in one or more of the specifications of the club that have a bearing on clubhead speed or point of impact on the face - which also means it is possible for such distance inconsistencies to occur in any forged iron as well.

Hot spots in cast clubheads is a myth based on my 27 yrs of clubhead design experience and study and research.
[/quote]

You can read Tom's entire post here ----> [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/651494-blades-accuracy/page__st__60__p__4866226#entry4866226"]http://www.golfwrx.c...26#entry4866226[/url]
[/quote]

Obviously, I am not the expert here, but Mizuno obviously has thier own research and the "quality" aspect is apparent over cast clubs.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkb12RwntlM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkb12RwntlM[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An6tY7vRMic"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An6tY7vRMic[/url]
[/quote]

In no way am I saying that Mizuno is not a top notch iron, or that their irons don't excel in the quality dept... But come on dude.

1) those are promotional videos produced by a manufacturer about how their products are better than the competition. Of course theirs looks better.

2) the tuning test part is not exactly scientific, done consistently or even quantifiable.

3) they don't explain why that is better for golf

Again, I'm not saying anything against Mizuno or their processes but just these videos as convincing of the Cast/Forged argument.

Also these videos don't hold a candle to TW's info. And personally there are lots of cast clubs I have played that have preformed at the premier level of their time, and lots of forged as well


I do appreciate the second video of Mizuno's process, thanks.

[tsecor]

I hear ya.....maybe in my mind, forged is a "better" club because its not a mold. I have played cast clubs my entire life and they were great....I do think forged clubs feel better though

[gopherguts]

[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372806659' post='7375482']
I hear ya.....maybe in my mind, forged is a "better" club because its not a mold. I have played cast clubs my entire life and they were great....[b]I do think forged clubs feel better though[/b]
[/quote]

[i]"[color=#282828][size=4]without question if you make the same exact iron head shape and design from both cast stainless and forged carbon steel, there is virtually no one, NO ONE, who can detect which one is cast and which is forged. THis is what PING's test showed, and way back in 1983 it was what the GOLF magazine test that I was a part of doing with Raymond [/size][/color]Floyd[color=#282828][size=4] also showed."[/size][/color][/i]

[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/598983-cast-vs-forged/page__p__4366723__hl__+floyd#entry4366723"]http://www.golfwrx.c...yd#entry4366723[/url]

[i][color=#282828]"So today, if you did the same exact test with a cast stainless vs an additional step forging on an identical head design, you might find a player here or there who could feel a little difference. But among all the low handicap golfers, I doubt very seriously that you could find more than a tiny fraction of a percentage who could."[/color][/i]

[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/837784-does-forged-really-mean-forged/page__st__30__p__6985276__hl__+floyd#entry6985276"][i][color=#282828]http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/837784-does-forged-really-mean-forged/page__st__30__p__6985276__hl__+floyd#entry6985276[/color][/i][/url]

[Doublebuck]

[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1372766834' post='7369534']
[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372765088' post='7369408']
Obviously, I am not the expert here, but Mizuno obviously has thier own research and the "quality" aspect is apparent over cast clubs.

[/quote]

I trust the independent expertise of Tom Wishon over the P.R. of Mizuno.
[/quote]

So do I. I don't buy golf clubs because they make a better bell. I play Mizuno right now, frankly I wish I had my Pings back that my son now has. My cousin better than scratch has two other sets he won, but won't give up his TM R7 (cast)(long time forged previously). Tom Wishon tells it like it is in my honest opinion, has little to gain by his posts, and bases his comments on years of study, not years of sales.
Quite a number of the Pros could tell, not the rest of us. If there was a true performance/feel difference, then would all the Pros not play one or the other?

[tsecor]

[quote name='Doublebuck' timestamp='1372810407' post='7376028']
[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1372766834' post='7369534']
[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372765088' post='7369408']
Obviously, I am not the expert here, but Mizuno obviously has thier own research and the "quality" aspect is apparent over cast clubs.

[/quote]

I trust the independent expertise of Tom Wishon over the P.R. of Mizuno.
[/quote]

So do I. I don't buy golf clubs because they make a better bell. I play Mizuno right now, frankly I wish I had my Pings back that my son now has. My cousin better than scratch has two other sets he won, but won't give up his TM R7 (cast)(long time forged previously). Tom Wishon tells it like it is in my honest opinion, has little to gain by his posts, and bases his comments on years of study, not years of sales.
Quite a number of the Pros could tell, not the rest of us. If there was a true performance/feel difference, then would all the Pros not play one or the other?
[/quote]
pros get PAID to play a certain brand....see Rory....

I have a set of titleist 712 MB's, a set of ping ansers and a set of Ping S56's......the MBs feel the best with the ansers 2nd.....s56s are great too but the feel of the cast is much different to me. And Im a 11 HDCP player so im not great by anyones standard

[gopherguts]

[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372816608' post='7377048']
[quote name='Doublebuck' timestamp='1372810407' post='7376028']
[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1372766834' post='7369534']
[quote name='tsecor' timestamp='1372765088' post='7369408']
Obviously, I am not the expert here, but Mizuno obviously has thier own research and the "quality" aspect is apparent over cast clubs.

[/quote]

I trust the independent expertise of Tom Wishon over the P.R. of Mizuno.
[/quote]

So do I. I don't buy golf clubs because they make a better bell. I play Mizuno right now, frankly I wish I had my Pings back that my son now has. My cousin better than scratch has two other sets he won, but won't give up his TM R7 (cast)(long time forged previously). Tom Wishon tells it like it is in my honest opinion, has little to gain by his posts, and bases his comments on years of study, not years of sales.
Quite a number of the Pros could tell, not the rest of us. If there was a true performance/feel difference, then would all the Pros not play one or the other?
[/quote]
pros get PAID to play a certain brand....see Rory....

I have a set of titleist 712 MB's, a set of ping ansers and a set of Ping S56's......the MBs feel the best with the ansers 2nd.....s56s are great too but the feel of the cast is much different to me. And Im a 11 HDCP player so im not great by anyones standard
[/quote]

What's being paid to play a CERTAIN BRAND got to do with [b]cast vs. forged[/b] ? Correct. Nothing.

Nike doesn't make both ?

So the forged "feels" better to you. YOU can tell the difference ? And Raymond Floyd couldn't ?

Did you read Tom Wishon's posts ? The difference in feel is PROBABLY due to the different clubhead designs and different shaft combos rather than the clubhead material.

But just like most have been saying all along, play whatever you like,,,,,,,, so enough already with your "quality", marketing videos, "more consistent" and the rest of your spurious claims,,,,,, that get refuted at every turn,,,,,,,

YOUR "mind" is all that counts,,,,,, to YOU,,,,,,, just "hang your hat" on that. [size=4] [/size][size=4] [/size]

[Bob57]

Feel is often times impacted by sound and shaft used as well. Nothing felt softer than the old Yonex ADX Tour irons with the best iron graphite shaft ever produced. Those felt butter soft (softer than anything produced to date IMHO). Some felt the old forgings were softer because they had an underlayment of copper rather than two nickel layers they have today. Many manufacturers produce excellent forgings and they are so close in quality it really comes down to personal preference. Nobody denies that Miura probably has the closest head weight tolerances available today. On the other hand anyone that has reshafted a set of Mizunos is libel to find the entire range of lead weight plugs offered today in the same set. Probably the worst example I experienced was their limited edition MP-100 that had a small weight of plastic plug of less than .5 gram all the way up to a 10 gram lead plug in two of the scoring clubs (this by the way makes changing shafts a challenge with such a large head weight variation). That would lead one to believe that Mizuno uses virtually everything and has a very large weight tolerance window of acceptable product. Still many people swear by Mizuno's feel. Ping has done a very good job of producing a carbon steel like forging feel in the latest ansers (the first versions not so much). The S56s will never be mistaken for a carbon steel forging but have a very good feel and feedback. Another example was the old BeCu and BeNi irons which were always considered to be much softer feeling than the 17-4 ph steel irons ping made in the same era. Those were a great example of how sound impacted feel in many people's minds. The truth was both Cu and Ni irons were much harder on a brinell scale compared to the stainless steel irons but everyone swore they were softer feeling..