Dave D's swing thread - Pg 39 new putter & swing update 9th April

[Golfbeat]

Dave, I am as far from an instructor as possible but somewhat in defence of Gankas I would have the following observations. It looks as if at P6 your shoulders are still closed instead of square and your hips do not seem to be about 30* open. At impact you do not seem to have shoulders open 30* and hips 45*. I understand that Gankas wants the club getting into the correct impact position through the rotation and opening of the body rather than moving the arms into impact.

 

Slow motion drilling of these positions is rather easy but to do it in a full swing is pretty tough what I am experiencing myself. What I am also experiencing myself (and mind you I am not as good as a player as you!) is that when I try something different as for example speeding up the arms it will work for a while but in the end I still do not end up with my body in the optimum positions at impact which in my view will more naturally support a little forward shaft lean and the hands over the left shoe.

 

Anyway, you have a great swing and are a very good player so you will surely find your own way to further improve. I just wanted to say that there are more ways and intentions to get to impact but in my view it will be necessary to hit the optimum body positions for good and consistent contact.

 

Thanks for making this thread, it greatly enhances further learning.

[Golfbeat]

Slow arms, open body.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/-SeBCaCt4v/

[golfoh]

Dave,

First, great swing. I've lurked and followed this thread for quite a while, it's cool for you to document thoughts, changes, and progress.

 

It looks like your first move in transition is sort of moving your head and left shoulder together with a slight bit of EE. This is a move I've been fighting forever and I could never find a feel to get away from it. Doing the Gankas move, if you feel your left knee and left hip go down and around, you'll feel more core rotation and head can stay back (without thought). The 'down and around' seems to accomplish something similar to what Bobby wants you to do -- it keeps your chest a bit more closed and helps keep the arms in front of chest and not stuck behind or late. I don't have to consciously do anything with the arms. You don't 'hold' them up, you just leave them up as you go down and around. The key for me is feeling like left hip is lower than the right on the downswing. The effect is that you'll feel like you're really 'covering' the ball more with your torso. It's hard to explain, but since my left hip and shoulder are no longer going immediately up in transition, the net effect is that I have more down and more rotation, meaning I don't have to dump the club to get to the ball.

 

This shows a bit:

Here's another where he talks about the chest staying a bit closed:

And one more about left hip down and around:

 

Early results with the GG move have been very encouraging for me. I am planning on tons of mirror work and I'm setting up my simulator lab soon so I can work on it all winter.

[ShutSteepStuck]

The 'down and around' seems to accomplish something similar to what Bobby wants you to do -- it keeps your chest a bit more closed and helps keep the arms in front of chest and not stuck behind or late. I don't have to consciously do anything with the arms. You don't 'hold' them up, you just leave them up as you go down and around. The key for me is feeling like left hip is lower than the right on the downswing. The effect is that you'll feel like you're really 'covering' the ball more with your torso. It's hard to explain, but since my left hip and shoulder are no longer going immediately up in transition, the net effect is that I have more down and more rotation, meaning I don't have to dump the club to get to the ball.

 

^So many great points, especially the point about leaving the hands up as you go down and around with the lead hip and knee. You can clearly see the hands working OUTish from the top in many of GG's students.

 

As you noted, it seemed like Bobby L's intentions are to keep Dave from from flying open too soon during the DS, to keep that left hip and shoulder from working too high (and too far around) until a bit later during the DS.

 

In Bobby L's example of Immelman, you can see hips fairly level at p5.5 and left shoulder "below" right (2D...) which leads to hands in front of chest. Whereas Dave has left hip higher than right already at p5.

[Dave D]

Dave, I am as far from an instructor as possible but somewhat in defence of Gankas I would have the following observations. It looks as if at P6 your shoulders are still closed instead of square and your hips do not seem to be about 30* open. At impact you do not seem to have shoulders open 30* and hips 45*. I understand that Gankas wants the club getting into the correct impact position through the rotation and opening of the body rather than moving the arms into impact.

 

Slow motion drilling of these positions is rather easy but to do it in a full swing is pretty tough what I am experiencing myself. What I am also experiencing myself (and mind you I am not as good as a player as you!) is that when I try something different as for example speeding up the arms it will work for a while but in the end I still do not end up with my body in the optimum positions at impact which in my view will more naturally support a little forward shaft lean and the hands over the left shoe.

 

Anyway, you have a great swing and are a very good player so you will surely find your own way to further improve. I just wanted to say that there are more ways and intentions to get to impact but in my view it will be necessary to hit the optimum body positions for good and consistent contact.

 

Thanks for making this thread, it greatly enhances further learning.

I completely agree that I'm not open enough and I want to get more open, and I've been really trying. But there's a reason I can't. I think because my arms get stuck behind me I then have to stop turning to get them back in front to hit the ball where I want it to. That first initial transition move creates no space and means I have to do something to get the arms back in front at the last second

[Dave D]

Dave,

First, great swing. I've lurked and followed this thread for quite a while, it's cool for you to document thoughts, changes, and progress.

 

It looks like your first move in transition is sort of moving your head and left shoulder together with a slight bit of EE. This is a move I've been fighting forever and I could never find a feel to get away from it. Doing the Gankas move, if you feel your left knee and left hip go down and around, you'll feel more core rotation and head can stay back (without thought). The 'down and around' seems to accomplish something similar to what Bobby wants you to do -- it keeps your chest a bit more closed and helps keep the arms in front of chest and not stuck behind or late. I don't have to consciously do anything with the arms. You don't 'hold' them up, you just leave them up as you go down and around. The key for me is feeling like left hip is lower than the right on the downswing. The effect is that you'll feel like you're really 'covering' the ball more with your torso. It's hard to explain, but since my left hip and shoulder are no longer going immediately up in transition, the net effect is that I have more down and more rotation, meaning I don't have to dump the club to get to the ball.

 

This shows a bit:

Here's another where he talks about the chest staying a bit closed:

And one more about left hip down and around:

 

Early results with the GG move have been very encouraging for me. I am planning on tons of mirror work and I'm setting up my simulator lab soon so I can work on it all winter.

Thanks for taking the time to post and dig out those links. Have you had lessons with GG? Will experiment with the left hip Lower feel if it helps keep the shoulders closed a bit more. You're absolute dead on with my first move in transition though.

 

I definitely know I need to think about rotation still I just can't think about arms down or I'll end up like last time with no rotation. It's just trying to figure out what pieces go put together. Thanks again

[Dave D]

Coincidentally Dan Whittaker has just posted a video documenting pretty much the exact thing I need to work on

 

[golfoh]

Dave,

First, great swing. I've lurked and followed this thread for quite a while, it's cool for you to document thoughts, changes, and progress.

 

It looks like your first move in transition is sort of moving your head and left shoulder together with a slight bit of EE. This is a move I've been fighting forever and I could never find a feel to get away from it. Doing the Gankas move, if you feel your left knee and left hip go down and around, you'll feel more core rotation and head can stay back (without thought). The 'down and around' seems to accomplish something similar to what Bobby wants you to do -- it keeps your chest a bit more closed and helps keep the arms in front of chest and not stuck behind or late. I don't have to consciously do anything with the arms. You don't 'hold' them up, you just leave them up as you go down and around. The key for me is feeling like left hip is lower than the right on the downswing. The effect is that you'll feel like you're really 'covering' the ball more with your torso. It's hard to explain, but since my left hip and shoulder are no longer going immediately up in transition, the net effect is that I have more down and more rotation, meaning I don't have to dump the club to get to the ball.

 

This shows a bit: https://www.instagra...swingtips&hl=en

Here's another where he talks about the chest staying a bit closed: https://www.instagra...swingtips&hl=en

And one more about left hip down and around: https://www.instagra...swingtips&hl=en

 

Early results with the GG move have been very encouraging for me. I am planning on tons of mirror work and I'm setting up my simulator lab soon so I can work on it all winter.

Thanks for taking the time to post and dig out those links. Have you had lessons with GG? Will experiment with the left hip Lower feel if it helps keep the shoulders closed a bit more. You're absolute dead on with my first move in transition though.

 

I definitely know I need to think about rotation still I just can't think about arms down or I'll end up like last time with no rotation. It's just trying to figure out what pieces go put together. Thanks again

 

No lessons with GG, but I have his membership site and have been finding it full of very good information. There are several 40+minute full over the shoulder lessons where he helps players who have various issues (too under, too steep, over the top, etc). His message is always consistent. He explains to each player the hows and whys, demonstrates in various ways, and you see these players make immediate improvements. Kind of like when Hstead posted his first 'no throw' swings and he had such great rotation. GG gets players to understand and feel these things very quickly.

 

I tried doing Monte's bump dump and turn, then tried getting the bump to 10:30 at transition, etc. All these felt awkward and manipulated and I just couldn't get it. GG's down and around and making left leg go external while sitting/flexing into the right automatically make my hips open up in a way that is purely reactive rather than me trying to force it.

[Grayback1973]

Dave,thanks for posting that Chris Ryan video a few pages back.Getting right side bend in the downswing is one of the things I cycle back to.It is tough to work on with a club but I can do it pretty well without one.Bobby Lopez teaches the same concept in a few of his YouTube videos.

[bph7]

Coincidentally Dan Whittaker has just posted a video documenting pretty much the exact thing I need to work on

 

 

Great video. Clarifies a vary common misunderstanding/pitfall that many fall into in search of the "pivot driven" swing.

[Dave D]

Dave,thanks for posting that Chris Ryan video a few pages back.Getting right side bend in the downswing is one of the things I cycle back to.It is tough to work on with a club but I can do it pretty well without one.Bobby Lopez teaches the same concept in a few of his YouTube videos.

Your welcome, I think it's a superb drill and try and do it a few times a day. Haven't seen many of Bobby's videos, will have to give them a watch

[Dave D]

Coincidentally Dan Whittaker has just posted a video documenting pretty much the exact thing I need to work on

 

 

Great video. Clarifies a vary common misunderstanding/pitfall that many fall into in search of the "pivot driven" swing.

X1000

 

Certainly I did. Great video explaining things and the importance that the arms need to work off the chest as per Monte & Dan say

[Ezgolfer]

Left shoulder and arm are so overlooked in golf swing .

http://golfshane.blo...lag-secret.html

[Grayback1973]

Here is a video by BL that demonstrates right side bending without mentioning it at all.Just shows how he believes the shoulders work in a correct downswing.....

[Dave D]

Here is a video by BL that demonstrates right side bending without mentioning it at all.Just shows how he believes the shoulders work in a correct downswing.....

[media=]

[/media]

thanks for sharing that, there's a really good drill which might help that Dana advocates in the Be better golf sync your swing video, a hockey stick type drill with split hands. you really have to open up and get that right side bend to be able to swing through. Also feels to me it helps speed the arms up in relation to the body

[Dave D]

 

 

Setup needed some cleaning up. No point trying new moves too much when the basics aren't right. Weight was too in the heels and I was rocking back onto the heels more which then meant towards the top of the backswing it counterbalanced me onto my toes. My chin had got quite stuck to my chest which meant my left shoulder moved my head right as I turned back. Lift the chin up a bit and all of a sudden a nice free turn and no big upper body move off the ball.

 

Have been doing the hockey stick drill to work on body pivot and the Bobby Lopez move to get my arms working quicker.

 

Sadly the evenings are drawing in here in the UK. Was dark at 6.45pm tonight. Which means only 45 mins of practice after work. And only for another 2 weeks til the clock goes back. Bloody winter

[Dave D]

 

 

impact is gradually getting better and shoulders getting more open, hardly any EE and what there is is caused in the backswing, the yellow line was setup and red line top of backswing so there isn't any in the downswing.

 

I really want to get on the pressure measuring system at my club to see what's going on. will help with tidying up the backswing and from looking at my feet in transition it looks like all my weight goes to the front of my left foot, then I back out of it. rather than keeping pressure on the right ball and getting into the left heel.

 

Michael Martin (Fort Worth Pro) does a great job of explaining this in his pressures video http://youtu.be/JAKR6XOQjEA?t=3m55s

[MPStrat]

That is a great video by FWP. My most pure strikes are when I FEEL like I don't clear/shift pressure to the left foot until the club is on the ball. When I shift/clear too early I roll my left foot really hard onto my left ankle, and on bad days it feels like I'm not putting any pressure on the ball and I'm a club or two short on everything. When I clear/shift later, my foot stays flatter as a result and I feel much more pressure into the ground and more powerful strikes.

[Dave D]

That is a great video by FWP. My most pure strikes are when I FEEL like I don't clear/shift pressure to the left foot until the club is on the ball. When I shift/clear too early I roll my left foot really hard onto my left ankle, and on bad days it feels like I'm not putting any pressure on the ball and I'm a club or two short on everything. When I clear/shift later, my foot stays flatter as a result and I feel much more pressure into the ground and more powerful strikes.

 

I like that idea of not shifting pressure to the left til at the ball.

 

Here is another good video from Andrew Rice showing this exact thing:

 

[Dave D]

Had a lesson in the swing studio and numbers were good, if a little shallow. Foot pressures were fine. Was good to find some feels to hit a small fade and a big fade which I had been really struggling with.

 

Still working on getting rid of that late stall timing move. Worked on getting more open with right shoulder more external. This was a 50% speed swing which has a lot less stall out, hard to do at full speed but hip turn looks very level through the ball?

 

[Dave D]

I am now officially, for the first time ever a scratch golfer!!! lifelong goal achieved!

 

got cut 0.1 yesterday to get to 0.4. was a fairly scrappy round in very tough conditions but battled well. going to print the handicap certificate out quick before I play in a comp and go back up to 1 :lol:

 

didn't hit the ball overly great but short game was good. very odd for me as I'm normally a GIR machine, only hit 9 greens. was in 3 of the 4 par 5s in 2 and birdied the other one (644 yards). birdied 1 other par 4 and had 5 bogeys (2 3 putts).

 

nice to get this done as this was probably the last competition this year before winter golf sets in and the back tees go away.

 

My goal for the year was to get into the 0. somethings and for next year to get to scratch. Now my goal for next year is to get to +1.

 

I need to work on my putting tempo, luckily I have one of those whippy putters at home, I have a tendency to have inconsistent tempo which makes distance control hard and inconsistent. Using that whippy putter smooths everything out in my stroke.

 

and here's the proof!

 

[jut111]

Congrats Dave! I hope to join you one of these days.

[QMany]

Congrats, brother! That's great progress.

[Golfbeat]

Congrats! Hard work is paying off!

[pinhigh27]

UK scratch is no joke. Very nice

[sethdavidsdad]

Congrats! That's awesome, hoping for the same for me next year.

[Hawkeye77]

Congrats! Another milestone in one of some great personal journey threads we are lucky to have here.

[Dave D]

Thanks guys

[i*windows]

that's a great effort and well done. My goal is to get to single figures, maybe I'll start my own 'David B's swing thread'

[Dave D]

that's a great effort and well done. My goal is to get to single figures, maybe I'll start my own 'David B's swing thread'

Thanks. Do it! helps you focus and is a good diary to look over your swing changes.