The NBA basketball thread 2013-2014

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='gambit' timestamp='1381357597' post='7977773']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381355460' post='7977605']
on my jog today (i always think about hoops when i run LOL) i just couldn't get over how much i'd love to see Rondo in OKC with Russell and Durant, and how much the Asik/Anderson trade makes sense. Asik for Anderson unquestionably makes both teams better and their salary is the same. I think if they sat Westbrook down and asked him to be an Iverson like guard, they could convince him to play with Rondo. And OKC needs to do [i]something[/i]....Boston is blowing stuff up....i'm sure they'd take a pick and say Jeremy Lamb. I don't see there being a [i]super [/i]hot market for Rondo given how many point guards there are

man. why can't the trades i want to happen ever happen....LOL
[/quote]

OK. I need some clarification. You're saying that Rondo going to OKC would let Westbrook be an Iverson type combo guard. How? Iverson spent his years as the primary ball handler and shooter for his team. Please don't say he had Eric Snow to run the point just because he brought the ball up half the time. Iverson gets the ball once it gets past half court. If Westbrook becomes that kind of player then how does Durant thrive and stay happy, and how do you justify having an all star PG in Rondo just bringing the ball up?

Asik isn't going anywhere until they know Dwight's back is 100%. Otherwise you lose your contingency plan. They can also play both of them together at times when playing bigger teams like Memphis. Anderson is a shooter with limited defense. If Harden plays like he can, Dwight is healthy, and Parsons gets better then why sacrifice defense for more offense?
[/quote]

There's plenty of ball to go around in OKC. Advanced stats IIRC last year showed both Westbrook and Durant had the ball in their hands a very high percentage of the time for their respective positions. In fact Durant touched the ball i think the second most of any frontcourt player other then Lebron, plus he's all but admitted that he doesn't want to be a super high volume scorer and actually prefers the Lebron role. I watched Philly a ton during the Iverson years and yes Snow brought up the ball but they ran a lot of screens and what-not to get Iverson the ball in scoring position. Rondo is a selfish player in a sense in that he wants assists, that's his thing. He wants to get 15 assists a game and play defense, that's pretty much it. There's a lot of minutes in a game, you basically share PG duty when they are on the court together (screen and roles with Westbrook at the point, and more creative sets when Rondo brings it up trying to free up KD or Wetsbrook). Both guys can cover 2 guards. I think it could work. If last year showed us anything it's that they could benefit by a third playmaker. And Rondo would get his 15 assists and play D, Westbrook and Durant could still score except with less pressure to create

I don't see how Asik and Howard play together at all. Neither guy can shoot outside of 4 feet. I have a better offensive post game then Asik. It presents even worse spacing concerns then Gasol/Howard, and we remember how that worked out. When a combo is so bad you have to play Earl Clark over Pau Gasol, that's trouble. I can't see Asik lasting the year in Houston, like you mention, maybe they just want to make sure Dwight is OK first

[MtlJeff]

remember Asik's salary gets bumped to 15M next year, When was the last time a team paid their backup center 15M dollars?

[TripleSingle]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381324160' post='7974941']
jihunyu, i forgot to mention Rondo you're right. He'll be gone by the allstar game. Probably a lock to be traded

Question is where does he go? On the right team he is a great player, as he proved a few times in the playoffs. But i don't like building around him.

Toronto is always super willing to make trades for stars since no one would sign there, they wouldn't give up Valenciunas but maybe Ross. Houston has the pieces and needs a PG, Atlanta maybe

What if OKC gave up Lamb and Steven Adams for him? And played Russell as a hybrid Iverson like player? Sounds awesome but they'd never do that. But i can't imagine a better risk/reward trade....though Houston would seem a great fit too i'm just not sure Morey would take a guy who needs the ball that much with James Harden
[/quote]

Only reason why I don't see Rondo going to OKC is because it appears that the ownership over there is relatively cheap when they didn't keep Harden. If Rondo does move, he will probably go to a place where the owner is willing to the spend the bucks, like a Mark Cuban or Mikhail Prokhorov. He will demand big $, which we've seen him do before. Like before his contract when he said he's Tony Parker calliber. Rondo needs to play with spot-up shooters and pick and roll big guys who can finish at the rim, so teams like Denver, Sac, Detroit make sense to me. In terms of style of play, not that I don't think they cant play well together, I just dont think it would be ideal for Rondo to be in OKC, because you got 2 guys who can create their own shots, as well as create shots for others. Sort of like the bulls from 95-98, you dont need a great PG to play with Michael because he's going to get the ball anyways, so instead they used Ron Harper who pretty much played SG his entire career before coming to Chicago.

[TheGameChanger]

[quote name='jihunyu' timestamp='1381373890' post='7979195']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381324160' post='7974941']
jihunyu, i forgot to mention Rondo you're right. He'll be gone by the allstar game. Probably a lock to be traded

Question is where does he go? On the right team he is a great player, as he proved a few times in the playoffs. But i don't like building around him.

Toronto is always super willing to make trades for stars since no one would sign there, they wouldn't give up Valenciunas but maybe Ross. Houston has the pieces and needs a PG, Atlanta maybe

What if OKC gave up Lamb and Steven Adams for him? And played Russell as a hybrid Iverson like player? Sounds awesome but they'd never do that. But i can't imagine a better risk/reward trade....though Houston would seem a great fit too i'm just not sure Morey would take a guy who needs the ball that much with James Harden
[/quote]

Only reason why I don't see Rondo going to OKC is because it appears that the ownership over there is relatively cheap when they didn't keep Harden. If Rondo does move, he will probably go to a place where the owner is willing to the spend the bucks, like a Mark Cuban or Mikhail Prokhorov. He will demand big $, which we've seen him do before. Like before his contract when he said he's Tony Parker calliber. Rondo needs to play with spot-up shooters and pick and roll big guys who can finish at the rim, so teams like Denver, Sac, Detroit make sense to me. In terms of style of play, not that I don't think they cant play well together, I just dont think it would be ideal for Rondo to be in OKC, because you got 2 guys who can create their own shots, as well as create shots for others. Sort of like the bulls from 95-98, you dont need a great PG to play with Michael because he's going to get the ball anyways, so instead they used Ron Harper who pretty much played SG his entire career before coming to Chicago.
[/quote]

I could see Rondo ending up in Dallas. I Doubt he ends the season in Boston.

[baseballfrk8998]

Magic is out on NBA Countdown and Doris Burke is in.

I'll pass.

[tocino]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381359057' post='7977913']
remember Asik's salary gets bumped to 15M next year, When was the last time a team paid their backup center 15M dollars?
[/quote]

The warriors used to have a 10M+ backup center when we still had biendrins. Difference is Asik is pretty good. I'm kind of on the fence as far if the rockets should trade him or not. It's a lot harder than you think to find a solid-to-good center or big power forward still, but 10M+ let alone 15M+ for a backup is a bit rediculous.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1381509762' post='7987425']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381359057' post='7977913']
remember Asik's salary gets bumped to 15M next year, When was the last time a team paid their backup center 15M dollars?
[/quote]

The warriors used to have a 10M+ backup center when we still had biendrins. Difference is Asik is pretty good. I'm kind of on the fence as far if the rockets should trade him or not. It's a lot harder than you think to find a solid-to-good center or big power forward still, but 10M+ let alone 15M+ for a backup is a bit rediculous.
[/quote]

haha, that Biedrins signing was one of the worst contracts in the NBA. The guy was terrified of just being on the floor.

I just think Asik and Howard can't play together, and it's way too much to pay a guy to play 15 minutes a game. Especially when a lot of teams would value him a lot.

I wonder if they would send him in the conference to a contender though. The Pelicans seemed like a good fit as i mentioned. The Clippers would be a great destination. In a vacuum i'd think a Deandre Jordan for Asik swap would make sense if the Clips through in Reggie Bullock too. But i doubt they'd ship him to a contender

[TheGameChanger]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381541051' post='7989857']
[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1381509762' post='7987425']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381359057' post='7977913']
remember Asik's salary gets bumped to 15M next year, When was the last time a team paid their backup center 15M dollars?
[/quote]

The warriors used to have a 10M+ backup center when we still had biendrins. Difference is Asik is pretty good. I'm kind of on the fence as far if the rockets should trade him or not. It's a lot harder than you think to find a solid-to-good center or big power forward still, but 10M+ let alone 15M+ for a backup is a bit rediculous.
[/quote]

haha, that Biedrins signing was one of the worst contracts in the NBA. The guy was terrified of just being on the floor.

I just think Asik and Howard can't play together, and it's way too much to pay a guy to play 15 minutes a game. Especially when a lot of teams would value him a lot.

I wonder if they would send him in the conference to a contender though. The Pelicans seemed like a good fit as i mentioned. The Clippers would be a great destination. In a vacuum i'd think a Deandre Jordan for Asik swap would make sense if the Clips through in Reggie Bullock too. But i doubt they'd ship him to a contender
[/quote]

Asik and Lin for Amare lol.

[TripleSingle]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381541051' post='7989857']
[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1381509762' post='7987425']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381359057' post='7977913']
remember Asik's salary gets bumped to 15M next year, When was the last time a team paid their backup center 15M dollars?
[/quote]

The warriors used to have a 10M+ backup center when we still had biendrins. Difference is Asik is pretty good. I'm kind of on the fence as far if the rockets should trade him or not. It's a lot harder than you think to find a solid-to-good center or big power forward still, but 10M+ let alone 15M+ for a backup is a bit rediculous.
[/quote]

[b]haha, that Biedrins signing was one of the worst contracts in the NBA. The guy was terrified of just being on the floor[/b].

I just think Asik and Howard can't play together, and it's way too much to pay a guy to play 15 minutes a game. Especially when a lot of teams would value him a lot.

I wonder if they would send him in the conference to a contender though. The Pelicans seemed like a good fit as i mentioned. The Clippers would be a great destination. In a vacuum i'd think a Deandre Jordan for Asik swap would make sense if the Clips through in Reggie Bullock too. But i doubt they'd ship him to a contender
[/quote]

What about Shawn Kemp's $107 million deal with the Cavs? The fat version of Shawn Kemp too.
Just some others I think are some of the worst contracts ever:
Jalen Rose's $95 million
Gilbert Arenas: $111 million
Joe Johnson's $119 million. I know he's a starter and a good scorer, but he wasn't even their number 1 option
Rashard Lewis's $126 million with the Orlando Magic

[MtlJeff]

Amare Stoudemire is the Babe Ruth of bad contracts. It was atrocious at the time of signing. Rumor is the Knicks could not get it insured because there were so many health concerns. His is so bad the Knicks would literally give him away for nothing in return, but there's no one who will take him

He has 2 more years (counting this one) at 22+ million. That makes him one of the highest paid players in the NBA. Read that sentence again

In his prime he was a terrible defender. Now he's nowhere near his prime, is one of the worst post defenders in the NBA, can't score like he used to, and the Knicks are probably better when he is on the bench

His contract is so bad i bet you Carmelo leaves rather then waste another year playing with him, because he's so overpaid he kills their cap flexibility

[Neo1]

heat will 3 peat, i think indiana will bring it but as long as wade & james are healthy they should win. i think OKC will get out of the west but really there are 4 or 5 teams who could win the west.

[MtlJeff]

Watch 8:34 of this video

[url="http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/77956/bill-and-jalens-nba-preview-new-orleans-pelicans"]http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/77956/bill-and-jalens-nba-preview-new-orleans-pelicans[/url]

Bill Simmons/Jalen Rose preview of the Pelicans

They are reading my mind man!!!!

[MtlJeff]

i guess that's how obvious a move it is for both teams

[TripleSingle]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381693064' post='7995763']
Amare Stoudemire is the Babe Ruth of bad contracts. It was atrocious at the time of signing. Rumor is the Knicks could not get it insured because there were so many health concerns. His is so bad the Knicks would literally give him away for nothing in return, but there's no one who will take him

He has 2 more years (counting this one) at 22+ million. That makes him one of the highest paid players in the NBA. Read that sentence again

In his prime he was a terrible defender. Now he's nowhere near his prime, is one of the worst post defenders in the NBA, can't score like he used to, and the Knicks are probably better when he is on the bench

His contract is so bad i bet you Carmelo leaves rather then waste another year playing with him, because he's so overpaid he kills their cap flexibility
[/quote]

Amare's big contract definitely one of the worst Knicks contract, but worse than Stephon Marbury's 5-year $90 million? Amare couldn't play mostly because of injuries, but Marbury's career went down the drain because he chose to have a bad attitude, and refused to offer his "services" by sitting out. So yeah Amare's getting paid huge bucks, but Marbury got paid to sit at home.

Regarding the Pelicans, I agree with their points about losing Vasquez and Lopez. And Ryan Anderson-Omer Asik trade totally makes sense to me.

[TheGameChanger]

[quote name='jihunyu' timestamp='1381798301' post='8002039']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381693064' post='7995763']
Amare Stoudemire is the Babe Ruth of bad contracts. It was atrocious at the time of signing. Rumor is the Knicks could not get it insured because there were so many health concerns. His is so bad the Knicks would literally give him away for nothing in return, but there's no one who will take him

He has 2 more years (counting this one) at 22+ million. That makes him one of the highest paid players in the NBA. Read that sentence again

In his prime he was a terrible defender. Now he's nowhere near his prime, is one of the worst post defenders in the NBA, can't score like he used to, and the Knicks are probably better when he is on the bench

His contract is so bad i bet you Carmelo leaves rather then waste another year playing with him, because he's so overpaid he kills their cap flexibility
[/quote]

Amare's big contract definitely one of the worst Knicks contract, but worse than Stephon Marbury's 5-year $90 million? Amare couldn't play mostly because of injuries, but Marbury's career went down the drain because he chose to have a bad attitude, and refused to offer his "services" by sitting out. So yeah Amare's getting paid huge bucks, but Marbury got paid to sit at home.

Regarding the Pelicans, I agree with their points about losing Vasquez and Lopez. And Ryan Anderson-Omer Asik trade totally makes sense to me.
[/quote]

Amare in his first season for the Knicks before Melo arrived was a MVP Candidate.

[MtlJeff]

There is really no better way to explain how clueless Dwight Howard is then reading some of his comments here

[url="http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/10/16/howard-no-regrets-but-steamed-harris-is-wearing-no-12-in-orlando/"]http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/10/16/howard-no-regrets-but-steamed-harris-is-wearing-no-12-in-orlando/[/url]

So , he quits on the team, gets a coach fired, got slammed in the press by both JJ Redick and Jameer Nelson for comments criticizing his former team....and he really, [i]really [/i]believes they should retire or protect his number from other players wearing it???

[uvaskeme]

Definitely not a d12 fan. He's burned me one too many times in my fantasy roto league.

[uvaskeme]

How about that #25 espn ranking for Kobe? I say he's at least top 15, but more likely top 10. Can't see how they can rank him so low when they ranked drose #5 last year with a bum knee. Smh.

[TheGameChanger]

[quote name='uvaskeme' timestamp='1382058564' post='8018817']
How about that #25 espn ranking for Kobe? I say he's at least top 15, but more likely top 10. Can't see how they can rank him so low when they ranked drose #5 last year with a bum knee. Smh.
[/quote]

Kobe is a ball hog.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='TheGameChanger' timestamp='1382070872' post='8019901']
[quote name='uvaskeme' timestamp='1382058564' post='8018817']
How about that #25 espn ranking for Kobe? I say he's at least top 15, but more likely top 10. Can't see how they can rank him so low when they ranked drose #5 last year with a bum knee. Smh.
[/quote]

Kobe is a ball hog.
[/quote]

i think worse then the ball hoggery even is that he is an abysmal defensive player. Kind of a secret in the league that few talk about really. He just rarely gives a hoot on defense anymore

[TheGameChanger]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

Kobe's so called clutch stats

[TripleSingle]

[quote name='TheGameChanger' timestamp='1382137424' post='8023765']
[url="http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time"]http://espn.go.com/b...-in-crunch-time[/url]

Kobe's so called clutch stats
[/quote]

A poll of 26 anonymous active NBA players on who they would want the ball to take the last shot, 23 went to MJ, 3 went to Kobe, none to Lebron.

[attachment=1917817:Kobe-Bryant-LeBron-James-Michael-Jordan-playoff-clutch-shots.jpg]

[mnplayer]

Apparently the GM's voted that Harden was the best SG in the league, what a joke. Kobe had one of the best years of his career last season, everyone is anticipating he won't be the same after the injury. Fair enough, but I'm not betting against Kobe. In other news, Derrick Rose looks pretty damn good. One week until opening day!!!!

[MtlJeff]

Very exciting!!!!!!!

I don't think SG is a very strong position. Harden and Kobe are both supremely good offensive players (assuming Kobe is healthy) but neither plays defense. The defensive aspect of the game is so often overlooked. You can't overlook that Houston had a great offense last year and then barely made the playoffs and lost to the Thunder minus Russell for 3 or 4 of the games (can't remember). Their defense was weak. You can't blame all that on Harden, of course. But he's part of it. Same for Kobe. When Dwight was off the floor they were terrible defensively last year too. Zach Lowe broke down a game against the Warriors last year where Kobe basically left Klay Thompson (a 40% shooter from deep) open a bunch of times out of nothing more then laziness

That's why until the playoffs last year (when he stunk for extended stretches) i still considered Wade the best 2 guard in the game.

[MtlJeff]

So because i'm bored here is my playoffs. In order of where i think they finish in the regular season

West

1) Clippers: Their offense will dominate the league. Offense is more important in the regular season because teams get lazy during the grind of the season. You can steal so many games when your guys just get hot. I think they can get the #1 seed
2) Spurs: They will rest their senior players so much, but Kawhi Leonard should be a breakout star, I predict Marco Belinelli will do very well there and more numbers from Tiago Splitter overall. Plus the teams below them have some issues
3) OKC Thunder: Russell misses a month but their early schedule isn't brutal. Out of their first 20 games even without Westbrook they'll probably still be the favorite in all but 5. And then with Russell....they'll be fine
4) Warriors: Health is the biggest concern. Bogut is a massive part of this team. Their defensive anchor. If they can play Curry-THompson-Iguodala-Barnes-Bogut for extended stretches i think they can win the West. Health is the concern
5) Rockets: I don't think they have enough shooting. This team would be so much better if they'd kept Patterson and Delfino. But i digress
6) Grizzlies: Won't score enough. Dreadful offense. Great defense....scoring baskets for them is a real chore
7) Mavs: Underrated. Carlisle plus healthy Dirk, plus poor man's Steve Nash, plus versatile scorer (ellis). They'll be OK. Bad on defense, but OK
8) Nuggets: Collection of spare parts with no identity, but so much depth

(note, i think the Wolves will trade Kevin Love and that is why they are not here....if they don't trade him they are the #7 or #8 seed)

East rankings in next post

[MtlJeff]

East

1) Bulls: They are the best team in basketball on paper until the playoffs when the Lebron factor kicks in. Zach Lowe wrote today what i've said many times. Rose-Butler-Deng-Gibson-Noah has a chance to be one of the best defenses in modern history
2) Heat: Motivation is a factor in the regular season after 2 titles. Plus i think Wade goes on the Duncan minutes diet this year.
3) Pacers: A much better playoff team then regular season team. They struggle to score sometimes but that should be better this year. They could win the east but not in the regular season
4) Nets: A lot of depth and talent. I don't see egos being a problem. They fit really well together. I think they struggle a bit out of the gates with everyone figuring stuff out but they'll be fine
5) Knicks: A potential disaster season, Carmelo trade rumors will happen. They have some atrocious defensive players. But the east is weak after the top 4
6) Pistons: Too much talent to not be here. Say what you want about Josh and Jennings but they always make the playoffs. Greg Monroe is underrated and an unselfish big man
7) Hawks: If they get off to a bad start maybe they tank and trade Horford or Millsap. But i don't know, gotta rank them here
8) Cavaliers: There's a chance their entire team is on injured reserve by December. If not they are probably a playoff team

[MtlJeff]

BTW what has me positively giddy is that all feedback out of NO is that the Unibrow has beefed up and is killing guys in practice.

If you guys know anything from last year, it's that i am a diehard Russell Westbrook fan, and an unabashed Unibrow supporter.

I said last year he was the 3rd most untrade-able player in the league after KD and Lebron.

We'll find out this season what his Future holds

[TheGameChanger]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1382492144' post='8043225']
East

1) Bulls: They are the best team in basketball on paper until the playoffs when the Lebron factor kicks in. Zach Lowe wrote today what i've said many times. Rose-Butler-Deng-Gibson-Noah has a chance to be one of the best defenses in modern history
2) Heat: Motivation is a factor in the regular season after 2 titles. Plus i think Wade goes on the Duncan minutes diet this year.
3) Pacers: A much better playoff team then regular season team. They struggle to score sometimes but that should be better this year. They could win the east but not in the regular season
4) Nets: A lot of depth and talent. I don't see egos being a problem. They fit really well together. I think they struggle a bit out of the gates with everyone figuring stuff out but they'll be fine
5) Knicks: A potential disaster season, Carmelo trade rumors will happen. They have some atrocious defensive players. But the east is weak after the top 4
6) Pistons: Too much talent to not be here. Say what you want about Josh and Jennings but they always make the playoffs. Greg Monroe is underrated and an unselfish big man
7) Hawks: If they get off to a bad start maybe they tank and trade Horford or Millsap. But i don't know, gotta rank them here
8) Cavaliers: There's a chance their entire team is on injured reserve by December. If not they are probably a playoff team
[/quote]

Agree with the top 5. However got a feeling the Nets will be better then the Pacers. 6-8 Seeds in the East are wide open. Who knows 35 wins might get a playoff spot.

[MtlJeff]

No disagreement, the Nets could certainly be a better regular season team then the Pacers.

In the playoffs the Pacers jump to genuine contender no matter where they finish though.

They finished 49-33 last year which is easy to forget because they took Miami to 7. But they did not win 50 games.

They are a bruising, playoff team

[MtlJeff]

I just thought of this one for OKC....

Lamb/Perkins/Sefalosha/Draft pick for Glen Davis and Aaron Afflalo

Why wouldn't Orlando do this? They get worse in the short term which is what they want in the riggin for Wiggins sweepstakes, while collecting 2 assets. Lamb works if they are serious about Oladipo as a main guard this year which they say they are

OKC gets 2 veterans who can help immediately and are on good contracts.