Vokey SM5 Wedge Photos: shot at the 2013 Shriners

[greens hit]

[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1381898788' post='8008881']
[quote name='HiSpeed48' timestamp='1381886217' post='8007993']
What's the actual difference between S200 and S300? On TT's website the only difference is 1g of weight.
[/quote]

Just something for guys to whine about. How is it possible to whine about S200 being stock and then reference custom orders for Cleveland and Callaway that offer "wedge flex" as their stock? Titleist sells more Vokey wedges in probably 3 months than Callaway does all year. You can't please everyone I guess. They offer an incredible amount of stock wedges with awesome stock grinds that will fit 100% of players. Calaway is offering what 4 lofts with 8 total pieces?? I mean 4... compared to Vokey with 9 lofts and 21 different options not including 3 finishes... every loft and 2-3 bounce and grind options in most lofts and we're gonna complain about S200 being stock when you can get any other DG free if you're willing to wait 3 days to get one custom. S200 is offered "stock" because S300 is stock in the players irons and should an AP1 player using the stock XP shafts want to get a stock Vokey the shaft is gonna play just fine. I also don't understand the forged vs cast debate either... the guys on tour have no problem with cast Vokey wedges. Look at the bag pics every week and Vokey leads the field in play going away... by staffers or non staffers.

I just don't get it I guess.... like or dislike Titleist or Vokey but the product and options they put out to retail for $129 is insanely good... in my opinion of course.
[/quote]

I agree with what you say but I'm still baffled by why S200 specifically is chosen as their stock "wedge" shaft. I'm pretty sure it would suffice for the majority of golfers, but so would S300 or S400 (stock for Nike wedges). I consider Vokeys a "player's" wedge made to match up closely to their player's irons. That's why you see AP1 gap and sand wedge but none for AP2, MB, nor CB. It must've been a conscious decision because I can't fathom it being an economical decision. Most golfers want more heft in their wedges vs their irons not vice versa. So I'm just baffled at their decision. It appears to be a conscious decision so it got me a bit curious.

But, like someone pointed out we're talking about a whole 3 gram difference from s200 to s400. No biggie, but then again, True Temper found it to be a big enough difference to give us a choice.

[bravesgolf]

[quote name='Isaac_Newton' timestamp='1381867573' post='8006233']
[quote name='PingGuru' timestamp='1381866932' post='8006165']
[quote name='Isaac_Newton' timestamp='1381865729' post='8006049']
Titleist getting a free pass for offering cast wedges baffles me. I think Titleist makes great equipment, just not the wedges. Over priced, cast, and offer S200 as stock shafts. Who plays S200?
[/quote]

Cast wedges are every bit as good as forged wedges. I never understand it, b/c I have never been able to tell a difference in performance. Also, you can get S200, S300, S400, and X100 for no upcharge.
[/quote]

I understand you can get several shafts at no up charge. But when I walk into a golf shop and see 20 vokey wedges with S200 shafts it is rediculous. I would be interested to see how many special orders Cleveland or Callaway get for S200s. Probably near zero.

I think most of us agree that forged irons either sound or feel better than cast. Why is this different with the wedges? And please don't cite the marketing crap from Vokey.
[/quote]

I read an article on WRX I think about why BV uses the S200 as stock. He said that in most cases, people are better off with a wedge shaft that is slightly softer than in their irons. It translates to a better, softer feel in the wedge I think he said. So, as S200 plays slightly softer than S300 (stock offering in AP2, CB and MB) that's why they do it I'm guessing.

Happy to be corrected.

Thanks.

[Philipp]

You guys think the "Raw Black" finish is as easy removable (Coke, vinegar, etc.) as the Oil Can?

Phil

[bravesgolf]

[quote name='shootstill' timestamp='1381867711' post='8006249']
[attachment=1913517:Screen Shot 2013-10-15 at 3.06.23 PM.png]
[attachment=1913519:Screen Shot 2013-10-15 at 3.06.42 PM.png]
[/quote]

OMG! are you freakin serious! K grinds in the SM5's! I was just looking at the TVD K grinds and they are sick! Does anyone know if there is much difference between the TVD K grind and the SM5 K grind? The current TVD M grinds seem different to the SM4 M grinds so I'm thinking there will be some difference. Any info would be great guys.

Thanks

[Dizz]

[quote name='greens hit' timestamp='1381905098' post='8009013']
[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1381898788' post='8008881']
[quote name='HiSpeed48' timestamp='1381886217' post='8007993']
What's the actual difference between S200 and S300? On TT's website the only difference is 1g of weight.
[/quote]

Just something for guys to whine about. How is it possible to whine about S200 being stock and then reference custom orders for Cleveland and Callaway that offer "wedge flex" as their stock? Titleist sells more Vokey wedges in probably 3 months than Callaway does all year. You can't please everyone I guess. They offer an incredible amount of stock wedges with awesome stock grinds that will fit 100% of players. Calaway is offering what 4 lofts with 8 total pieces?? I mean 4... compared to Vokey with 9 lofts and 21 different options not including 3 finishes... every loft and 2-3 bounce and grind options in most lofts and we're gonna complain about S200 being stock when you can get any other DG free if you're willing to wait 3 days to get one custom. S200 is offered "stock" because S300 is stock in the players irons and should an AP1 player using the stock XP shafts want to get a stock Vokey the shaft is gonna play just fine. I also don't understand the forged vs cast debate either... the guys on tour have no problem with cast Vokey wedges. Look at the bag pics every week and Vokey leads the field in play going away... by staffers or non staffers.

I just don't get it I guess.... like or dislike Titleist or Vokey but the product and options they put out to retail for $129 is insanely good... in my opinion of course.
[/quote]

I agree with what you say but I'm still baffled by why S200 specifically is chosen as their stock "wedge" shaft. I'm pretty sure it would suffice for the majority of golfers, but so would S300 or S400 (stock for Nike wedges). I consider Vokeys a "player's" wedge made to match up closely to their player's irons. That's why you see AP1 gap and sand wedge but none for AP2, MB, nor CB. It must've been a conscious decision because I can't fathom it being an economical decision. Most golfers want more heft in their wedges vs their irons not vice versa. So I'm just baffled at their decision. It appears to be a conscious decision so it got me a bit curious.

But, like someone pointed out we're talking about a whole 3 gram difference from s200 to s400. No biggie, but then again, True Temper found it to be a big enough difference to give us a choice.
[/quote]

Most players want softer in the wedges... not more heft. If you referring to more weight... OK sure... anybody is gonna be hard pressed to feel the difference between S200 and S300. Vokey believes in softer shafts in the wedges personally as well. For what its worth, having been to these OEM's... something I learned with the wedges is the shaft does not matter numbers wise. The club just has too much loft for the shaft to impact anything other than feel.

[PingGuru]

[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1381931868' post='8009749']
Most players want softer in the wedges... not more heft. If you referring to more weight... OK sure... anybody is gonna be hard pressed to feel the difference between S200 and S300. Vokey believes in softer shafts in the wedges personally as well. For what its worth, having been to these OEM's... something I learned with the wedges is the shaft does not matter numbers wise. The club just has too much loft for the shaft to impact anything other than feel.
[/quote]

So you don't believe the DG Spinner shaft actually adds spin to the ball? I was actually thinking of getting that shaft in the SM5 58K in the spring, but not paying the upcharge if it really doesn't help. I have DG S400 in my SM4 52.

[bph7]

As usual, and frustratingly, this "discussion" has turned into the s200 advocates (or those who are vokey fans or indifferent) trying to convince others, who have already indicated that they don't like the s200, that they shouldn't care. This just makes no sense. If you don't mind the s200s, then this discussion has no relevance to you. Just buy the new vokey if you want when it comes out and enjoy it. However, I am tired of being told by people whether I can tell the difference between an s200 or 300 or 400 or whether $129 is a great value for this club anyway. Guess what, it's a personal opinion. I am not trying to say you SHOULD care about the s200, and, similarly, see no point in others trying to convince me that I SHOULDN'T care. My mind, which has been made up about this through years of golf, isn't going to be changed by someone that I have never met in my life posting something about how it's hardly an difference. It's not a knock on anyone, just a realization it's not going to be easy to change my purchasing priorities with a random forum post.

Bottom line, It's pretty clear that different people have different purchasing priorities. I want to get exactly what I want when I want period, the end, when purchasing NEW golf equipment and refuse to compromise in any way. If I have to compromise, I'd prefer to buy used. It's a simple as that. Not everyone is like this, and that is fine. We can have different priorities, and agree to disagree, but there is no point in people posting on here trying to change what other people's priorities are.

Now, if someone comes on here and legitimately doesn't know whether or how much different the S200 is, and people tell that person that it's hardly different at all, that's fine. Someone was seeking information. But for those on the thread who have clearly made up their mind, I don't see what continuing down this discussion accomplishes besides antagonizing people.

[Dizz]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1381935670' post='8010073']
As usual, and frustratingly, this "discussion" has turned into the s200 advocates (or those who are vokey fans or indifferent) trying to convince others, who have already indicated that they don't like the s200, that they shouldn't care. This just makes no sense. If you don't mind the s200s, then this discussion has no relevance to you. Just buy the new vokey if you want when it comes out and enjoy it. However, I am tired of being told by people whether I can tell the difference between an s200 or 300 or 400 or whether $129 is a great value for this club anyway. Guess what, it's a personal opinion. I am not trying to say you SHOULD care about the s200, and, similarly, see no point in others trying to convince me that I SHOULDN'T care. My mind, which has been made up about this through years of golf, isn't going to be changed by someone that I have never met in my life posting something about how it's hardly an difference. It's not a knock on anyone, just a realization it's not going to be easy to change my purchasing priorities with a random forum post.

Bottom line, It's pretty clear that different people have different purchasing priorities. I want to get exactly what I want when I want period, the end, when purchasing NEW golf equipment and refuse to compromise in any way. If I have to compromise, I'd prefer to buy used. It's a simple as that. Not everyone is like this, and that is fine. We can have different priorities, and agree to disagree, but there is no point in people posting on here trying to change what other people's priorities are.

Now, if someone comes on here and legitimately doesn't know whether or how much different the S200 is, and people tell that person that it's hardly different at all, that's fine. Someone was seeking information. But for those on the thread who have clearly made up their mind, I don't see what continuing down this discussion accomplishes besides antagonizing people.
[/quote]

And.... there is nothing wrong with your point of view, you just said you want exactly what you want when you want it... so you have to buy custom no matter how you slice it. Titleist is offering DG stuff free of charge... you pick the flex. People or at least me are simply saying why complain about it being S200? What does that matter? If you want something else then you're able to get it custom-- for the same money and in a timely manner. I wouldn't play stock S200 either... my point is most people are OK just buying one from the rack and moving forward... those people aren't gonna be bothered by S2, S3 or S4. Vokey believes in softer shafts in the wedges and makes S200 stock... that's all... For guys that want custom product (like you and I) it doesn't matter if the stock shaft is S200 or 50 gram graphite I'm gonna order what i want. Not sure about anyone else, but my posts have nothing to do with convincing others... simply trying to point out how many options we're given and yet people still complain. Vokey (or any other wedge brand) simply cannot make everyone happy.

[Dizz]

[quote name='PingGuru' timestamp='1381934867' post='8009995']
[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1381931868' post='8009749']
Most players want softer in the wedges... not more heft. If you referring to more weight... OK sure... anybody is gonna be hard pressed to feel the difference between S200 and S300. Vokey believes in softer shafts in the wedges personally as well. For what its worth, having been to these OEM's... something I learned with the wedges is the shaft does not matter numbers wise. The club just has too much loft for the shaft to impact anything other than feel.
[/quote]

So you don't believe the DG Spinner shaft actually adds spin to the ball? I was actually thinking of getting that shaft in the SM5 58K in the spring, but not paying the upcharge if it really doesn't help. I have DG S400 in my SM4 52.
[/quote]

As always-- try it for yourself. In my own testing (human error) they simply don't add enough spin for the results to really be conclusive.

[Isaac_Newton]

[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1381898788' post='8008881']
[quote name='HiSpeed48' timestamp='1381886217' post='8007993']
What's the actual difference between S200 and S300? On TT's website the only difference is 1g of weight.
[/quote]

Just something for guys to whine about. How is it possible to whine about S200 being stock and [b]then reference custom orders for Cleveland and Callaway[/b] that offer "wedge flex" as their stock? Titleist sells more Vokey wedges in probably 3 months than Callaway does all year. You can't please everyone I guess. They offer an incredible amount of stock wedges with awesome stock grinds that will fit 100% of players. Calaway is offering what 4 lofts with 8 total pieces?? I mean 4... compared to Vokey with 9 lofts and 21 different options not including 3 finishes... every loft and 2-3 bounce and grind options in most lofts and we're gonna complain about S200 being stock when you can get any other DG free if you're willing to wait 3 days to get one custom. S200 is offered "stock" because S300 is stock in the players irons and should an AP1 player using the stock XP shafts want to get a stock Vokey the shaft is gonna play just fine. I also don't understand the forged vs cast debate either... the guys on tour have no problem with cast Vokey wedges. Look at the bag pics every week and Vokey leads the field in play going away... by staffers or non staffers.

I just don't get it I guess.... like or dislike Titleist or Vokey but the product and options they put out to retail for $129 is insanely good... in my opinion of course.
[/quote]

I did not reference Cleveland and Callaway because I think they have a better product. My reference specifically inquired how many special orders they receive for S200s. No one plays that shaft. When was the last time you read a post in the Equipment forum where someone wrote about how they were just fitted into the S200, never.

Vokey offers the most grinds in the business. That is their value proposition and they sell a lot of wedges. I have bought several and I am a Titleist fan. I actually think Titleist now has direct access to my bank account; I play ProV1Xs, roll a Scotty, game the 913D2, etc.... But i do have specific issues with their wedge line.

And FWIW, the stock shaft on the MD2 is the S300.

[bph7]

[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1381937566' post='8010251']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1381935670' post='8010073']
As usual, and frustratingly, this "discussion" has turned into the s200 advocates (or those who are vokey fans or indifferent) trying to convince others, who have already indicated that they don't like the s200, that they shouldn't care. This just makes no sense. If you don't mind the s200s, then this discussion has no relevance to you. Just buy the new vokey if you want when it comes out and enjoy it. However, I am tired of being told by people whether I can tell the difference between an s200 or 300 or 400 or whether $129 is a great value for this club anyway. Guess what, it's a personal opinion. I am not trying to say you SHOULD care about the s200, and, similarly, see no point in others trying to convince me that I SHOULDN'T care. My mind, which has been made up about this through years of golf, isn't going to be changed by someone that I have never met in my life posting something about how it's hardly an difference. It's not a knock on anyone, just a realization it's not going to be easy to change my purchasing priorities with a random forum post.

Bottom line, It's pretty clear that different people have different purchasing priorities. I want to get exactly what I want when I want period, the end, when purchasing NEW golf equipment and refuse to compromise in any way. If I have to compromise, I'd prefer to buy used. It's a simple as that. Not everyone is like this, and that is fine. We can have different priorities, and agree to disagree, but there is no point in people posting on here trying to change what other people's priorities are.

Now, if someone comes on here and legitimately doesn't know whether or how much different the S200 is, and people tell that person that it's hardly different at all, that's fine. Someone was seeking information. But for those on the thread who have clearly made up their mind, I don't see what continuing down this discussion accomplishes besides antagonizing people.
[/quote]

And.... there is nothing wrong with your point of view, you just said you want exactly what you want when you want it... so you have to buy custom no matter how you slice it. Titleist is offering DG stuff free of charge... you pick the flex. People or at least me are simply saying why complain about it being S200? What does that matter? If you want something else then you're able to get it custom-- for the same money and in a timely manner. I wouldn't play stock S200 either... my point is most people are OK just buying one from the rack and moving forward... those people aren't gonna be bothered by S2, S3 or S4. Vokey believes in softer shafts in the wedges and makes S200 stock... that's all... For guys that want custom product (like you and I) it doesn't matter if the stock shaft is S200 or 50 gram graphite I'm gonna order what i want. [b]Not sure about anyone else, but my posts have nothing to do with convincing others... simply trying to point out how many options we're given and yet people still complain. Vokey (or any other wedge brand) simply cannot make everyone happy.[/b]
[/quote]

This bolded shows how fundamentally different our views are (and again, nothing wrong with that, but it's important to note). As far as I am concerned, the level of stock, in store, shaft options is insufficient for something they have had 2 years to do. Obviously, you would vehemently disagree with this, but if that's really how I feel, then why shouldn't I complain? And if you really feel that the options are great, it's a good value, and you are fine with the S200, then you have nothing to complain about, and I am certainly not going to try to change your mind and tell you that you shouldn't be happy.

As I said before, my standards for purchasing equipment knew are VERY demanding. Yours seem less so. For this reason, I am probably more likely to complain about this stuff than you are. Also, you are totally right that they cannot make everyone happy: Clearly, they have failed to make me happy at the very least. But that's how it works for companies. You can't please everyone, people are going to complain, you are going to get criticism, and that's fine. It's up to the company to decide how to deal with the criticism. They can respond to it or ignore it. But I certainly don't think that, just because they can't please everyone, we can't voice our dissatisfaction. I think it's important for people to voice their issues with releases if they have them.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1381938583' post='8010351']
...
As I said before, my standards for purchasing equipment knew are VERY demanding. Yours seem less so. For this reason, I am probably more likely to complain about this stuff than you are. Also, you are totally right that [b]they cannot make everyone happy[/b]
....
[/quote]

Very true, which is why a company would have a wonderful custom club department that can solve these issues quickly, easily, and painlessly. As J.W. said, it makes the discussion a non-issue.

Kevin

[bph7]

[quote name='kevcarter' timestamp='1381939038' post='8010395']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1381938583' post='8010351']
...
As I said before, my standards for purchasing equipment knew are VERY demanding. Yours seem less so. For this reason, I am probably more likely to complain about this stuff than you are. Also, you are totally right that [b]they cannot make everyone happy[/b]
....
[/quote]

Very true, which is why a company would have a wonderful custom club department that can solve these issues quickly, easily, and painlessly. As J.W. said, it makes the discussion a non-issue.

Kevin
[/quote]

Again, it's still an issue for me. Maybe not for you. I want the option stock. There would be nothing holding me back from grabbing one in store otherwise. But, I do agree there is not much more to discuss: I am not satisfied with their stock wedge shaft selection, and it appears that others either don't care or think the custom club department can solve the issues. I guess it will just have to be left at that.

[Dizz]

I was physically in attendance at one of the major OEM's when they were doing shaft tests on an Iron Byron. The test concluded that the shaft does not have any influence on launch data because those clubs have so much loft that the loft is controlling the launch and spin. Shaft does however control feel. Vokey believes in softer feeling wedge shafts-- this is something he told me personally when I met him at a PGA Tour event. That is a major reason for them putting S200 in stock wedges... which should be good enough for anyone else. Now, he and Titleist certainly understand that people are going to want other options... so they give you the best, most extensive shaft list of any major OEM. So I'm trying to understand why that would be insufficient for you? You would basically want them to send stock wedges with multiple shafts in stock? That would be an absolute nightmare for controlling SKU's and inventory control would be impossible. Titleist is incredibly fast with custom builds too... every single iron and SM4 wedge I've ordered for a customer this year has shipped out the same day. The longest TVD order I've had is 2 days in house and I've ordered now 8 Hand Ground pieces-- the longest time was 6 days in house and the last two were out the door in 2 days... and those are the Hand Ground program.

I would say my standards for custom golf equipment are as high as anyone else here... so it certainly is not that. I just think there is a certain level of common sense that stocking multiple wedge shafts in a store is impossible when you have 21 different options in 3 different finishes. This is possible with metal woods when there are 2 different models and the heads are adjustable. But when we're talking about wedges, where the shaft only influences feel it just cannot make sense to stock multiple shafts. Also- every single store can order whatever they wish for stock. You can alter your "stock" order to include whatever shafts and grips you want. If you walked into my golf shop right now you'd see 913's on the rack with exotic shafts... you'll see SLDR drivers with all kinds of exotics as well... so that's certainly the retailers choice.

Edit- nevermind I will not waste anymore time typing... wow.

[stuart.f.cohen]

[quote name='bravesgolf' timestamp='1381918866' post='8009175']
[quote name='shootstill' timestamp='1381867711' post='8006249']
[attachment=1913517:Screen Shot 2013-10-15 at 3.06.23 PM.png]
[attachment=1913519:Screen Shot 2013-10-15 at 3.06.42 PM.png]
[/quote]

OMG! are you freakin serious! K grinds in the SM5's! I was just looking at the TVD K grinds and they are sick! Does anyone know if there is much difference between the TVD K grind and the SM5 K grind? The current TVD M grinds seem different to the SM4 M grinds so I'm thinking there will be some difference. Any info would be great guys.

Thanks
[/quote]
I had a M 60 from vokey.com before the sm4's came out and I thought when the M grind on the SM4 that came out it was different from what I had. I used the TVD grind in my 60 this year from Vokey.com and it was great. I am looking at what to get next and I was ready to order the 60 K but maybe I should wait to see what the SM5 60 K will look like. Any info?

[bph7]

JW,

I'll just answer two quick parts with my view: "[color=#282828]So I'm trying to understand why that would be insufficient for you? You would basically want them to send stock wedges with multiple shafts in stock?" To the second question, My answer is "YES" OR just put in the s300 in ALL of them that everyone seems to prefer anyway. [/color][color=#282828]Then the issues with SKU's are gone. [/color][color=#282828] I just see no reason to stick with the status quo of S200 when they could just as easily do S300 and have literally no complaints. [/color]

[color=#282828]"[/color][color=#282828]would say my standards for custom golf equipment are as high as anyone else here... so it certainly is not that." I wasn't talking about custom golf equipment. I was talking about stock. If we were talking about custom, then its a non-issue as you have said. Here's a reason you might not have thought of about why I think stock is important: [/color][color=#282828]One thing that might be different about me is that, because I do buy a lot of lightly used stuff that has come out within the past year to try (some of which I hardly hit at all before reselling), I personally will not be able to find a cheap sm5 with an appropriate shaft as easily. The majority of ones that go for sale are stock, so it makes it harder for me to find what I want. So this does affect me in a more concrete way than others. Should Titleist care about these concerns? Probably not, but it doesn't mean I won't bring them to Titleist's attention. [/color]

[color=#282828]Bottom line is, it can't be both ways: EITHER there is hardly any difference (as you have said before) OR Bob Vokey really believes in a softer flex. If its the former, then why not just put S300 to allay the complaints? If it's the latter, and the S200 is appreciably softer than the S300, then, in that case, would just be too soft for me because with irons I easily fit into x100s.[/color]

[color=#282828]This just proves that individual concerns are always paramount and different with this stuff. [/color]

[schwanman]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1381940471' post='8010527']
JW,

I'll just answer two quick parts with my view: "[color=#282828]So I'm trying to understand why that would be insufficient for you? You would basically want them to send stock wedges with multiple shafts in stock?" To the second question, My answer is "YES" OR just put in the s300 in ALL of them that everyone seems to prefer anyway. [/color][color=#282828]Then the issues with SKU's are gone. [/color][color=#282828] I just see no reason to stick with the status quo of S200 when they could just as easily do S300 and have literally no complaints. [/color]

[color=#282828]"[/color][color=#282828]would say my standards for custom golf equipment are as high as anyone else here... so it certainly is not that." I wasn't talking about custom golf equipment. I was talking about stock. If we were talking about custom, then its a non-issue as you have said. Here's a reason you might not have thought of about why I think stock is important: [/color][color=#282828]One thing that might be different about me is that, because I do buy a lot of lightly used stuff that has come out within the past year to try (some of which I hardly hit at all before reselling), I personally will not be able to find a cheap sm5 with an appropriate shaft as easily. The majority of ones that go for sale are stock, so it makes it harder for me to find what I want. So this does affect me in a more concrete way than others. Should Titleist care about these concerns? Probably not, but it doesn't mean I won't bring them to Titleist's attention. [/color]

[color=#282828]Bottom line is, it can't be both ways: EITHER there is hardly any difference (as you have said before) OR Bob Vokey really believes in a softer flex. If its the former, then why not just put S300 to allay the complaints? If it's the latter, and the S200 is appreciably softer than the S300, then, in that case, would just be too soft for me because with irons I easily fit into x100s.[/color]

[color=#282828]This just proves that individual concerns are always paramount and different with this stuff. [/color]
[/quote]

You make no sense. They give you custom options that take very little time to special order - problem solved. I love Nippon Pro Modus shafts in my AP2's - oh darnit Titleist doesn't offer them stock. I don't want AP2's now because they won't put the shaft I want stock in them? SPECIAL ORDER THEM! If you're so demanding about your equipment then I would think there are very few stock offerings that will fit your needs and you'll have to order them. I buy nothing stock but I get exactly what I want with custom options. What more can you ask for?

[schwanman]

Oh by the way, there is not guarantee an S200 is going to play softer than an S300. They are the same shafts that have went through the same process at the same time and are simply weight sorted after the fact so they don't have to be as precise in their quality control. Odds are the S200 will play ever so slightly softer than an S300 because of the reduced weight but it is not always the case.

[bph7]

[quote name='schwanman' timestamp='1381941001' post='8010573']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1381940471' post='8010527']
JW,

I'll just answer two quick parts with my view: "[color=#282828]So I'm trying to understand why that would be insufficient for you? You would basically want them to send stock wedges with multiple shafts in stock?" To the second question, My answer is "YES" OR just put in the s300 in ALL of them that everyone seems to prefer anyway. [/color][color=#282828]Then the issues with SKU's are gone. [/color][color=#282828] I just see no reason to stick with the status quo of S200 when they could just as easily do S300 and have literally no complaints. [/color]

[color=#282828]"[/color][color=#282828]would say my standards for custom golf equipment are as high as anyone else here... so it certainly is not that." I wasn't talking about custom golf equipment. I was talking about stock. If we were talking about custom, then its a non-issue as you have said. Here's a reason you might not have thought of about why I think stock is important: [/color][color=#282828]One thing that might be different about me is that, because I do buy a lot of lightly used stuff that has come out within the past year to try (some of which I hardly hit at all before reselling), I personally will not be able to find a cheap sm5 with an appropriate shaft as easily. The majority of ones that go for sale are stock, so it makes it harder for me to find what I want. So this does affect me in a more concrete way than others. Should Titleist care about these concerns? Probably not, but it doesn't mean I won't bring them to Titleist's attention. [/color]

[color=#282828]Bottom line is, it can't be both ways: EITHER there is hardly any difference (as you have said before) OR Bob Vokey really believes in a softer flex. If its the former, then why not just put S300 to allay the complaints? If it's the latter, and the S200 is appreciably softer than the S300, then, in that case, would just be too soft for me because with irons I easily fit into x100s.[/color]

[color=#282828]This just proves that individual concerns are always paramount and different with this stuff. [/color]
[/quote]

[b]You make no sense. [/b] They give you custom options that take very little time to special order - problem solved. I love Nippon Pro Modus shafts in my AP2's - oh darnit Titleist doesn't offer them stock. I don't want AP2's now because they won't put the shaft I want stock in them? SPECIAL ORDER THEM! If you're so demanding about your equipment then I would think there are very few stock offerings that will fit your needs and you'll have to order them. I buy nothing stock but I get exactly what I want with custom options. [b]What more can you ask for?[/b]
[/quote]

I appreciate the pointless personal attack after I very clearly stated my issues. As for what more can I ask for, see any of my posts. Basically, I specifically am asking for the s300, the gold standard for standard steal shafts in the industry, to be stock, as opposed to the s200. They have chosen not to do that, and I am complaining.

[Dizz]

I don't do personal attacks but I see your deal now. You want exactly what you want how you want it but don't wanna pay for it. Much easier to get stock wedges cheap because usually guys ordering are gonna play them. I totally get it now... Was beginning to think I was losing my mind. Nothing wrong with what you're doing as long as you enjoy yourself. Titleist is not really choosing stock shafts in concern for the secondary market... And honestly there is very little complaining against S200 except your random post here. Good luck bp!

[bph7]

[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1381941691' post='8010645']
I don't do personal attacks but I see your deal now. You want exactly what you want how you want it but don't wanna pay for it. Much easier to get stock wedges cheap because usually guys ordering are gonna play them. I totally get it now... Was beginning to think I was losing my mind. Nothing wrong with what you're doing as long as you enjoy yourself.
[/quote]

Wasn't accusing you of personal attack, it was the guy after you, sorry if that wasn't clear. But, yes, you have pretty much accurately encapsulated my position with one small caveat: It's not that I don't want to pay for it, it's that specifically I don't want to pay $130 dollars for a cast wedge with stock s200. If I want to go custom, I would probably go to fairwaygolf and get a yururi forged raw gekku with the exact grip and shaft that I wanted, it would cost me $135ish after shipping, and I'd still get it months before an SM5. Once you get up to the mid-100s price point I just think better custom options open up.

Anyway, though, let's just agree to disagree and not hijack the thread any further. Your posts have been well-thought out and informative, and I respect your views, but they are obviously very different from mine on this topic.

[swizbeatz]

Well getting it months before an sm5 shouldn't matter, we all know they aren't available yet. Do you think your custom order would come faster than a sm5 with s300? My special order tvd was at my door in 5 days. I do agree with your point about the used wedges being harder to find in your preferred specs but I think your well in the minority to care about that. Not that you aren't well within your rights to voice your complaints here, just seems extreme.

[StarFleetGolfer]

So you'd rather have one grind and bounce option available with s300 vs dozens of grind/bounce and finish options with s200? Makes total sense

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[/quote]

With the addition of the K grind to the lineup as well as continuing the M grind (as already offered on the SM4) I wonder if they are going to do away with the TVD lineup on Wedgeworks? I heard that they were adding more grind options for 2014, looks like a solid lineup. I hope the SM5's are a little smaller than the SM4's. I find that the TVD head is a smaller shape and looks better to my eye.
[/quote]

I wouldn't expect the TVD lineup to disappear - just fill the gaps of the stock SM5 lineup.

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[/quote]

No 56.08 offering? That's disappointing.
[/quote]

I feel the same way - we'll probably have to go through wedgeworks to get this.

[HiSpeed48]

[quote name='Golfjunki71' timestamp='1381942906' post='8010793']
So you'd rather have one grind and bounce option available with s300 vs dozens of grind/bounce and finish options with s200? Makes total sense
[/quote]

Yeah I guess Bob Vokey is moving in the wrong direction... He should offer one grind/bounce option but with dozens of difference stock shafts. Total sense.

[jmck]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1381938583' post='8010351']

This bolded shows how fundamentally different our views are (and again, nothing wrong with that, but it's important to note). As far as I am concerned, the level of stock, in store, shaft options is insufficient for something they have had 2 years to do. Obviously, you would vehemently disagree with this, but if that's really how I feel, then why shouldn't I complain? And if you really feel that the options are great, it's a good value, and you are fine with the S200, then you have nothing to complain about, and I am certainly not going to try to change your mind and tell you that you shouldn't be happy.

As I said before, my standards for purchasing equipment knew are VERY demanding. Yours seem less so. For this reason, I am probably more likely to complain about this stuff than you are. Also, you are totally right that they cannot make everyone happy: [b] Clearly, they have failed to make me happy at the very least.[/b] But that's how it works for companies. You can't please everyone, people are going to complain, you are going to get criticism, and that's fine. It's up to the company to decide how to deal with the criticism. They can respond to it or ignore it. But I certainly don't think that, just because they can't please everyone, we can't voice our dissatisfaction. I think it's important for people to voice their issues with releases if they have them.
[/quote]

So would stock S300 make you happy?

[markheardjr]

Not really sure why all the fuss over the shaft, installing a wedge shaft is about the easiest thing to do. Buy 1 S400 and pull/glue to the new wedge. Heck, go buy a beat up wedge in the $10 bin and you don't even need to cut it to length. Anyways, Interested in a K grind but they are kind of boring and not much different than the Cleveland RTX which you can get for half the price on fleabay. Nevermind, no K grind in the 56? Weak sauce.

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[/quote]

Where did you find this??
[/quote]

Interwebs


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OMG! are you freakin serious! K grinds in the SM5's! I was just looking at the TVD K grinds and they are sick! Does anyone know if there is much difference between the TVD K grind and the SM5 K grind? The current TVD M grinds seem different to the SM4 M grinds so I'm thinking there will be some difference. Any info would be great guys.

Thanks
[/quote]

Someone speak up and correct me if I'm wrong... but here is my take on the different grinds in relation to the new SM5.

Even though Vokey has a set list of grinds [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/860076-vokey-sm5/page__st__90__p__7766925#entry7766925"](link to my previous post about Vokey grinds)[/url] that you can put on your wedges, they will play different from one club to the next. If I have an M grind on a TVD wedge vs. a custom M grind on a 200 series wedge - they will play different. Think of it like this - if you get the same haircut as your neighbor, it will look different because your head is shaped different and you're balding.

Will the SM5 M and K grind play different than the TVD-M or TVD-K? Probably. Why? [s]Because that's the way Vokey wanted it[/s]. Because the head itself is different, regardless of grind.

Sure there are more stock grind options coming out with the SM5, but I don't suspect the TVD line will change (it will continue to supplement the stock offerings) - unless the SM5 grooves are implemented into the club like the SM4 grooves were.


Just my .02

[shootstill]

[quote name='HiSpeed48' timestamp='1381944059' post='8010917']
[quote name='Golfjunki71' timestamp='1381942906' post='8010793']
So you'd rather have one grind and bounce option available with s300 vs dozens of grind/bounce and finish options with s200? Makes total sense
[/quote]

Yeah I guess Bob Vokey is moving in the wrong direction... He should offer one grind/bounce option but with dozens of difference stock shafts. Total sense.
[/quote]

I hope you guys are being facetious...

and if you're not...

Look at it from the business perspective - the lineup serves way more customers by offering a wide range of lofts/bounce/grinds/finishes, than it does to offer X amount of shafts for the multiple configurations. Would you rather pay the premium and wait for the custom order to get your special finish and preferred grind/bounce... or would you rather be able to pick up the pre-configured head from any stock location, and switch your shafts locally, or more likely, DIY?

If you're in the small minority (who am I kidding, this is GolfWRX, not a minigolf course) that says yes to wanting everything custom - then great, WedgeWorks is for [s]you[/s] us.