Vokey SM5 Wedge Photos: shot at the 2013 Shriners

[bph7]

[quote name='jmck' timestamp='1381944083' post='8010919']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1381938583' post='8010351']
This bolded shows how fundamentally different our views are (and again, nothing wrong with that, but it's important to note). As far as I am concerned, the level of stock, in store, shaft options is insufficient for something they have had 2 years to do. Obviously, you would vehemently disagree with this, but if that's really how I feel, then why shouldn't I complain? And if you really feel that the options are great, it's a good value, and you are fine with the S200, then you have nothing to complain about, and I am certainly not going to try to change your mind and tell you that you shouldn't be happy.

As I said before, my standards for purchasing equipment knew are VERY demanding. Yours seem less so. For this reason, I am probably more likely to complain about this stuff than you are. Also, you are totally right that they cannot make everyone happy: [b] Clearly, they have failed to make me happy at the very least.[/b] But that's how it works for companies. You can't please everyone, people are going to complain, you are going to get criticism, and that's fine. It's up to the company to decide how to deal with the criticism. They can respond to it or ignore it. But I certainly don't think that, just because they can't please everyone, we can't voice our dissatisfaction. I think it's important for people to voice their issues with releases if they have them.
[/quote]

So would stock S300 make you happy?
[/quote]

Yes.

[bph7]

[quote name='Golfjunki71' timestamp='1381942906' post='8010793']
So you'd rather have one grind and bounce option available with s300 vs dozens of grind/bounce and finish options with s200? Makes total sense
[/quote]

You could do both. Or just put the S3 stock instead of the S2, which I still think would be the most logical choice.

[kurob]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1381940471' post='8010527']
[color=#282828]Here's a reason you might not have thought of about why I think stock is important: [/color][color=#282828]One thing that might be different about me is that, because [b]I do buy a lot of lightly used stuff that has come out within the past year to try (some of which I hardly hit at all before reselling), I personally will not be able to find a cheap sm5 with an appropriate shaft as easily. The majority of ones that go for sale are stock, so it makes it harder for me to find what I want.[/b] So this does affect me in a more concrete way than others. Should Titleist care about these concerns? Probably not, but it doesn't mean I won't bring them to Titleist's attention. [/color]
[/quote]
Given that quote, you can probably understand that Titleist wouldn't be terribly interested in catering to you, right?

[shankman92]

s300 s400 s200 whatever I dont care.

I would like S300 for stock as it's really a mental thing but Ive been playing off the rack vokeys for years without a problem so whatever.

[bph7]

[quote name='kurob' timestamp='1381949544' post='8011467']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1381940471' post='8010527']
[color=#282828]Here's a reason you might not have thought of about why I think stock is important: [/color][color=#282828]One thing that might be different about me is that, because [b]I do buy a lot of lightly used stuff that has come out within the past year to try (some of which I hardly hit at all before reselling), I personally will not be able to find a cheap sm5 with an appropriate shaft as easily. The majority of ones that go for sale are stock, so it makes it harder for me to find what I want.[/b] So this does affect me in a more concrete way than others. Should Titleist care about these concerns? Probably not, but it doesn't mean I won't bring them to Titleist's attention. [/color]
[/quote]
Given that quote, you can probably understand that Titleist wouldn't be terribly interested in catering to you, right?
[/quote]

Yep, sure can. Similarly, I am not terribly interested in catering to them either (by custom ordering or reshafting), so I guess me and Titleist are unlikely to do business on wedges this year . This is why I put the disclaimer for people to move along in the first post about this if you didn't mind the S200. My mind wasn't going to be changed, I already know all the facts, I just wanted to let my thoughts be known on the S200 and move on.

[Rene Goulet]

At least this time around the LEFTIES get the RAW BLACK version which we didn't get in the SM4 lineup. Thanks Bob, looking forward to getting a couple of these into my bag for 2014.

[prorobo]

Many pros run a slightly softer flex in their wedges versus their irons (s400 versus x100). So that falls in line with Titleist's standard S300 offering in their irons. Maybe the guys here complaining that they want the exact same thing in their wedges are just in the minority or are simply "too strong" for manufacturers' standard stiff irons to slightly softer wedge setups.

[Dbogey]

i predict new wedges going in the bag! 50* 54*M 58*K wonder how that raw black finish will hold up?

[kurob]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1381950189' post='8011513']
[quote name='kurob' timestamp='1381949544' post='8011467']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1381940471' post='8010527']
[color=#282828]Here's a reason you might not have thought of about why I think stock is important: [/color][color=#282828]One thing that might be different about me is that, because [b]I do buy a lot of lightly used stuff that has come out within the past year to try (some of which I hardly hit at all before reselling), I personally will not be able to find a cheap sm5 with an appropriate shaft as easily. The majority of ones that go for sale are stock, so it makes it harder for me to find what I want.[/b] So this does affect me in a more concrete way than others. Should Titleist care about these concerns? Probably not, but it doesn't mean I won't bring them to Titleist's attention. [/color]
[/quote]
Given that quote, you can probably understand that Titleist wouldn't be terribly interested in catering to you, right?
[/quote]

Yep, sure can. Similarly, I am not terribly interested in catering to them either (by custom ordering or reshafting), so I guess me and Titleist are unlikely to do business on wedges this year . This is why I put the disclaimer for people to move along in the first post about this if you didn't mind the S200. My mind wasn't going to be changed, I already know all the facts, I just wanted to let my thoughts be known on the S200 and move on.
[/quote]
Are you doing any business with any companies on NEW wedges this year or all used?

[mmack067]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1381942157' post='8010707']
[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1381941691' post='8010645']
I don't do personal attacks but I see your deal now. You want exactly what you want how you want it but don't wanna pay for it. Much easier to get stock wedges cheap because usually guys ordering are gonna play them. I totally get it now... Was beginning to think I was losing my mind. Nothing wrong with what you're doing as long as you enjoy yourself.
[/quote]

Wasn't accusing you of personal attack, it was the guy after you, sorry if that wasn't clear. But, yes, you have pretty much accurately encapsulated my position with one small caveat: It's not that I don't want to pay for it, it's that specifically I don't want to pay $130 dollars for a cast wedge with stock s200. If I want to go custom, I would probably go to fairwaygolf and get a yururi forged raw gekku with the exact grip and shaft that I wanted, it would cost me $135ish after shipping, and I'd still get it months before an SM5. Once you get up to the mid-100s price point I just think better custom options open up.

Anyway, though, let's just agree to disagree and not hijack the thread any further. Your posts have been well-thought out and informative, and I respect your views, but they are obviously very different from mine on this topic.
[/quote]

But you would pay $129 for a cast wedge with an S300? If so, just order it custom through Titleist, not fairwaygolf. There won't be an up charge and it'll be to your shop in days. Is the cast head a problem now too?

Since you fit into X100, do you also have a problem with those not being available off the rack? Seems to me that my X100s are always custom orders and not out on display at the local retailer. Alternatively, if you're buying on the secondary market get the heads you want and put whatever shaft in that you see fit.

[bph7]

[quote name='kurob' timestamp='1381951486' post='8011615']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1381950189' post='8011513']
[quote name='kurob' timestamp='1381949544' post='8011467']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1381940471' post='8010527']
[color=#282828]Here's a reason you might not have thought of about why I think stock is important: [/color][color=#282828]One thing that might be different about me is that, because [b]I do buy a lot of lightly used stuff that has come out within the past year to try (some of which I hardly hit at all before reselling), I personally will not be able to find a cheap sm5 with an appropriate shaft as easily. The majority of ones that go for sale are stock, so it makes it harder for me to find what I want.[/b] So this does affect me in a more concrete way than others. Should Titleist care about these concerns? Probably not, but it doesn't mean I won't bring them to Titleist's attention. [/color]
[/quote]
Given that quote, you can probably understand that Titleist wouldn't be terribly interested in catering to you, right?
[/quote]

Yep, sure can. Similarly, I am not terribly interested in catering to them either (by custom ordering or reshafting), so I guess me and Titleist are unlikely to do business on wedges this year . This is why I put the disclaimer for people to move along in the first post about this if you didn't mind the S200. My mind wasn't going to be changed, I already know all the facts, I just wanted to let my thoughts be known on the S200 and move on.
[/quote]
Are you doing any business with any companies on NEW wedges this year or all used?
[/quote]

Yes. What I generally do is buy used wedges to have them for extended tryout periods, then get fit and go all out and buy when I really find something I like. I currently have TMAG xfts (52,56,60), sm4 58, gorge 56, MD2 60, Yururi 53 and 57, a used set of 4 scors (currently in the bag). I will probably just be trying all these with anything else I acquire. Will get fit and buy new wedges once the dust has settled with all the new OEM releases next year. Scors are currently in the lead, although I'd prefer prefer an actual forging (not form forged). Other things I want to try this offseason are Fourteen and Mizuno. The thing is, I only buy the used stuff if its exactly what I want, so it's just not exceedingly likely that I will find a used Sm5 (since it won't have the shaft I want) very quickly after release in the shaft I want for cheap enough.

Also, as you might be able to tell from the amount of wedges I have, I have no real brand allegiances when it comes to wedges. Something as small as the s200s is more than enough for me to look elsewhere. I fully understand that MOST consumers are not this way. But I really prefer not to support a manufacturer buying something new unless they really floor me. For instance, I am really looking forward to the SLDR fairways because of the stock TP tour spec 8.3, which I think is an awesome shaft choice. Again that's just me and my buying particularities. Not sure why so much of this thread seems to be interested in my buying preferences, but since the topic seems to be so popular, I will remain on the floor to answer any and all questions about which clubs I like and which I dont

[bph7]

[quote name='mmack067' timestamp='1381952125' post='8011681']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1381942157' post='8010707']
[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1381941691' post='8010645']
I don't do personal attacks but I see your deal now. You want exactly what you want how you want it but don't wanna pay for it. Much easier to get stock wedges cheap because usually guys ordering are gonna play them. I totally get it now... Was beginning to think I was losing my mind. Nothing wrong with what you're doing as long as you enjoy yourself.
[/quote]

Wasn't accusing you of personal attack, it was the guy after you, sorry if that wasn't clear. But, yes, you have pretty much accurately encapsulated my position with one small caveat: It's not that I don't want to pay for it, it's that specifically I don't want to pay $130 dollars for a cast wedge with stock s200. If I want to go custom, I would probably go to fairwaygolf and get a yururi forged raw gekku with the exact grip and shaft that I wanted, it would cost me $135ish after shipping, and I'd still get it months before an SM5. Once you get up to the mid-100s price point I just think better custom options open up.

Anyway, though, let's just agree to disagree and not hijack the thread any further. Your posts have been well-thought out and informative, and I respect your views, but they are obviously very different from mine on this topic.
[/quote]

But you would pay $129 for a cast wedge with an S300? If so, just order it custom through Titleist, not fairwaygolf. There won't be an up charge and it'll be to your shop in days. Is the cast head a problem now too?

[b]Since you fit into X100[/b], do you also have a problem with those not being available off the rack? Seems to me that my X100s are always custom orders and not out on display at the local retailer. Alternatively, if you're buying on the secondary market get the heads you want and put whatever shaft in that you see fit.
[/quote]
Yes, I certainly do. I have two sets of gripped x100s (one in clubs and one not) and my buddy can shaft clubs so I usually exercise the second option you presented, just buying the heads and having them shafted.

[is1ander]

I think your assumption that the majority of golfers prefer S300 instead of S200 in wedges is a big part of the problem. Titleist likely uses S200 intentionally because it offers better performance and feel for customers who buy Vokeys OTR. Why would they then cater to an admitted minority and have the overall performance and feel of their wedges and their customer satisfaction decrease?

And let's not get into the cast vs forged wedge feel. We all know many cast Vokeys are played by ams and by pros who are sponsored by other wedge makers, many of whom make forged wedges.

[bph7]

[quote name='is1ander' timestamp='1381954412' post='8011829']
I think your assumption that the majority of golfers prefer S300 instead of S200 in wedges is a big part of the problem. Titleist likely uses S200 intentionally because it offers better performance and feel for customers who buy Vokeys OTR. [b]Why would they then cater to an admitted minority and have the overall performance and feel of their wedges and their customer satisfaction decrease? [/b]

And let's not get into the cast vs forged wedge feel. We all know many cast Vokeys are played by ams and by pros who are sponsored by other wedge makers, many of whom make forged wedges.
[/quote]

What is an "admitted minority"? I don't think I have ever heard a single person say they wish they had wedge flex or S200 in a shaft. Most people buying off the rack couldn't care less. The ones who do care almost always want s300 or 400. Why wouldn't you cater to the players who actually care, when the others couldn't care less either way and are unlikely to notice?

[is1ander]

Did you not say you were the minority? [color=#282828] That would make you the admitted minority.[/color]

[color=#282828]1. "[/color][color=#282828] Most people buying off the rack couldn't care less." They may not care about the label but it's highly likely they do notice the difference in play if Titleist intentionally chooses S200.[/color]

[color=#282828]2. "The ones who do care almost always want s300 or 400." And you know this how?[/color]

[color=#282828]3. "[/color][color=#282828] Why wouldn't you cater to the players who actually care, when the others couldn't care less either way and are unlikely to notice?" See #1.[/color]

[bph7]

I admitted that I was in the minority in how I purchased clubs, not in what shaft I wanted. Also, whether I "admit" I am in the minority or not is irrelevant, I either am or I'm not.

I had a long response but once I saw this quote, "[color=#282828]They may not care about the label but it's highly likely they do notice the difference in play if Titleist intentionally chooses S200," I now realize the futility of all of this. This entire thread has had people talking about how no one could tell the difference between s200 and s300, and now, when it benefits your argument, you are taking the stance that a amateur who buys off the rack WOULD be able to tell the difference between an s2 and s3, when they wouldnt even have any reason to believe the shaft changed (because, again, they pay no attention to the shaft) Do you see why this is not a persuasive way to make a point? [/color]

[is1ander]

What others say has nothing to do with me. Both they and you could be wrong. Think about that, read over my posts again and let me know.

[TerranceOSU]

Anyone expect much difference in my setup if I were to go to the SM5's?

[size=4]Currently playing a set of 56-60 SM4 TVD M grinds.......... possibly going to the stock SM5 M grind.[/size]

[bph7]

[quote name='is1ander' timestamp='1381957316' post='8012071']
What others say has nothing to do with me. Both they and you could be wrong. Think about that, read over my posts again and let me know.
[/quote]

Fair enough. You are correct, I was imparting what others have said onto you improperly. Your points were consistent. I think Titleist would have good reasons to go with the s3, and yet will acknowledge there are good reasons why they would stay with the s200 (ie because bob vokey likes softer flex etc). Not sure what else there is to say, I guess we just disagree. That's fine with me, and where I expected this to end up anyway. When I made the original post, I was looking to see how many felt similarly, not to argue with those who didn't. Maybe I should've started a new thread, but where else is better to talk everything SM5, both good and bad, then this thread?

[is1ander]

It's all good. Thanks for making the effort to see my side.

Now let's get back to the fun stuff. I'm pumped about the K grind and can't wait to try it out in a 56. I play KBS Tour in my irons and PX in my wedges and actually prefer the feel of PX, haha.

[Big Ben]

Not sure if it's been asked but has Vokey modified or advanced the grooves in anyway or are the changes grind and cosmetic? Thanks boys...BB

[bph7]

I can't believe I am about to say this, but through all this posting in the thread, I kept seeing the pictures of the sm5's as I was going through the thread, and man, I really have to say, does that black one look slick. So clean. Couple that with me having wanted to try the K for awhile, and the fact that I always impulsively buy wedges, if I end up holding a Black 58 or 60 K in my hands, I'm probably gonna buy it, S200 or not lol. Just wanted to be honest with you guys, the damn thing grew on me I guess. This being said, I still stand behind all my s200 comments

[swizbeatz]

You sound like you've gone through a few wedges, what's your game like? I had a 60k but found something better for me. I think the K excels at 90% of shots though and for a 2 wedge setup I'd try a 58k for sure.

[JaxBeachNole]

So is that fourth pic the Tour Chrome? Looks more like the satin finish on the irons.

[bph7]

[quote name='swizbeatz' timestamp='1381967718' post='8012951']
You sound like you've gone through a few wedges, what's your game like? I had a 60k but found something better for me. I think the K excels at 90% of shots though and for a 2 wedge setup I'd try a 58k for sure.
[/quote]

Spent most of a year pounding wedges while working really hard on remaking my swing, so I went through them at a very fast rate compared to normal... Also buy a bunch used so they aren't gonna last as long. The handicap computer would tell you that I am a 5.7, but my home course has what I consider to be a ridiculously inflated rating so I bet that I wouldn't travel at that low a number. Swing changes are starting to take hold and once I figure out how to hit more than a third of the fairways I want to get lower fast (was 2.9 at 15 but then never improved then college happened and I basically didn't play for years lol). I'd be willing to stack up my wedge game with anyone "non-plus" cap tho!

[JaxBeachNole]

[quote name='swizbeatz' timestamp='1381967718' post='8012951']
You sound like you've gone through a few wedges, what's your game like? I had a 60k but found something better for me. I think the K excels at 90% of shots though and for a 2 wedge setup I'd try a 58k for sure.
[/quote]

I had 60K but them I got married, heyo

[PZero]

I highly doubt many here about tell the difference between S200 and S300 in a wedge.

[Caesar Palache]

there are so many long winded responses in this thread that i cannot follow it. holy crap its 3 pictures.

with that being said, i really really like the look of the SM5, clean and love the subtle beveled edges.

[noblades4me]

I can't see the black
IF I never see another post about s200 shafts in vokey wedges it will be too soon.

[Super Tuna]

[quote name='Roland ' timestamp='1381845768' post='8004253']
I managed to get a look at the spec sheet for the new SM5's this morning. Three finishes. The raw black looks pretty good. Lofts from 46 to 62. Grinds: F, K, M and T I think. Not 100%
[/quote]

Perfect. A colour/finish to suit most people, a grind for everything and they're so much cleaner looking. I love my Vokey's but wasn't a huge fan of how busy they were. These dial it back nicely.

The grind wheel on the toe is a nice touch.