Bandon Dunes vs Pebble Beach...

[mringwelski]

Pebble may have some history. It may have hosted many majors and PGA events throughout history. Bandon has awoken caddie programs and brought links golf to America with a bang. Not to mention the highest ranked concentration of top ranked courses in the country.

 

My vote: Pebble...is way overrated. Bandon Dunes is the place to play golf on the west coast.

[Texsport]

Absolutely agree!

Pebble Beach has a number of holes which are very pedestrian. Without the ocean, and history, it wouldn't be anything special.

I have spoken to several magazine course raters who all prefer the Bandon courses over Pebble Beach.

If it weren't for the possibility of also playing Spyglass, Olympic, and San Francisco Golf Club, I won't likely ever return to Pebble Beach.

I Believe that all 4 Bandon courses are better than Pebble Beach, and that both Pacific Dunes and Bandon Trails are better than Bandon Dunes, because, as the developer has explained, and later Bandon architect, Tom Doak, have explained - Bandon Dunes was first, and tested the concept of whether golfers would like links golf, especially if walking only was the policy.

Once proven valid, each successive architect has strived to go beyond the Bandon Dunes course design in beauty and quality of playing experience.


Texsport

[deadsolid...shank]

Never been to Bandon so I can't speak to that.

But Bandon is never going to approach PB in a historical context. There is something special about standing in the same spot where Jack, Tiger, and Watson hit shots from.

From everything I've read it is an 100% consensus, everyone who has been there raves about Bandon, it must be incredible. But I would still wager that if you polled hardcore golfers and offered them a one time trip, Pebble or Bandon, PB would win by a considerable margin.

Now if they played both, I wouldn't place a bet on where they would choose to return to.

[mringwelski]

Mmm I disagree. I think a hardcore golfer would appreciate a resort that had nothing else but the golfer's experience taken into consideration. Bandon Dunes isn't going anywhere unless a tsunami takes it out (Ring of Fire has to blow sometime) and will go down in history as something much more and different then Pebble. Bandon Dunes is a different type of golf retreat. Mike Kieser made sure all four courses were built with the golfer in mind rather then a few future tournaments or a real estate development. Dream golf sounds cliche, but its very real when you're surrounded by nothing but ocean, sand dunes and gorse. There isn't any houses, cart paths, or signs on the tee boxes to pollute the course with unnecessary garbage. It's not only the way golf was meant to be but it's also the way golf SHOULD be.

[Texsport]

I'm not into hero worship.

The fact that Pebble has held a lot of tournaments has more to do with political connections at the USGA and PGA, and Bing Crosby sponsoring a tournament there for decades, than the quality of the courses.

Bandon isn't a logical tournament site anyway. The area demographics ( sparce population within 100 miles ), the remoteness of the place, and a lack of sufficient accommodations to handle a PGA tournament sized crowd.

It wasn't built to hold tournament's!

It was built as the supreme golfing experience for players.

I'm into playing golf myself, rather than watching others do it, and the Bandon courses make Pebble Beach seem very ordinary if you have played them all.

Texsport

[DJFRY5]

Both are great Venues that I very feel fortunate to have played, but the only things that they have in common are being extremely well known and being on the ocean. Everything else about them couldn't be more different. If you're a golf purist you'd probably prefer Brandon, but both places are very special. I would hate to have to choose between a trip to Pebble or Bandon. I really think it just comes down to personal preference... If you're playing at either place you're damn lucky.

[kidcardio]

[quote name='DJFRY5' timestamp='1384532775' post='8153450']
Both are great Venues that I very feel fortunate to have played, but the only things that they have in common are being extremely well known and being on the ocean. Everything else about them couldn't be more different. If you're a golf purist you'd probably prefer Brandon, but both places are very special. I would hate to have to choose between a trip to Pebble or Bandon. I really think it just comes down to personal preference... If you're playing at either place you're damn lucky.
[/quote]

+1

[poppyhillsguy]

Having played Pebble numerously times, but never Bandon I can't have an opinion on this one. I really need to get to Bandon!

[sharkiesj]

I've played PB 4 times and have been to Bandon 3 times although I have not played the new Preserve Course par 3.

Both are exceptional but they are very different. PB was built in a different era, with different expectations. Bandon was built and shaped to give golfers the ultimate trip experience in every way. History does play a part in the experience at Pebble and while some people embrace that, others loathe it.

Bandon is a different animal. "True" links golf and firm conditions make for different kinds of shot selection and style. Although if you'd ask Scottish or Irishman what they thought of Bandon they'd probably go "Meh, we've got nicer courses back home", which Americans would take as obviously insulting.

I think hardcore golfers would prefer to play Bandon vs PB. It's hard for me to say that growing up an 1 1/2 hours from PB but golfers nowadays could care less about history. It's all about give me, give me, give me more and Bandon caters to that gluttony in spades. That being said if one could open up the gates and expand the area a bit and we could play CPC, the Preserve, SFGC, Olympic, Cal Club as a previous poster noted, then I'd never feel the need to go to Bandon.

Of course, in spite of all the name-dropping of said clubs, not a single one of them plays like Bandon! !

[oregongolf]

The only way I would put Pebble ahead of Bandon is if you've never played it, or you got to play everything else there too. I don't even think it's the second best course at Pebble Beach.

Bandon, in its entirety, is just a better package.

There are very few places where I would feel special to walk the same grounds as some of the legends and a place anyone can pay 500 bones to do it, certainly isn't one of them.

[mctrees02]

[quote name='jon2' timestamp='1384550231' post='8154850']

There are very few places where I would feel special to walk the same grounds as some of the legends and a place anyone can pay 500 bones to do it, certainly isn't one of them.
[/quote]
Would you pay $500 to play:
Cypress Point
Augusta National
Pine Valley
Merion
NGLA
Shinnecock
Oakmont
Winged Foot
Fishers Island

We should all feel fortunate that $500 grants access to Pebble Beach. That is certainly not the case with the vast majority of best courses in America. Access to those requires some combination of money, genetics, social connections, influence and or damn good fortune.

[poppyhillsguy]

Would you pay $500 to play:
Cypress Point - No (already played it)
Augusta National - Yes
Pine Valley - No
Merion - No
NGLA - No
Shinnecock - No
Oakmont - No
Winged Foot - No
Fishers Island - No

[mringwelski]

235 for Pacific and 130 for a replay sounds better to me

[mringwelski]

Not to mention if you can...which is a decent sized IF...you can play Pac, Bandon, and Old Mac for 365 if you can play them in between sun up and sun down.

[2putttom]

[quote name='mringwelski' timestamp='1384523937' post='8152682']
Pebble may have some history. It may have hosted many majors and PGA events throughout history. Bandon has awoken caddie programs and brought links golf to America with a bang. Not to mention the highest ranked concentration of top ranked courses in the country.

My vote: Pebble...is way overrated. Bandon Dunes is the place to play golf on the west coast.
[/quote] I have been fortunate of being able to play both sites. Pebble is a spa resort type facility. I spent over a grand while enjoying a round of golf and my wife took in the spa. Pebble Ocean side holes are beautiful. The remainder of the course is lined with houses, not my thing when playing a "links" style course. I had fun, played well and will go back again, But; for the shot quality and rustic beauty I prefer Bandon. Not a house in sight for miles. No dogs barking, no husband and wife yelling at one another in the back yard and no sound of cars running up and down the road. At Bandon you can hear a cricket fart a mile away.

[oregongolf]

[quote name='mctrees02' timestamp='1384618126' post='8157998']
[quote name='jon2' timestamp='1384550231' post='8154850']
There are very few places where I would feel special to walk the same grounds as some of the legends and a place anyone can pay 500 bones to do it, certainly isn't one of them.
[/quote]
Would you pay $500 to play:
Cypress Point
Augusta National
Pine Valley
Merion
NGLA
Shinnecock
Oakmont
Winged Foot
Fishers Island

We should all feel fortunate that $500 grants access to Pebble Beach. That is certainly not the case with the vast majority of best courses in America. Access to those requires some combination of money, genetics, social connections, influence and or damn good fortune.
[/quote]

For most of those, yes... and that's my point. I'm not saying Pebble Beach isn't great, just saying it's overrated (especially for $500) after you've played it more than once.

[Mob]

I agree with a lot of what has been said. I have played them both twice and it is almost hard to compare them as they are completely different. Pebble is a great resort style trip with some very pretty holes along the water, and then some very unremarkable filler holes on the inland side, lined by ridiculous homes. At Bandon there is nothing but golf; but the golf courses and golf experience are truly spectacular. Very remote location and hard to get to.

[duffer987]

OP you're preaching to the choir here. I don't think anyone would quibble with the following:
(Bandon + Pacific + Old Mac + Trails) > (Pebble + Spyglass + Spanish + Del Monte)

But to say Pebble has 'some history' and is 'overrated' is disingenuous. For an American course, Pebble has boat loads of history. Whether that matters is something different entirely. Bandon will never approach it from a tournament perspective, all varieties of golf holes have already been created so there is no legacy it can attain there, and caddie programs existed in the US before 1999.

I also think people get overpriced and overrated mixed up. The green fees need to be divorced from the shot values - but of course that is easier said than done. I'm not sure I've played a course that has strung together a better 5 hole stretch than 6-10 at Pebble. Of course are 6-10 and 17-18 enough to justify it's lofty ranking? TBH, IMHO, no. But then maybe I am unable to appreciate the nuances of the inland holes that course rankers see. Of course then someone could say the same about some stretches at Bandon, compared to their favorite courses, so is the subjective nature of ranking courses.

As far as 'hardcore' golfers are considered. There are as many trophy hunters going to Bandon, as Pebble. Just that the ones at Bandon have a better half who either plays or gives a weekend/week long pass. Pebble obviously has tremendous spa facilities, Carmel, and the rest of it for those who don't play.

It's great you are a big fan of Bandon Golf Resort, but as mentioned above, it really is a unique place in North American golf. If you prefer how Bandon serves up the golfing experience, then everything else on this continent will pale in comparison.

I've been fortunate enough to go there twice in the last year and hope to get there early next year as well. It is an incredible place, and my favorite place to golf in North America, but different golfing venues are not mutually exclusive and there is nothing wrong with appreciating everthing that Pebble has to offer as well

As an aside, have you played the Pebble Beach resort courses?

[Texsport]

Pebble Beach, while having the ocean on holes 6-10 and 17-18, also has some very ordinary stretches of holes - 1-3 and 15-16. (Nearly 1/3 of its holes). And, of course, there's the weather at PBS - also responsible for a fair amount of its history.

No such multi-weak hole weakness exists at Pacific Dunes for instance - and Pacific also has more spectacular ocean interface and weather.

I spoke to a former PGA Tour player about it today. He remembered hitting a 3-iron to hit #7 at PBS once, and said that the only thing that makes PBS challenging is the weather there.

Without the ocean, And weather, PBS would not be as good as as lot of inland courses.

There are many old courses with lots of major championship history, which are now too short to hold championships, making all that history irrelevant.

PBS and thr Peninsula courses are great, but they're not in the same league as Bandon IMO.

Texsport

[The Pearl]

[quote name='poppyhillsguy' timestamp='1384619761' post='8158076']
Would you pay $500 to play:
Cypress Point - No (already played it)
Augusta National - Yes
Pine Valley - No
Merion - No
NGLA - No
Shinnecock - No
Oakmont - No
Winged Foot - No
Fishers Island - No
[/quote]

Are you saying you would not pay $500 each for these courses? Sand Hills is in the Top 10 on the current rankings, NGLA is not. I would write a check right now for 5K for that 10 round package. That is not even a decision that should be contemplated.

[TheMackDaddy]

[quote name='poppyhillsguy' timestamp='1384619761' post='8158076']
Would you pay $500 to play:
Cypress Point - No (already played it)
Augusta National - Yes
Pine Valley - No
Merion - No
NGLA - No
Shinnecock - No
Oakmont - No
Winged Foot - No
Fishers Island - No
[/quote]
Is cypress really that difficult to get onto?

[Sean2]

[quote name='mctrees02' timestamp='1384618126' post='8157998']
[quote name='jon2' timestamp='1384550231' post='8154850']
There are very few places where I would feel special to walk the same grounds as some of the legends and a place anyone can pay 500 bones to do it, certainly isn't one of them.
[/quote]
Would you pay $500 to play:
Cypress Point
Augusta National
Pine Valley
Merion
NGLA
Shinnecock
Oakmont
Winged Foot
Fishers Island

We should all feel fortunate that $500 grants access to Pebble Beach. That is certainly not the case with the vast majority of best courses in America. Access to those requires some combination of money, genetics, social connections, influence and or damn good fortune.
[/quote]

I disagree. $500 is a complete ripoff. They ask that much because they can get that much. Price gouging at it's finest. I'm all for folks making a profit, but that's ridiculous.

[lumberman2462]

I paid $275 when I played Pebble and am glad I had the chance.

I've missed two trips to Bandon and have had to live with the photos and stories in the 19th hole. I won't miss it this year.

[duffer987]

@Texsport
I've only played Bandon in Nov and Feb, so for me I wouldn't be so sure about the weather
I cannot disagree with anything you said though, with the exception of maybe the mixing of uninteresting and challenging.
While Pebble and Spyglass lack the 18 hole interest of the Bandon courses, I found them more difficult than Bandon on the whole.

I think that is one of the great triumphs of the Bandon Golf Resort. Those tracks are all very playable. There are very few tee shots or approach shots that do not leave you with an option. They have done a great job of adhering to MacKenzies key principles of course design.

Without making the greens silly fast, I think a PGA pro would get around Bandon quite easily*

*Easy for them that is.

[duffer987]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1384729391' post='8163580']

I disagree. $500 is a complete ripoff. They ask that much because they can get that much. Price gouging at it's finest. I'm all for folks making a profit, but that's ridiculous.
[/quote]

That's a ton of America's "Greatest Courses" you're not going to experience then. I agree some of these green fees are silly, but supply and demand being what it is, that's the pay to play price.

Yes I can play my local track 15 or so times for the price of 1 round on some of these high end courses, but I enjoy these courses for their design features, routings, and to see how one architect and era presents the challenge to the golfer versus another.

It's much in the same way while the Rockies and the Alps are mountain ranges, it's great to experience them both and appreciate their differences.

[mringwelski]

[quote name='duffer987' timestamp='1384730332' post='8163654']
@Texsport
I've only played Bandon in Nov and Feb, so for me I wouldn't be so sure about the weather
I cannot disagree with anything you said though, with the exception of maybe the mixing of uninteresting and challenging.
While Pebble and Spyglass lack the 18 hole interest of the Bandon courses, I found them more difficult than Bandon on the whole.

I think that is one of the great triumphs of the Bandon Golf Resort. Those tracks are all very playable. There are very few tee shots or approach shots that do not leave you with an option. They have done a great job of adhering to MacKenzies key principles of course design.

Without making the greens silly fast, I think a PGA pro would get around Bandon quite easily*

*Easy for them that is.
[/quote]

Silly fast at Bandon is maybe 11 on the stimp. Prevailing Wind plays a pretty big factor if the greens are rolling faster than normal. I've seen plenty of PGA pros getting eaten up by trails and old mac. Playability all depends on what the wind wants to do that day.

[Sean2]

[quote name='duffer987' timestamp='1384730773' post='8163696']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1384729391' post='8163580']
I disagree. $500 is a complete ripoff. They ask that much because they can get that much. Price gouging at it's finest. I'm all for folks making a profit, but that's ridiculous.
[/quote]

That's a ton of America's "Greatest Courses" you're not going to experience then. I agree some of these green fees are silly, but supply and demand being what it is, that's the pay to play price.

Yes I can play my local track 15 or so times for the price of 1 round on some of these high end courses, but I enjoy these courses for their design features, routings, and to see how one architect and era presents the challenge to the golfer versus another.

It's much in the same way while the Rockies and the Alps are mountain ranges, it's great to experience them both and appreciate their differences.
[/quote]

Then I won't. :-)

As I said, I don't mind people making a profit...I'm all for free enterprise...but c'mon, $500? Someone also told me they charge $90 for a dozen ProV's. Really?

I like different designs too, but...

[QMany]

I wish Bandon was a little easy to get to and a little cheaper. I really want to plan a trip, but it isn't easy.

[TML]

Pebble is way overrated. Bandon is harder to get to. The journey makes it all that more exciting.

[duffer987]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1384738784' post='8164386']
[quote name='duffer987' timestamp='1384730773' post='8163696']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1384729391' post='8163580']
I disagree. $500 is a complete ripoff. They ask that much because they can get that much. Price gouging at it's finest. I'm all for folks making a profit, but that's ridiculous.
[/quote]

That's a ton of America's "Greatest Courses" you're not going to experience then. I agree some of these green fees are silly, but supply and demand being what it is, that's the pay to play price.

Yes I can play my local track 15 or so times for the price of 1 round on some of these high end courses, but I enjoy these courses for their design features, routings, and to see how one architect and era presents the challenge to the golfer versus another.

It's much in the same way while the Rockies and the Alps are mountain ranges, it's great to experience them both and appreciate their differences.
[/quote]

Then I won't. :-)

As I said, I don't mind people making a profit...I'm all for free enterprise...but c'mon, $500? Someone also told me they charge $90 for a dozen ProV's. Really?

I like different designs too, but...
[/quote]

You know what, I wouldn't bet they are far off that TBH, as they charge $100 for rental clubs. We played with guys staying there, paying full whack, and with rental clubs and sundries (we were there via NCGA), eyes water thinking what they were spending.

One of the many great things about Bandon is their offseason rates. You get them for mid range public course/muni rates in the winter