Manual de la Torre Method

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  • The PearlThe Pearl Members Posts: 1,962 ✭✭

    This is an interesting concept..

  • NoTalentLeftyNoTalentLefty Members Posts: 3,501 ✭✭

    Just received my mdlt cd and watching it after hip replacement. Had to reorder the book, it’s been lost in the House cleaning. Love his logic and way to the game. Hope to be able to stick with it this time. Thanks for all the commits out here from Juststeve.

    Livin' proof that Lefties are not naturally talented.

    Driver Titleist 913 D3 44 inches also a Taylormade M2 44 inches.
    3 and 5 Wood Ping G15
    3-5 Hybrids Cobra Baffler XL
    6-GW Titleist AP1s
    53 degree Wedge Titleist AP1
    58 degree SW Vokey SM6
    Putter White Hot V LINE Fang w/round Edel Grip
  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 209 ✭✭

    My iron game is officially gone. I’m hitting the best drivers, 3 woods, hybrids and great short game chip shots with Pw thru 5 iron... anything between 60 and 175 yards has gone to crap. I went from 9 iron 130 yards, 7 iron 150 and 5 iron 170 to hardly reaching 100 yards with 9 iron and half of the shots going slicing right. “Take it from here (trail shoulder) to here swinging the whole club” is not working for me right now. Frustrating. I can see the swing in my head, dreams, back with hands forward with arms... but I cant find the clubface and sweet spot like before at impact. I guess just be patient and keep practicing slow motion move to top of swing then back to address.

  • juststevejuststeve Members Posts: 4,790 ✭✭

    @skajaquada77 said:
    My iron game is officially gone. I’m hitting the best drivers, 3 woods, hybrids and great short game chip shots with Pw thru 5 iron... anything between 60 and 175 yards has gone to crap. I went from 9 iron 130 yards, 7 iron 150 and 5 iron 170 to hardly reaching 100 yards with 9 iron and half of the shots going slicing right. “Take it from here (trail shoulder) to here swinging the whole club” is not working for me right now. Frustrating. I can see the swing in my head, dreams, back with hands forward with arms... but I cant find the clubface and sweet spot like before at impact. I guess just be patient and keep practicing slow motion move to top of swing then back to address.

    Here are two things to ask yourself:
    1. Am I moving the club from toe up when its parallel to the ground before impact to toe up when it parallel to the ground after impact, and
    2. Am I maintaining a stationary swing center at least until impact. A way to sense this is to make sure you have equal amounts of weight on each foot until it moves forward in reaction to club swinging forward.

    As you think about these two things retreat for the moment to shorter swing and shorter shots until contact returns. It shouldn't take too long.

    Steve

  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 209 ✭✭

    @juststeve said:

    @skajaquada77 said:
    My iron game is officially gone. I’m hitting the best drivers, 3 woods, hybrids and great short game chip shots with Pw thru 5 iron... anything between 60 and 175 yards has gone to crap. I went from 9 iron 130 yards, 7 iron 150 and 5 iron 170 to hardly reaching 100 yards with 9 iron and half of the shots going slicing right. “Take it from here (trail shoulder) to here swinging the whole club” is not working for me right now. Frustrating. I can see the swing in my head, dreams, back with hands forward with arms... but I cant find the clubface and sweet spot like before at impact. I guess just be patient and keep practicing slow motion move to top of swing then back to address.

    Here are two things to ask yourself:
    1. Am I moving the club from toe up when its parallel to the ground before impact to toe up when it parallel to the ground after impact, and
    2. Am I maintaining a stationary swing center at least until impact. A way to sense this is to make sure you have equal amounts of weight on each foot until it moves forward in reaction to club swinging forward.

    As you think about these two things retreat for the moment to shorter swing and shorter shots until contact returns. It shouldn't take too long.

    Steve

    Thanks for the tips Steve, I’m headed to the range tomorrow after work, i wil try to pay attention to both things. In my mind of course I think I do both, but video or slow motion swings might reveal a different story. I do feel that Im pretty good from parallel to parallel (or about 40% - 50% swings), once i go pass that on the back swing I get out of sync or speed up the tempo an panic, then it is all leverage and compensations trying to control path, direction, etc.

  • DrDonDrDon Members Posts: 83 ✭✭

    @skajaquada77 said:
    My iron game is officially gone. I’m hitting the best drivers, 3 woods, hybrids and great short game chip shots with Pw thru 5 iron... anything between 60 and 175 yards has gone to crap. I went from 9 iron 130 yards, 7 iron 150 and 5 iron 170 to hardly reaching 100 yards with 9 iron and half of the shots going slicing right. “Take it from here (trail shoulder) to here swinging the whole club” is not working for me right now. Frustrating. I can see the swing in my head, dreams, back with hands forward with arms... but I cant find the clubface and sweet spot like before at impact. I guess just be patient and keep practicing slow motion move to top of swing then back to address.

    Stick with the MDLT method, even when your game goes south for a bit.

    Being a very analytical person, too many times, I made the mistake trying another "new" method of swinging the golf club. I was always looking for that "secret" that would take my golf game to new heights. I always enjoyed reading about different methods of golf instruction, and then, TRYING THEM ALL. Unfortunately, every new swing method or swing thought eventually failed after a short honeymoon period.

    I tried the MDLT method several years ago, but abandoned it for another swing method to try. But, now, I've returned to and sticking with the simplicity of MDLT. I'm not concerned with body parts or body positions. My ball striking is much more consistent by focusing solely on the swinging the golf club according to the principles espoused by MLDT. And, when my golf isn't at its best, I'm no longer looking for another new method. I've given up reading the instruction section of GOLFWRX, except for the MLDT threads.

  • chippa13chippa13 Members Posts: 2,289 ✭✭

    I find when things start to go wrong that my posture at address has gotten slouchy. Once I focus on that at address before switching to the target things sort themselves out.

  • nlk10010nlk10010 Members Posts: 327 ✭✭
    edited Jun 12, 2019 1:02pm #1149

    @DrDon said:

    @skajaquada77 said:
    My iron game is officially gone. I’m hitting the best drivers, 3 woods, hybrids and great short game chip shots with Pw thru 5 iron... anything between 60 and 175 yards has gone to crap. I went from 9 iron 130 yards, 7 iron 150 and 5 iron 170 to hardly reaching 100 yards with 9 iron and half of the shots going slicing right. “Take it from here (trail shoulder) to here swinging the whole club” is not working for me right now. Frustrating. I can see the swing in my head, dreams, back with hands forward with arms... but I cant find the clubface and sweet spot like before at impact. I guess just be patient and keep practicing slow motion move to top of swing then back to address.

    Stick with the MDLT method, even when your game goes south for a bit.

    Being a very analytical person, too many times, I made the mistake trying another "new" method of swinging the golf club. I was always looking for that "secret" that would take my golf game to new heights. I always enjoyed reading about different methods of golf instruction, and then, TRYING THEM ALL. Unfortunately, every new swing method or swing thought eventually failed after a short honeymoon period.

    I tried the MDLT method several years ago, but abandoned it for another swing method to try. But, now, I've returned to and sticking with the simplicity of MDLT. I'm not concerned with body parts or body positions. My ball striking is much more consistent by focusing solely on the swinging the golf club according to the principles espoused by MLDT. And, when my golf isn't at its best, I'm no longer looking for another new method. I've given up reading the instruction section of GOLFWRX, except for the MLDT threads.

    I too tend to the analytical and, quite apart from the specific method, find I suffer from what my partner calls the "all or nothing syndrome". In particular, when I've committed to learning a specific swing model and regress; i.e. hit a shot worse than one I've hit previously, I decide the model is not for me and switch to another one. It gives me hope. :)

    OK, well, it's not quite that bad but I'm sure I'm not the only high handicapper who tends not to "trust the process", for a reasonable amount of time at least. Sometimes I think the real lesson to be learned is to not switch swing models after each round or bucket of range balls.

    "The company loves its money. If they could, they'd go to strip clubs and throw naked women at money."

    Professional golf swing crash test dummy. Please do not try at home (e.g. on a simulator) what you see me do on a closed course.

  • OrangeGravyOrangeGravy WAMembers Posts: 1,234 ✭✭

    @DrDon said:

    @skajaquada77 said:
    My iron game is officially gone. I’m hitting the best drivers, 3 woods, hybrids and great short game chip shots with Pw thru 5 iron... anything between 60 and 175 yards has gone to crap. I went from 9 iron 130 yards, 7 iron 150 and 5 iron 170 to hardly reaching 100 yards with 9 iron and half of the shots going slicing right. “Take it from here (trail shoulder) to here swinging the whole club” is not working for me right now. Frustrating. I can see the swing in my head, dreams, back with hands forward with arms... but I cant find the clubface and sweet spot like before at impact. I guess just be patient and keep practicing slow motion move to top of swing then back to address.

    Stick with the MDLT method, even when your game goes south for a bit.

    Being a very analytical person, too many times, I made the mistake trying another "new" method of swinging the golf club. I was always looking for that "secret" that would take my golf game to new heights. I always enjoyed reading about different methods of golf instruction, and then, TRYING THEM ALL. Unfortunately, every new swing method or swing thought eventually failed after a short honeymoon period.

    I tried the MDLT method several years ago, but abandoned it for another swing method to try. But, now, I've returned to and sticking with the simplicity of MDLT. I'm not concerned with body parts or body positions. My ball striking is much more consistent by focusing solely on the swinging the golf club according to the principles espoused by MLDT. And, when my golf isn't at its best, I'm no longer looking for another new method. I've given up reading the instruction section of GOLFWRX, except for the MLDT threads.

    The best thing about this "method" to me is that it isn't really a method in my mind. If you swing the club back with your hands, it takes your body where it needs to go. Same thing going forward. To me this is just swinging the club the way your body (your unique anatomical makeup) wants to swing anything. That is the beauty of it for me. It gives me the confirmation I needed mentally that what feels natural to me actually produces good distance, good ball flight and consistency. I've never been a technical position guy, but it's so easy to get sucked down the rabbit hole when you hit a rough patch. Now if I have an off day or hit a bad shot, it doesn't phase me. I'm not thinking about what went wrong and hopping online to find a solution. I just re-focus on my grip/setup on the next shot and swing. So much easier to power through a bad shot or bad hole.

  • juststevejuststeve Members Posts: 4,790 ✭✭

    Its been a bit more than 50 years since Manny taught me to swing a golf club. In that time my swing has "gone south" lots of times. What I discovered working through those periods is that it was always because I wasn't executing what Manny told me to do well enough. In my case it's usually getting sloppy in the pre-swing, but others experience may vary. What I know for sure is that if I do what Manny told me to do, right from the beginning, my shots will turn out well.

    Steve

  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 209 ✭✭

    Thanks everybody for the encouragement and for sharing your own experiences. Luckily John Hayes was available so instead of trying to figure out on my own i just opted for a session with him. Here are the findings:
    1- Start backswings with both hands, dont get too left hand dominant. John places the butt end of the club against my right hand to make sure both hands are used on backswing.
    2.- Top of swing was perfect. No problems there
    3.- Swing entire club with arms parallel to the target liNe WITH LEFT ARM TOTALLY RELAXED. In order to feel the correct feeling, I was doing half swings (chip shots) with left arm relaxed.
    4.- Drill putting clubface behind touching the ball and (without backswing) just swing forward to get the feeling of the ball just rolling towards target. Trying to fix a little bit of scooping motion and focusing on ball going straight forward instead of flying high.
    5.- Last, after checking on video that all checkpoints were good but ball was flying a little right and high, we checked/tested grip. Right hand was too week so needed to be corrected a bit. To do so, grip left hand then right palm hand open flat against left hand, fingers pointing down, then gently close. It made me make contact with the ball more square during swing so I have to work on remembering to check this.

    So good progress, the grinding continues!

  • musclefrontmusclefront Members Posts: 144 ✭✭

    Congrats! Sounds fun and awesome. Golf can be fun :)

  • oukeithoukeith Members Posts: 159 ✭✭

    Number 3 above is interesting. Did he think your lead arm was particularly not relaxed? Or was he trying to get you more trail arm dominant in the forward swing?

  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 209 ✭✭

    @oukeith said:
    Number 3 above is interesting. Did he think your lead arm was particularly not relaxed? Or was he trying to get you more trail arm dominant in the forward swing?

    The lead arm was definately not relaxed, not allowing the club to naturally rotate to toe up towards the target. By keeping it so tight, all my shots were going high left because the clubface was always open.
    So no, he did not want me to make my trail arm more dominant, they work in pars to complement each other. But they have to be loose and relaxed.
    Hitting 50% swings is helping me a lot, feeling what is like to go thru impact totally relaxed. If you find the sweetspot, you dont need to kill/smash the ball. In all honesty, my only thought before the swing is: relax and swing it like Freddie Couples, thats my job. Let the club do its work and send the ball to the target.
    Heading for Orange County National for 36 holes. Let’s see if the iron play holds up!

  • The PearlThe Pearl Members Posts: 1,962 ✭✭

    I probably missed this, but skaj are you left handed?

  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 209 ✭✭

    @The Pearl said:
    I probably missed this, but skaj are you left handed?

    Right handed. Did I mix up lead/left right/trail in previous posts?

  • The PearlThe Pearl Members Posts: 1,962 ✭✭

    I was just curious in regards to John's recommendation #1 above about putting the butt of the club against your right hand in order to emphasize taking the club back with both hands. I was confused at first, but now the light bulb went off and realize it is the drill Manuel is known for whereby he holds the butt of a club against the back of your right hand.

  • TheTigerBuckTheTigerBuck Members Posts: 2

    I've gone "all in" with the MDLT method this year, and I'm enjoying the results. I think I've read all the MDLT threads on Golf WRX more than once...I really appreciate everyone's contributions. On one of the threads, someone wrote that a correctly executed forward swing can make up for a lot backswing imperfections. I'm finding this to be true. Also true is that sometimes I focus too much on the backswing and forget about forward swing intentions -- when that happens the results are not good. But when I focus on the forward swing and don't really worry about the backswing, results are fine.

  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 209 ✭✭

    @The Pearl said:
    I was just curious in regards to John's recommendation #1 above about putting the butt of the club against your right hand in order to emphasize taking the club back with both hands. I was confused at first, but now the light bulb went off and realize it is the drill Manuel is known for whereby he holds the butt of a club against the back of your right hand.

    That’s it! I just re-read some of Manuel’s book and John’s collection of tips and that is definately the drill. Works wonders.

  • juststevejuststeve Members Posts: 4,790 ✭✭

    @TheTigerBuck said:
    I've gone "all in" with the MDLT method this year, and I'm enjoying the results. I think I've read all the MDLT threads on Golf WRX more than once...I really appreciate everyone's contributions. On one of the threads, someone wrote that a correctly executed forward swing can make up for a lot backswing imperfections. I'm finding this to be true. Also true is that sometimes I focus too much on the backswing and forget about forward swing intentions -- when that happens the results are not good. But when I focus on the forward swing and don't really worry about the back swing, results are fine.

    If somehow you have putt yourself in the proper position from which to make your forward swing then the back swing matters little. The purpose of the back swing however is not just to get the club in the right position from which to swing forward. The back swing also produces the coil and give you a sense of swinging the club in rhythm. You really need to focus on both to get everything the method has to offer.

    Steve

  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 209 ✭✭
    edited Jun 18, 2019 2:11am #1162




    I once heard Niklaus say that he knew if he was going to hit a good shot or a bad one by the feeling of the first 3 inches in the takeaway. If you use BOTHs hands equally to take away to toe up at parallel then to trail shoulder, you’ll be more than fine on backswing and at that point you are done. Swing the whole club with your arms, brushing the grass, and boom, the club propels the ball (not you) to the target. Really hard to come to terms with the simplicity of it all but that’s it.

    Glad you are all here in this thread, specially Steve, sharing thoughts and experiences thru this journey. It’s good to know how others see or experience the same teachings and how different the swing feels from one person to another. Oh to be 6 again and just freely do what you are told and not overanalyze it all.... My daughter swinging the Driver Manuel’s way

    Post edited by skajaquada77 on
  • Cg1013Cg1013 Members Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited Jun 18, 2019 7:53pm #1163

    @juststeve
    You are in Dallas correct? Do you know anyone that teaches mdlt in Dallas?

    Post edited by Cg1013 on
  • musclefrontmusclefront Members Posts: 144 ✭✭

    @skajaquada77 said:



    I once heard Niklaus say that he knew if he was going to hit a good shot or a bad one by the feeling of the first 3 inches in the takeaway. If you use BOTHs hands equally to take away to toe up at parallel then to trail shoulder, you’ll be more than fine on backswing and at that point you are done. Swing the whole club with your arms, brushing the grass, and boom, the club propels the ball (not you) to the target. Really hard to come to terms with the simplicity of it all but that’s it.

    Glad you are all here in this thread, specially Steve, sharing thoughts and experiences thru this journey. It’s good to know how others see or experience the same teachings and how different the swing feels from one person to another. Oh to be 6 again and just freely do what you are told and not overanalyze it all.... My daughter swinging the Driver Manuel’s way

    the driver head is bigger than hers!!! so cool!

  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 209 ✭✭

    the driver head is bigger than hers!!! so cool!

    Yes! Old Taylormade burner with junior shaft. 😂

  • GolfbeatGolfbeat Swing Lessee Members Posts: 1,684 ✭✭

    Question: I understand that according Manuel’s concept, the weight (pressure) should be equally on each leg during back swing all the way until impact. However, if I watch Manuel swing, he clearly lifts his left heel off the ground in the back swing. @Steve, would you be able to give some insight on this potential contradiction?

  • oukeithoukeith Members Posts: 159 ✭✭

    Also wonder if he always did that, or started later as he aged...

  • juststevejuststeve Members Posts: 4,790 ✭✭

    @Golfbeat said:
    Question: I understand that according Manuel’s concept, the weight (pressure) should be equally on each leg during back swing all the way until impact. However, if I watch Manuel swing, he clearly lifts his left heel off the ground in the back swing. @Steve, would you be able to give some insight on this potential contradiction?

    Sure. Manny advocated equal weight on each foot right and left but did not oppose a weight shift on each foot individually. What you are seeing is that as Manny swings back the weight on his left foot moves to the ball of the foot, and the heel comes up, and the weight on his right foot moves to the heel. The opposite occurs in the forward swing. This is not deliberate, it just happens. If you consciously prevented the shift on each foot it would reduce the dody's response which is not wanted.

    Steve

  • HaberHaber Members Posts: 122 ✭✭

    I'm in my infancy with this swing but I just came to say how blown away I am with it's simplicity.

    I have to preface it with an apology to Steve as I've been a lurker in this section and following a lot of Montes posts and always seeing the guy talking about no swing thoughts and just swinging the club from one shoulder to the other and thinking he was off his rocker.... The swing needs positions that have to be focused on to be repeatable..WRONG!

    Out of sheer frustration and being at my wits end with my lacklustre play of late I went on the WRX swing fix search. I took very position oriented lessons at golftec and dropped from a 13 to a 7 last year. That swing led to loads of swing thoughts and I ended up losing distance over my old self taught swing.

    Fast forward to this year and I cannot make a full turn in my backswing and I'm hitting everything 1 club short and driver is down 20 yards. I just turned 30 I didnt expect this for another 20 years. After range time with my playing partner and being told for the 100th time I'm only taking a half swing and feeling like it's as far as I can go I went looking for help.

    Saw another one of Steve's posts talking about just swinging the clubhead over your right shoulder with your hands and swinging the whole club to the target with the upper arms... what the **** go in the back yard and swing the clubhead over my shoulder... grab my camera for confirmation and I'm making a full turn club parallel shoulders past 90 and on plane.

    Went to the course today and hit 10 balls for warmup and went out with just that one thought and was absolutely killing the ball. I ended up shooting 40 on the front as I got way too cocky on 9 and cost myself a double. Had a kick in birdie on a par 3 and just an all around great ball striking day. If my putting was on I would have flirted with par.

    I am all in after reading through this thread and have ordered the book. Steve what you preach is legit and I appreciate everything you do on these forums. Without your willingness and passion to preach MDLT's swing in all the other topics I would never have stumbled upon this.

  • DrDonDrDon Members Posts: 83 ✭✭

    Haber,

    Don't -- DO NOT -- go back to looking at other swing/instruction videos/blogs/threads/etc. I have been on this trip myself . . . always looking for the latest "secret" to improving my swing and my golf game. It is fool's errand.

    I have finally returned to the simplicity of MLDT. My golf game is the best it has been. And, life is good.

  • NoTalentLeftyNoTalentLefty Members Posts: 3,501 ✭✭

    How quickly did Manuel club move inside the path on the backswing? On a video I saw it seemed not immediately but fairly quick. Or I'm I not getting his swing?

    Livin' proof that Lefties are not naturally talented.

    Driver Titleist 913 D3 44 inches also a Taylormade M2 44 inches.
    3 and 5 Wood Ping G15
    3-5 Hybrids Cobra Baffler XL
    6-GW Titleist AP1s
    53 degree Wedge Titleist AP1
    58 degree SW Vokey SM6
    Putter White Hot V LINE Fang w/round Edel Grip

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