Do We Overthink the Swing?

Handicap index in the mid 8's. Go on a little golf trip this week and shoot 86, 85, 82. Get home and yesterday's front nine was a bad 44. Say f... it, I'm just going to hit the ball as hard as I can. Don't care about anything or don't think about anything else. Bogey 18 for a 37. Come out today with the same thoughts and shoot 76 with 2 3-putts and a bad double bogey on a par 5.

For 27 holes, I'm 5 over par with absolute no swing thoughts except hit the damn ball as hard as I can.

Someone tell me why?

Fewer swing thoughts the better.

A lot of things happen during a golf swing. If we can get all the good things to happen and all the bad things not to happen with just one simple swing thought, well that’s great. Even when we can, though, the elements fluctuate. Even the one element we’ve been consciously cuing can fluctuate. When that happens, things start to go wrong. At that point, we have to think differently, analytically. We take stuff apart, find out what changed, what stopped working and what creeped in uninvited. To many, this is ‘over thinking’. In my view, it’s only halfway. Once you get all the details worked out, you still have to put them all back into one ‘clump’ and find another simple cue that’ll get them all humming again.

Analyzing how it all works and understanding how to put it together is a different type of thinking from the reactive impulsive thinking one needs to execute the product of all that understanding

A lot of things happen during a golf swing. If we can get all the good things to happen and all the bad things not to happen with just one simple swing thought, well that's great. Even when we can, though, the elements fluctuate. Even the one element we've been consciously cuing can fluctuate. When that happens, things start to go wrong. At that point, we have to think differently, analytically. We take stuff apart, find out what changed, what stopped working and what creeped in uninvited. To many, this is 'over thinking'. In my view, it's only halfway. Once you get all the details worked out, you still have to put them all back into one 'clump' and find another simple cue that'll get them all humming again.

Analyzing how it all works and understanding how to put it together is a different type of thinking from the reactive impulsive thinking one needs to execute the product of all that understanding

Is that not what I said ;)

A lot of things happen during a golf swing. If we can get all the good things to happen and all the bad things not to happen with just one simple swing thought, well that's great. Even when we can, though, the elements fluctuate. Even the one element we've been consciously cuing can fluctuate. When that happens, things start to go wrong. At that point, we have to think differently, analytically. We take stuff apart, find out what changed, what stopped working and what creeped in uninvited. To many, this is 'over thinking'. In my view, it's only halfway. Once you get all the details worked out, you still have to put them all back into one 'clump' and find another simple cue that'll get them all humming again.

Analyzing how it all works and understanding how to put it together is a different type of thinking from the reactive impulsive thinking one needs to execute the product of all that understanding

 

Is that not what I said ;)

No.

A lot of things happen during a golf swing. If we can get all the good things to happen and all the bad things not to happen with just one simple swing thought, well that's great. Even when we can, though, the elements fluctuate. Even the one element we've been consciously cuing can fluctuate. When that happens, things start to go wrong. At that point, we have to think differently, analytically. We take stuff apart, find out what changed, what stopped working and what creeped in uninvited. To many, this is 'over thinking'. In my view, it's only halfway. Once you get all the details worked out, you still have to put them all back into one 'clump' and find another simple cue that'll get them all humming again.

Analyzing how it all works and understanding how to put it together is a different type of thinking from the reactive impulsive thinking one needs to execute the product of all that understanding

 

Is that not what I said ;)

 

No.

Well, I have had 2 large margaritas so I wasn't sure :taunt:

A lot of things happen during a golf swing. If we can get all the good things to happen and all the bad things not to happen with just one simple swing thought, well that's great. Even when we can, though, the elements fluctuate. Even the one element we've been consciously cuing can fluctuate. When that happens, things start to go wrong. At that point, we have to think differently, analytically. We take stuff apart, find out what changed, what stopped working and what creeped in uninvited. To many, this is 'over thinking'. In my view, it's only halfway. Once you get all the details worked out, you still have to put them all back into one 'clump' and find another simple cue that'll get them all humming again.

Analyzing how it all works and understanding how to put it together is a different type of thinking from the reactive impulsive thinking one needs to execute the product of all that understanding

 

Is that not what I said ;)

 

No.

 

Well, I have had 2 large margaritas so I wasn't sure :taunt:

Well, don’t stop there, dude! Have another, or five.

Yes we do.

It's okay to have swing thoughts early on when you're making some changes. But eventually those swing thoughts should dissipate and it should be more of a sensing of what you have to do. It's not completely unconscious, but it's a sense of how you have to move in order to produce the shot.

It's much like learning to type. When I first learned, I was taught the letters first. Then consciously thinking the letter for each word. Then eventually I could have the word I wanted to type and sense what motion(s) I would have to make with my fingers to to type the word. And if I mis-typed a word, I could immediately sense something wasn't right.

With the golf swing, it's like many people are stuck by thinking of each letter in a word and typing it. Even worse, they think that is the only way to do it and have no end goal of doing it virtually unconsciously.

The issue is not the complexity of the teaching, it's the inefficient way of learning.

RH

Yes we do.

 

It's okay to have swing thoughts early on when you're making some changes. But eventually those swing thoughts should dissipate and it should be more of a sensing of what you have to do. It's not completely unconscious, but it's a sense of how you have to move in order to produce the shot.

 

It's much like learning to type. When I first learned, I was taught the letters first. Then consciously thinking the letter for each word. Then eventually I could have the word I wanted to type and sense what motion(s) I would have to make with my fingers to to type the word. And if I mis-typed a word, I could immediately sense something wasn't right.

 

With the golf swing, it's like many people are stuck by thinking of each letter in a word and typing it. Even worse, they think that is the only way to do it and have no end goal of doing it virtually unconsciously.

 

The issue is not the complexity of the teaching, it's the inefficient way of learning.

 

 

 

 

RH

Great analogy.

Yes we do.

 

It's okay to have swing thoughts early on when you're making some changes. But eventually those swing thoughts should dissipate and it should be more of a sensing of what you have to do. It's not completely unconscious, but it's a sense of how you have to move in order to produce the shot.

 

It's much like learning to type. When I first learned, I was taught the letters first. Then consciously thinking the letter for each word. Then eventually I could have the word I wanted to type and sense what motion(s) I would have to make with my fingers to to type the word. And if I mis-typed a word, I could immediately sense something wasn't right.

 

With the golf swing, it's like many people are stuck by thinking of each letter in a word and typing it. Even worse, they think that is the only way to do it and have no end goal of doing it virtually unconsciously.

 

The issue is not the complexity of the teaching, it's the inefficient way of learning.

 

 

 

 

RH

Drat, I'm a world-fast typist, and not a great swinger of the golf club. :)

Handicap index in the mid 8's. Go on a little golf trip this week and shoot 86, 85, 82. Get home and yesterday's front nine was a bad 44. Say f... it, I'm just going to hit the ball as hard as I can. Don't care about anything or don't think about anything else. Bogey 18 for a 37. Come out today with the same thoughts and shoot 76 with 2 3-putts and a bad double bogey on a par 5.

 

For 27 holes, I'm 5 over par with absolute no swing thoughts except hit the damn ball as hard as I can.

 

Someone tell me why?

Best two rounds of my life occurred when we were trying to beat the dark and it was just step up and swing on every shot.

I don't know, let me think about it.

Yes we do.

 

It's okay to have swing thoughts early on when you're making some changes. But eventually those swing thoughts should dissipate and it should be more of a sensing of what you have to do. It's not completely unconscious, but it's a sense of how you have to move in order to produce the shot.

 

It's much like learning to type. When I first learned, I was taught the letters first. Then consciously thinking the letter for each word. Then eventually I could have the word I wanted to type and sense what motion(s) I would have to make with my fingers to to type the word. And if I mis-typed a word, I could immediately sense something wasn't right.

 

With the golf swing, it's like many people are stuck by thinking of each letter in a word and typing it. Even worse, they think that is the only way to do it and have no end goal of doing it virtually unconsciously.

 

The issue is not the complexity of the teaching, it's the inefficient way of learning.

 

 

 

 

RH

Do you think people get too caught up in details, or a particular detail, before they’ve gotten a decent hold of the overall idea?

My question reminded me of this. A friend of mine was playing with some big hot head. The guy lost it, at one point, smashing his club on the ground. My friend said “it’s not the club, it’s you!” Looking at my friend with the look of sudden, stunned realization on his face, the guy asked “what am I doing?” “Well, you’re missin’ the ****in’ ball”, my friend responded.

Swings thoughts and swing mechcanics are two different things

Swings thoughts and swing mechcanics are two different things

Rather like car trouble, in that regard.

For 27 holes, I'm 5 over par with absolute no swing thoughts except hit the damn ball as hard as I can.

As you are here, you're likely to overthink the swing more than the average Joe.

Handicap index in the mid 8's. Go on a little golf trip this week and shoot 86, 85, 82. Get home and yesterday's front nine was a bad 44. Say f... it, I'm just going to hit the ball as hard as I can. Don't care about anything or don't think about anything else. Bogey 18 for a 37. Come out today with the same thoughts and shoot 76 with 2 3-putts and a bad double bogey on a par 5.

 

For 27 holes, I'm 5 over par with absolute no swing thoughts except hit the damn ball as hard as I can.

 

Someone tell me why?

One of the greatest swing thoughts I use and still use is to say under my breath while exhaling "I don't care" or "I'm content with the outcome" during the swing. It's thinking about not thinking. If you can be content at impact your butt cheeks will not clinch and your eyes will not squint. When you get good at it it just becomes how you golf. Yes I'm thinking, but I'm placing my mind where I want it.

Handicap index in the mid 8's. Go on a little golf trip this week and shoot 86, 85, 82. Get home and yesterday's front nine was a bad 44. Say f... it, I'm just going to hit the ball as hard as I can. Don't care about anything or don't think about anything else. Bogey 18 for a 37. Come out today with the same thoughts and shoot 76 with 2 3-putts and a bad double bogey on a par 5.

 

For 27 holes, I'm 5 over par with absolute no swing thoughts except hit the damn ball as hard as I can.

 

Someone tell me why?

Yes

/Thread

Yes

Do you think people get too caught up in details, or a particular detail, before they've gotten a decent hold of the overall idea?

 

My question reminded me of this. A friend of mine was playing with some big hot head. The guy lost it, at one point, smashing his club on the ground. My friend said "it's not the club, it's you!" Looking at my friend with the look of sudden, stunned realization on his face, the guy asked "what am I doing?" "Well, you're missin' the ****in' ball", my friend responded.

There's a myriad of problems average golfers have. One is getting blatantly incorrect information. But the other is that their objectives are all screwed up. The objective with learning new mechanics is to implement those new mechanics without having to actively think about them, before and during the swing so you can repeat those new mechanics that should improve your ballstriking.

Most golfers, even good ones, think that the goal is to come up with a swing thought/visual and they can just use that thought/visual and it will allow them to repeat the swing mechanics they want. That may work here and there, but over the long haul it's a recipe for inconsistency. Like the typing example, it would be like somebody who just wants to think of every letter when they type instead of the end game of typing the entire word without actively thinking about it. Going letter by letter is slower and less accurate.

It doesn't mean that you shouldn't have discussions or be curious enough to learn about the nuts and bolts of the swing. It's just that going into swing mechanics detail has its own purpose.

I think it's silly that people think that we shouldn't use correct terminology and should always speak in layman terms. But if you're going to learn more in detail of the mechanics...do it to understand what and why you are changing your swing. I say you should never make any changes in your swing unless you have a good and detailed reason for doing so. Otherwise, you don't understand what you're doing and you're likely just making a change for cosmetic reasons.

Once you make the change, it can be helpful to understand the entire motion process involved. You can even initially come up with swing thoughts/visuals...but with enough reps of quality practice, those swing thoughts/visuals should dissipate and it should be more of a sensing of the motion you want to make instead.

Most golfers tend to know very little about the swing changes they want to make and often end up doing it for aesthetics. Then they focus on swing thoughts/visuals and never get out of that mode and essentially chase that feel./visual that works for them some days and doesn't work for them on other days.

RH

Swing thoughts are for the range.

Over thinking is so destructive to my shot. The best way to end up in a hazard off the tee is to worry /over think about the hazards.

How many times have you walked up to the ball after a bad shot and just took a swing and had the best shot of the day? That answers the question for me

Over thinking is so destructive to my shot. The best way to end up in a hazard off the tee is to worry /over think about the hazards.

So, overthink the fairway.

I watched two golfers at the range tonight. One was a college golfer, the other a high school golfer. Both were obviously very good golfers.

At the end of their range session they both started doing a drill where they took a couple steps into the ball and swung. I'm not talking about the put your feet together and then step as you hit. I'm talking full-on Happy Gilmore.

They were hitting the most beautiful, penetrating baby draws. If you just saw the shot, you'd swear there was a PGA Tour player hitting.

As I stood there and watched, I thought "Uh huh. As these guys are stepping and swinging, how much thought do you think they're putting into how bowed their wrist is at the top or whether their left hip bumps to start the downswing?" Zero. They're stepping and letting the club swing to a target without a care in the world for mechanics.

Over thinking is so destructive to my shot. The best way to end up in a hazard off the tee is to worry /over think about the hazards.

 

So, overthink the fairway.

Seems that golf and these forums in particular attract those who trend towards OCD, myself included. I've been completely paralyzed by swing thoughts on the course and have since found that any more than 1-2 thoughts will do more harm than good.

Do you think people get too caught up in details, or a particular detail, before they've gotten a decent hold of the overall idea?

 

My question reminded me of this. A friend of mine was playing with some big hot head. The guy lost it, at one point, smashing his club on the ground. My friend said "it's not the club, it's you!" Looking at my friend with the look of sudden, stunned realization on his face, the guy asked "what am I doing?" "Well, you're missin' the ****in' ball", my friend responded.

 

There's a myriad of problems average golfers have. One is getting blatantly incorrect information. But the other is that their objectives are all screwed up. The objective with learning new mechanics is to implement those new mechanics without having to actively think about them, before and during the swing so you can repeat those new mechanics that should improve your ballstriking.

 

Most golfers, even good ones, think that the goal is to come up with a swing thought/visual and they can just use that thought/visual and it will allow them to repeat the swing mechanics they want. That may work here and there, but over the long haul it's a recipe for inconsistency. Like the typing example, it would be like somebody who just wants to think of every letter when they type instead of the end game of typing the entire word without actively thinking about it. Going letter by letter is slower and less accurate.

 

It doesn't mean that you shouldn't have discussions or be curious enough to learn about the nuts and bolts of the swing. It's just that going into swing mechanics detail has its own purpose.

 

I think it's silly that people think that we shouldn't use correct terminology and should always speak in layman terms. But if you're going to learn more in detail of the mechanics...do it to understand what and why you are changing your swing. I say you should never make any changes in your swing unless you have a good and detailed reason for doing so. Otherwise, you don't understand what you're doing and you're likely just making a change for cosmetic reasons.

 

Once you make the change, it can be helpful to understand the entire motion process involved. You can even initially come up with swing thoughts/visuals...but with enough reps of quality practice, those swing thoughts/visuals should dissipate and it should be more of a sensing of the motion you want to make instead.

 

Most golfers tend to know very little about the swing changes they want to make and often end up doing it for aesthetics. Then they focus on swing thoughts/visuals and never get out of that mode and essentially chase that feel./visual that works for them some days and doesn't work for them on other days.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

Rich,

For me personally, this post is right up there with slicefixer’s, iteach’s, monte’s and a few others very best shared wisdoms.

Thank you ?

Matt has one of the better takes on motion and energy. No need to over think, just use common sense, listen to yourself, and adjust.

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