DJ vs. DJ, MCS technique levels the playing field between athletic phenom and your average couch po

[northgolf]

With regards to acceleration, there is no peak acceleration before impact. Any suggestion of the sort is absurd, unless you factor in that some people do not understand camera technology.

 

With digital cameras, the picture fills in horizontal pixel rows top down to bottom. Therefore, something moving at high speed (especially near the bottom of the video frame) will seem to be moving ahead of something above it (the forward-bending club shaft in digital photography).

 

I solved the problem by simply turning the camera upside-down for video in which the distortion is not desired. When you do that, the distortion disappears and you get a more accurate representation of what is going on with the club during the down swing.

 

 

-----

 

No peak acceleration before impact.

 

Have a great Saturday, everyone.

 

DJ

 

So you trade one distorted perception for another? Why not get a high speed camera?

[mudge]

[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1430091160' post='11447091']


So you trade one distorted perception for another? Why not get a high speed camera?
[/quote]

It is a high speed camera. You should read up on the rolling shutter effect.

[northgolf]

[quote name='mudge' timestamp='1430092417' post='11447211']
[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1430091160' post='11447091']
So you trade one distorted perception for another? Why not get a high speed camera?
[/quote]

It is a high speed camera. You should read up on the rolling shutter effect.
[/quote]

At 1/5000th of a second shutter speed, rolling shutter doesn't mean a lot (demonstrate how bright you are and do the math for the significant digits of error (btw, what exactly is being measured)). At 25,000 frames/sec (phantom), I'd like to hear you repeat that math even though phantoms aren't digital (they do have a shutter).

Additionally, (and this went past you faster than a ramjet), DJ said his solution for rolling shutter effect was to turn the camera upside down - regardless of speed that just inverts the distortion. Changing shutter speed directly addresses the amount of distortion per frame.

Piece of advice here - when in a hole, stop digging. For you, that means out of 2 posts, you have one too many.

[mudge]

[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1430100543' post='11448297']
[quote name='mudge' timestamp='1430092417' post='11447211']
[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1430091160' post='11447091']
So you trade one distorted perception for another? Why not get a high speed camera?
[/quote]

It is a high speed camera. You should read up on the rolling shutter effect.
[/quote]

At 1/5000th of a second shutter speed, rolling shutter doesn't mean a lot (demonstrate how bright you are and do the math for the significant digits of error (btw, what exactly is being measured)). At 25,000 frames/sec (phantom), I'd like to hear you repeat that math even though phantoms aren't digital (they do have a shutter).

Additionally, (and this went past you faster than a ramjet), DJ said his solution for rolling shutter effect was to turn the camera upside down - regardless of speed that just inverts the distortion. Changing shutter speed directly addresses the amount of distortion per frame.

Piece of advice here - when in a hole, stop digging. For you, that means out of 2 posts, you have one too many.
[/quote]

WTF are you anyway? You don't know nearly as much as you think you do (just like DJ I see). Like I said, read up on rolling shutter, you might learn something.

[northgolf]

[quote name='mudge' timestamp='1430103504' post='11448569']
[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1430100543' post='11448297']
[quote name='mudge' timestamp='1430092417' post='11447211']
[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1430091160' post='11447091']
So you trade one distorted perception for another? Why not get a high speed camera?
[/quote]

It is a high speed camera. You should read up on the rolling shutter effect.
[/quote]

At 1/5000th of a second shutter speed, rolling shutter doesn't mean a lot (demonstrate how bright you are and do the math for the significant digits of error (btw, what exactly is being measured)). At 25,000 frames/sec (phantom), I'd like to hear you repeat that math even though phantoms aren't digital (they do have a shutter).

Additionally, (and this went past you faster than a ramjet), DJ said his solution for rolling shutter effect was to turn the camera upside down - regardless of speed that just inverts the distortion. Changing shutter speed directly addresses the amount of distortion per frame.

Piece of advice here - when in a hole, stop digging. For you, that means out of 2 posts, you have one too many.
[/quote]

WTF are you anyway? You don't know nearly as much as you think you do (just like DJ I see). Like I said, read up on rolling shutter, you might learn something.
[/quote]

strike 2

[mudge]

[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1430110823' post='11449039']
[quote name='mudge' timestamp='1430103504' post='11448569']
[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1430100543' post='11448297']
[quote name='mudge' timestamp='1430092417' post='11447211']
[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1430091160' post='11447091']
So you trade one distorted perception for another? Why not get a high speed camera?
[/quote]

It is a high speed camera. You should read up on the rolling shutter effect.
[/quote]

At 1/5000th of a second shutter speed, rolling shutter doesn't mean a lot (demonstrate how bright you are and do the math for the significant digits of error (btw, what exactly is being measured)). At 25,000 frames/sec (phantom), I'd like to hear you repeat that math even though phantoms aren't digital (they do have a shutter).

Additionally, (and this went past you faster than a ramjet), DJ said his solution for rolling shutter effect was to turn the camera upside down - regardless of speed that just inverts the distortion. Changing shutter speed directly addresses the amount of distortion per frame.

Piece of advice here - when in a hole, stop digging. For you, that means out of 2 posts, you have one too many.
[/quote]

WTF are you anyway? You don't know nearly as much as you think you do (just like DJ I see). Like I said, read up on rolling shutter, you might learn something.
[/quote]

strike 2
[/quote]

Consider this post strike 3. Am I out? If so, that's great because that means I'm going to rejoin the main thread discussion and pretend that we never crossed paths on some internet message board. Sound good Einstein?

[Jacob Mac]

[quote name='mudge' timestamp='1430092417' post='11447211']
[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1430091160' post='11447091']
So you trade one distorted perception for another? Why not get a high speed camera?
[/quote]

It is a high speed camera. You should read up on the rolling shutter effect.
[/quote]

How does turning the camera upside down stop the rolling shutter effect?

[northgolf]

[quote name='mudge' timestamp='1430116248' post='11449215']
[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1430110823' post='11449039']
[quote name='mudge' timestamp='1430103504' post='11448569']
[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1430100543' post='11448297']
[quote name='mudge' timestamp='1430092417' post='11447211']
It is a high speed camera. You should read up on the rolling shutter effect.
[/quote]

At 1/5000th of a second shutter speed, rolling shutter doesn't mean a lot (demonstrate how bright you are and do the math for the significant digits of error (btw, what exactly is being measured)). At 25,000 frames/sec (phantom), I'd like to hear you repeat that math even though phantoms aren't digital (they do have a shutter).

Additionally, (and this went past you faster than a ramjet), DJ said his solution for rolling shutter effect was to turn the camera upside down - regardless of speed that just inverts the distortion. Changing shutter speed directly addresses the amount of distortion per frame.

Piece of advice here - when in a hole, stop digging. For you, that means out of 2 posts, you have one too many.
[/quote]

WTF are you anyway? You don't know nearly as much as you think you do (just like DJ I see). Like I said, read up on rolling shutter, you might learn something.
[/quote]

strike 2
[/quote]

Consider this post strike 3. Am I out? If so, that's great because that means I'm going to rejoin the main thread discussion and pretend that we never crossed paths on some internet message board. Sound good Einstein?
[/quote]

I don't need to read up on rolling shutter effect, I understand it quite well. To explain my points in reverse order:

DJ said his solution to rolling shutter is to turn the camera upside down. This doesn't work, it just inverts the time distortion in the picture. With the shutter rolling from top to bottom, the image of the hands will be captured before the image of the club head - this gives the classic golf image distortion of the club shaft bending forward to a club head well ahead of the hands at impact. Flip the camera upside down, now the image of the club head is captured before the image of the hands - in this case the distortion will be cause the club shaft to appear to be bending back to a club head that is trailing the hands. Turning the camera upside does not affect the amount of distortion related with the rolling shutter effect.

I then asked you to calculate the of error associated with a shutter speed of 1/5000th of a second (happens to be the shutter speed I use on my Casio fh20). The speed of the rolling shutter directly effects how much distortion will be present in the final image. If the picture image has the hands centered and the club at the very bottom, then the image of the hands will be captured ~.0001 seconds before the image of the club head. How far will the club head have moved in that time (it is simple math, you should be able to do it)? Next, try it with the Phantom v2511 which has a frame rate of 25600/sec. In this case, the maximum time between the capture of the hands and the club head is ~.0000195 seconds (actually less as the phantom has a mechanical shutter that blacks the full sensor between image captures). How far will the club head have moved in that time? Finally, which picture will have more time distortion due to rolling shutter effect?

So, what exactly do you think reading up on rolling shutter effect is going to teach me? Come on, I want to see you contribute something here other than unimaginative sarcasm.

edit: added "amount of"

[Jacob Mac]

So what are the chances that DJ really thinks that turning his camera upside down gets rid of the rolling shutter effect and that he bases his groundbreaking research on some of the pictures he took with an upside down camera?

[northgolf]

[quote name='Jacob Mac' timestamp='1430135219' post='11449579']
So what are the chances that DJ really thinks that turning his camera upside down gets rid of the rolling shutter effect and that he bases his groundbreaking research on some of the pictures he took with an upside down camera?
[/quote]

You would hope he was more intelligent than that, but, given he wrote post 207, the chances are fairly high.

[TB07]

The 10th page of this thread should consist of a copy and paste of all questions that have not been answered.

[CrabDaddy]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1430137322' post='11449703']
The 10th page of this thread should consist of a copy and paste of all questions that will never be answered.
[/quote]
FIFY ... er, fixed it for you. Gotta be careful around here.

[NCHACK85]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1430137322' post='11449703']
The 10th page of this thread should consist of a copy and paste of all questions that have not been answered.
[/quote]
2nd the motion

[mudge]

[quote name='Jacob Mac' timestamp='1430135219' post='11449579']
So what are the chances that DJ really thinks that turning his camera upside down gets rid of the rolling shutter effect and that he bases his groundbreaking research on some of the pictures he took with an upside down camera?
[/quote]

His groundbreaking research is based on keeping your head in an imaginary box during the entire swing.

[mudge]

[quote name='CrabDaddy' timestamp='1430141458' post='11450081']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1430137322' post='11449703']
The 10th page of this thread should consist of a copy and paste of all questions that will never be answered.
[/quote]
FIFY ... er, fixed it for you. Gotta be careful around here.
[/quote]

That'd comprise every DJ Watts post on the site!

[tembolo1284]

so how's big toilet doing

[Chief Cowpie]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1430768553' post='11497057']
so how's big toilet doing
[/quote]

Flushing it!

[Chief Cowpie]

[quote name='Jacob Mac' timestamp='1430135219' post='11449579']
So what are the chances that DJ really thinks that turning his camera upside down gets rid of the rolling shutter effect and that he bases his groundbreaking research on some of the pictures he took with an upside down camera?
[/quote]

It doesn't get rid of, it just reverses it. Normally the distortion would be at the bottom but by turning camera upside down, the distortion is at the top and since his head doesn't move anyway, there will be no distortion of stillness, which is actually quite Zen if you think or more accurately, if you don't think about it.

[DJ Watts]

So what are the chances that DJ really thinks that turning his camera upside down gets rid of the rolling shutter effect and that he bases his groundbreaking research on some of the pictures he took with an upside down camera?

 

It doesn't get rid of, it just reverses it. Normally the distortion would be at the bottom but by turning camera upside down, the distortion is at the top and since his head doesn't move anyway, there will be no distortion of stillness, which is actually quite Zen if you think or more accurately, if you don't think about it.

 

I don't know about Zen, Chief - but yes, you explained it succinctly, thanks.

 

For example, driver sequence from today:

 

 

-----

 

DJ

[iteachgolf]

So what are the chances that DJ really thinks that turning his camera upside down gets rid of the rolling shutter effect and that he bases his groundbreaking research on some of the pictures he took with an upside down camera?

 

It doesn't get rid of, it just reverses it. Normally the distortion would be at the bottom but by turning camera upside down, the distortion is at the top and since his head doesn't move anyway, there will be no distortion of stillness, which is actually quite Zen if you think or more accurately, if you don't think about it.

 

I don't know about Zen, Chief - but yes, you explained it succinctly, thanks.

 

For example, driver sequence from today:

 

 

-----

 

DJ

 

Do you think that's an ideal swing?

[northgolf]

[quote name='Chief Cowpie' timestamp='1430769593' post='11497181']
[quote name='Jacob Mac' timestamp='1430135219' post='11449579']
So what are the chances that DJ really thinks that turning his camera upside down gets rid of the rolling shutter effect and that he bases his groundbreaking research on some of the pictures he took with an upside down camera?
[/quote]

It doesn't get rid of, it just reverses it. Normally the distortion would be at the bottom but by turning camera upside down, the distortion is at the top and since his head doesn't move anyway, there will be no distortion of stillness, which is actually quite Zen if you think or more accurately, if you don't think about it.
[/quote]

Wrong, completely wrong. Time distortion occurs across the entire picture frame (there is always distortion at the top, middle, and bottom as one row is always processed later in time than the next row whether it is going from top to bottom or bottom to top). Turning the camera upside down does not change the speed of the rolling shutter.

Reason for edit: added parenthetical explanation

[Fade]

[quote name='Jacob Mac' timestamp='1430119203' post='11449279']
[quote name='mudge' timestamp='1430092417' post='11447211']
[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1430091160' post='11447091']
So you trade one distorted perception for another? Why not get a high speed camera?
[/quote]

It is a high speed camera. You should read up on the rolling shutter effect.
[/quote]

How does turning the camera upside down stop the rolling shutter effect?
[/quote]

He probably means he turns it 90 degrees, 'landscape' to 'portrait'.

[tembolo1284]

what happened with DJ Watts?

[QMany]

[quote name='Chief Cowpie' timestamp='1429641973' post='11408955']
Hello friends,

DJ Watts is in preparation to begin his scientific presentation and verification of the UMCS to the world that will take approximately 2 weeks time. [b] The world has waited many hundreds of years for the perfection of the golf swing and so I think 2 more weeks shouldn't be too much more to ask. [/b] Thank you for your patience. All your questions shall be answered.

The best, Chief Cowpie
[/quote]
I waited two weeks. I'm waiting for all of my questions to be answered.

[North Texas]

So what are the chances that DJ really thinks that turning his camera upside down gets rid of the rolling shutter effect and that he bases his groundbreaking research on some of the pictures he took with an upside down camera?

 

It doesn't get rid of, it just reverses it. Normally the distortion would be at the bottom but by turning camera upside down, the distortion is at the top and since his head doesn't move anyway, there will be no distortion of stillness, which is actually quite Zen if you think or more accurately, if you don't think about it.

 

I don't know about Zen, Chief - but yes, you explained it succinctly, thanks.

 

For example, driver sequence from today:

 

 

-----

 

DJ

 

Do you think that's an ideal swing?

 

Am I the only one that, when looking at this swing, thinks EE?

[virtuoso]

[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1430848240' post='11503695']
[quote name='Chief Cowpie' timestamp='1429641973' post='11408955']
Hello friends,

DJ Watts is in preparation to begin his scientific presentation and verification of the UMCS to the world that will take approximately 2 weeks time. [b] The world has waited many hundreds of years for the perfection of the golf swing and so I think 2 more weeks shouldn't be too much more to ask. [/b] Thank you for your patience. All your questions shall be answered.

The best, Chief Cowpie
[/quote]
I waited two weeks. I'm waiting for all of my questions to be answered.
[/quote]

I'm anxious to hear the results as well.

[tembolo1284]

DJ is probably partying with those really hot supermodels in Montreal.

Bless him.

[vman]

I like his swing.It's balanced and free with good rhythm.Of course I've never seen the ball flight and it looks like there may be some consistency issues but golf swings are always a work in progress.

[puppydrum1]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1430849033' post='11503795']
DJ is probably partying with those really hot supermodels in Montreal.

Bless him.

[/quote]

He is clearly helping the Habs players get their golf games ready for their summer off. But in all seriousness I would like to see some wedge swings and his thoughts about the scoring clubs that require prescion and control of the low point.

[Schnee]

I'd like to see the data too.