Why play a split set with blades? And why are we drawn to blades??

[Tree Levino]

There are some Apex MB sets on BST (for instance https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1801952/fs-callaway-mb-iron-set-6-pw-modus-120s-tour-ad-di-7s-with-epic-flash-fw-adapter-vokey-sm-sm7-set#latest)

Just grab some heads and throw them into the short irons and then the investment is less. FWIW I do believe that @pinestreetgolf is very right in the assessment of long clubs. A lot of the guys I play with should not be playing from the back as they are often having to hit long irons for second shots on par 4s. Long par 3s don't really matter as you can tee it up. If I'm playing 6500-6700 yards, I'm not hitting more than an 8 iron into a green for the most part. (I.e second shot is going to be 160-170 max) blades are no issue for me in that regard. 100% they are way more demanding in a 4 iron than something with help. Those who deny this point are simply contradicting themselves as they say blades are superior because of workability etc etc i.e the ability to move the ball (or MISS if this is done unintentionally) is greater. If I'm playing over 7000 yards I'd happily put a 4 hybrid in the bag. That 200-220 range is where you can get in trouble on second shots in and pretty much NO amateur is better off playing a bladed 3 or 4 iron no matter what story they spin.

[aenemated]

I just ordered my MP-20's the other day - MMC from 4-7 and MB from 8-PW. Probably the main reason is the look at address. The MMC's just looked too chunky on the shorter irons and given I've been playing a full set of blades, it's what I prefer to see at address. It did strike me as a bit odd that the MMCs didn't slim down in the shorter irons but no worries. Super stoked about getting these guys into play.

[MtlJeff]

I disagree a little bit with Pinestreet though. A well designed course will force you to hit plenty of different kinds of shots. Though not everyone plays well designed courses or has access to them in their area

I hit tons of long irons, and my proclivity for thumping balls is the stuff of internet lore.

My home course is 6600-6800 from the tips (27 holes) but has lots of doglegs. One of the 9s you can easily play it without hitting driver . It has two par 3s that are 200yds and two par 4s that are 450 that you probably shouldn't hit driver on.

I honestly wont buy an iron set unless I can hit the 3-5 irons because of the course I play.

I dont "work" them though . Stock shot every time is great for me

[MelloYello]

That's pretty characteristic of Mizuno irons, actually.

 

Back when I played the MP-64 irons I thought the same about their short irons (as did many other 64 owners). And yet, those 64's were definitely some of the sweetest-feeling irons I've ever played, beating out a slew of pure blades. So, hey, everything has its draw-backs.

[MelloYello]

Yeah, unlike some of the guys on this board who apparently sit somewhere in the OWGR top-50, I do not pure every single shot.

 

That is never a claim I will make, LOL. :)

[MelloYello]

I'm a "decent contact" player and that's why I play CBs.

 

In my experience, a set of MB irons is built for the kind of daily-practicer who's doing better than "decent."

[MelloYello]

Spot on. Long iron play is tested on tour with 200- to 250-yd Par-3 holes and reachable Par-5's but it's very rarely forced on the recreational player who sees their long irons get the least amount of use of any club in the bag. And for that level of player, a hybrid almost always allows a much wider margin for error (as you aptly pointed out).

 

Long irons don't really effect my scorecard unless I'm dumping them into water hazards and making doubles or triples. If I could assure myself a par-and-a-half off each long-iron (rare as they are), that's plenty good enough to remain a low single-digit handicap. Nobody is making birdies off 3- and 4-irons. And nobody should be hitting those clubs into a green more than 2-3 times a round before considering something more user-friendly. And quite frankly, par is a GREAT score from 200-yds out which is why I said, there are a million other more important things to worry about.

 

My experience with hybrids is that they keep you pin-high while traditional MB/CB irons keep you on line. Getting the best of both and hitting a truly great shot requires a near perfect strike. That's just not something that most folks can guarantee each and every time they pull out a 3- or 4-iron. Some prefer to keep it on line knowing they can miss short. Some prefer to get the distance right knowing that the hybrid offers a great option not just on Par-3 holes but on Par-5s as well.

 

With all the light-weight shafts options out there these days, there are some surprisingly friendly long irons. My CB 3- and 4-iron are not bad at all. I can elevate them pretty nicely. The only instances in which I would ever insist that a hybrid is objectively better is when I get down to low lofts in the 17- to 19-degree range. At least for me, there's no advantage to an iron in that scenario.

 

At 33 yo, the days of hitting 240-yd 2-irons are evidently in my past. I might sneak one out 220 these days if I nuke it but here in the Carolinas where it's soft, a 2-iron is just not a useful play unless you're an ultra-powerful player who's looking for a 240-yd tee shot.

 

(If you're reading this and that's you, congrats. Enjoy it while you got it, pal.) :)

[Mikepaul]

I recently moved from blades to the apex pro 19, the one reason; the AP19 launch higher than blades - that was my issue with lower lofted irons.

 

ask yourself this question, do I benefit from cavity back clubs, if the answer is no stick with blades.

(if you flush your irons and can control trajectory and hit them a good distance - you don’t need cavity back clubs)

[aenemated]

News to me! The only Mizunos I've ever had were some MP-14s ... god, 20+ years ago.

Buddy I play with often is a hardcore Mizuno guy - he's gonna flip out when I show up for the next round with the MP-20s haha.

[MelloYello]

Dude, those will be so sweet! Enjoy them, man.

 

I have a friend with some MP-59s that are badly in need of replacing. I'm trying to push him towards a blade. He needs to have that experience, LOL.

 

But yeah, those Mizunos you're getting are some of the best-looking clubs I've ever seen. They're definitely head-turners. I had TItleist MBs last year and got tons of compliments from folks of all handicap levels. There's definitely something about a clean-looking blade. The look (and feel) is just remarkable. And Mizuno is right at the top these days IMHO.

[NRJyzr]

 

My experience is different. I don't practice, just work towards a goal of playing 2-3+ times per week. I don't have a problem hitting blades. I don't have a problem hitting long irons. Until a couple years ago, I didn't have a problem hitting an iron with 17* loft, even off the deck (aging sucks). I don't often try moving the ball laterally.

I also don't have a particular problem hitting persimmon/laminate woods.

Been down this road many times. Spent a full year playing Eye2+. Just doesn't matter to my scoring. In fact, could argue the blades produce a bit better for me, with the exception of those Eye2+.

[MelloYello]

Yeah, I think playing is really the key. Understanding how to manage from one lie to another is something that's easily missed standing on the range trying to perfect your form in a static environment. I have always gotten worse on the scorecard during extended stretches of beating balls. I almost have to stop myself from doing that because it's not really practice at all.

 

Back when I started at golf I really fell in love with the idea that every shot was a unique calculation. I think playing blades and learning about how Woods and Hogan played the game had a lot to do with approaching it that way. As time has gone on and I've moved towards a more steady and consistent iron game I've been able to appreciate CBs for what they do. Perimeter weighting seem to mute the feel of impact and reduce the tendency to open/close the face through impact. It's easy to see why they can help players hit the ball straighter (or at least deliver that impression via a more consistent feeling shot to shot).

 

But at the same time, if I had to create a shot on demand there wouldn't be much doubt in my mind that, even if just due to weighting and balance, a blade would give me the best chance of pulling it off. Still, for me, that equates to hero golf and to over-thinking. And I've typically played golf better the less I'm thinking.

[NRJyzr]

 

In the vein of mildly related....

In the discussion of golf balls and how they travel differently than in Ye Olde Days, I think MOI is a lot larger player than most pay attention to. Drivers, fairways, hybrids, irons, and even putters, shots all go straighter with higher MOI. Many blame the ball, but I think it's MOI.

/end threadjack

[Tree Levino]

With the clubs you're playing you get MOST of the workability and feedback. The MB is much more direct even in comparison to the CB (I played a split set this season) but there is undeniable help elevating bottomed shots with the CB and the toe help is also there is spades. Basically, there are advantages to both but saying CBs don't help forgiveness is false. How much that is actually going to affect your score is more to do with your short game.

[NRJyzr]

 

Depends on the CB, and the blade it's compared to. For some mixed sets, there's surprisingly little difference in MOI.

[Tree Levino]

Not all irons are created equal and I am quite sure it is easy to make a terrible CB. I'm a blade lover so you're preaching to the choir. Have MP20 MB and am looking at a set of MB001 right now.

[NRJyzr]

 

Just felt obliged to post that, though it was stating the obvious. There are some over the years who've seemed to think once a cavity is cut in the back of the club, its suddenly in the G410 class for forgiveness.

[Tree Levino]

Agreed. And truthfully it really depends on how you strike the ball and at what speed. I notice help in a 4 iron that's about it. I stated in a previous thread that my best shot of the season was a second into a par 5. Had 195 into breeze to a water guarded shallow green. Hit a knock down 5 with my MP20 blade and dead stopped it to 5 or 10 feet. I had no issue mentally with that shot. Some might though. There is a huge mental element to this game.

[biffstix]

@balls_deep
when are you going to settle on a set of irons?!

[Tree Levino]

NEVER. But more seriously I have decided that I'm going to give blades a good run. This season I've used Titleist CB/MB combo, iBlades, 785, and MP20. All had their merits. I think if I had a gun to my head I'd probably play the 785 forever because they are quite forgiving while feeling amazing. I'm a little worried about my cash outlay on the MP20 as I got dinged with duty bringing them in so deciding whether to keep or sell. If I sell I'll be playing either Miura MB 001 or MC 501. All much of a muchness I suppose.

[biffstix]

I hear ya. Take the 785, shrink it 15%, reinsert tungsten, and weaken the lofts. There’s the perfect iron

[Tree Levino]

You could literally not be more on point. It's too big - particularly in the scoring irons. The top line could also do with shaping shaving on the back - it's a bit boxy. Lofts should be playing off a 34 7 iron with 4 degree scoring iron gaps. If that existed I don't know if other irons in this bracket would actually sell...

[biffstix]

To the op’s point the mp20/hmb looks like A very tasty combo. If I drink the cool aid completely there is a txg video where voshal says that the hmb long irons are not low spin rocket launchers but direct long iron replacements. Plenty of get up with low tungsten. A right handed version of SEL is very intriguing.

I don’t like playing short irons with wide soles. If it’s a flat lie and long haired fairway, ok. Ball above the feet? No, toes gonna dig in. Ball in the rough with a tuft of grass behind the ball? No, I want to come down on that back quadrant of available ball first and bring the knife into the grass.

The grey area is between the 4 & 5. I love a hot 4 iron. It’s been a savior off the tee. The 5 could go both ways. Plenty of blade 5 irons have been hit thin and been just fine. The blade 5 toe is no fun.

Mizzy has done a great job with this line. With so many other lines more cavity meant more offset. Like, we’ll this sum biatch can’t hit the ball so let’s crank that damn hosel, help the mofo out.

[aenemated]

Pretty stoked. When I did my whole "hit every new iron" test a couple weeks back, they were the only ones aside from the Ping Blueprints I really enjoyed.

Now I'll just have to learn my new distances as I was getting a good club longer due to the loft and forgiveness compared to my Vapors. 8 and 9 MB I ordered a degree stronger to reduce the gap. And ideally see a little less left-to-right as these are a degree flat; which I was fitted to but never did bend the Vapors to.

[Tree Levino]

To be honest I got fit for these right at the end of the season. Shaft optimizer spat out a few shafts, I hit them, had great results (couldn’t miss) and I found the exact set second hand the next day. Felt too good to be true. It was near freezing temperatures when I tried them on course and I just couldn’t consistently time the $tapers. The range session and rounds I had though did show some surprising forgiveness. The 5 iron was the easiest to hit of any blade I’ve tried I think.

[mxskier]

The MP20/HMB is sort of what I'm looking for, but I don't get along too well with the MP grind. Hence my preference for the apex MB that moves through the turf like butter for my swing.

A small part of me worries about the transition from the bladed 7 iron to the apex pro 6 iron with the cupface and having a large distance gap there. How did those of you that transition from blades to more forgiving longer irons deal with that transition? Or did you see one to begin with at all?

[DixieD]

33 and you are accepting 20 yard distance loss? Get in shape man you have plenty of years to bomb it yet!

[bvanlieu]

 

Weakened the lofts as needed, gaps fine. I think people way over think it. Like the boogey man, it is better to keep the alive the hot tech face flyer narrative. : D

 

If you are good with the looks (and I can appreciate not liking how something sits to your eye) then mix and match to your hearts content.

[MtlJeff]

33???? Dude that's prime age. Lebron is the best basketball player in the world at 34 lol

The fastest I've ever been clocked on trackman was at 38yrs old (118.6 mph)

Dont give up now dude.

[2over]

Mr. Miura, the master iron maker, wrote an article years ago that small headed muscle back blades are the ultimate game improvement club because they get through all lies, turf conditions the best. The amount of help you get from a mishit with a cavity vs. a blade is really quite small, and mostly psychological. I have verified the truth of this myself on range and on course. A mishit that costs me 10 yards with a blade is still going to cost me 8-9 yards with a player’s cavity, if that (Mizuno MP-18 actually had just as good a Maltby score as Apex pros!). Not enough to have me putting instead of chipping, really, hardly ever. 

 

I’ve played forged muscle-back blades since I was 6 (50 years!). I’ve dabbled with cavity backs a few times in the 90’s and always came running back to blades (mostly Mizuno, but have had Titleist and before that Hogan and before that Ram) because I played and scored better with the blades. The shot feedback (I hit a fair number of balls vs. actual playing) lets me know exactly where and how much I miss a shot that allows me to subconsciously correct. And the less club/sole you have to get through the turf, the easier bad lies are. 

 

I had a Mizuno MP-20 HMB 4 iron that I played for a month or two. Finally, I realized I actually hit the MP-18 blade better, more consistently and just as far (I’ve bent my MP-18 to 22.5*). So the HMB got sold. There really is no point at all in a split set. I just like the look of a blade and it inspires confidence in me. The psychological factor is probably the greatest, but objectively there’s plenty of evidence that says 4-PW blades are fine for any halfway decent ball striker.

 

Get 4-PW Cally MB. They are very sweet and you will be happy.