New and Improved Shaft Chart

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='MattTitleist' timestamp='1330659681' post='4416399']
Howard, any idea on how the new PXi relates to the normal PX for freq?
[/quote]

True feel of flex is impossible to predict from butt CPM only, and i only got 1 set of PXi so i only had 1 single #6 iron/39.00 shaft to measure, but there is no doubt that this shaft is softer butt side compared to the standard.

Marked for cut down to standard #6 iron at 37.50 with butt cap, measured with a 2.5 clamp and 255 gram head weight:

PX 6.5 - 340
PX 6.5 F - 336
PXi 6.5 - 314

As you ca see BUTT is much softer, but the label say 6.5 but PX is NOT FCM matched, and since i have not got anyone to test this shaft side by side with the others yet, i cant tell much about spin, launch or if it really feels softer than 5.5 (see below)

For reference

PX 6.5 = 340
PX 6.5F = 336
PX 6.0 = 338
PX 6.0F = 335
PX 5.5 `= 330
PX 5.5F = 326

Numbers are not ready to convert to FCM values. They are only for direct compare

[jpalermo]

Question:

The chart says that 6.0 ss 1x would frequency out at 6.1... Does it change anything if they are flighted?

Question 2:

On a .355 taper tip PX 6.0 Flighted if I tip them 1/4 and soft step them 1x will they frequency out around 6.2/6.3?

Thanks in advance.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='jpalermo' timestamp='1331328595' post='4472013']
Question:
The chart says that 6.0 ss 1x would frequency out at 6.1... Does it change anything if they are flighted?
Question 2:
On a .355 taper tip PX 6.0 Flighted if I tip them 1/4 and soft step them 1x will they frequency out around 6.2/6.3?
Thanks in advance.
[/quote]

Look at the post above. F means flighted, and Flighted is more/less the same as SS1 or minus 4 cpm in average difference

PX 6.5 = 340
PX 6.5F = 336
PX 6.0 = 338
PX 6.0F = 335
PX 5.5 `= 330
PX 5.5F = 326

9/16-1/8 Tip trim is equal to plus 1 cpm, so a tip trim of 1/4 should give plus 2 cpm

PX 6.0 Flighted should be equal to FCM 6.1 strait in.
1/4 tip trim gains 2 cpm, so now you should have 6.3
Then you soft step them and loose 4 cpm, and you end up at 5.9

PS! Most hosels accept 3/8 of tip trim on taper tips without problems, if there is more space you might trim more.
Its not unusual to be able to trim 0.5 who gives you up to 4 cpm extra if needed, but the best is to FLO them to match

[Breeves85]

Mr. Jones,

I am currently playing DG parallel shafts at x100. the irons are cut to 3/8" increments based on a 39" 3 iron. 3-5 are good, they get out there and penetrate the air like they shoud and i can hit them higher and lower as i see fit. They do balloon a little but It is useful for long approach shots. the 6 hits high and for the most part has a penatrative flight, i am still satisfied with what I can do with it. My issue is with the 7-8-9 irons. In order to get the flight I want I have to play them at least one ball back of center. I can sting, punch and flight it low to medium all day long at 140-180 yards, the problem is when I play them slightly forward in my stance(2 balls forward of center at the most) they get real inconsistent. the 9 iron may fly 130 and the 7 110 if I flush it when it should be going closer to the 140-180 range. I have to hit it thin to get a good flight from that ball position. Even my "stock" shot jumps high and then just falls out of the sky.

My swing has a quick tempo, 6 iron speed is 99, and i play the ball with my mid and short irons just forward of center about a ball. Since they are parallels, should I hardstep twice or just have new shafts trimmed an extra 1.5 inches at the tip?

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='Breeves85' timestamp='1331996636' post='4524601']
Mr. Jones,

I am currently playing DG parallel shafts at x100. the irons are cut to 3/8" increments based on a 39" 3 iron. 3-5 are good, they get out there and penetrate the air like they shoud and i can hit them higher and lower as i see fit. They do balloon a little but It is useful for long approach shots. the 6 hits high and for the most part has a penatrative flight, i am still satisfied with what I can do with it. My issue is with the 7-8-9 irons. In order to get the flight I want I have to play them at least one ball back of center. I can sting, punch and flight it low to medium all day long at 140-180 yards, the problem is when I play them slightly forward in my stance(2 balls forward of center at the most) they get real inconsistent. the 9 iron may fly 130 and the 7 110 if I flush it when it should be going closer to the 140-180 range. I have to hit it thin to get a good flight from that ball position. Even my "stock" shot jumps high and then just falls out of the sky.

My swing has a quick tempo, 6 iron speed is 99, and i play the ball with my mid and short irons just forward of center about a ball. Since they are parallels, should I hardstep twice or just have new shafts trimmed an extra 1.5 inches at the tip?
[/quote]

I dont think i can help you fully out with that one. The mid and short irons are not design to be played forward in the stance, unless its a special shot where you need to get over trees or something. You cant expect length if you play your short irons in front of your stance. Tipping want change that much since loft at impact is what counts, and when you move the ball forward you reduce angle of attack for more effective loft at impact. If you want the ball flight lower, you got 2 ways to go.
Place the ball further back in the stance, or go down on loft.

Your club speed is in the high end for using DGX100. In your shoes, ive be looking for a set Tour X7, the stiffer brother of X100. The DGX100 plays to FCM 6.8 strait in, while X7 plays to FCM 7.5, or another flex class up. They will bring the flight down in all irons, but they are not easy to find. TT just stopped production of this model, but there is some sets out there.

A special thing about the X7 is the short irons who goes all the way up to SW. They dont stop at the #9 iron like regular DG does, so it will be quite another shaft for your short irons than what your are used to. Try the PFC dealer locator, and find someone nearby who can help you if you want this shafts.Use you Zip code for search here : http://performancefittingcenter.com/pfc/index.php?j=locator

I still got 1 set of Tour X7 #2 - #SW in stock but im in Europe ;-(

[BHUNTER]

NICE JOB THANK YOU...........

[dunn]

I think some over analyze this way to much........

On my own I have swung kbs stiff and a dgr300

I didn't lose control with either and the reg being a
Hair longer and higher

I am a believer that after going from a 6.0 flex to a 4.8 flex that as long as your fairly close to your recommended swing flex you will have more worries with your swing than with the shaft flex!!!!

So these .2 flex comments are kind of irrelevant..... Hard time believing it's gonna make a difference

Find the feel you like and get it close within 1/2 fcm and you be good........ .1 or .2 is not gonna change your
Slice or hook.......

[hvilletn]

Let me ask and see if someone can respond. How would a Project X 6.0 that was 0.25" long in a head with a D3 Swingweight impact the flight as compared to a standard PX 6.0? Does swingweight impact a shaft's playability/feel?

[hvilletn]

By the way, thanks for this chart Mr. Jones. I, too, owe you a beer when you are in Nashville, TN area . . .

[hvilletn]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1326438533' post='4076093']
[quote name='TCNorthstars' timestamp='1311175999' post='3407410']
Any idea where black gold regular flex would fit on that chart?
[/quote]

[b]CPM slope progression compare. DG vs Black Gold[/b]

Swing weight D3, no grip
This are avarage results of 3 sets,(DG) so this values might vary due to tolerances and FLO, but they do give a snapshot of the differences. Black Gold are converted numbers from published CPM values from TT

Length / Butt cpm
[b]
DGS300 Taper[/b]

39.00 = 307
38.50 = 312
38.00 = 317
37.50 = 323
37.00 = 328
36.50 = 335
36.00 = 340
35.50 = 347

[b]DGR300 Taper[/b]

39.00 = 281
38.50 = 286
38.00 = 292
37.50 = 297
37.00 = 303
36.50 = 308
36.00 = 313
35.50 = 317

[b]Black Gold S flex[/b] - Converted numbers Published CPM numbers from TT

39.00 = 322
38.50 = 326
38.00 = 330
37.50 = 334
37.00 = 339
36.50 = 343
36.00 = 347
35.50 = 351

[b]Black Gold R flex[/b]

39.00 = 309
38.50 = 313
38.00 = 317
37.50 = 321
37.00 = 326
36.50 = 330
36.00 = 334
35.50 = 338

Im not done with over length shafts, so at the moment i cant give you those numbers, but they will be included in my next chart with 0.5, 1.0 and 1.5 over length
[/quote]


Should have read this before previous posts. I am dying to see the overlength numbers. Particularly those related to 0.5" although I am only over 0.25".

[pengki1]

mr jones,

i started out using DGR300 in my irons when first started golf, after lessons i got fitted a year later and was recommended stiff ns pro 950 gh

its been 4 years now with the ns pros and was recently fitted for my driver, 3wood and hybrid

current specs.

driver - titleist 910 d2 10.5 matrix ozik tp6hd x-flex 71g.
3 wood - titleist 910 fd 15 proforce v2 s-flex 86 g.
hybrid - titleist 910 h 19 proforce v2 x-flex 100 g. ( i was reccomended a stiff but could only find x but suprisingly is my go to club atm, most accurate)

this got me thinking that is it time to change my iron shafts and i was going to purchase the s300's then i read this thread... and maybe px would be better
what model dg or px would coincide with my current specs for driver and woods?

great info by the way

thanks for any help in advance.

[Howard_Jones]

I cant help much with the info provided, but if you fit to play x-flex in both your driver and your hybrid S300 [u]sounds[/u] to weak.
If 100 gram shaft weight is good for you in your hybrid club, your iron shafts i way to light, but DG is in the other end of the street, they are heavy.
Go see a club fitter, thats the best you can do, because there is to much "wide" in weight and flex in what you got know, so if the latest stuff fits you, your irons must be hard to play. If you should go PX, or PXI, DG, or DGSL or some ting else, i would not know. Ballcurve, dispersion, and roll out under control should be target, but it does not hurt if you like the feel of your new clubs too, and since feel is very personal, there is only one who can tell what feels right, and thats you.

[PingDrv00]

Howard,
Do you have any idea where the True Temper Monaco's would fit on the chart? It is really difficult to find any flex or info on them.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='PingDrv00' timestamp='1333378636' post='4630067']
Howard,
Do you have any idea where the True Temper Monaco's would fit on the chart? It is really difficult to find any flex or info on them.
[/quote]

To give you a quick answer i will have to take a short cut....
Measured with a 2.5 clamp with a 255 gram head weight the #6 iron (38.50) give this values on True Temper Tour Issue models.

Tour Concept S = 296
DG S400 Tour Issue = 307
Tour Prototype S = 307
DG X100 Tour Issue = 314
Tour Prototype X = 314
Tour Prototype TX = 324
Tour X 7 = 326

If we start by saying X100 is equal to FCM 6.8 the numbers above will fall into place like this

Tour Concept S = 4.8
DG S400 Tour Issue = 5.9
Tour Prototype S = 5.9
DG X100 Tour Issue = 6.8 (Benchmark)
Tour Prototype X = 6.8
Tour Prototype TX = 7.8
Tour X 7 = 8.0

BUT, this is shaft measured at full length, and nobody ever plays them that way, so i cant guarantee that the shaft follows the same FCM value when cut down, but as full length shafts this numbers should be right. If you see the values in the chart who start this tread, both S400 and X7 is out if specs, but im not finished with all shafts i have to measure to launch a new chart, who will contain numbers at different playing lengths, so this is the best answer i can give you at the moment

[PingDrv00]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1333385707' post='4630903']
[quote name='PingDrv00' timestamp='1333378636' post='4630067']
Howard,
Do you have any idea where the True Temper Monaco's would fit on the chart? It is really difficult to find any flex or info on them.
[/quote]

To give you a quick answer i will have to take a short cut....
Measured with a 2.5 clamp with a 255 gram head weight the #6 iron (38.50) give this values on True Temper Tour Issue models.

Tour Concept S = 296
DG S400 Tour Issue = 307
Tour Prototype S = 307
DG X100 Tour Issue = 314
Tour Prototype X = 314
Tour Prototype TX = 324
Tour X 7 = 326

If we start by saying X100 is equal to FCM 6.8 the numbers above will fall into place like this

Tour Concept S = 4.8
DG S400 Tour Issue = 5.9
Tour Prototype S = 5.9
DG X100 Tour Issue = 6.8 (Benchmark)
Tour Prototype X = 6.8
Tour Prototype TX = 7.8
Tour X 7 = 8.0

BUT, this is shaft measured at full length, and nobody ever plays them that way, so i cant guarantee that the shaft follows the same FCM value when cut down, but as full length shafts this numbers should be right. If you see the values in the chart who start this tread, both S400 and X7 is out if specs, but im not finished with all shafts i have to measure to launch a new chart, who will contain numbers at different playing lengths, so this is the best answer i can give you at the moment
[/quote]

I appreciate the quick reply. It seems that stiff straight in might be the way to go. I was worried they might be a bit too stiff. It is really hard to find any concrete info on them at all. They are intriguing to say the least.

[dawnpatrol]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1333385707' post='4630903']
[quote name='PingDrv00' timestamp='1333378636' post='4630067']
Howard,
Do you have any idea where the True Temper Monaco's would fit on the chart? It is really difficult to find any flex or info on them.
[/quote]

To give you a quick answer i will have to take a short cut....
Measured with a 2.5 clamp with a 255 gram head weight the #6 iron (38.50) give this values on True Temper Tour Issue models.

Tour Concept S = 296
DG S400 Tour Issue = 307
Tour Prototype S = 307
DG X100 Tour Issue = 314
Tour Prototype X = 314
Tour Prototype TX = 324
Tour X 7 = 326

If we start by saying X100 is equal to FCM 6.8 the numbers above will fall into place like this

Tour Concept S = 4.8
DG S400 Tour Issue = 5.9
Tour Prototype S = 5.9
DG X100 Tour Issue = 6.8 (Benchmark)
Tour Prototype X = 6.8
Tour Prototype TX = 7.8
Tour X 7 = 8.0

BUT, this is shaft measured at full length, and nobody ever plays them that way, so i cant guarantee that the shaft follows the same FCM value when cut down, but as full length shafts this numbers should be right. If you see the values in the chart who start this tread, both S400 and X7 is out if specs, but im not finished with all shafts i have to measure to launch a new chart, who will contain numbers at different playing lengths, so this is the best answer i can give you at the moment
[/quote]

Wowzers, 4.8 Tour Concept S? That really soft, would that put the R3 around 3.8 and then 3.6 in the long irons?

[mpstein]

Chart is great but I don't seen DGS400 hardstepped. Any measure on that?

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='mpcumstein' timestamp='1334433962' post='4721658']
Chart is great but I don't seen DGS400 hardstepped. Any measure on that?
[/quote]

On Dynamic Gold, count 3 cpm either way you go, so if S400 is FCM 6.1 strait in, they will be 6.4 HS1 or 5.8 as SS1

[mpstein]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1334441238' post='4722178']
[quote name='mpcumstein' timestamp='1334433962' post='4721658']
Chart is great but I don't seen DGS400 hardstepped. Any measure on that?
[/quote]

On Dynamic Gold, count 3 cpm either way you go, so if S400 is FCM 6.1 strait in, they will be 6.4 HS1 or 5.8 as SS1
[/quote]

Great rule of thumb. Thank you. I've got x100 ss1x and was wondering how s400 hs1x would compare in terms of launch spin and tip stiffness.

[lefty_norwegian]

Need help regarding choosing the right iron shafts.
Played with Project X 6.5 (Satin)+0.5" since it came out. Brooke the 6 iron shaft in the grip..thinking it is time to move on. I have always liked the PX feel, but a smoother feel is welcome. I am a driver/digger, hitter. 3/4 swing, quick transision, ss 6-iron 95-97mph, mid flight, carry 190-195 yards. Do not want any higher flight, weight 125+-5g.
Thinking of going C-taper route..what flex?
Thanks!

[SwooshLT]

Howard, any experience with SS three times?

[imaplus3wannaplay]

[quote name='SwooshLT' timestamp='1335213384' post='4775534']
Howard, any experience with SS three times?
[/quote]

There's not much reason to do this as you could just install a softer shaft.

[SwooshLT]

[quote name='imaplus3wannaplay' timestamp='1335499646' post='4798342']
[quote name='SwooshLT' timestamp='1335213384' post='4775534']
Howard, any experience with SS three times?
[/quote]

There's not much reason to do this as you could just install a softer shaft.
[/quote]


Well actually the fcm chart provided says that I'm a 4.4 guy.....5.0 px ss three times is roughly that.....when I asked the question , I hadn't done it yet.......I did it with two clubs...... The results are as I hoped.....great flight and very tight dispersion without shaft feeling too light or too low bend point....got a strange need but finding 4.5's or softer is pretty hard......no worries as I've answer my own question

[Santa Cruz Angel]

Thx, for the cool chart

[imaplus3wannaplay]

[quote name='SwooshLT' timestamp='1335539966' post='4800288']
[quote name='imaplus3wannaplay' timestamp='1335499646' post='4798342']
[quote name='SwooshLT' timestamp='1335213384' post='4775534']
Howard, any experience with SS three times?
[/quote]

There's not much reason to do this as you could just install a softer shaft.
[/quote]


Well actually the fcm chart provided says that I'm a 4.4 guy.....5.0 px ss three times is roughly that.....when I asked the question , I hadn't done it yet.......I did it with two clubs...... The results are as I hoped.....great flight and very tight dispersion without shaft feeling too light or too low bend point....got a strange need but finding 4.5's or softer is pretty hard......no worries as I've answer my own question
[/quote]

Oh... I see your dilemma. If you need something softer than what they make... what else can you do but soft step them three times. Very interesting!!!

[phibulls]

Great chart. Wish I would have known before I just bought my last set, but nonetheless, I appreciate it. Easy reference. Quick question: I have Project X 5.5 Flighted shafts in my irons. Since they're flighted, they're heavier than the Non-flighted. So, will the 5.5 flighted shafts play closer to the 5.5 hard-stepped on the chart? Thanks.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='phibulls' timestamp='1335997202' post='4835044']
Great chart. Wish I would have known before I just bought my last set, but nonetheless, I appreciate it. Easy reference. Quick question: I have Project X 5.5 Flighted shafts in my irons. Since they're flighted, they're heavier than the Non-flighted. So, will the 5.5 flighted shafts play closer to the 5.5 hard-stepped on the chart? Thanks.
[/quote]

Flighted plays softer than regular, and they plays equal to soft stepped once

[lbhitter]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1330677058' post='4417517'] [quote name='MattTitleist' timestamp='1330659681' post='4416399'] Howard, any idea on how the new PXi relates to the normal PX for freq? [/quote] True feel of flex is impossible to predict from butt CPM only, and i only got 1 set of PXi so i only had 1 single #6 iron/39.00 shaft to measure, but there is no doubt that this shaft is softer butt side compared to the standard. Marked for cut down to standard #6 iron at 37.50 with butt cap, measured with a 2.5 clamp and 255 gram head weight: PX 6.5 - 340 PX 6.5 F - 336 PXi 6.5 - 314 As you ca see BUTT is much softer, but the label say 6.5 but PX is NOT FCM matched, and since i have not got anyone to test this shaft side by side with the others yet, i cant tell much about spin, launch or if it really feels softer than 5.5 (see below) For reference PX 6.5 = 340 PX 6.5F = 336 PX 6.0 = 338 PX 6.0F = 335 PX 5.5 `= 330 PX 5.5F = 326 Numbers are not ready to convert to FCM values. They are only for direct compare [/quote] I find these Pxi 6.5 cpm numbers interesting. I just installed a Pxi 5.5 shaft in a Titleist 712 cb 6i at 37.75" and D2. It freq'ed out at 314 cpms. For reference I use a DigiFlex with a 5" clamp. In my experience the diff between a 5" and 2.5" clamp is ~19cpms. That means as a direct comparison to your numbers, PXi 5.5 freqs out at 295 cpms. On the rifle scale that equates to a 5.0 flex. Easy to see why PXi feels softer. It is softer in the butt as you indicated, although it is not FCM matched. LB

[GoPokes44]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1336014248' post='4837054']
[quote name='phibulls' timestamp='1335997202' post='4835044']
Great chart. Wish I would have known before I just bought my last set, but nonetheless, I appreciate it. Easy reference. Quick question: I have Project X 5.5 Flighted shafts in my irons. Since they're flighted, they're heavier than the Non-flighted. So, will the 5.5 flighted shafts play closer to the 5.5 hard-stepped on the chart? Thanks.
[/quote]

Flighted plays softer than regular, and they plays equal to soft stepped once
[/quote]

Mr. Jones,

Maybe I've missed it, but a few, including myself have wondered about FCM in regards to the PING AWT and CFS shafts. I know they have some "weighted" or "flighted" technology, and I've also heard that CFS are very soft. Can you speak to the Freq on these shafts?

[da_boys]

I'd be interested about the FCM in the Ping AWT as well.