Disingenous posts re: handicaps & rules

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Forged4ever1' timestamp='1390942858' post='8552797']
[quote name='kevcarter' timestamp='1390941748' post='8552647']
[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1390941502' post='8552623']
[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1390940823' post='8552559']
Why did you start a new thread about it?
[/quote]

I didn't .

I started a new thread, that suggests the "holier than thou" Rules/Handicap Nazis on WRX are full of baloney & don't play that way in real life.

But their golfing buddies aren't here to contradict them, so they can play their ROG Super Nazi routine to the hilt.

This was NOT posted on the Rules Forum for a reason. The Rules Forum is for legitimate ROG questions that deserve accurate answers.
[/quote]

Rules Nazi's? What an a**.
[/quote]And people wonder why the game's headed in the direction that it has?

Seriously, ya got 9500+ posts, you were one of the very first members "back in the day," I get it.

You're one of the big swingin d!cks

Is this where we are?

You dissagree, so you go gutter and get personal?

Seriously Dude, and you can come back at me and start rippin, lol, though guys like you should be the examples that the younger and newer members look to when opinions differ.

Regardless of your opinion, & I happen to disagree with the OP's viewpoint, though he and the other posters deserve better.

There's a better way to say someone's off base than getting personal right out of the gate.



Fairways & Greens My Friends
[/quote]

All I can do is laugh. Unbelievable.

[KevCarter]

My apologies to anyone I offended with a**, except the OP. :-)

[nbg352]

[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1390944104' post='8552931']
[quote name='Forged4ever1' timestamp='1390942858' post='8552797']
[quote name='kevcarter' timestamp='1390941748' post='8552647']
[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1390941502' post='8552623']
[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1390940823' post='8552559']
Why did you start a new thread about it?
[/quote]

I didn't .

I started a new thread, that suggests the "holier than thou" Rules/Handicap Nazis on WRX are full of baloney & don't play that way in real life.

But their golfing buddies aren't here to contradict them, so they can play their ROG Super Nazi routine to the hilt.

This was NOT posted on the Rules Forum for a reason. The Rules Forum is for legitimate ROG questions that deserve accurate answers.
[/quote]

Rules Nazi's? What an a**.
[/quote]And people wonder why the game's headed in the direction that it has?

Seriously, ya got 9500+ posts, you were one of the very first members "back in the day," I get it.

You're one of the big swingin d!cks

Is this where we are?

You dissagree, so you go gutter and get personal?

Seriously Dude, and you can come back at me and start rippin, lol, though guys like you should be the examples that the younger and newer members look to when opinions differ.

Regardless of your opinion, the OP and the other posters deserve better.



Fairways & Greens My Friends
[/quote]

Let me get this straight. Kevcarter gets called a Nazi, and you accuse [u]him[/u] of "going to the gutter and getting personal"? Do you even know what a Nazi is?

And you think [u]he[/u] should set a better example? Shame on you.
[/quote]
Both comments were off base.
Brian used a poorly chosen word that has been used before in the rules forum. While the term should have raised ire in that thread, it didn't. That it did so today, is a little odd. That it came from kevin, even odder.

[Gbyeball]

It is really really cold and there is a lot of snow on most of the continent. I don't know about the rest of you guys but I would love to hit something right now.

Cabin fever has everyone itching for a fight and threads like these are sure to ignite one. I follow the rules when needed ( league play ) and play something other than golf at other times, I do not carry a handicap. Most people can be a little loose about one or two aspects of the rules and others are very strict in their adherence. Whatever allows you to sleep at night.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1390945077' post='8553077']
[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1390944104' post='8552931']
[quote name='Forged4ever1' timestamp='1390942858' post='8552797']
[quote name='kevcarter' timestamp='1390941748' post='8552647']
[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1390941502' post='8552623']
[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1390940823' post='8552559']
Why did you start a new thread about it?
[/quote]

I didn't .

I started a new thread, that suggests the "holier than thou" Rules/Handicap Nazis on WRX are full of baloney & don't play that way in real life.

But their golfing buddies aren't here to contradict them, so they can play their ROG Super Nazi routine to the hilt.

This was NOT posted on the Rules Forum for a reason. The Rules Forum is for legitimate ROG questions that deserve accurate answers.
[/quote]

Rules Nazi's? What an a**.
[/quote]And people wonder why the game's headed in the direction that it has?

Seriously, ya got 9500+ posts, you were one of the very first members "back in the day," I get it.

You're one of the big swingin d!cks

Is this where we are?

You dissagree, so you go gutter and get personal?

Seriously Dude, and you can come back at me and start rippin, lol, though guys like you should be the examples that the younger and newer members look to when opinions differ.

Regardless of your opinion, the OP and the other posters deserve better.



Fairways & Greens My Friends
[/quote]

Let me get this straight. Kevcarter gets called a Nazi, and you accuse [u]him[/u] of "going to the gutter and getting personal"? Do you even know what a Nazi is?

And you think [u]he[/u] should set a better example? Shame on you.
[/quote]
Both comments were off base.
Brian used a poorly chosen word that has been used before in the rules forum. While the term should have raised ire in that thread, it didn't. That it did so today, is a little odd. That it came from kevin, even odder.
[/quote]

I'm curious how you would expect someone who spends his time trying to help people with rules questions react to the attitude and put downs he has displayed in this thread? I actually think my response, while unlike me, was pretty tame. You should see what I typed and deleted before hitting send...

[GwrxMod]

Thread moved to The Cooler.

[eagles1]

The Cooler?

Cool.

[Forged4ever]

FWIW, there's no one that's gonna throw a post down here that's stomach wasn't turned more by his analogy using "Nazi."

My Grandfather Died in an extermination camp and my Grandmother carried a tatto with her to her grave courtesy of a Nazi.

And this never would have come up had I not been asked by Sawgrass "Do you even know what a Nazi is?"

Yea Bro, I do-

And I don't wear my knowledge on my sleeve, had SG not asked that question.

I detest PC-

Though believe me, when I see people make trivial analogies using that word as the OP did, and then about a frickin game, it turns my stomach, but hey, if we called people out every time that they said something that turned our stomachs, it'd be a damn miserable life.

You ignore it and move on.

However when someone asks me directly about it, yea, I'm go a answer you.

Nuff said.

Let's move on.

No harm, no foul-

And I still say play the game how the hell you want, lol.

And let others do the same


Fairways & Greens My Friends,
Richard

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Forged4ever1' timestamp='1390946982' post='8553337']
FWIW, there's no one that's gonna throw a post down here that's stomach wasn't turned by his analogy using "Nazi."

My Grandfather Died in an extermination camp and my Grandmother carried a tatto with her to her grave courtesy of a Nazi.

And this never would have come up had I not been asked by Sawgrass "Do you even know what a Nazi is?"

Yea Bro, I do-

And I don't wear my knowledge on my sleeve, had SG not asked that question.

I detest PC-

Though believe me, when I see people make trivial analogies using that word as the OP did, and then about a frickin game, it turns my stomach, but hey, if we called people out everytime thy said something that turned our stomachs, it'd be a damn miserable life.

You ignore it and move on.

However when someone asks me directly about it, yea, I'm go a answer you.

Nuff said.

Let's move on.

No harm, no foul-

And I still say play the game how the hell you want, lol.

And let others do the same


Fairways & Greens My Friends,
Richard
[/quote]

I resent the slap on the wrist you gave me. FWIW

[nbg352]

[quote name='kevcarter' timestamp='1390946540' post='8553291']
[size=5][sub]I'm curious how you would expect someone who spends his time trying to help people with rules questions react to the attitude and put downs he has displayed in this thread? I actually think my response, while unlike me, was pretty tame. You should see what I typed and deleted before hitting send...
[/quote][/sub][/size]
[size=5][sub]Just think if it had been me who was the rules guy instead of you.......[/sub][/size]
[size=4]Someone, sooner or later, was going to kick that evil word in the groin. While I didn't expect it to be you, I was kinda pleased that it was.....[/size]

[Sawgrass]

Forged4ever1,

I'm sincerely sorry to hear that you in fact know so much about Nazis.

It is my intense distaste for the word that caused me to jump to KevCarter's defense for having been addressed in that way, and I hope you can find your way cleat to agree with me in that respect.

I also believe I know Kevcarter quite well, and have benefited from the his generosity, knowledge and his spirit on these forums for a long time, and feel he is owed a debt of gratitude for his longstanding contributions.

[RRFireblade]

Holy cow....what the heck happened in here?

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1390931238' post='8551333']

As for the disingenuous part? Not for one minute do I believe that everyone posting about their 100% adherence to the ROG & Handicap Guidelines, are really doing that in real life.

99.9% of us have a rolled a ball out of a footprint in a bunker so we did't risk breaking a wrist when swinging.

99.8% of us have found our drive out of bounds and said: "ah crap, I'll drop one here and take a double".

96% have taken a Mulligan at one point or more in our golfing career.

100% of us having taken a Putt we were actually sweating out.
....
[/quote]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1390941502' post='8552623']

I started a new thread, that suggests the "holier than thou" Rules/Handicap Nazis on WRX are full of baloney & don't play that way in real life.

[/quote]


Source for your statistics ?

[Timanator]

Turtleback, that is my point, I've seen so many people that we get paired up that will play it as is. Weekend warriors only knows the rules their buddies, relatives have ever explained to them, regardless if they are right or wrong.

[Philipp]

[quote]

This is how we do it in the UK. Only rounds played in club sanctioned competitions and under the rules of golf are used for handicap calculations and adjustments.
[/quote]

Same here in Germany, but it's stupid.
I play around 40-50 casual rounds with my buddies and only 8-10 tournament rounds (hate playing weekend tourneys 5hr + rounds).
So my offical hcp is much higher than what I play.

Stupid...

[KevCarter]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1390941502' post='8552623']
[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1390940823' post='8552559']
Why did you start a new thread about it?
[/quote]

I didn't .

I started a new thread, that suggests the "holier than thou" Rules/Handicap Nazis on WRX are full of baloney & don't play that way in real life.

But their golfing buddies aren't here to contradict them, so they can play their ROG Super Nazi routine to the hilt.

This was NOT posted on the Rules Forum for a reason. [b]The Rules Forum is for legitimate ROG questions that deserve accurate answers.[/b]
[/quote]

I see you've added the last sentence, basically making me wonder why you started this thread in the first place. In the thread, we holier than thou ROG Super Nazi's were simply answering the OP's question.

What type of tone should we use when answering peoples questions to avoid the "Rules Nazi" designation?

[strokingforscratch]

[i]99.9% of us have a rolled a ball out of a footprint in a bunker so we did't risk breaking a wrist when swinging.[/i]
If there's no chance of me making contact, I take an unplayable and drop in the bunker. I took an unplayable in a water rut the other day---I hated doing it---seemed like it should be on the course management to make certain erosion doesn't make the bunkers impossible to manage---but I took the unplayable nonetheless.

[i]99.8% of us have found our drive out of bounds and said: "ah crap, I'll drop one here and take a double".[/i]
We play provisionals, provided we're keeping pace. If we slow up pace, we will drop from the nearest point of OB and be "hitting four". Granted, this is not adherence, but it seems to fit the spirit without making anyone else pay the price for our bad hit.

[i]96% have taken a Mulligan at one point or more in our golfing career.[/i]
I've taken mulligans when the game allows for it. It's not uncommon for our "money groups" to allow two off the first. Or, in some case, a mulligan per side. Otherwise, it's a provisional.

[i]100% of us having taken a Putt we were actually sweating out[/i]
To your point, I certainly miss two many three footers to take gimmees. But, if you're opponent gives it up, Harvey Pennick said it was "bad form" not to take the gimmee--for the very purpose you state---you might miss.

With that said, I have seen groups that play a "reasonable" approach to the game--although I don't know if I agree with it. If the consensus of the group is that a ball would/should have been located by a forecaddy, then they take a free drop. There's another group I play with that plays a "leaf rule"----if the ball is obviously lost in the leaves---by consensus, they take a free drop. I guess the idea is that if you measured your handicap against the "pros", then you should also have the cameras, forecaddies, etc. to help you find your ball.
My feeling, as well as my normal partners---if you hit the ball badly enough to send it into an area dense enough where you must hunt---then you take your medicine and move on.

[Ruddy]

I play a lot of golf alone, and I try to adhere strictly to the rules. Why? Because if I can't be honest with myself, who can I be honest with? l also want a non-biased measurement of each round and how my game is improved .

Ultimately , golf is a game of self integrity. Some people have it; some don't never will, and don't understand .

[Conrad1953]

Most all important golf is scratch anyway. If you try to enter
a qualifier with a bogus HC you'll get exposed, anyway.

[pymmdcp]

My friends and are about to enter "golf season" in AZ (golf is cheap here in the summer for obvious reasons). In June we will play the "AZ Masters" on Tuesdays. Four rounds of golf winner gets a hideous jacket. We play by our own adjusted rules essentially to speed up the game. We tee off at around 4pm and want to finish. OB is essentially a lateral hazard or you can choose to hit 2 from the tee. (Stroke and distance is the worst rule in golf. Johnny Miller and I only agree on this point) Within the grip is a gimme so long as it's for bogey or worse. No mulligans.

I think this is pretty reasonable for eight guys who want to compete but finish and have fun with a round of golf while it's 120 degrees out.

[Whatsinthebag]

I agree that most serious golfers try to play by the rules but when it comes to something like an OB shot, you can't possibly go back to the tee. If everyone played that way, you could add another hour to your round. It's the same as when you hit your ball and it rolls into the rough and everyone sees it but when you get up there it's nowhere to be found. So you look for 5 min while the people on the tee get upset then you are expected to go back and hit again. In a casual round it doesn't make sense.

[larrybud]

[quote name='sthomson' timestamp='1390932074' post='8551429']
[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1390931238' post='8551333']I don't know about you, but playing every round of golf under tournament conditions would sure take some the fun out of golf.[/quote]

It seems to me like the problem stems from the idea that we should post scores for every non-practice round played. Turning this around, why not [i]only[/i] consider rounds posted as part of a competition, with an official competition committee, for handicap purposes? I think some non-American handicapping organizations do it this way, and it seems very sensible.
[/quote]

Define a "competition"? 99.9% of the rounds in the US aren't played that way. I'd say I'm an avid tournament golfer, and I play maybe 6 or 7 tournament rounds a year.

[Bushwood Country Club]

[quote name='Timanator' timestamp='1390932535' post='8551485']
I agree with alot of that, it's laughable the amount of people wanting to Speed up play, yet keep USGA style rules.

Going back to the T box on the weekend is just stupid, USGA needs to call it a Distance plus stroke like a lateral hazard in non-tournament plays.

Playing out of wet bunkers in non-tournament play is stupid.

Hitting a plugged ball in the fairway is stupid.

Accept the handicap system is not an accurate measure of a player, and move on.
[/quote]not to be too picky, but you don't have to hit a plugged ball in the fairway ( or anywhere else not in a hazard)... Free relief is provided for an embedded ball.

[e.king.gill]

In a non-tournament situation it is not practical 99.9% of the time to go back to the tee. Pace of play is 1,000x more important than having to go back to the tee when you did not know you were out of bounds. I do try to hit a provisional whenever in doubt. Literally 100s of times I have discovered an opponents ball (in a non-tournament situation) out of bounds or we simply cant find it at all - the standard solution is to play it like a hazard and get on with it. The course I play most often prides itself on 4 hours to max 4 hours 15 minutes. If you went back to the tee you would get absolutely crucified. The game and the rules are important. Integrity is critical and absolutely essential. That said if you happen to scrape out a double instead of a triple because you played an unknown OB ball as a hazard what have you really changed - especially in the context of Equitable Stroke Control.

 

Lost Ball - ($4) if its a Pro V1

Penalty Shot to drop the ball

You likely lose the hole and could lose the match that can be anywhere from ($1) to ($300) in my golf wagering experience.

Full disclosure - you tell your opponents and everyone knows you are playing it like a hazard.

In Scotland "out of bounds" is largely and obscure concept that would require your ball to take a taxi to get out of bounds (obvious exceptions to this but for the most part its almost irrelevant). Here we have back yards and houses 5-10 feet from the cart path so the O.B. is very much in play. I think the rule should be revisited.

 

But I digress - How much more punishment do you really need. Is everything above NOT enough punishment already?