X100, S300, S400 and Spinner in wedges

[Tomed]

As with most topics I've posted in this forum, there are always the haters. These people come out of the wood work and ruin just about every "discussion" so please . . . . if you are a hater - go away. And yeah, I know there are other shaft manufacturers out there - Nippon, KBS, Project X, etc, and I know there are graphite shafts for irons/wedges. This isn't a head to head between all different manufacturers or technologies. And, it's not a normal objective test for the "industry" where it is conducted with a multitude of golfers with handicap ranges from scratch to certified chopper. This is what it is... "X100, S300, S400 and Spinner in wedges"

 

Alright... this post is all about these shafts, not actual heads.

This past summer/fall my low index was a +2.7, (a handicap preceded by a + [plus] is lower than scratch) and my low round was 64. I am definitely not that now - winter is out with a vengeance here in the ATL and has limited my outdoor time. In fact we're snowed in today and yesterday so I've been down in my "club room" messing around, and in my "hitting area" to practice pitching, specifically. For those certified choppers out there who think bounce is a dryer sheet, pitching is all about getting the bounce [of your wedge] on the turf, and doing everything in your power to take the leading edge out of play... This is how to get the ball up in the air quickly and play the ball softly around the hole. Quite liberating to know the bounce of your wedges...

 

I have seven or eight wedge sets: Titleist, Taylormade, Clay Long, Callaway, Cleveland, Scratch, Mizuno. I like a fair amount of bounce on my wedges - at least 10 degrees or more. The shafts are mostly S300s, S400s and several with the "DG Spinner." However, I have three "Scratch" wedges with X100s. I haven't played these wedge shafts for a couple of years, despite having great success with 'em and despite fact that nearly all touring professionals use X flex shafts in their wedges. The reason I went away from X in my wedges is that a few years ago I was playing Mizuno wedges when they released a series with the DG "Spinner" shaft. At the time the #1 player in the world, Luke Donald, adopted these shafts in his wedges. DG claimed these shafts imparted between 400 and 1,000 more rpms of spin. So, I deduced that I needed softer flex in my wedges for more spin around the hole.

 

Yesterday, I grabbed one of the Scratch wedges with an X100 to practice my pitching. It was fantastic. Great feel, great contact and excellent results. Clipping everything real nice one after the other for an entire bucket of 100 balls. Then I grabbed my current "gamer" which has S400s. It wasn't the same. Contact was noticeably different - the consistency from shot to shot was not there. I was perplexed. I didn't change any technique and just a few seconds before I couldn't mishit a shot. Perplexed, I went and swapped heads to the opposite shafts (involves heat gun, epoxy, curing time, etc.). No matter what head combination I used, the X100 shaft out performed the "S" series and the "Spinner" series shafts. And mind you, I'm not swinging all out - these are soft pitch shots with a sand wedge!

 

Wanting to find out "why", I have done all the "research" I can and have not found specific objective data that would vet out the reasons behind my subjective conclusion which favored the X100. So, I'm left with an opinion (my opinion) and when I described my experience, here's what I wrote in my equipment/playing journal:

 

"There was a noticeable difference. The X100 was more consistent from shot to shot. The contact was noticeably better. It felt like the S300 flexed more in the tip and the X100 flexed less - duh - stiff vs x-stiff. Especially if the club hit the ground it affected the total quality of the hit in the S300 and consistency suffered, whereas the X100 did not flex much and maintained the club’s “line” no matter if the club entered impact perfectly or slightly imperfect. When the shot was less than desired it seemed like the result of the tip flexing due to the impact condition. Overall, the X100 out performed the other shafts and the feel of that crisp shot one after the other is going to deliver on-course confidence."

 

The only real "reason" I can deduce from this experience is that the tip section in the X100 is measurably stronger/stiffer which delivers the club in a more predictable/stable manner over the course of different impact scenarios. More stability in the tip provides more stability in the hit which provides consistency shot after shot. Is there a flex test in which True Temper uses to measure tip stiffness? There has to be, but I haven't found this information.

 

In fact, there is NOTHING on the current true temper website that is technical in nature. If I ran that company I would make darn sure I could provide specific measurable data on each of my products so consumers and dealers could fully understand the true merits of the product in how it relates to a plethora of golf shots (chips, pitches, half shots, full shots). It seems the more susceptible a shaft is to deformation, the more unpredictable that shaft will perform over a variety of circumstances. Shaft deformation is measured in quality and materials, but it is also measured in stiffness right? There doesn't seem to be any real objective real world information out there about this topic on true temper's website.

 

Last thing... For his entire life, even until his late seventies, Ben Hogan played X100 shafts that were tip trimmed two inches. The greatest golfers in history who knew and played with Hogan, all said he was the greatest ball striker by far. Hogan continued to play with golf clubs as stiff as your local telephone pole. If you were to believe the hyperbole of the golf equipment industry, he should have been playing a "senior" shaft right? Well, go figure...

 

I haven't done any research, but my guess is that 99.9% of the Champions Tour professionals use X flex shafts... In fact, I'll look at one now - who's the guy in the hall of fame in his 70's who still plays out there? Uh, Hale Irwin.. pause> Google > Hale Irwin what's in the bag - rats... couldn't find anything about the flex. Ok, how about Tom Watson - he's nearly 70... fooey... nothing on shaft flex. Ok, so back to the Hogan story...

 

"As he got rid of the hook and became the best ball striker on the planet, Gene said he remained with the 2" tip X shafts because he had developed the sense of feel to where he absolutely hated any shaft that he could feel bend during the swing, and especially when he released the club to impact. Even in 1987, when I think Mr Hogan was in his mid 70s and did not play very much anymore, the few times he headed out to Shady Oaks to hit balls, he still preferred hitting these X tipped 2" shafts in his clubs." Read that here about a quarter of the way down the page.... According to the article, this fellow spent a load of time with Hogan's personal club builder, Glen Sheeley.

 

Alright haters! Please don't hit the "reply" button...

[vtnerf]

Interesting given your avatar...
#nohater

[Tomed]

[quote name='vtnerf' timestamp='1392310026' post='8659803']
Interesting given your avatar...
#nohater
[/quote]
your avatar might suggest you can write about no hole other than #18 at teh old course. ;-)

[Fade to Black]

Would the tip stiffness really come into play with soft pitch shots where you're not really flexing the shaft?

[alittleoverpar]

I find this interesting as I have been wanting to replace my S400 wedge shafts with X100 shafts.

[Tomed]

[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1392310307' post='8659829']
Would the tip stiffness really come into play with soft pitch shots where you're not really flexing the shaft?
[/quote]
Ok, since we were previously on the topic of one's avatar.. uh hem... i really like yours... now that's out of the way... I think yours is a great question. I believe the shaft manufacturer could certainly provide details on that FOR ALL GOLFERS. But my subjective little study suggests that the tip does flex (bend/deform) during the impact condition. Specifically, when you hit the ground first (as in most pitches you're not hitting ball first) whatever force there is exerted upon the club's head by the ground will be absorbed by the shaft and it will affect the quality of the strike.

[tocino]

Just curious, but are the x100's in your scratch wedges 8-iron shafts or wedge shafts?

-J

[Tomed]

wedge
[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1392312913' post='8660173']
Just curious, but are the x100's in your scratch wedges 8-iron shafts or wedge shafts?

-J
[/quote]

wedge

[Steff_P]

I have X100 shafts in my 52 and 56 and i really like the shafts. Played the DG tour issue shafts earlier and like the x100 more. I get a more penetrating ball flight with the X100.

What was your question again?

[Cwebb]

I'm in this camp, where the generalization is to at least explore and test as stiff and heavy of a shaft that you can handle. With every club, including driver and lob wedge.

I found it can and does make a difference in dispersion and consistency, even on chips and pitches.

Can't stand "spinner" wedge shafts, even if they provide a desired increase in spin, because they're not nearly as consistent

[Cwebb]

[quote name='Tomed' timestamp='1392310696' post='8659893']
[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1392310307' post='8659829']
Would the tip stiffness really come into play with soft pitch shots where you're not really flexing the shaft?
[/quote]
Ok, since we were previously on the topic of one's avatar.. uh hem... i really like yours... now that's out of the way... I think yours is a great question. I believe the shaft manufacturer could certainly provide details on that FOR ALL GOLFERS. But my subjective little study suggests that the tip does flex (bend/deform) during the impact condition. Specifically, when you hit the ground first (as in most pitches you're not hitting ball first) whatever force there is exerted upon the club's head by the ground will be absorbed by the shaft and it will affect the quality of the strike.
[/quote]

I agree that this does happen. So for example, a player who likes to "use the bounce" on wedge shots, where the sole can and will begin touching the turf before the ball....this is where "enough" stiffness can tighten dispersion and consistency.

Also when the ball is still against the face and the sole is interacting with the turf

[rbhan12]

In reality it's probably just the swing weight or bend profile or MOI or any variable between the two shafts when installed that makes a difference. Your claim that the club hitting the ground and shaft absorbing impact vibrations etc isn't relevant because you hit the ball before the ground. You said with most pitches you're not hitting the ball first, I personally disagree as I would never want the bounce of the club to literally bounce up off the ground and blade a wedge shot. Any dispersion or perceived dispersion (you're in your basement) is a matter of feel. And there's nothing wrong with that! If it feels better and you're hitting it flush every time slap X100s in your wedges! Just beware that most pros and golfers soften the flex of their wedges not necessarily for more spin, but more feel. And if you're getting feel with a stiffer shaft then that's great.

[Tomed]

[quote name='rbhan12' timestamp='1392315306' post='8660503']
In reality it's probably just the swing weight or bend profile or MOI or any variable between the two shafts when installed that makes a difference. Your claim that the club hitting the ground and shaft absorbing impact vibrations etc isn't relevant because you hit the ball before the ground. You said with most pitches you're not hitting the ball first, I personally disagree as I would never want the bounce of the club to literally bounce up off the ground and blade a wedge shot. Any dispersion or perceived dispersion (you're in your basement) is a matter of feel. And there's nothing wrong with that! If it feels better and you're hitting it flush every time slap X100s in your wedges! Just beware that most pros and golfers soften the flex of their wedges not necessarily for more spin, but more feel. And if you're getting feel with a stiffer shaft then that's great.
[/quote]
ok. I can't help myself... Your moniker "professional hacker" says it all. #hatershate

[rbhan12]

LOL somebody disagreeing (and I didn't disagree with you particularly other than bounce) with you becomes a hater

[Tomed]

[quote name='rbhan12' timestamp='1392315306' post='8660503']
In reality it's probably just the swing weight or bend profile or MOI or any variable between the two shafts when installed that makes a difference. Your claim that the club hitting the ground and shaft absorbing impact vibrations etc isn't relevant because you hit the ball before the ground. You said with most pitches you're not hitting the ball first, I personally disagree as I would never want the bounce of the club to literally bounce up off the ground and blade a wedge shot. Any dispersion or perceived dispersion (you're in your basement) is a matter of feel. And there's nothing wrong with that! If it feels better and you're hitting it flush every time slap X100s in your wedges! Just beware that most pros and golfers soften the flex of their wedges not necessarily for more spin, but more feel. And if you're getting feel with a stiffer shaft then that's great.
[/quote]
the difference between a 4 or 5 and a + is the 4 or 5 hasn't figured out how to pitch the ball correctly and is still blading his wedge shot(s) and therefore scared to try the soft pitch. when that 4 or 5 is short sided he's going to put the ball back in his stance, get his weight left and [chip with leading edge-ball first] hit down on it, bump it short then hope/pray the ball gets thru the rough and trickles to the hole. most times he either A) stubs the club into the ground and the ball goes nowhere B) hits too hard and the ball goes miles past target. whereas a + is pitching the ball high and soft with anywhere from a 3 to 7 footer for par and when he's really on, those pitch shots often are less than a foot. and now me thinks with this "discovery" my good shots will be better and my bad shots will be good. keep on hating #hatershate

[bladehunter]

I wonder about this too..... I recently went form original 588 Cleveland wedges with a s300 shafts to a brand new set of conforming original design 588 ( so same head different grooves) and they came with s400 shafts... I have a very confident short game and hit wedge shots every single day ( even today off mat into the snow) so I feel like I have a good grasp on the subject..I immediately noticed a loss of distance and some feel and definitely accuracy with the new wedges.... I love the club heads...all with custom grinds specked to me..bounce is right etc..But for some reason I have lost some "feel" if that makes sense. I know for a fact that I have picked up a lot of spin...ive always had plenty..but now its even worse..i at forst blamed this on the new grooves as my old ones were pretty worn... But lately im wondering if the s400 isn't more "flexible" at the tip and im loosing feel from that? does that make sense..is it possible??? I want to change shafts but ive too been thinking and researching the best route to go..i could cheat and just put the old shafts into the new heads..but that seems like it might be a lot of work for little gain...as in is this the whole problem or is there an even better solution?

[Tomed]

[quote name='rbhan12' timestamp='1392316728' post='8660679']
LOL somebody disagreeing (and I didn't disagree with you particularly other than bounce) with you becomes a hater
[/quote]
nah... you relegated my experience(s) by saying "[i]swing weight or bend profile or MOI or any variable between the two shafts when installed that makes a difference[/i]." Er, uh.. ok... Then you go further and say that my "claim isn't relevant"?...."[i]Your claim that the club hitting the ground and shaft absorbing impact vibrations etc isn't relevant[/i]"

You're not a hater? Ok... You had me fooled.

[blink3665]

[quote name='Tomed' timestamp='1392316248' post='8660629']
[quote name='rbhan12' timestamp='1392315306' post='8660503']
In reality it's probably just the swing weight or bend profile or MOI or any variable between the two shafts when installed that makes a difference. Your claim that the club hitting the ground and shaft absorbing impact vibrations etc isn't relevant because you hit the ball before the ground. You said with most pitches you're not hitting the ball first, I personally disagree as I would never want the bounce of the club to literally bounce up off the ground and blade a wedge shot. Any dispersion or perceived dispersion (you're in your basement) is a matter of feel. And there's nothing wrong with that! If it feels better and you're hitting it flush every time slap X100s in your wedges! Just beware that most pros and golfers soften the flex of their wedges not necessarily for more spin, but more feel. And if you're getting feel with a stiffer shaft then that's great.
[/quote]
ok. I can't help myself... Your moniker "professional hacker" says it all. #hatershate
[/quote]

I don't think he is doing any hating. He basically said that wedges are 'feel' clubs. If you like the feel of x100 than that is terrific. You have found the ideal combo for you. Some people prefer the same shafts as their irons, and some prefer softer.

That being said, I have been intrigued by the Tiger Stepping thread and I might give that a try, or might step up to a stiffer shaft to experiment with!

[bladehunter]

whats this tiger stepping you speak of??? does it involve tiger blood by any chance?????????

[vtnerf]

[quote name='Tomed' timestamp='1392317040' post='8660731']
[quote name='rbhan12' timestamp='1392315306' post='8660503']
In reality it's probably just the swing weight or bend profile or MOI or any variable between the two shafts when installed that makes a difference. Your claim that the club hitting the ground and shaft absorbing impact vibrations etc isn't relevant because you hit the ball before the ground. You said with most pitches you're not hitting the ball first, I personally disagree as I would never want the bounce of the club to literally bounce up off the ground and blade a wedge shot. Any dispersion or perceived dispersion (you're in your basement) is a matter of feel. And there's nothing wrong with that! If it feels better and you're hitting it flush every time slap X100s in your wedges! Just beware that most pros and golfers soften the flex of their wedges not necessarily for more spin, but more feel. And if you're getting feel with a stiffer shaft then that's great.
[/quote]
the difference between a 4 or 5 and a + is [b]the 4 or 5 hasn't figured out how to pitch the ball correctly[/b] and is still blading his wedge shot(s) and therefore scared to try the soft pitch. when that 4 or 5 is short sided he's going to put the ball back in his stance, get his weight left and [chip with leading edge-ball first] hit down on it, bump it short then hope/pray the ball gets thru the rough and trickles to the hole. most times he either A) stubs the club into the ground and the ball goes nowhere B) hits too hard and the ball goes miles past target. whereas a + is pitching the ball high and soft with anywhere from a 3 to 7 footer for par and when he's really on, those pitch shots often are less than a foot. and now me thinks with this "discovery" my good shots will be better and my bad shots will be good. keep on hating #hatershate
[/quote]

With this response, you too are hating. Just sayin.
Your brushstroke charachterisation of why you, with your +, are superior to anyone who doesn't carry that little symbol shows hate.
And you generic assumption that all 4's or 5's haven't figured out how to pitch the ball correctly it is an uninformed comment.
You started a thread about how great a shaft is FOR YOU! One size does not fit all, and just because someone has a different opinion (or way to chip/pitch the ball) does not make them a hater.

[rbhan12]

[quote name='vtnerf' timestamp='1392317429' post='8660789']
[quote name='Tomed' timestamp='1392317040' post='8660731']
[quote name='rbhan12' timestamp='1392315306' post='8660503']
In reality it's probably just the swing weight or bend profile or MOI or any variable between the two shafts when installed that makes a difference. Your claim that the club hitting the ground and shaft absorbing impact vibrations etc isn't relevant because you hit the ball before the ground. You said with most pitches you're not hitting the ball first, I personally disagree as I would never want the bounce of the club to literally bounce up off the ground and blade a wedge shot. Any dispersion or perceived dispersion (you're in your basement) is a matter of feel. And there's nothing wrong with that! If it feels better and you're hitting it flush every time slap X100s in your wedges! Just beware that most pros and golfers soften the flex of their wedges not necessarily for more spin, but more feel. And if you're getting feel with a stiffer shaft then that's great.
[/quote]
the difference between a 4 or 5 and a + is [b]the 4 or 5 hasn't figured out how to pitch the ball correctly[/b] and is still blading his wedge shot(s) and therefore scared to try the soft pitch. when that 4 or 5 is short sided he's going to put the ball back in his stance, get his weight left and [chip with leading edge-ball first] hit down on it, bump it short then hope/pray the ball gets thru the rough and trickles to the hole. most times he either A) stubs the club into the ground and the ball goes nowhere B) hits too hard and the ball goes miles past target. whereas a + is pitching the ball high and soft with anywhere from a 3 to 7 footer for par and when he's really on, those pitch shots often are less than a foot. and now me thinks with this "discovery" my good shots will be better and my bad shots will be good. keep on hating #hatershate
[/quote]

With this response, you too are hating. Just sayin.
Your brushstroke charachterisation of why you, with your +, are superior to anyone who doesn't carry that little symbol shows hate.
And you generic assumption that all 4's or 5's haven't figured out how to pitch the ball correctly it is an uninformed comment.
You started a thread about how great a shaft is FOR YOU! One size does not fit all, and just because someone has a different opinion (or way to chip/pitch the ball) does not make them a hater.
[/quote]

A great reply good sir

[Tomed]

[quote name='vtnerf' timestamp='1392317429' post='8660789']
[quote name='Tomed' timestamp='1392317040' post='8660731']
[quote name='rbhan12' timestamp='1392315306' post='8660503']
In reality it's probably just the swing weight or bend profile or MOI or any variable between the two shafts when installed that makes a difference. Your claim that the club hitting the ground and shaft absorbing impact vibrations etc isn't relevant because you hit the ball before the ground. You said with most pitches you're not hitting the ball first, I personally disagree as I would never want the bounce of the club to literally bounce up off the ground and blade a wedge shot. Any dispersion or perceived dispersion (you're in your basement) is a matter of feel. And there's nothing wrong with that! If it feels better and you're hitting it flush every time slap X100s in your wedges! Just beware that most pros and golfers soften the flex of their wedges not necessarily for more spin, but more feel. And if you're getting feel with a stiffer shaft then that's great.
[/quote]
the difference between a 4 or 5 and a + is [b]the 4 or 5 hasn't figured out how to pitch the ball correctly[/b] and is still blading his wedge shot(s) and therefore scared to try the soft pitch. when that 4 or 5 is short sided he's going to put the ball back in his stance, get his weight left and [chip with leading edge-ball first] hit down on it, bump it short then hope/pray the ball gets thru the rough and trickles to the hole. most times he either A) stubs the club into the ground and the ball goes nowhere B) hits too hard and the ball goes miles past target. whereas a + is pitching the ball high and soft with anywhere from a 3 to 7 footer for par and when he's really on, those pitch shots often are less than a foot. and now me thinks with this "discovery" my good shots will be better and my bad shots will be good. keep on hating #hatershate
[/quote]

With this response, you too are hating. Just sayin.
Your brushstroke charachterisation of why you, with your +, are superior to anyone who doesn't carry that little symbol shows hate.
And you generic assumption that all 4's or 5's haven't figured out how to pitch the ball correctly it is an uninformed comment.
You started a thread about how great a shaft is FOR YOU! One size does not fit all, and just because someone has a different opinion (or way to chip/pitch the ball) does not make them a hater.
[/quote]
You're right... I'll just sit back and let it rest. I have no right for saying this guy or that guy is a "hater." Sayonara for now

[Cwebb]

[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1392317083' post='8660739']
I wonder about this too..... I recently went form original 588 Cleveland wedges with a s300 shafts to a brand new set of conforming original design 588 ( so same head different grooves) and they came with s400 shafts... I have a very confident short game and hit wedge shots every single day ( even today off mat into the snow) so I feel like I have a good grasp on the subject..I immediately noticed a loss of distance and some feel and definitely accuracy with the new wedges.... I love the club heads...all with custom grinds specked to me..bounce is right etc..But for some reason I have lost some "feel" if that makes sense. I know for a fact that I have picked up a lot of spin...ive always had plenty..but now its even worse..i at forst blamed this on the new grooves as my old ones were pretty worn... But lately im wondering if the s400 isn't more "flexible" at the tip and im loosing feel from that? does that make sense..is it possible??? I want to change shafts but ive too been thinking and researching the best route to go..i could cheat and just put the old shafts into the new heads..but that seems like it might be a lot of work for little gain...as in is this the whole problem or is there an even better solution?
[/quote]

It wouldn't make any sense, if "all else is equal", because an S400 is not more flexible than an S300

[bladehunter]

I agree..thats why im puzzled..... I bought these from marc at yourtourcollection and as everyone knows all he sells is straight from clevelands tour dept among other tour depts...anyway im wondering if these aren't already "tiger stepped" as in are they 8 iron shafts in my wedges and thus are more flexible feeling ?? as in the old school way of making a "spinner shaft" .... any way I could tell by looking?? either way ive lost accuracy and feel and I too am looking to get it back...I mean I can literally pull out my older wedges and gain it all right back...dispersion on full shots comes back and short chips are on the line I intend...almost instantly

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='Tomed' timestamp='1392308950' post='8659697']
As with most topics I've posted in this forum, there are always the haters. These people come out of the wood work and ruin just about every "discussion" so please . . . . if you are a hater - go away. And yeah, I know there are other shaft manufacturers out there - Nippon, KBS, Project X, etc, and I know there are graphite shafts for irons/wedges. This isn't a head to head between all different manufacturers or technologies. And, it's not a normal objective test for the "industry" where it is conducted with a multitude of golfers with handicap ranges from scratch to certified chopper. This is what it is... "[b][u]X100, S300, S400 and Spinner in wedges[/u][/b]"

Alright... this post is all about these shafts, not actual heads.
This past summer/fall my low index was a +2.7, (a handicap preceded by a + [plus] is lower than scratch) and my low round was 64. I am definitely not that now - winter is out with a vengeance here in the ATL and has limited my outdoor time. In fact we're snowed in today and yesterday so I've been down in my "club room" messing around, and in my "hitting area" to practice pitching, specifically. For those certified choppers out there who think bounce is a dryer sheet, pitching is all about getting the bounce [of your wedge] on the turf, and doing everything in your power to take the leading edge out of play... This is how to get the ball up in the air quickly and play the ball softly around the hole. Quite liberating to know the bounce of your wedges...

I have seven or eight wedge sets: Titleist, Taylormade, Clay Long, Callaway, Cleveland, Scratch, Mizuno. I like a fair amount of bounce on my wedges - at least 10 degrees or more. The shafts are mostly S300s, S400s and several with the "DG Spinner." However, I have three "Scratch" wedges with X100s. I haven't played these wedge shafts for a couple of years, despite having great success with 'em and despite fact that nearly all touring professionals use X flex shafts in their wedges. The reason I went away from X in my wedges is that a few years ago I was playing Mizuno wedges when they released a series with the DG "Spinner" shaft. At the time the #1 player in the world, Luke Donald, adopted these shafts in his wedges. DG claimed these shafts imparted between 400 and 1,000 more rpms of spin. So, I deduced that I needed softer flex in my wedges for more spin around the hole.

Yesterday, I grabbed one of the Scratch wedges with an X100 to practice my pitching. It was fantastic. Great feel, great contact and excellent results. Clipping everything real nice one after the other for an entire bucket of 100 balls. Then I grabbed my current "gamer" which has S400s. It wasn't the same. Contact was noticeably different - the consistency from shot to shot was not there. I was perplexed. I didn't change any technique and just a few seconds before I couldn't mishit a shot. Perplexed, I went and swapped heads to the opposite shafts (involves heat gun, epoxy, curing time, etc.). No matter what head combination I used, the X100 shaft out performed the "S" series and the "Spinner" series shafts. And mind you, I'm not swinging all out - these are soft pitch shots with a sand wedge!

Wanting to find out "why", I have done all the "research" I can and have not found specific objective data that would vet out the reasons behind my subjective conclusion which favored the X100. So, I'm left with an opinion (my opinion) and when I described my experience, here's what I wrote in my equipment/playing journal:

[size=3][i]"There was a noticeable difference. The X100 was more consistent from shot to shot. The contact was noticeably better. It felt like the S300 flexed more in the tip and the X100 flexed less - duh - stiff vs x-stiff. Especially if the club hit the ground it affected the total quality of the hit in the S300 and consistency suffered, whereas the X100 did not flex much and maintained the club’s “line” no matter if the club entered impact perfectly or slightly imperfect. When the shot was less than desired it seemed like the result of the tip flexing due to the impact condition. Overall, the X100 out performed the other shafts and the feel of that crisp shot one after the other is going to deliver on-course confidence."[/i][/size]

The only real "reason" I can deduce from this experience is that the tip section in the X100 is measurably stronger/stiffer which delivers the club in a more predictable/stable manner over the course of different impact scenarios. More stability in the tip provides more stability in the hit which provides consistency shot after shot. Is there a flex test in which True Temper uses to measure tip stiffness? There has to be, but I haven't found this information.

In fact, there is NOTHING on the current true temper website that is technical in nature. If I ran that company I would make darn sure I could provide specific measurable data on each of my products so consumers and dealers could fully understand the true merits of the product in how it relates to a plethora of golf shots (chips, pitches, half shots, full shots). It seems the more susceptible a shaft is to deformation, the more unpredictable that shaft will perform over a variety of circumstances. Shaft deformation is measured in quality and materials, but it is also measured in stiffness right? There doesn't seem to be any real objective real world information out there about this topic on true temper's website.

Last thing... For his entire life, even until his late seventies, Ben Hogan played X100 shafts that were tip trimmed two inches. The greatest golfers in history who knew and played with Hogan, all said he was the greatest ball striker by far. Hogan continued to play with golf clubs as stiff as your local telephone pole. If you were to believe the hyperbole of the golf equipment industry, he should have been playing a "senior" shaft right? Well, go figure...

I haven't done any research, but my guess is that 99.9% of the Champions Tour professionals use X flex shafts... In fact, I'll look at one now - who's the guy in the hall of fame in his 70's who still plays out there? Uh, Hale Irwin.. pause> Google > Hale Irwin what's in the bag - rats... couldn't find anything about the flex. Ok, how about Tom Watson - he's nearly 70... fooey... nothing on shaft flex. Ok, so back to the Hogan story...

"[size=3][i]As he got rid of the hook and became the best ball striker on the planet, Gene said he remained with the 2" tip X shafts because he had developed the sense of feel to where he absolutely hated any shaft that he could feel bend during the swing, and especially when he released the club to impact. Even in 1987, when I think Mr Hogan was in his mid 70s and did not play very much anymore, the few times he headed out to Shady Oaks to hit balls, he still preferred hitting these X tipped 2" shafts in his clubs[/i][/size]." Read that [url="http://www.wishongolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8692&sid=802a0c2f953e368a063db2f0a8f85679"]here about a quarter of the way down the page[/url].... According to the article, this fellow spent a load of time with Hogan's personal club builder, Glen Sheeley.

Alright haters! Please don't hit the "reply" button...
[/quote]

X100 is softer tip side than S300/S400, and you can feel it.
IMO is X100 the best steel shaft ever made in this weight range, and as R flex player i prefer X before S if i had to choose between those 2 only.

If one of your wedges is mostly for partials, use a X100 #8 iron shaft to improve feel even furteh

[blink3665]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1392319057' post='8661073']
[quote name='Tomed' timestamp='1392308950' post='8659697']
[/quote]

X100 is softer tip side than S300/S400, and you can feel it.
IMO is X100 the best steel shaft ever made in this weight range, and as R flex player i prefer X before S if i had to choose between those 2 only.

If one of your wedges is mostly for partials, use [b]a X100 #8 iron shaft to improve feel even furteh[/b]
[/quote]

No Tiger blood needed!

[Cwebb]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1392319057' post='8661073']


X100 is softer tip side than S300/S400, and you can feel it.

[/quote]

It might be when measured at 11" from the tip, which is the last distance we can measure for bend profiling,..but I do not believe that an X100 is softer than an S400 below 11" where the last step is

[Cwebb]

[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1392318455' post='8660973']
I agree..thats why im puzzled..... I bought these from marc at yourtourcollection and as everyone knows all he sells is straight from clevelands tour dept among other tour depts...anyway im wondering if these aren't already "tiger stepped" as in are they 8 iron shafts in my wedges and thus are more flexible feeling ?? as in the old school way of making a "spinner shaft" .... any way I could tell by looking?? either way ive lost accuracy and feel and I too am looking to get it back...I mean I can literally pull out my older wedges and gain it all right back...dispersion on full shots comes back and short chips are on the line I intend...almost instantly
[/quote]

There's an easy way. Measure the distance from the last step on the shaft in the tip section...to the "ground line" or bottom of sole. Compare the different clubs and if one has the last step further up from the "ground line", then it will play softer, more flexible

[Steff_P]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1392319057' post='8661073']
X100 is softer tip side than S300/S400, and you can feel it.
IMO is X100 the best steel shaft ever made in this weight range, and as R flex player i prefer X before S if i had to choose between those 2 only.

If one of your wedges is mostly for partials, use a X100 #8 iron shaft to improve feel even furteh
[/quote]

How should the 8 iron shaft be installed? I have read about tiger stepping but everyone keeps saying different things.

Is tiger stepping a good idea for a 60 degree wedge never used for full shots? If so Should the 8-iron shaft be tipped or just put in as usual and trim the butt end of the shaft? Sorry for hijacking the tread.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='Steff_P' timestamp='1392322984' post='8661505']
[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1392319057' post='8661073']
X100 is softer tip side than S300/S400, and you can feel it.
IMO is X100 the best steel shaft ever made in this weight range, and as R flex player i prefer X before S if i had to choose between those 2 only.

If one of your wedges is mostly for partials, use a X100 #8 iron shaft to improve feel even furteh
[/quote]

How should the 8 iron shaft be installed? I have read about tiger stepping but everyone keeps saying different things.

Is tiger stepping a good idea for a 60 degree wedge never used for full shots? If so Should the 8-iron shaft be tipped or just put in as usual and trim the butt end of the shaft? Sorry for hijacking the tread.
[/quote]

We are talking 3 different things here.
- using a #8 iron shaft from the same set as irons to go slightly softer in wedges
- using a #8 iron shaft from 1 flex stronger - ex, S300 in irons - X100 #8 iron shaft in wedge - The old 8 iron spinner trick
- Tip trimming taper tips to adjust them close to a hard stepping 1x without moving shafts = Tiger stepping

Normally we dont tip trim a taper tip shaft, but most hosels will take a taper who is tipped up to 3/8 without problems
and since Dynamic Gold dont offer shafts shorter and stiffer than #9, we can tip trim a #9 shaft and make it to be close to the PW shaft TT dont sell no more. If the hosel will accept 4/8 of tip trim, it will be equal to 1 shaft stronger or Hard stepped 1x.