Golf is dying: "lost 5 million players in the last decade... another 5 million will quit in the next

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1407946342' post='9924741']
4:45 to play a 6400 yard course yesterday with a half full lot when I pulled in. 12:12 tee time on a Tuesday. No ranger. 5 some in front of us. 4 some in front of them.
It's 84 and sunny today and have no desire to play after that experience yesterday. Golf is killing itself.
[/quote]

After that, I understand your trepidation and why you think it might be killing itself. Afterward, I hope you complained in the pro shop. That's what I do, along with writing emails to GM and Head Pro, and if they request me to take a survey, their ears ring. That's the only way that I can see, change might happen.

[Hawkeye77]

[quote name='JWells' timestamp='1407955092' post='9925763']
Only 2:30 here in VA but I have to meet my parents for dinner out by there place and just can't swing it. If it just didn't quite take as long as it does I could of played. I'll try to get out tomorrow. Reason I posted here is because I truly believe time is the main thing stopping players
[/quote]

Your schedule isn't "golf's" fault. A little over two hours to drive to the course, pay, and tee off and play nine? That's wasn't an unreasonable time allotment 30 years ago.

[Startzel]

[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1407964856' post='9926971']
[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1407962739' post='9926703']
[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1407946342' post='9924741']
4:45 to play a 6400 yard course yesterday with a half full lot when I pulled in. 12:12 tee time on a Tuesday. No ranger. 5 some in front of us. 4 some in front of them.
It's 84 and sunny today and have no desire to play after that experience yesterday. Golf is killing itself.
[/quote]

So you're going to quit playing golf?
[/quote]
No, but I haven't played nearly as much this year. Just too many experiences like this. I used to dream about being able to get out during the week when I wanted to. Now I can, and I find that its not much different than the weekend. Maybe worse, given they have no one out there directing play.
A half empty course shouldn't take 4:45 to play a round of golf. Week to week, you really don't know if the same course even will be slow or quick. Played the same course, same tee time one week ago and played in 3 hrs walking. Slowly. LOL!
[/quote]

So golf really isn't killing itself. You're just being over dramatic?

[LUMA]

The more of who who quit, the better for me. Less people on the course... and I aint quitting. I'll turn suburbia into a 7000 yard 18 hole course if I have to. St.Augustine grass and all.

[Pepperturbo]

Sometimes I think Golfwrx is ladened by either unhappy people or simply negative glass half empty people. Golf, for the most part, is NOT killing itself. Especially if any of you listened to PGA leadership recently talk to the press during the PGA. Their subject was the results of their national plan towards getting new blood into the game. They even provided expansion numbers of youth, and inferences regarding parents, which were impressive.

Also, I do not see the correlation between golf killing itself and any half-empty course taking 4:45hrs to finish. The former is a broad generalization while the later is course specific; not representative of all courses nationally.

Golf is doing what all other industries must do, right themselves. [url="http://buswk.co/1pOwvhk"]http://buswk.co/1pOwvhk[/url] Open too many courses for the market, courses must close. Same is true with retail coffee shops or little cell phone stores in malls.

PS, maybe the answer is control population growth, like, say China.... On second thought, that won't work because they can't feed their population, much less provide low cost, quick sub 4hr rounds of golf.

[ctmason_98]

So Pepper, I'm mostly working from memory here and did not see the presser that the PGA of America held, correct me where I am mistaken.

PGA of America has stated their major efforts as part of Golf 2.0 include:

1) Partnership with Boys & Girls Clubs of America
2) Play Golf America including Get Golf Ready
3) PGA Junior League Golf
4) Player Development Regional Managers
5) Other "Grow the Game Initiatives" including participation in Tee it Forward campaign.
6) First Links Program in partnership with the ASGCA

By their own accounts they dedicated approximately $12 million for 2013 toward these collective "grow the game" initiatives, I can only assume that included in that figure is the approximately $350,000 annual contribution to the World Golf Foundation. There's also many other donations, the biggest probably is the $2.5 million annual support to The Boys & Girls Clubs of America, although not classified as a "Growth of Golf" contribution but charitable in nature, they do promote that partnership as a way of growing the game. There's many others to list, the Environmental Institute for Golf , LPGA Foundation, Executive Women's Golf Association, Diversity Golf Association,

I may be wrong on timing here, but at one point in 13 or 12 they announced $50,000 in total grants across several facilities as part of "First Links" to designate all or some portion of playable area at facilities toward new golfers. Perhaps they have awarded more grants, and I just don't know about it.

Many will note the absence of The First Tee. That's very intentional on the part of the supporters of The First Tee including the PGA of America. The First Tee is not designated as a "grow the game" program but rather a social program for youth to teach values through the game of golf.

These are not insignificant amounts, and should be lauded for the effort and the resources that are being dedicated. I personally do not believe that this investment by PGA of America and it's affiliates is going to be anywhere close to successful for a multitude of reasons. But people are right to suggest it should not go unnoticed.

[marmooskapaul]

[quote name='natedd' timestamp='1407958437' post='9926197']
[quote name='marmooskapaul' timestamp='1407951569' post='9925383']
Played a short course in Greenfield, IN yesterday and literally 3 of us had the whole course [no one in sight] to ourselves. Except for this kid selling ..found balls for .15 cents apiece...bought 20 of those. It was cool and light rain on and off but great golf weather for August. 2 1/2 or 3 hours ?? can't remember, but it's like this a lot around here during the week.
Paul
[/quote]

Arrowhead or the executive course?
[/quote]

Ha! Arrowhead...and that course gave me a little struggle yesterday...lol. Will be back to extract my revenge!, Let me know if your up for a game sometime.
Paul

[Break81]

How many golf courses actually close because they are losing money? In my area I can think of 1 and there are hundreds of golf courses.

I understand some are part of the parks and recs or subsidized but overall they made some money in a down economy.

I feel bad for local eateries that cannot compete with the chain style competition. Golf is doing well, just don't worry about the casual golfers that burned out the same time Tiger became less of a factor.

[Bingo1976]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1407971777' post='9927627']
Sometimes I think Golfwrx is ladened by either unhappy people or simply negative glass half empty people. Golf, for the most part, is NOT killing itself. Especially if any of you listened to PGA leadership recently talk to the press during the PGA. Their subject was the results of their national plan towards getting new blood into the game. They even provided expansion numbers of youth, and inferences regarding parents, which were impressive.

Also, I do not see the correlation between golf killing itself and any half-empty course taking 4:45hrs to finish. The former is a broad generalization while the later is course specific; not representative of all courses nationally.

Golf is doing what all other industries must do, right themselves. [url="http://buswk.co/1pOwvhk"]http://buswk.co/1pOwvhk[/url] Open too many courses for the market, courses must close. Same is true with retail coffee shops or little cell phone stores in malls.

PS, maybe the answer is control population growth, like, say China.... On second thought, that won't work because they can't feed their population, much less provide low cost, quick sub 4hr rounds of golf.
[/quote]

[url="http://feedingamerica.org/"]http://feedingamerica.org/[/url]

[duffer987]

[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1407965114' post='9926997']
[quote name='fore' timestamp='1407963596' post='9926835']
[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1407962739' post='9926703']
[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1407946342' post='9924741']
4:45 to play a 6400 yard course yesterday with a half full lot when I pulled in. 12:12 tee time on a Tuesday. No ranger. 5 some in front of us. 4 some in front of them.
It's 84 and sunny today and have no desire to play after that experience yesterday. Golf is killing itself.
[/quote]

So you're going to quit playing golf?
[/quote]

That would be the last straw.

That would make it 5 million and one. ….oh the humanity!
[/quote]
Mmmm.... I really, really love golf. The industry does not want people like me souring on this game. They've depended very heavily on us core golfers for many years. Golfers like myself start to bow out and your head will spin with all the course closures. So don't be quite so cavalier.
[/quote]

Eesh. You really aren't saving the drama for your mama are you?
Quit tomorrow. Golf won't miss you or call you asking you to come back.

[natedd]

[quote name='marmooskapaul' timestamp='1407984374' post='9929141']
[quote name='natedd' timestamp='1407958437' post='9926197']
[quote name='marmooskapaul' timestamp='1407951569' post='9925383']
Played a short course in Greenfield, IN yesterday and literally 3 of us had the whole course [no one in sight] to ourselves. Except for this kid selling ..found balls for .15 cents apiece...bought 20 of those. It was cool and light rain on and off but great golf weather for August. 2 1/2 or 3 hours ?? can't remember, but it's like this a lot around here during the week.
Paul
[/quote]

Arrowhead or the executive course?
[/quote]

Ha! Arrowhead...and that course gave me a little struggle yesterday...lol. Will be back to extract my revenge!, Let me know if your up for a game sometime.
Paul
[/quote]

The back 9 is sneaky good and hard. Too bad the front is a little blah at times.

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1407971777' post='9927627']
Sometimes I think Golfwrx is ladened by either unhappy people or simply negative glass half empty people. Golf, for the most part, is NOT killing itself. Especially if any of you listened to PGA leadership recently talk to the press during the PGA. Their subject was the results of their national plan towards getting new blood into the game. They even provided expansion numbers of youth, and inferences regarding parents, which were impressive.

Also, I do not see the correlation between golf killing itself and any half-empty course taking 4:45hrs to finish. The former is a broad generalization while the later is course specific; not representative of all courses nationally.

Golf is doing what all other industries must do, right themselves. [url="http://buswk.co/1pOwvhk"]http://buswk.co/1pOwvhk[/url] Open too many courses for the market, courses must close. Same is true with retail coffee shops or little cell phone stores in malls.

PS, maybe the answer is control population growth, like, say China.... On second thought, that won't work because they can't feed their population, much less provide low cost, quick sub 4hr rounds of golf.
[/quote]This is what I was going to say, better than I could say it, so THIS!

Regarding the 5 mill exodus?

LMAO, not nearly enough-

Been through this before, lol

The raw numbers were different, though the percentages were close, regarding leaving , dying, etc.

We're gonna be just fine Gals & Gents.

Well, if the glaciers don't melt and come down through the three rivers and take out my club.

Then, we've got issues

Have a nice day Peps

My Best,
Richard

[mr_divots]

[quote name='duffer987' timestamp='1408003297' post='9930177']
[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1407965114' post='9926997']
[quote name='fore' timestamp='1407963596' post='9926835']
[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1407962739' post='9926703']
[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1407946342' post='9924741']
4:45 to play a 6400 yard course yesterday with a half full lot when I pulled in. 12:12 tee time on a Tuesday. No ranger. 5 some in front of us. 4 some in front of them.
It's 84 and sunny today and have no desire to play after that experience yesterday. Golf is killing itself.
[/quote]

So you're going to quit playing golf?
[/quote]

That would be the last straw.

That would make it 5 million and one. ….oh the humanity!
[/quote]
Mmmm.... I really, really love golf. The industry does not want people like me souring on this game. They've depended very heavily on us core golfers for many years. Golfers like myself start to bow out and your head will spin with all the course closures. So don't be quite so cavalier.
[/quote]

Eesh. You really aren't saving the drama for your mama are you?
Quit tomorrow. Golf won't miss you or call you asking you to come back.
[/quote]
So many tough guys on WRX these days. Its golf. LOL!
I count for 4 golfers in surveys I get from different golf entities (avid golfer is usually like 15-20 rounds a year.)
People like me start dropping out, those figures become ghastly in a hurry. So yeah, they'd miss me. Big time. You too.

I'll be playing again today. Because I love to golf. Thanks.

[agray94]

I think there are just so many more options for people to do that it's natural that each established activity would lose numbers. We have a couple of generations that have grown up with more activities, more video games, more TV channels and far less free time because of it. As fewer kids pick up golf as a hobby obviously there will be fewer adults down the road.

[agray94]

I don't know the situation that caused you to play a 4:45 round of golf, I don't know the conditions or who you were playing with. It sounds like you were situated in a field of 4's and 5's which as a Ranger/Marshall I feel for but regardless of your numbers, you should be prepared to play at the pace of a foursome. 4:45 is a bit slow, we shoot for 4 hours during prime tee times, and 4:15 is the max.However keep in mind, 4:45 is literally waiting an extra 1:40 or less per hole- hardly a situation to quit over. I do not appreciate a slow round, but I would rather sit back and enjoy a slower round than not play at all. When playing with friends I can certainly find conversation or crap talking to fill the extra couple of minutes.
If you were playing single or as a twosome, I feel for you…that's really slow but if you are surrounded by other groups there just isn't anywhere to go. You can play through but you'll just be behind another large group. If there was a space to play through, then that's on the group in front and the course for not having a ranger, It's not on the game of golf itself.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='ctmason_98' timestamp='1407978769' post='9928381']
So Pepper, I'm mostly working from memory here and did not see the presser that the PGA of America held, correct me where I am mistaken.

PGA of America has stated their major efforts as part of Golf 2.0 include:

1) Partnership with Boys & Girls Clubs of America
2) Play Golf America including Get Golf Ready
3) PGA Junior League Golf
4) Player Development Regional Managers
5) Other "Grow the Game Initiatives" including participation in Tee it Forward campaign.
6) First Links Program in partnership with the ASGCA

By their own accounts they dedicated approximately $12 million for 2013 toward these collective "grow the game" initiatives, I can only assume that included in that figure is the approximately $350,000 annual contribution to the World Golf Foundation. There's also many other donations, the biggest probably is the $2.5 million annual support to The Boys & Girls Clubs of America, although not classified as a "Growth of Golf" contribution but charitable in nature, they do promote that partnership as a way of growing the game. There's many others to list, the Environmental Institute for Golf , LPGA Foundation, Executive Women's Golf Association, Diversity Golf Association,

I may be wrong on timing here, but at one point in 13 or 12 they announced $50,000 in total grants across several facilities as part of "First Links" to designate all or some portion of playable area at facilities toward new golfers. Perhaps they have awarded more grants, and I just don't know about it.

Many will note the absence of The First Tee. That's very intentional on the part of the supporters of The First Tee including the PGA of America. The First Tee is not designated as a "grow the game" program but rather a social program for youth to teach values through the game of golf.

These are not insignificant amounts, and should be lauded for the effort and the resources that are being dedicated. I personally do not believe that this investment by PGA of America and it's affiliates is going to be anywhere close to successful for a multitude of reasons. But people are right to suggest it should not go unnoticed.
[/quote]

The PGA functions much like 'all' private clubs, in that they are the ones that develop golf and youth for the games future. Muni's not so much, though they make efforts when economic conditions allow. Its unproductive though, to think either the PGA or all private clubs could, even under optimum conditions, effectively increase golf numbers "instantaneously", without outside influence. Which is what happened over the last twenty years or so. Big picture economics grew at such astounding rates, the golf world, along with other business markets and social segments were recipients.

The golf world, as I see it, is still attracting new blood, and it always will. The suggestion its dieing is nothing more than glass half-empty superficial perception. Though, the golf world, for an undetermined period, has to downsize to again identify its true golf supporters and determine how it will evolve in the future, till the next economic uptick in capitalism. The last ten years have been really hard on America's wallet.

I am not alone when saying golf offers something that others sports do not offer; that being one must enjoy tackling ongoing challenges. That attribute alone has effects that transfer elsewhere in a golfers life, presuming he/she isn't fighting it. Its that underlying effect that feeds into that one shot during 18, that brings us back for more.

Regardless of skill level or where the game is played, golf can and does builds character. Same is the case with "The First Tee" program. Thought its not factored in and referred to as a social program, essentially it molds minds using golf challenges and the ROG; future minds that will influence others to consider golf; the same as the PGA and all other supportive venues.

[teckneeklyperfect]

Sometimes golf is going to take 4:45 WOW ! sometimes it takes 3 hours or less. So ? S--- happens

[agray94]

[quote name='Hawkeye77' timestamp='1407969889' post='9927461']
[quote name='JWells' timestamp='1407955092' post='9925763']
Only 2:30 here in VA but I have to meet my parents for dinner out by there place and just can't swing it. If it just didn't quite take as long as it does I could of played. I'll try to get out tomorrow. Reason I posted here is because I truly believe time is the main thing stopping players
[/quote]

Your schedule isn't "golf's" fault. A little over two hours to drive to the course, pay, and tee off and play nine? That's wasn't an unreasonable time allotment 30 years ago.
[/quote]
I agree. What meaningful hobby doesn't take over two hours to do? go to a movie? play a softball league?bowling? take in a baseball game? paint a painting? You could bring up some type of workout but I don't put an aerobics type class, lifting or jogging in the same class as golfing. I have a season pass so there are times I go out and play 5 or 6 holes..just to play..usually only takes a little over an hour. I know the downfall is when you play a place that does not have a 9 hole rate, its hard not to feel like you have to play all 18.

[duffer987]

[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1408029852' post='9932121']
[quote name='duffer987' timestamp='1408003297' post='9930177']
[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1407965114' post='9926997']

Mmmm.... I really, really love golf. The industry does not want people like me souring on this game. They've depended very heavily on us core golfers for many years. Golfers like myself start to bow out and your head will spin with all the course closures. So don't be quite so cavalier.
[/quote]

Eesh. You really aren't saving the drama for your mama are you?
Quit tomorrow. Golf won't miss you or call you asking you to come back.
[/quote]
So many tough guys on WRX these days. Its golf. LOL!
I count for 4 golfers in surveys I get from different golf entities (avid golfer is usually like 15-20 rounds a year.)
People like me start dropping out, those figures become ghastly in a hurry. So yeah, they'd miss me. Big time. You too.

I'll be playing again today. Because I love to golf. Thanks.
[/quote]

Not a tough guy, no. But that post came across as melodramatic from my POV.

I played a fair bit of golf from '97-'00 (50 rounds/year), then pretty much gave up the game from then until I moved to California. Now from '12-onwards I am playing a lot again (100 rounds/year). I'm not impacting the big golf dying/living needle one bit. My reasons for playing and not playing were/are my own and I'm not leading to any blips or troughs in any stats out there.

Now if an individual is responsible for a local first tee program or something else that impacts a larger community of people fair enough, but an individual golfer? Not so much. Of course ymmv.

[Sean2]

Based on all the complaints about pace of play on this forum, I'd like to know where golf is "dying". It's alive and well in my area.

[Pepperturbo]

There is NO way in hell, Golfwrx complaints are representative of golf. Oops, I miss spoke; except maybe for the complaining segment.

[mr_divots]

[quote name='duffer987' timestamp='1408049321' post='9935235']
[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1408029852' post='9932121']
[quote name='duffer987' timestamp='1408003297' post='9930177']
[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1407965114' post='9926997']
Mmmm.... I really, really love golf. The industry does not want people like me souring on this game. They've depended very heavily on us core golfers for many years. Golfers like myself start to bow out and your head will spin with all the course closures. So don't be quite so cavalier.
[/quote]

Eesh. You really aren't saving the drama for your mama are you?
Quit tomorrow. Golf won't miss you or call you asking you to come back.
[/quote]
So many tough guys on WRX these days. Its golf. LOL!
I count for 4 golfers in surveys I get from different golf entities (avid golfer is usually like 15-20 rounds a year.)
People like me start dropping out, those figures become ghastly in a hurry. So yeah, they'd miss me. Big time. You too.

I'll be playing again today. Because I love to golf. Thanks.
[/quote]

Not a tough guy, no. But that post came across as melodramatic from my POV.

I played a fair bit of golf from '97-'00 (50 rounds/year), then pretty much gave up the game from then until I moved to California. Now from '12-onwards I am playing a lot again (100 rounds/year). I'm not impacting the big golf dying/living needle one bit. My reasons for playing and not playing were/are my own and I'm not leading to any blips or troughs in any stats out there.

Now if an individual is responsible for a local first tee program or something else that impacts a larger community of people fair enough, but an individual golfer? Not so much. Of course ymmv.
[/quote]
I just put forth my recent example because on a Tuesday with the lot half empty, I did not expect pace to be that slow, nor to be playing behind a fivesome.
No ranger at all. No bev cart. No water on the course. The course itself is as nice as I've ever seen it, and I've been playing there for 33 years since I was 6 years old. It was just an example of how everything was aligned for a nice day, and due to cost cutting here and there, something many people are seeing at their courses too, it made it much less enjoyable.
I thought it was an apropo experience to relay given the thread topic. I played my home course today in 3 hours. All is right in the world again.

[ASXA]

I find so much of the talk of the youth push to build golf interesting. Kids (who are expensive individuals by nature)... have no disposable income.

It would only make sense to me that the PGA and USGA would direct their game growing programs toward 20 and 30 somethings... who largely have more disposable income and unrestricted time to invest in golf.

And before anyone beings with: "NOT IN THIS ECONOMY..."

Stroll past any strip of bars on a Thursday and it is full of young 20 somethings blowing their money on liquor. A gym on a tuesday.... packed a** to elbow with 20 somethings in lulu lemon gear blowing their money on an elliptical. Don't even get me started on the Mall (aka the 7th circle of hell). Despite what our 20 somethings are saying to their parents (in the way of begging of cash) and saying to the media (we're not lazy the economy ruined us!), they actually have money, time and energy for this. They certainly have TONS of life left to get really good at the game.

Who knows... I'm probably wrong. I can say for certain though, at 29, I and all of my girlfriends my age who have recently started playing, constantly lament that we had wish we had started playing earlier. Had this been "marketed" to me when I was a 21 year old looking for something to do I would have started then, but I basically didn't have "access" until all my friends working in business and essentially HAD to learn to play.

[Startzel]

[quote name='ASXA' timestamp='1408056066' post='9936199']
I find so much of the talk of the youth push to build golf interesting. Kids (who are expensive individuals by nature)... have no disposable income.

It would only make sense to me that the PGA and USGA would direct their game growing programs toward 20 and 30 somethings... who largely have more disposable income and unrestricted time to invest in golf.

And before anyone beings with: "NOT IN THIS ECONOMY..."

Stroll past any strip of bars on a Thursday and it is full of young 20 somethings blowing their money on liquor. A gym on a tuesday.... packed a** to elbow with 20 somethings in lulu lemon gear blowing their money on an elliptical. Don't even get me started on the Mall (aka the 7th circle of hell). Despite what our 20 somethings are saying to their parents (in the way of begging of cash) and saying to the media (we're not lazy the economy ruined us!), they actually have money, time and energy for this. They certainly have TONS of life left to get really good at the game.

Who knows... I'm probably wrong. I can say for certain though, at 29, I and all of my girlfriends my age who have recently started playing, constantly lament that we had wish we had started playing earlier. Had this been "marketed" to me when I was a 21 year old looking for something to do I would have started then, but I basically didn't have "access" until all my friends working in business and essentially HAD to learn to play.
[/quote]

Great post, I'm roughly the same age. It's amazing how different out generation is compared to the ones of the past. We are putting off marriage more than any generation in history.

With that being said guys are going to be much more inclined to spend their disposable income in a bar hoping to find a girl to go home with them. A guy is never going to find a girl to go home with him on a golf course.

Prior generations were already married so they had someone to go home to and more importantly their wives weren't going to let them blow the disposable income on booze at a bar. So they turned used that money at a golf course with a bar as their wives knew they weren't going to be able to meet women there.

[ASXA]

[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1408056779' post='9936289']



With that being said guys are going to be much more inclined to spend their disposable income in a bar hoping to find a girl to go home with them. A guy is never going to find a girl to go home with him on a golf course.


[/quote]

Unless we get more girls out there

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='ASXA' timestamp='1408056066' post='9936199']
I find so much of the talk of the youth push to build golf interesting. Kids (who are expensive individuals by nature)... have no disposable income.

It would only make sense to me that the PGA and USGA would direct their game growing programs toward 20 and 30 somethings... who largely have more disposable income and unrestricted time to invest in golf.

And before anyone beings with: "NOT IN THIS ECONOMY..."

Stroll past any strip of bars on a Thursday and it is full of young 20 somethings blowing their money on liquor. A gym on a tuesday.... packed a** to elbow with 20 somethings in lulu lemon gear blowing their money on an elliptical. Don't even get me started on the Mall (aka the 7th circle of hell). Despite what our 20 somethings are saying to their parents (in the way of begging of cash) and saying to the media (we're not lazy the economy ruined us!), they actually have money, time and energy for this. They certainly have TONS of life left to get really good at the game.

Who knows... I'm probably wrong. I can say for certain though, at 29, I and all of my girlfriends my age who have recently started playing, constantly lament that we had wish we had started playing earlier. Had this been "marketed" to me when I was a 21 year old looking for something to do I would have started then, but I basically didn't have "access" until all my friends working in business and essentially HAD to learn to play.
[/quote]

Makes perfect sense, however, I am pretty sure The PGA, USGA & R&A know, from studies, the 20-30 something age group your targeting is not going to make an economic difference in the present, partly because that demographic tends to be fickle and hasn't, for the most part, found themselves. To know what I mean, by 30 many have had 5 or more jobs and still don't know what they want to do. Heck, a large percentage today have moved back home.

That same age group has always affected restaurants and bars too, and also, in many cases, in the throws of starting a family. Additionally, I don't believe those that "frequent" strip bars are really the same people that would frequent golf courses, or the types that would join private golf clubs. That's not to say the same hasn't visited a strip bar, because I have. Its to say, those that find value in "frequenting" a strip bar, are not likely to value golfs challenges. I could be wrong, but from my community service here in CA, its not the case. My 2 cents.

Golf wasn't marketed much when I was 21. Not till about twenty-five years back did 'marketing' become plausible, and that was because the economy was flourishing. Having been on membership committees of two clubs, what we learned was 21-30 somethings were not of economic value at the present, due to limited funds, etc., but were and still are seen as the future of golf or any other segment. That's substantiated by the fact, private clubs offer highly discounted memberships fees to that segment, till they turn 38-40. Stats show by that age, family's have grown and debt structures are minimal making the age group the economic difference in the present.

[ASXA]

Yeah I was saying A STRIP of bars.... not the strip club. Like... a row of bars where people go out at night...and you know... bar hop. :P

Trust me I'm not exactly looking for Booby bar clientele joining my local course either... although I certainly welcome anyone.


I do see what you're saying though. Theres no doubt in my mind that 21-25 year olds wouldn't exactly be viewed as revenue drivers for a club. Hell, THE BF and I do really well for ourselves, we own our own home, 2 luxury cars, take pretty swank vacations, and a private club membership is NOT AT ALL in the picture for us financially ($25,000 is not doable for seasonal golf). To wit: I don't want sink money into a membership, I'd rather play different courses. The ol'Club Life and Membership culture just doesn't really apply to these age groups anymore, but that doesn't mean that they can be revenue generators for other aspects of the game.

A nearby public course did a promotion earlier this year called "30 under 30". $30 bucks for 18 holes with cart per person if you're under 30 years old. They even gave you free club rental if you didn't own your own set (with a refundable deposit of course). It was IMPOSSIBLE to get a tee time on 30 under 30 days and it was mostly new golfers. Guys bringing out their girlfriends, siblings, buddies who never played golf before. I've made quite a few new buds because of the 30 under 30 days and it was loads of fun to golf all day and then slam fireball shots in the clubhouse after with all the other golfers my age.

I feel like things like this.... golf as something social that 20 and 30 somethings can do can help lift the veil over golf that make people perceive it as "my retired dads boring hobby"

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='ASXA' timestamp='1408057308' post='9936345']
Yeah I was saying A STRIP of bars.... not the strip club. Like... a row of bars where people go out at night...and you know... bar hop. :P

Trust me I'm not exactly looking for Booby bar clientele joining my local course either... although I certainly welcome anyone.
[/quote]

My error... enjoy.

[Sean2]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1408057219' post='9936329']
[quote name='ASXA' timestamp='1408056066' post='9936199']
I find so much of the talk of the youth push to build golf interesting. Kids (who are expensive individuals by nature)... have no disposable income.

It would only make sense to me that the PGA and USGA would direct their game growing programs toward 20 and 30 somethings... who largely have more disposable income and unrestricted time to invest in golf.

And before anyone beings with: "NOT IN THIS ECONOMY..."

Stroll past any strip of bars on a Thursday and it is full of young 20 somethings blowing their money on liquor. A gym on a tuesday.... packed a** to elbow with 20 somethings in lulu lemon gear blowing their money on an elliptical. Don't even get me started on the Mall (aka the 7th circle of hell). Despite what our 20 somethings are saying to their parents (in the way of begging of cash) and saying to the media (we're not lazy the economy ruined us!), they actually have money, time and energy for this. They certainly have TONS of life left to get really good at the game.

Who knows... I'm probably wrong. I can say for certain though, at 29, I and all of my girlfriends my age who have recently started playing, constantly lament that we had wish we had started playing earlier. Had this been "marketed" to me when I was a 21 year old looking for something to do I would have started then, but I basically didn't have "access" until all my friends working in business and essentially HAD to learn to play.
[/quote]

Makes perfect sense, however, I am pretty sure The PGA, USGA & R&A know, from studies, the 20-30 something age group your targeting is not going to make an economic difference in the present, partly because that demographic tends to be fickle and hasn't, for the most part, found themselves. To know what I mean, by 30 many have had 5 or more jobs and still don't know what they want to do. Heck, a large percentage today have moved back home.

That same age group has always affected restaurants and bars too, and also, in many cases, in the throws of starting a family. Additionally, I don't believe those that "frequent" strip bars are really the same people that would frequent golf courses, or the types that would join private golf clubs. That's not to say the same hasn't visited a strip bar, because I have. Its to say, those that find value in "frequenting" a strip bar, are not likely to value golfs challenges. I could be wrong, but from my community service here in CA, its not the case. My 2 cents.

Golf wasn't marketed much when I was 21. Not till about twenty-five years back did 'marketing' become plausible, and that was because the economy was flourishing. Having been on membership committees of two clubs, what we learned was 21-30 somethings were not of economic value at the present, due to limited funds, etc., but were and still are seen as the future of golf or any other segment. That's substantiated by the fact, private clubs offer highly discounted memberships fees to that segment, till they turn 38-40. Stats show by that age, family's have grown and debt structures are minimal making the age group the economic difference in the present.
[/quote]

Pepper, I grew up in a lower middle class city. Golf? That was for those we perceived as the wealthy. There was absolutely no effort to "sell" kids on the game back then, and certainly not kids of our socio-economic status. Sure, we knew of Snead, Hogan, and Palmer, but that was about it.

[Conrad1953]

Well, this thread has been going for nearly 4 months. Certainly,
that must mean something. I just don't know what it is.