Manual de la Torre Method

[The Pearl]

Another of Rodd's post's about returning the club to the address position.

 

http://slatergolf.blogspot.com/2016/01/address-vs-impact-position.html

[wmblake2000]

Pearl, thx. I think it was in the Hayes book where he talks about not trying to get the hands ahead of the ball. I will look it up and post the exact quote.

 

I am not trying to split hairs or get technical for its own sake. I just want to figure out where more consistent compression comes from. I think the first Slater post might have a clue but I am struggling to really understand it.

[wmblake2000]

 

You sound like me, in that trying to produce a different ballflight creates noticeable changes in the way my swing works and looks. For example, I could try to manufacture forward lean until the cows come home, but I can create more, and do it more easily if I think "really low", or "really low cut".

 

Yeah, plus I don't want to lose MDLT simplicity. I am trying to reshape how I think based on club swinging.

[The Pearl]

Pearl, thx. I think it was in the Hayes book where he talks about not trying to get the hands ahead of the ball. I will look it up and post the exact quote. I am not trying to split hairs or get technical for its own sake. I just want to figure out where more consistent compression comes from. I think the first Slater post might have a clue but I am struggling to really understand it.

 

Got it. I would say to certainly not try to get the hands ahead of the ball to try to create shaft lean. I think this is consistent with MDLT, although I am certainly skirting on the edges of my qualifications to comment with certainty.

 

Perhaps maybe you should just ignore compression and any thoughts about it or creating it? To me, compression conveys the intent to direct the swing DOWN rather than at the target. Remember the ball just gets in the way of the swinging motion.

 

One note from my lesson that I clearly remember is Manuel's disdain for taking a massive divot such as you see in many of the tour pro's. You can see the swinging motion of the club and him sweeping the ball in the video of him hitting balls on the range.

 

As I always circle back to, because I have gone down the path, don't go to the 2nd level analysis. He is precise in his language, on purpose. He means exactly what he says. No more, no less.

[Moleman]

One thing I've noticed when I swing the club to the target is my ball is finishing well left of my target, I know this is due to my fairly extreme out to in swing, on trackman I'm swinging anywhere from 8 to 14 degrees out to in...

 

Last lesson I had with my pro a few months ago he has me exaggerating a swing out to the right where it feels to me like I'm swinging 45degrees to the right when on the trackman I'm still swinging a few degrees left!!

 

When I swing the club directly to the target as prescribed I know my natural out/in swing is causing a pulling/slicing shot however when I swing the whole club to the right of the target I'm getting my path closer to zero and getting either a very slight push or even a little draw..

 

I know MDLT advocates just swinging to target but any problem with me sticking with my 'right field' feel until I groove a better path?

[The Pearl]

One thing I've noticed when I swing the club to the target is my ball is finishing well left of my target, I know this is due to my fairly extreme out to in swing, on trackman I'm swinging anywhere from 8 to 14 degrees out to in... Last lesson I had with my pro a few months ago he has me exaggerating a swing out to the right where it feels to me like I'm swinging 45degrees to the right when on the trackman I'm still swinging a few degrees left!! When I swing the club directly to the target as prescribed I know my natural out/in swing is causing a pulling/slicing shot however when I swing the whole club to the right of the target I'm getting my path closer to zero and getting either a very slight push or even a little draw.. I know MDLT advocates just swinging to target but any problem with me sticking with my 'right field' feel until I groove a better path?

 

If the ball is flying to the target, assuming little to no curvature (face relatively square to the path), than by definition you are swinging the club at the target. You are either swinging the club toward the target or you are not.

 

You might want to give John Hayes's drill a try. I use the golf ball drill frequently.

 

 

I have been where you are and still too often visit the "land of the left". Generally speaking, in my case, and perhaps in your case, it is a result of beginning the forward swing with the shoulders. Once the shoulders initiate the forward swing, you are heading left with the club. If you square the face up, like me, you get pulls. If you don't, you get a one way ticket to slice city.

 

AND YES, you can still try to have the intention to move your path WAY right and still swing the club to the left and still pull it. Been there, done that.

[Moleman]

Thanks for the reply Pearl, your description is 100% me! The ball flight tells me that what my brain perceives as swinging right is actually swinging dead at the target..

 

I'll check out the drill..

 

 

[The Pearl]

Thanks for the reply Pearl, your description is 100% me! The ball flight tells me that what my brain perceives as swinging right is actually swinging dead at the target..

 

I'll check out the drill..

 

Hit impulse using the shoulders. Manuel and I had a lengthy discussion about this issue which was my main kryptonite. In his gentle, non-critical way he told me I had it very bad.

 

Using the shoulders to initiate the forward swing is the feeling of power. It is a big misconception obviously. In my case, and possibly your case, to compensate you have to throw your hands out at the ball. Lots of bad stuff happens. In my case, along with the pulls, I get lots of toe shots and what I call thumpers were the club just smacks the ground right behind the ball.

 

Using the shoulders and the hands drives all the energy of the swing downward into the ground rather than swinging on the arc towards the target. That was a big revelation that Manuel shared.

 

FOR ME, my shoulder swing is simply jerking the club in transition to gain speed. Leverage in MDLT. I have been largely able to over come it with Manuel's description andt intent that the swing is one continual motion AND FOR ME I have to only have the intent to add any type of acceleration in the follow through. FOR ME, I really can't try to add any acceleration into the ball. Right or wrong, FOR ME, I have to sense that I am swinging the club at the same tempo in the backswing and into impact.

 

I use the Swing Speed Radar device. It gives club head speed and Swing Tempo. It has been invaluable in giving feedback to show what good tempo feels like and creates. You certainly should be able to experiment with this since you have access to Trackman.

[bph7]

Pearl, thx. I think it was in the Hayes book where he talks about not trying to get the hands ahead of the ball. I will look it up and post the exact quote.

 

I am not trying to split hairs or get technical for its own sake. I just want to figure out where more consistent compression comes from. I think the first Slater post might have a clue but I am struggling to really understand it.

 

Compression, by definition, comes from lowering spin loft. It does not necessarily require shaft lean, although most good players will have it as a result of proper impact dynamics.

[nlk10010]

Thanks for the reply Pearl, your description is 100% me! The ball flight tells me that what my brain perceives as swinging right is actually swinging dead at the target..

 

I'll check out the drill..

 

Hit impulse using the shoulders. Manuel and I had a lengthy discussion about this issue which was my main kryptonite. In his gentle, non-critical way he told me I had it very bad.

 

Using the shoulders to initiate the forward swing is the feeling of power. It is a big misconception obviously. In my case, and possibly your case, to compensate you have to throw your hands out at the ball. Lots of bad stuff happens. In my case, along with the pulls, I get lots of toe shots and what I call thumpers were the club just smacks the ground right behind the ball.

 

Using the shoulders and the hands drives all the energy of the swing downward into the ground rather than swinging on the arc towards the target. That was a big revelation that Manuel shared.

 

FOR ME, my shoulder swing is simply jerking the club in transition to gain speed. Leverage in MDLT. I have been largely able to over come it with Manuel's description andt intent that the swing is one continual motion AND FOR ME I have to only have the intent to add any type of acceleration in the follow through. FOR ME, I really can't try to add any acceleration into the ball. Right or wrong, FOR ME, I have to sense that I am swinging the club at the same tempo in the backswing and into impact.

 

I use the Swing Speed Radar device. It gives club head speed and Swing Tempo. It has been invaluable in giving feedback to show what good tempo feels like and creates. You certainly should be able to experiment with this since you have access to Trackman.

 

I really appreciate your post as I have all the faults you've described (hit impulse/hands/shoulders), probably even worse than you do. It's nice to know that there can be a way out.

 

I don't know if this applies to you but in my case this bundle of problems is associated with my unwillingness/inability to slow my swing down. I can take the club up nicely over my shoulder but then I immediately force it down with the shoulders and arms and hit at the ball with the hands. All this results in the thump you mentioned, a sound I have come to dread. My instructor has told me to shift my weight a bit onto my left foot just before the downswing. I know this may be anathema to the MDLT method, but he has looked at my swing and feels I have a strong tendency to hang back. This move has the added benefit of slowing my swing down, which inevitably results in an improvement in my ball-striking (relatively speaking, of course). I've coupled this with trying to concentrate on moving the club with my bicep area and I can see some improvement.

[wmblake2000]

 

Compression, by definition, comes from lowering spin loft. It does not necessarily require shaft lean, although most good players will have it as a result of proper impact dynamics.

 

bph, thx. I had never heard of spin loft until your post. Here's the best link I found for others like me: http://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2013/02/compress-the-golf-ball

 

I think this concept maybe explains why about 10% of my swings on the range go 1-2 clubs farther. It's not so much speed or center strike but maybe this dynamic explains it.

 

I don't even know how to frame my next question. Brain is kind of on tilt. But this is tracking somewhere good. Just don't want to lose the beauty of MDLT simplicity. This is relevant.

 

It's like some people have messaged me, asking how MDLT and me taking lessons from Monte work. I guess my response is, the challenge of golf is to take what can get really complex and distill it down. I am convinced MDLT has a system that does this very well, brilliantly. This doesn't make Monte irrelevant or discount trackman. It just means you have to really get clear about what you're trying to do with the club and why. It doesn't make me 'anti-information' but it does make me want to simplify my 'swing mind' to its most basic elements. Right now, what's happening is my idea of the golf swing is morphing. It's going from body-centric to club centric. Next will probably be target centric.

 

I wonder what MDLT thought about trackman? Anyone know? I am not sure if he'd like it or not. I can imagine both attitudes from him. But what do I know?!

[wmblake2000]

I kind of think http://slatergolf.blogspot.com/2016/02/3-forward-on-grass.html and http://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2013/02/compress-the-golf-ball are saying the same thing.

 

If anyone else reads these two, do you agree?

[Jasonic]

One thing I've noticed when I swing the club to the target is my ball is finishing well left of my target, I know this is due to my fairly extreme out to in swing, on trackman I'm swinging anywhere from 8 to 14 degrees out to in...

 

Last lesson I had with my pro a few months ago he has me exaggerating a swing out to the right where it feels to me like I'm swinging 45degrees to the right when on the trackman I'm still swinging a few degrees left!!

 

When I swing the club directly to the target as prescribed I know my natural out/in swing is causing a pulling/slicing shot however when I swing the whole club to the right of the target I'm getting my path closer to zero and getting either a very slight push or even a little draw..

 

I know MDLT advocates just swinging to target but any problem with me sticking with my 'right field' feel until I groove a better path?

 

I was (am) doing this at first as well. Everything left. A little anecdote from the Haynes book cleared it up for me though. I was thinking swing to the target as in getting the shaft parallel left on my feet line when that is actually left of the target. This position happens naturally on the proper arc but trying to get it there is actually left of the actual target line. Huge lightbulb for me that anecdote. Now I swing TOWARDS THE TARGET so the clip head feels pointing right of the target but is actually on the correct arc...huge improvement for me and mental approach. Seems so simple now but have been fighting that for awhile.

[The Pearl]

Thanks for the reply Pearl, your description is 100% me! The ball flight tells me that what my brain perceives as swinging right is actually swinging dead at the target..

 

I'll check out the drill..

 

Hit impulse using the shoulders. Manuel and I had a lengthy discussion about this issue which was my main kryptonite. In his gentle, non-critical way he told me I had it very bad.

 

Using the shoulders to initiate the forward swing is the feeling of power. It is a big misconception obviously. In my case, and possibly your case, to compensate you have to throw your hands out at the ball. Lots of bad stuff happens. In my case, along with the pulls, I get lots of toe shots and what I call thumpers were the club just smacks the ground right behind the ball.

 

Using the shoulders and the hands drives all the energy of the swing downward into the ground rather than swinging on the arc towards the target. That was a big revelation that Manuel shared.

 

FOR ME, my shoulder swing is simply jerking the club in transition to gain speed. Leverage in MDLT. I have been largely able to over come it with Manuel's description andt intent that the swing is one continual motion AND FOR ME I have to only have the intent to add any type of acceleration in the follow through. FOR ME, I really can't try to add any acceleration into the ball. Right or wrong, FOR ME, I have to sense that I am swinging the club at the same tempo in the backswing and into impact.

 

I use the Swing Speed Radar device. It gives club head speed and Swing Tempo. It has been invaluable in giving feedback to show what good tempo feels like and creates. You certainly should be able to experiment with this since you have access to Trackman.

 

I really appreciate your post as I have all the faults you've described (hit impulse/hands/shoulders), probably even worse than you do. It's nice to know that there can be a way out.

 

I don't know if this applies to you but in my case this bundle of problems is associated with my unwillingness/inability to slow my swing down. I can take the club up nicely over my shoulder but then I immediately force it down with the shoulders and arms and hit at the ball with the hands. All this results in the thump you mentioned, a sound I have come to dread. My instructor has told me to shift my weight a bit onto my left foot just before the downswing. I know this may be anathema to the MDLT method, but he has looked at my swing and feels I have a strong tendency to hang back. This move has the added benefit of slowing my swing down, which inevitably results in an improvement in my ball-striking (relatively speaking, of course). I've coupled this with trying to concentrate on moving the club with my bicep area and I can see some improvement.

 

Remember that I am only trying to share my experiences only because I am farther along than most of you in using the MDLT approach, plus I took the three lessons directly. I am not an expert like JustSteve and I am certainly by no means trying to contradict any instructor that anybody in this thread is working with, I am simply trying to share my journey. So with tha disclaimer,

 

Nearly every body-focused instructor will initially, when faced with the shoulder swing/hit impulse, default to the "hip bump", get to the "left side" solution. As you are doing, I went down this road as one of my "add-ons" to the MDLT approach. FOR ME, it was simply a big waste of time and one of the ways I got off the beaten path. I of course tried a few other cure's; drastically trying to shift my path way right, shortening my swing, trying to manipulate my backswing, etc.

 

You can take this for what it is worth, but I am convinced now that I have largely solved the problem, that the solution is mostly mental, not physical. It is a complete misinterpretation of the source of power. This is why I advocate the SSR device or something similar so that you see what great results are produced swinging in good tempo, without tension, leverage and in balance. It is not really slowing down or swinging easy. You might call it finding your individual sweet spot. I do believe that if you find your own personal sweep spot, the club stays on the arc. Perhaps a comparison is walking. We instantly know what "power" walking feels like and what "strolling" feels like. I would compare the right swing sweep spot to a "brisk" walk. Walking briskly feels "comfortable" and "purposeful" where power walking quickly gets uncomfortable and strolling lacks structure and purpose.

 

I didn't get the connection until I just starting swing really hard and really easy and all other tempo's in between and than reading the data and piecing the results together. As Manny said, "observe yourself."

 

If I swing as hard as I can, I generate clubhead speed of 94/95 mph. About .91/.92 on the Tempo. Ball goes all over hell, mostly left. I finish off balance. Face of the driver looks like a kid with acne.

 

If I swing "easy", and by easy, I mean feeling as if I am barely getting the club to move. 85 mph clubhead speed, often below. At least 1.00 second or more on the Tempo. The dispersion lessens, but face contact is not as good as you would expect. On balance, but the ball literally goes nowhere.

 

Now, if I swing as I mentioned prior, in one continual motion at my natural pace with the intent of the same speed back and to the ball with the intent of some acceleration to finish off the follow through I get:

 

91/92 MPH

.95 Tempo

 

.85 Tempo with irons and hybrids.

 

It is pretty much spot on now with a great deal of consistency. ball goes in the general direction of the target. Finish is on balance. Let's keep it real. I am not a pro or even a scratch golfer, but you get the idea. I can hit mostly where I want with decent contact. Consistent without any swing thoughts and getting all tied up in knots. Plenty of mental capacity left for the short-game.

 

NOW, here is the good or bad part, depending on how you look at it. If I put a swing on it and it goes left, I can tell you without looking down, what the Tempo will be. Probably in the low .90s for the driver. If I am really off kilter, .89 or below. Same thing if I slice one badly. If I hit a few poor, I simply try to find the tempo sweet spot again. It usually helps to immediately grab an 8/9 iron, take a couple of swings to get back on track. I have gotten pretty good at it and I can usually do it on the course now, as well.

 

There are a few points here:

 

1. Your personal sweet spot, at this point in time, is going to feel like slow motion.

 

2. Too fast and too slow are both equally bad. Too fast is too much tension and leverage. Too slow is zero tension and lacks purpose.

 

3. You have to take it to the course. What I did and what I do, when given the chance, is go play by yourself and experiment. You have to go to the course and realize how your personal sweet spot is going to translate to the same or longer distances than you are getting now with your shoulder driven power swing. Until you do this you can't flip the switch in your brain. You have to play your home course, put the ball in your normal spots, and have a come to Jesus moment. I can tell you, you are going to stand there and have every single fiber in your body want to leverage the crap out of that club in transition and beat the living snot out of the ball sitting at your feet. You have to get over this mental hump. If not, the next time you play with your buddies, or it is a strange course where the visuals are unfamiliar, or the God forbid the wind is blowing, you will in a flash resort back and start chopping and yanking.

[nlk10010]

Pearl: I understand most everything you've said. "Personal sweet spot" is interesting as that in effect is what I'm trying to find. In particular, when my instructor demonstrates the swing there's a distinctive delay as the club comes swinging down and SMACKS into the back of the ball, I get that every once in a while and that's EXACTLY the feeling I want (and like). It's just that swinging that way seems to me like it's taking forever. I KNOW that my usual swing is way too fast, hurried, and armsy/handsy.

 

I should just add one thing to make sure I'm not misunderstood: My instructor specifically said to me that he did NOT want any sort of bump, he just wants me to transfer the weight from the inside of my lead foot back to the outside. "Imperceptible" he calls the movement. Now, again, I realize this runs counter to Manny's teachings but it DOES help slow my swing down in the direction of the tempo I'm looking to achieve. I think one aspect my swing IS definitely lacking is, as you put it, CONTINUITY. One smooth stroke from the top through to the finish. Hopefully that will help give me some distance. As I said to my instructor: "I can hit that m****rf*****g ball as sweet as can be with my seven iron and it STILL goes barely 100 yards".

 

It's a work in progress. :)

[The Pearl]

Pearl: I understand most everything you've said. "Personal sweet spot" is interesting as that in effect is what I'm trying to find. In particular, when my instructor demonstrates the swing there's a distinctive delay as the club comes swinging down and SMACKS into the back of the ball, I get that every once in a while and that's EXACTLY the feeling I want (and like). It's just that swinging that way seems to me like it's taking forever. I KNOW that my usual swing is way too fast, hurried, and armsy/handsy.

 

I should just add one thing to make sure I'm not misunderstood: My instructor specifically said to me that he did NOT want any sort of bump, he just wants me to transfer the weight from the inside of my lead foot back to the outside. "Imperceptible" he calls the movement. Now, again, I realize this runs counter to Manny's teachings but it DOES help slow my swing down in the direction of the tempo I'm looking to achieve. I think one aspect my swing IS definitely lacking is, as you put it, CONTINUITY. One smooth stroke from the top through to the finish. Hopefully that will help give me some distance. As I said to my instructor: "I can hit that m****rf*****g ball as sweet as can be with my seven iron and it STILL goes barely 100 yards".

 

It's a work in progress. :)

 

No worries. You will get it. It will click. Searching for the continuity and the right tempo is crucial.

[wmblake2000]

I hope this post doesn't take things too far afield.

 

One of the things about MDLT is he clearly implies there are other complementary things the body does in response to the swing he describes. For example, I had posted several weeks ago about Monte's 'zipper out' feel and Steve posted that he doesn't need to do that because in the backswing he creates space as a response to his backswing - he just doesn't 'undo' that space. Fair enough. This really illustrated a principle of MDLT approach.

 

Then as I was asking about shaft lean. Here's the quote from Hayes book: "They tell you today your hands should be ahead of the ball at impact. To me that is a ridiculous thing." (Hayes quoting MDLT) In fairness, now that I looked at it again, MDLT was talking about the face being open and in that context, i understand his meaning.

 

Anyway, from the link from bph and the idea of 'spin loft' the essence of compression is the result of the face (dynamic loft) and the direction of the head at impact being as close together as possible (with some details omitted) and the key to this is to have hands ahead of the head at and beyond impact (which is perhaps slightly different from being ahead of the ball).

 

So I was fooling around with this at the range on this lovely Saturday afternoon (next to two young women hitting balls for the first time and laughing uproariously... quite fun to watch). Something Monte had told me last time I saw him - move the r arm and the shoulder toward the target at the same time. Don't get disconnected as the arms swing the club. The shoulder rotation still matters - it just doesn't motivate the swing in MDLT's approach.

 

I tried this - sort of backed into it with the question of 'how to get the hands ahead of club at impact' and bingo, there was consistent compression. Pretty fabulous actually.

 

My point is this. The shoulders are still led by the arm swing - but led much more quickly. For this to happen, I also intended for this to happen - it wasn't automatic as a inevitable consequence of swinging the arms with the hands more ahead of the head thru impact. It was a logical conclusion to try it (especially since Monte had planted the idea).

[bph7]

I kind of think http://slatergolf.blogspot.com/2016/02/3-forward-on-grass.html and http://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2013/02/compress-the-golf-ball are saying the same thing.

 

If anyone else reads these two, do you agree?

 

The Andrew rice one is what I was getting at and a very good description.

[birly-shirly]

I would think that "compression" in the sense of low spin-loft is an almost trivial concern compared to sweet-spot impact, face angle, swing path and clubhead speed.

 

Wmblake - are you sure that what you're feeling as "compression" isn't just catching one absolutely flush in the sweetspot? I think that to do so does require some turf interaction on most shots from most lies - it's tough to pick the ball absolutely clean without also catching it a little skinny. I really like the swing thought which I think Steve attributed to Manuel of visualising the club just scraping the turf on the target side of the ball.

 

Personally, I'm not sure that they ideas of delofting the club through impact or replacing the whole club 3" forward of address won't lead to a sense of manipulating the club rather than letting it swing.

 

Pearl - great post. I think you're spot on about finding the sweet spot between overpowering the swing and pulling your punches.

[wmblake2000]

Birly ... Maybe. But I *think* the feel if compressing the ball is more than flush impact. I think it also involves the hands being ahead of the face at and through impact.

 

Regardless - because I truly don't know - the thing I saw yesterday with how the shoulder motion 'joining' the arm swing is a move I have often see work and then vanish. Something clicked yesterday about this - the arms are still the initiators of the forward swing but the shoulders respond quicker and differently. This delivered great impact, got me much more fully on left side. This move created the hands ahead of the head (I think).

 

I think the elusive part of this is how does one keep arms and pivot in sync? This has led to arms vs pivot approaches. While I clearly prefer arm over pivot as it is just better for me in terms of speed and consistency, the challenge remains to get things in sync. MDLT talks about r foot perpendicular when the club is parallel to ground after impact as the indicator. He also talks about shoulders rotating as a unit. So my tentative conclusion is that the response of the shoulders to the arms swinging is something that I think matters and doesn't necessarily follow automatically. Not if they are already conditioned for a different move. The r shoulder, too, needs to 'swing to the target.'

 

This idea led to repeated compressed shots on the range. Now... Will it be there again next time?

[wmblake2000]

Here's a quote attributed to MDLT from a link Pearl posted: (http://slatergolf.blogspot.com/2016/01/address-vs-impact-position.html)

He elaborated "because the body is turning at the top and everything is moving together. The body is moving and turning ahead of the club, so when it gets to the ball the club will be in that same address position but the body will be in this position (he displays the typical impact body position). So at that point this (pointing at the arm and club) will be in extension together."

"The impact position is something that just happens because of the turning action of the body in relation to the club's motion."

"The key thing: To hit a square object flush it must return as it was though the body would be turned and with the hands ahead it can not be flush."

***

This is consistent with what I was seeing yesterday. The club is oriented to the body and when the body turns better to stay in sync with the arms, good things happen.

[NoTalentLefty]

This has been quite an exchange of thoughts. After reading de la Torre , and seeing it on video and mirrors, it comes down to this swing the club head back and forward swing with arms, everything else follows. I'm too stupid to think about anything else.

[dlygrisse]

This has been quite an exchange of thoughts. After reading de la Torre , and seeing it on video and mirrors, it comes down to this swing the club head back and forward swing with arms, everything else follows. I'm too stupid to think about anything else.

 

Seems we are trying to make a very simple concept complicated.

 

Why over analyze? The beauty is in the simplicity, thinking of these things seems to be the antithesis of what he was teaching. And I have been down that road in the past which is why I find this concept appealing.

 

1. Correct grip

2. Correct stance and alignment

3. Swing the club head back over the right shoulder

4. Swing the entire club towards the target with your arms

 

That's really all you need to think about. Everything else takes care of itself.

[Will Par]

I've followed this topic almost from it's inception and I come back and reread it in it's entirety occasionally. I have read the book multiple times. Many golf instructors teach a method or a specific way to swing the club. The beauty and wisdom of Manuel's instruction is that he doesn't teach a method, he teaches a concept. Everything starts with a concise, effective concept of the golf swing. That concept gives us specific intent from the very beginning and for every individual shot, all based on the concept. We each can build our swing on the same concept using the same swing keys and each swing will have it's own differences based on how our body responds to the swinging motion. We all get personalized instruction and a personalized swing from a concept. I think that is just brilliant.

 

I think the concept of swinging the entire club on plane toward the target is a great putting thought as well as a full swing thought.

 

I want to thank all who have contributed here. Special thanks to Steve for sharing his personal experiences and insights. I keep finding more gems of wisdom every time I come to this thread and every time I reread the book.

[WayRight]

On the downswing, what part of the 'upper arms' do you guys focus on?

 

Initially I was focusing on just my left shoulder/outside of my left bicep.

 

TodayI tried to focus on the enire upper arms of both arms, like I'm throwing something from the golf stance towards the target.

 

This 2nd way sounds more like what I imagine MDLT would want us to do???

 

Any input would be appreciated.

[dlygrisse]

On the downswing, what part of the 'upper arms' do you guys focus on?

 

Initially I was focusing on just my left shoulder/outside of my left bicep.

 

TodayI tried to focus on the enire upper arms of both arms, like I'm throwing something from the golf stance towards the target.

 

This 2nd way sounds more like what I imagine MDLT would want us to do???

 

Any input would be appreciated.

I feel like my triceps move down towards my rib age. But really it's just a slight move for me. I focus more on where the club is moving.

 

For me the arm movement is just a feel to stop me from releasing my hands too early but the real focus is swing the club to the target.

[larssonlegend]

Last few rounds I have taken the simple thoughts of swinging club with hands on backswing and arms on downswing , coupled with thinking about the inner circle and club to target. Nothing else, not leg positions, no shoulder turn thoughts. It's been a revelation, I've had best ball striking rounds of the year, gained distance and really excited about rest of season. Crazy because so few technical ideas in my head . So Glad I came across this thread

[wmblake2000]

The area of mannys book no one has mentioned is the stuff at the end about the mental aspect of playing. Again simple but potent concepts.

 

The net of all my questions is: sometimes it seems to me you have to pay attention to corrective motions. This new motion will be absorbed into the core concept of mannys swing.

[dlygrisse]

The area of mannys book no one has mentioned is the stuff at the end about the mental aspect of playing. Again simple but potent concepts.

 

The net of all my questions is: sometimes it seems to me you have to pay attention to corrective motions. This new motion will be absorbed into the core concept of mannys swing.

 

I agree.

 

I also really like his thoughts on putting of just rolling the ball on a selected line. I have used this philosophy for years but reading it in his book really reinforced it for me. It really takes mechanical thoughts out of the putting strike.

[bph7]

On the downswing, what part of the 'upper arms' do you guys focus on?

 

Initially I was focusing on just my left shoulder/outside of my left bicep.

 

TodayI tried to focus on the enire upper arms of both arms, like I'm throwing something from the golf stance towards the target.

 

This 2nd way sounds more like what I imagine MDLT would want us to do???

 

Any input would be appreciated.

 

The "arm" or "upper arm" is between elbow and shoulder.