Could a 12 handicapper....

[Marand]

[quote name='Titleist 670' timestamp='1427858902' post='11258519']
[quote name='Marand' timestamp='1427858518' post='11258489']
[quote name='Titleist 670' timestamp='1427857488' post='11258383']
Yeah I mean what irons I play are so insanely far away as far as what I need to do to get better it's not even funny. It's fun buying new clubs every now and then but I have had some great, great rounds with my current irons and love their look and feel that searching for something better and dropping $1,000 seems kind of silly - I'd be much better off paying for lessons and practing more.

Before joining WRX it never occured to me that someone might look at my irons and think I was making a statement that the pro tour is in my future; but I guess there are people who actually do play certain clubs and talk a game that is 20 strokes better than it actually is.
[/quote]

Yes, it's really very simple, if you want to get better practice more, practice smarter, don't be satisfied with 'ok'. It'll go faster if you can find a good instructor (beware a poor one though). It won't matter in the slightest which clubs you use to do that, in the end no club design will hold you back, whether you're swinging a Mizuno MP-4, or a Ping G30, or a Callaway any iron. The results come from digging it out of the dirt.
[/quote]

I certainly wish I had more time to do so - but with a young family it's tough, and I also like to work out a ton which cuts into practice time. I'm hoping in 5 to 10 years I can start playing and practicing more.

My wife doesn't care how much I play, but I'm not going to ditch her and my daughter for 6 hours every weekend day during the summer, that's for sure.
[/quote]

I understand completely, I raised two fine daughters. I played once a week in the summer only throughout their childhoods, no more, often less. And I didn't practice. So I didn't get better.

[Titleist 670]

Re: scores improving over the last 50 years, I have no idea how anyone would ever verify that. People rarely even keep honest scores, and most people are pretty terrible at golf - and I'm not talking WRX terrible.

When you really talk about the overall population that's out on the course, a 10 handicap looks like a touring pro.

[govols]

[quote name='Marand' timestamp='1427858951' post='11258521'][quote name='govols' timestamp='1427858064' post='11258443']
[quote name='Marand' timestamp='1427857358' post='11258373']
You're going to have to do better than make an assertion without any source to back it up and then ask me to prove you're wrong. The ball is in [i][u]your[/u][/i] court. Source please. Surely you have one.....

As far as my knowledge of the socio-economic landscape of the game of golf, we're not talking about the beginning of the 20th century, we're talking about the [i]end[/i] of it. In my personal experience, I started playing golf in 1957 and have played public course golf since. My dad belonged to a couple of country clubs in the 1960's, but his clubs were a whole lot less crowded than any public course I ever played. And there were always many more public courses in the areas I lived than private throughout the time I've played golf.[/quote]

Not sure I get what you're saying. What does the majority of people not being good at golf have to do with what you play and your ability?
[/quote]

I'm not the guy claiming the reason average golf scores haven't dropped in 50 years because the golf world has replaced rich guys who had lessons which offset their lousy equipment with poor guys who can't afford lessons, so, in spite of technological advances, scores haven't improved. That is your argument, right?

Or do I have that wrong?[/quote]

I don't care about scores of the masses. I do know that a cavity back club is more forgiving on mis-hits than a blade. I do know if you don't hit the ball solid every time with your blade it's of no benefit to you, workability or otherwise.

[Titleist 670]

[quote name='Marand' timestamp='1427859129' post='11258549']
[quote name='Titleist 670' timestamp='1427858902' post='11258519']
[quote name='Marand' timestamp='1427858518' post='11258489']
[quote name='Titleist 670' timestamp='1427857488' post='11258383']
Yeah I mean what irons I play are so insanely far away as far as what I need to do to get better it's not even funny. It's fun buying new clubs every now and then but I have had some great, great rounds with my current irons and love their look and feel that searching for something better and dropping $1,000 seems kind of silly - I'd be much better off paying for lessons and practing more.

Before joining WRX it never occured to me that someone might look at my irons and think I was making a statement that the pro tour is in my future; but I guess there are people who actually do play certain clubs and talk a game that is 20 strokes better than it actually is.
[/quote]

Yes, it's really very simple, if you want to get better practice more, practice smarter, don't be satisfied with 'ok'. It'll go faster if you can find a good instructor (beware a poor one though). It won't matter in the slightest which clubs you use to do that, in the end no club design will hold you back, whether you're swinging a Mizuno MP-4, or a Ping G30, or a Callaway any iron. The results come from digging it out of the dirt.
[/quote]

I certainly wish I had more time to do so - but with a young family it's tough, and I also like to work out a ton which cuts into practice time. I'm hoping in 5 to 10 years I can start playing and practicing more.

My wife doesn't care how much I play, but I'm not going to ditch her and my daughter for 6 hours every weekend day during the summer, that's for sure.
[/quote]

I understand completely, I raised two fine daughters. I played once a week in the summer only throughout their childhoods, no more, often less. And I didn't practice. So I didn't get better.
[/quote]

What's funny to me, as a former relatively good high school player, is how little respect people have for the work it takes to get good at golf.

I have buddies at work who can't understand why they aren't shooting their personal best every time out when they play twice a month. They shoot a not-even-legit 88 and complain if they go out and shoot a non-legit 98 the next time they play.

I wish more people could play tournament golf and understand how hard it is and the work it takes. When I go to professional events its just amazing how good, consistent, and rarely out of line the pros are.

[Titleist 670]

[quote name='govols' timestamp='1427859520' post='11258595']
[quote name='Marand' timestamp='1427858951' post='11258521'][quote name='govols' timestamp='1427858064' post='11258443']
[quote name='Marand' timestamp='1427857358' post='11258373']
You're going to have to do better than make an assertion without any source to back it up and then ask me to prove you're wrong. The ball is in [i][u]your[/u][/i] court. Source please. Surely you have one.....

As far as my knowledge of the socio-economic landscape of the game of golf, we're not talking about the beginning of the 20th century, we're talking about the [i]end[/i] of it. In my personal experience, I started playing golf in 1957 and have played public course golf since. My dad belonged to a couple of country clubs in the 1960's, but his clubs were a whole lot less crowded than any public course I ever played. And there were always many more public courses in the areas I lived than private throughout the time I've played golf.[/quote]

Not sure I get what you're saying. What does the majority of people not being good at golf have to do with what you play and your ability?
[/quote]

I'm not the guy claiming the reason average golf scores haven't dropped in 50 years because the golf world has replaced rich guys who had lessons which offset their lousy equipment with poor guys who can't afford lessons, so, in spite of technological advances, scores haven't improved. That is your argument, right?

Or do I have that wrong?[/quote]

I don't care about scores of the masses. I do know that a cavity back club is more forgiving on mis-hits than a blade. I do know if you don't hit the ball solid every time with your blade it's of no benefit to you, workability or otherwise.
[/quote]

Sorry buddy - blade = laid. That's why I play them.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Titleist 670' timestamp='1427858421' post='11258485']
[quote name='govols' timestamp='1427858189' post='11258451'] [quote name='Titleist 670' timestamp='1427857944' post='11258435'][quote name='dog flog' timestamp='1427857599' post='11258393'] Yes, you absolutely can play those clubs. With the reasonable expectation the scorecard will reflect your affection for them? Nope. It's like butter, I suppose. Some folks have a metabolism that would benefit from more of it but for most of us, our scorecard would be better off with bigger and far less buttery irons. [/quote] Going off topic here, but what are some irons that have the nice, clean simple look of a blade with more forgiveness?[/quote] AP2 & J40 (DPC). I'm sure others can add more models. [/quote]

Thanks. I really like the look of the ap2.

Truth be told, even though I said I haven't changed irons in many many years, I did ditch my 3-iron for an easier to hit hybrid. Part of me was thinking perhaps getting a different 4-iron might be worthwhile as well.

The remarks on here about the long irons being more difficult to hit with blades I find to be true, particularly the 3/4.
[/quote]
At one point I found my long 3i CB just as hard to hit as my blade 3i. Hence I put a 7w* in the bag. I can play either now but my point is that iron forgiveness is marginal so if you need forgiveness then go all in and get a hybrid or wood. They are stupid easy to hit in comparison to a long iron, including an SGI long iron.

*edit: I put the 7w in the bag after trying the SGI hybrid irons for a season which made me play worse.

[cb24]

[quote name='Titleist 670' timestamp='1427859831' post='11258645']
[quote name='govols' timestamp='1427859520' post='11258595']
[quote name='Marand' timestamp='1427858951' post='11258521'][quote name='govols' timestamp='1427858064' post='11258443']
[quote name='Marand' timestamp='1427857358' post='11258373']
You're going to have to do better than make an assertion without any source to back it up and then ask me to prove you're wrong. The ball is in [i][u]your[/u][/i] court. Source please. Surely you have one.....

As far as my knowledge of the socio-economic landscape of the game of golf, we're not talking about the beginning of the 20th century, we're talking about the [i]end[/i] of it. In my personal experience, I started playing golf in 1957 and have played public course golf since. My dad belonged to a couple of country clubs in the 1960's, but his clubs were a whole lot less crowded than any public course I ever played. And there were always many more public courses in the areas I lived than private throughout the time I've played golf.[/quote]

Not sure I get what you're saying. What does the majority of people not being good at golf have to do with what you play and your ability?
[/quote]

I'm not the guy claiming the reason average golf scores haven't dropped in 50 years because the golf world has replaced rich guys who had lessons which offset their lousy equipment with poor guys who can't afford lessons, so, in spite of technological advances, scores haven't improved. That is your argument, right?

Or do I have that wrong?[/quote]

I don't care about scores of the masses. I do know that a cavity back club is more forgiving on mis-hits than a blade. I do know if you don't hit the ball solid every time with your blade it's of no benefit to you, workability or otherwise.
[/quote]

Sorry buddy - blade = laid. That's why I play them.
[/quote]

Best post in the whole thread, lol!!!!!!!

[govols]

[quote name='Titleist 670' timestamp='1427859831' post='11258645'][quote name='govols' timestamp='1427859520' post='11258595']
[quote name='Marand' timestamp='1427858951' post='11258521'][quote name='govols' timestamp='1427858064' post='11258443']
[quote name='Marand' timestamp='1427857358' post='11258373']
You're going to have to do better than make an assertion without any source to back it up and then ask me to prove you're wrong. The ball is in [i][u]your[/u][/i] court. Source please. Surely you have one.....

As far as my knowledge of the socio-economic landscape of the game of golf, we're not talking about the beginning of the 20th century, we're talking about the [i]end[/i] of it. In my personal experience, I started playing golf in 1957 and have played public course golf since. My dad belonged to a couple of country clubs in the 1960's, but his clubs were a whole lot less crowded than any public course I ever played. And there were always many more public courses in the areas I lived than private throughout the time I've played golf.[/quote]

Not sure I get what you're saying. What does the majority of people not being good at golf have to do with what you play and your ability?
[/quote]

I'm not the guy claiming the reason average golf scores haven't dropped in 50 years because the golf world has replaced rich guys who had lessons which offset their lousy equipment with poor guys who can't afford lessons, so, in spite of technological advances, scores haven't improved. That is your argument, right?

Or do I have that wrong?[/quote]

I don't care about scores of the masses. I do know that a cavity back club is more forgiving on mis-hits than a blade. I do know if you don't hit the ball solid every time with your blade it's of no benefit to you, workability or otherwise.
[/quote]

Sorry buddy - blade = laid. That's why I play them.[/quote]

It's by default.....you're married

[stratdogg_pro]

[quote name='21degreeloft' timestamp='1427748395' post='11247483']
Play with these irons?

Callaway apex mb
Titleist mb
Taylormade TP MB
Mizuno mp-4
Callaway razr x MB
[/quote]
The answer is yes. And every 18 or better should use that type of iron.

[ezpz]

You should play whatever you like. That being said the argument that a 12 might be a great ballstriker but has bad short game sounds ridiculous to me, I have yet to meet a ~10 who is a "great" ballstriker aka makes very consistent contact with good launch conditions. Heck most 5 hcp are delighted when their mishits finish somewhere pin high which is unlikely to happen when playing blades.

This is another pretty much useless reply in the 1000th topic about this subject so just play whatever you like, people you meet on the course aren't looking at your bag like its golfwrx and you might get a snide remark once or twice but who cares if your having fun.

[Ozsouthpaw]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427819984' post='11253377']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1427819430' post='11253297']
[quote name='Ozsouthpaw' timestamp='1427772945' post='11250533']
Think about your game. Are you a 12 going down or is 12 your mean average. As a 12 you hit greens less than six or seven times in regulation. Currently, exactly how many times do you use an iron when more than 140 yards out now . I'm betting not often aside from par threes and then you get extra leeway by teeing up.
Can you use MB's from 7 to pw ,no problem. Will your handicap improve? probably not.
The lower your handicap the less strokes you have to play around with and the more critical your iron play ,as a 12 you can stuff up 5 or 6 irons and still go ok.
[/quote]

aye..i;d like to comment on this because i think you made an excellent point. if someone is a 12 handicap based upon the handicap system he is prob shooting what? high 80's on average based upon how the system works if he is playing courses with at least mid slope ratings?

while i think people should use gear which is reasonable matched to their current skillset, a high 80's golfer likely isnt going to hit any more greens by switching to a less demanding club than blades....instead of being 20 yards short he may be 5 yards short for example from the many miss hits. that may help him of course if water is in the way

the better you become at golf the more important the gear becomes i believe. ie: it's not so hard to go from a 20 capper down to a 15.....from a 5 to scratch? very hard..and that where you really need to concentrate on the short game and putting. but .thats where you need to be absolutely sure you are swinging something matched to your skillset

all up though it is far better to flush hit your irons than miss hit them....a concept that seems to be lost on many around here.
[/quote]
Here's a concept: where is the scoring data and proof the blade makes you lose strokes, for all types of golfers?

You talk as if it is an absolute a blade will make you play worse yet you can only provide anecdotal observation to back up your statements.

Oh and you can't even quote a recent modern blade that you have tried as much as your own clubs.

If you weren't so negative and afraid of blades you may change your mind about them.
[/quote]

What brand of jungle juice are you on I want some
The OP is asking a simple question could he play blades .
What is said above is a 12 handicapper can play blades and not have a worse score but if he wants to become a better player he may need that little bit of extra forgiveness as the lower you go every part of your game comes under additional pressure. FYR I am on 12.6 .Iplay 5/pw MP60 and 3/4 BH edge pros , sometimes BH apex edge pros or my Adams a12 pros. and love the mizzies most even though the adams are more consistent for me
I hate shovels
I am on the other side of 70 ,fully retired and play 3 comps. A week . If I wanted to lower my handicap I would probably see a pro. Get lessons and be guided by him on club selection as the OP should

[27x10.5]

If you were learning to play 25 years ago you'd be playing them so who cares. Play what you like, in a few months you'll like something else. If you were at s Ferrari dealer ready to write a check would you really ask a bunch of strangers if you can handle the power or if you should just get a Prius?

[Nine Miler]

Blades are to Ferrari as CBs are to Prius. Arrrrrriiite.

[27x10.5]

[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427889187' post='11259751']
Blades are to Ferrari as CBs are to Prius. Arrrrrriiite.
[/quote]

No offense to the CB playing Prius drivers, it was just a sarcastic analogy. I thank you for your low carbon emissions though.

[Nine Miler]

[quote name='27x10.5' timestamp='1427891448' post='11259911']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427889187' post='11259751']
Blades are to Ferrari as CBs are to Prius. Arrrrrriiite.
[/quote]

No offense to the CB playing Prius drivers, it was just a sarcastic analogy. I thank you for you low carbon emissions though.
[/quote]

Lol! Living outside of Detroit, I only drive American pigs. I know, my Chrysler is technically Italian, and they make Toyotas in Kentucky...

[Tcann32]

[quote name='27x10.5' timestamp='1427891448' post='11259911']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427889187' post='11259751']
Blades are to Ferrari as CBs are to Prius. Arrrrrriiite.
[/quote]

No offense to the CB playing Prius drivers, it was just a sarcastic analogy. I thank you for your low carbon emissions though.
[/quote]

This topic get's me much more fired up than the blades topic.. I'm on your side, and I am laughing my butt off right now. Tip of the hat to you sir.

[Nine Miler]

This seems like a really great way to end this thread. I wish I had the power to do that. LOL.

[27x10.5]

Just joking, I just can't believe I got myself involved in a blades thread, I swore to myself to never again. BladeWRX

[Tcann32]

I would've loved to be a fly on the wall to watch the mental carnage and keyboard mashing that was sure to ensue from those who are deeply opinionated on this topic.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Tcann32' timestamp='1427893633' post='11260095']
I would've loved to be a fly on the wall to watch the mental carnage and keyboard mashing that was sure to ensue from those who are deeply opinionated on this topic.
[/quote]
I used to like being the fly on the wall but found participating on these merry go rounds is fun too. Call it WRX boredom.

FWIW I'm of the opinion that you can play whatever club you want as long as you practice regularly and get fit for it. Blades can be put on the table in this decision without fear. And yeah this is a deep opinion.

[Mizzylefty]

Long time lurker, newish poster here. I've resisted the temptation until now to post on a blades thread............no offence to anyone intended !

To the Op, can a 12 h/cap play blades ? absolutely, he can play hickories if he wants. Can a 12 h/cap play blades well ? I guess that depends on what your definition of "well" is. Can a 12 h/cap optimise his score by playing blades ? Hmmm, probably not, unless he's a total statistical outlier and doesn't fit into the broad spectrum of how a normal 12 plays. But Golfwrx does seem to have a large population of mid handicappers who hit it great but can't chip or putt for some reason......lol

Let me give my own experience of blades. I grew up playing blades from the time I started at 10 years old (40 years old now), last blade set was Mizuno TP9 back in the day. I was always around 4/5/6 handicap (that's CONGU, so from what I've seen online, roughly equivalent to 2 or 3 under the USGA system) and one day about 10 years ago I tried out my father's old T Zoid Oversize XV irons for a laugh. What a difference !! Seriously it was like cheating, all you had to do was show the club to the ball and it was gone ! Ok that's a slight exaggeration but it felt like that. Anyway I invested in a set of MX20 and my golf went to another level. The following season I was down to 3 handicap and holding it quite easily. Now, did the new irons cause all this ? Who knows. Did they help ? Without a doubt. A few years later I started to get ahead of myself and felt that the MX irons were a bit big and chunky so I got a set of MP60 (as near to a blade as makes no real difference) and pretty soon my handicap was back out to the 6/7 range. My GIR went way down also.

In my [b]opinion[/b], the bottom line is blades are harder to hit consistently well. I do feel that cavities arguably offer more help to the better player insofar as if you miss the sweetspot by an inch it doesn't really matter what you use anyway. For me, its the shots that are only slightly mishit that get the real benefit of a cavity. You know, the one that's a groove or two low on the face or slightly out of the toe. A good shot is much the same with either type, its the slightly bad ones that end up slightly better with the cavity giving a little help.

Anyway, each to their own, play what makes you happy. I would add that, again, in my opinion only, someone who needs blades to work the ball left or right or to hit it lower probably isn't good enough to use blades in the first place, all those shots can be played with a cavity iron. And that's before I'd even consider that I could probably count on the fingers of one hand the amount of times I've seen a club golfer try to "work" the ball successfully.

[Jon H]

[quote name='Titleist 670' timestamp='1427857944' post='11258435']
[quote name='dog flog' timestamp='1427857599' post='11258393']
Yes, you absolutely can play those clubs. With the reasonable expectation the scorecard will reflect your affection for them? Nope. It's like butter, I suppose. Some folks have a metabolism that would benefit from more of it but for most of us, our scorecard would be better off with bigger and far less buttery irons.
[/quote]

Going off topic here, but what are some irons that have the nice, clean simple look of a blade with more forgiveness?
[/quote]

S55's.

[T.Beau]

I have two simple questions for the blade experts:

B) Are irons that are easier to flush hit easier to flush hit?

4) Is it better to flush hit than miss hit?

[Danm2501]

Am sure it's already been suggested, but why not get a mixed/combo set? Mizuno's irons fit very nicely into mixed sets, so you can have your long irons slightly more forgiving, and then get more bladed as you go through the set. That's my plan for my next set of irons, get the best of both worlds!

[DeNinny]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1427897415' post='11260563']
I have two simple questions for the blade experts:

B) Are irons that are easier to flush hit easier to flush hit?

4) Is it better to flush hit than miss hit?
[/quote]
I have a simple question:

Where is the proof that a blade actually hurts your score?

[govols]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427898904' post='11260723'][quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1427897415' post='11260563']
I have two simple questions for the blade experts:

B) Are irons that are easier to flush hit easier to flush hit?

4) Is it better to flush hit than miss hit?
[/quote]
I have a simple question:

Where is the proof that a blade actually hurts your score?[/quote]

So your point is I'm bad so may as well play cool clubs?

[DeNinny]

[quote name='govols' timestamp='1427899602' post='11260811']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427898904' post='11260723'][quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1427897415' post='11260563']
I have two simple questions for the blade experts:

B) Are irons that are easier to flush hit easier to flush hit?

4) Is it better to flush hit than miss hit?
[/quote]
I have a simple question:

Where is the proof that a blade actually hurts your score?[/quote]

So your point is I'm bad so may as well play cool clubs?
[/quote]
So your point is to mock somebody?

[DeNinny]

Nobody can prove a blade hurts all golfers scores. Nobody can prove a CB saves strokes for all golfers. There are no absolutes.

Deal with it.

[tdelam]

This thread....


[attachment=2689607:close-thread-o.gif]

[Mizzylefty]

I have a simple question:

Where is the proof that a blade actually hurts your score?


But, its hard to prove a negative though, no ?
Its not a scientifically verifiable fact. I'd say its more a causal relationship. I would have thought that, all things being equal (short game and putting), if someone's mishits are closer to the target then their score would be better. If I mishit a blade I may be in the front bunker, that slight mishit with a cavity could be on the front edge. I stress "could" because its hypothetical.

Ultimately people should play whatever they want and whatever makes them happy, I'd never tell anyone what they should or shouldn't play, but, in my opinion and from what I've seen, anyone who isn't an expert ball striker is leaving something behind on the course by playing blades. It might not be anything on a given round, but I'd bet over the course of a season or a few rounds there would be a difference. Why make the game harder ?

It does take a bit of time to make the transition away from blades though.