How to use the vokey K grind

[pollock21]

Well, I picked up a 58 sm5 k grind and have not fared well with it. I much prefer my 54 m grind to the k. I've read that the k needs to be used properly to be effective but I haven't had any luck finding out exactly what that is.

 

Before I sell my k and get an M, I was wondering if anyone had any insight on the tricks of the trade for the K. At this point I'm open to hear some thoughts, but I really get along well with the m and long term will likely be the better fit for me. I think I just don't get along well with the wide sole but I love the low leading edge.

 

I struggle with my distance control with full shots, and I'm really inconsistent with my open face shots as well. 58 used to be my go to out of the bunkers, but I'm now using my 54 m out of the sand with much more success. I really think I'm not utilizing the grind properly which is leading to my inconsistent play with the wedge. Any thoughts?

[Pigems]

I'd just go back to the m grind, some grinds work for some and not for others. I'd just go with what works for you

[B.Boston]

AFAIK with the K grind you just open the face up and it prevents the club from digging.

what are your misses like with the K grind?

[pollock21]

Full shots I'm either fat or thin. Not as much solid contact. But I'm on dry and tight dormant Bermuda right now which requires really solid ball striking. Same goes for my short shots. It's almost like the wide sole is cutting down my margin for error or something. I've been really solid with the m grind on my 54. The K might come around once the courses down here start to become a little more plush, but it's a scoring club that I can't score with. I'm missing greens bad from 100 out making bogies or worse and that's no good!

[gibby777]

Not surprised you are reporting issues with opening up the face. I am a bit surprised that you are having difficulty out of the sand. That is where the K grind shines for most people. That being said, I have the K grind in 56 and 60 and had grind work done on both to thin out the sole a bit and provide heel relief on the 60. I liked them to begin with, but struggled off tight lies with the 60 in particular. Now, I like them much better.

The K grind is not for everyone, especially those with a shallow angle of attack and/or play in firm conditions. The K grind gets a decent amount of tour play, but many of those guys have additional grind work done to make the wedge more versatile. I wouldn't give up on it yet, and if you have someone in your area that is good on a grind wheel, it may be worth checking out.

[pollock21]

I think the sand problems are more on me right now. I'm used to playing wedges that dig a little more in the sand, so going to a wedge with what seems like a ton more effective bounce has been inconsistent for me.

But I agree 100% with what you said on tight lies and open face shots. The wedge is still pretty new, so I might cut my losses and BST it then go get an M.

I really like my M and I'll likely be more consistent long term gaming wedges that play the same for me, rather than two that play a little different. I bought the K based on all the rave reviews, but that might be a lot of the WRX tour effect syndrome. LOL

I could try the grinding but that will pretty much kill the resale if it doesn't work out for me.

[Pigems]

All three of my vokeys are M grind, I had to bend a 54 to 52 and a 58 to 60 to get what I wanted because all options are not available in lefty. I like the M grind better myself too.

[dwboston]

[quote name='B.Boston' timestamp='1429038209' post='11358053']
AFAIK with the K grind you just open the face up and it prevents the club from digging.

what are your misses like with the K grind?
[/quote]

You don't have to open the face to prevent digging. It's a wide sole with a lot of bounce. I have the TVD-K 56 and 60 and they are great (for me) from the sand and full shots from the fairway. The bounce makes it pretty forgiving for short game shots around the green. I've seen a few posts here on WRX complaining about the difficulty of hitting flop shots with the face open, but I haven't found that. And the K-grind has helped my bunker game immensely.

[dwboston]

[quote name='pollock21' timestamp='1429039096' post='11358197']
I think the sand problems are more on me right now. I'm used to playing wedges that dig a little more in the sand, so going to a wedge with what seems like a ton more effective bounce has been inconsistent for me.

But I agree 100% with what you said on tight lies and open face shots. The wedge is still pretty new, so I might cut my losses and BST it then go get an M.

I really like my M and I'll likely be more consistent long term gaming wedges that play the same for me, rather than two that play a little different. I bought the K based on all the rave reviews, but that might be a lot of the WRX tour effect syndrome. LOL

I could try the grinding but that will pretty much kill the resale if it doesn't work out for me.
[/quote]

It's funny - I hit the TVD-M grinds a couple of years ago at a demo day and they didn't fit me at all. They just dug for me on every shot. The contact felt OK, but they just seemed to get stuck in the turf for me. The K has been perfect for me. I think your short game method plays a part as well. I've been using Monte's pitching/chipping method, and the K-grind works really well for that.

[B.Boston]

[quote name='dwboston' timestamp='1429040521' post='11358377'][quote name='B.Boston' timestamp='1429038209' post='11358053']
AFAIK with the K grind you just open the face up and it prevents the club from digging.

what are your misses like with the K grind?
[/quote]

You don't have to open the face to prevent digging. It's a wide sole with a lot of bounce. I have the TVD-K 56 and 60 and they are great (for me) from the sand and full shots from the fairway. The bounce makes it pretty forgiving for short game shots around the green. I've seen a few posts here on WRX complaining about the difficulty of hitting flop shots with the face open, but I haven't found that. And the K-grind has helped my bunker game immensely.[/quote]


Absolutely, I was thinking about bunker at when I said just open it up.

With a K grind you should not be digging on normal chips and pitches. You would have to be very steep for that!

[scheibler]

Off topic but I have a 58-12* 588 REG zip grooves I'd trade ya

[pollock21]

I wouldn't say at all that I'm digging. I've always preferred narrow soles and I suppose that just fits my swing. I create a lot of lag which would lead to saying bounce is good, but for me I like the turf interaction of a narrow sole. Could just be that the grind isn't a good fit for my swing or short game style. I'm certainly not shallow, so I can throw that out of the mix. If anything I'm working to take less deep divots with my scoring clubs for better control. The M is a better fit, I just want to make sure I'm not flat out doing something wrong with the K.

[the seanna]

2 words...Forward shaft lean. The K grind is incredible from any surface, did you see right before Tiger teed off Sunday he was practicing with a nike style K grind at Agusta the tightest if tight turf ever

[pollock21]

[quote name='scheibler' timestamp='1429040883' post='11358435']Off topic but I have a 58-12* 588 REG zip grooves I'd trade ya[/quote]

I still have my 588 RTX from last season I can throw in the bag if it gets to that point. If you had an sm5 58 m I'd be sending you my shipping address. Lol

[Kale_m]

Try bending it 2 degrees flat. I did this with mine and man it is so much better and suits my eye way better! Looks like a razors edge down by the ball

[Lord Helmet]

Go get something else that you and your swing jive with. Obviously, k grind isn't that. And check lie angle to make sure it matches your swing.

[Boydr12]

[quote name='pollock21' timestamp='1429038491' post='11358099']
Full shots I'm either fat or thin. Not as much solid contact. But I'm on dry and tight dormant Bermuda right now which requires really solid ball striking. Same goes for my short shots. It's almost like the wide sole is cutting down my margin for error or something. I've been really solid with the m grind on my 54. The K might come around once the courses down here start to become a little more plush, but it's a scoring club that I can't score with. I'm missing greens bad from 100 out making bogies or worse and that's no good!
[/quote]

I'm playing on the same type of conditions as you. Are you a picker or a digger? I have a 54 and 59 TVD K, and have great success on fuller shots and sand shots. Around the greens, my old M grind is a little more consistent for me. But for the bunker use, esp. Soft sand, these cannot be beat.

[CBRADGO]

My 58K is my go to for almost all my short game and all but the longest of greenside bunker shots. I also use it 90 yds and in. Paired with S400 wedge shafts, I gave my J40 wedges to a friend, it's just that good. I'm a digger and have to have high bounce wedges and find that the K grind is easy to adjust to for greenside work. If I need the flopadopolous I actually go to my 54S and lay the filet, unless it's sitting up, then K grind goes to work again. Hate you aren't gettig along with it. All I can tell you is to keep at it for a month, lots of playing time is needed (for me anyways) to adjust to new wedges...

[CRider]

I'll join the responders who tell you they love theirs. I have a 60 with a stock wedge flex shaft. I recently shifted wedge set-up and went to a 58 with a graphite Proto VS 100 R flex. Both do the job for a guy with a reasonably steep swing. Best from bunkers but also decent from greenside rough. I'm in the NE area so no exotic heavy grass.
But just to mess with this thread, my TaylorMade ATV wedges which I circulate through my set are neck and neck with these. Maybe even a smidge better. Wide sole. Interesting camber. Workable grind. They don't provide a bounce number, but I'm feeling it runs between 10-14 depending on how you open it. I have them in 54 and 60 and keep going back to them. FWIW.

[pollock21]

[quote name='Boydr12' timestamp='1429049351' post='11359417']
[quote name='pollock21' timestamp='1429038491' post='11358099']
Full shots I'm either fat or thin. Not as much solid contact. But I'm on dry and tight dormant Bermuda right now which requires really solid ball striking. Same goes for my short shots. It's almost like the wide sole is cutting down my margin for error or something. I've been really solid with the m grind on my 54. The K might come around once the courses down here start to become a little more plush, but it's a scoring club that I can't score with. I'm missing greens bad from 100 out making bogies or worse and that's no good!
[/quote]

I'm playing on the same type of conditions as you. Are you a picker or a digger? I have a 54 and 59 TVD K, and have great success on fuller shots and sand shots. Around the greens, my old M grind is a little more consistent for me. But for the bunker use, esp. Soft sand, these cannot be beat.
[/quote]

I'm a digger on full shots, but you can't dig around the greens on the short ones. Especially on tight lies, it calls for more of a sweeping shot. I can pull all these off with my M, but have found myself limited and inconsistent with the K on all those shots. I might give it more time before jumping ship. The downside is my 58 has always been my go to short game club. I can open it up and go high, play it back and play the low spinner, but I haven't been pulling these shots off with the K which led me to start reading up on the grind. I heard quite a few places that "you have to use the grind properly", which was the main reason for the post. To try and find out exactly what it is that I'm missing.

[paul1406]

I'm going with technique as the issue on this one. I found it harder to control wedge distances with a lot of wrist hinge. If I don't catch is perfect it's thin or fat. Try working it out by practicing 3/4 swings with less wrist hinge. You can control the loft you're delivering better and often still get the yardage you're looking for. I found never going over a 3/4 swing with my 61 degree L-grind leads me to a max yardage of 75 yards for that club. For everything between 75-110 yards I use a variation of swings (60%-85%) with my 54 degree K-grind. Over 110 yards belongs to my pitching wedge. For me wedge control is a strong suit of my game but it was a learning curve to get away from trying to see how high I could hit the ball and spin it back by going at it hard. Solid contact and awareness of the launch I was delivering changed my short game. From my experience this is done best by limiting wrist hinge and swing length. Nobody cares if you're using a PW, SW, or LW if the ball is sticking next to the pin.

[pollock21]

[quote name='paul1406' timestamp='1429072225' post='11362133']
I'm going with technique as the issue on this one. I found it harder to control wedge distances with a lot of wrist hinge. If I don't catch is perfect it's thin or fat. Try working it out by practicing 3/4 swings with less wrist hinge. You can control the loft you're delivering better and often still get the yardage you're looking for. I found never going over a 3/4 swing with my 61 degree L-grind leads me to a max yardage of 75 yards for that club. For everything between 75-110 yards I use a variation of swings (60%-85%) with my 54 degree K-grind. Over 110 yards belongs to my pitching wedge. For me wedge control is a strong suit of my game but it was a learning curve to get away from trying to see how high I could hit the ball and spin it back by going at it hard. Solid contact and awareness of the launch I was delivering changed my short game. From my experience this is done best by limiting wrist hinge and swing length. Nobody cares if you're using a PW, SW, or LW if the ball is sticking next to the pin.
[/quote]

I would say you might be onto something. But the other side of the coin is what fits my game. My 58 is my 115 and in club as I'm a higher swing speed guy. I've always been deadly in that 100-115 range with my 58. Inside of that it's touch shots that I used to have dialed in but I'm struggling now with this grind. I'll put in some range time working on less hinge on the short shots. But the downside is I now have a wedge in my bag that I have to modify my swing to make work. Or go out and get another wedge that works for my swing. I might have just bought something that doesn't agree with my style.

I'm gonna put more work in with it, especially out of the bunkers as that is where this grind really seems to shine from what I've heard. Plus it might actually come around once the fairways start coming in as you have to be pretty effing precise on the tight dormant bermuda. The fairways on my course now are almost like hard pan which certainly isn't helping. I'm not gonna give up just yet. Might throw my cleveland back in the bag until the fairways come in and then give this another go before I finalize my wedge choices for the season.

[MacDaddyMike]

I never really fell in love with the K grind. Struggled with it from the 50-100 yard range. But one place this wedge really shines is out of bunkers. I still think the ping eye 2 and vokey K gring are the best wedges for bunker shot ever made.

[mosesgolf]

The K grind didn't work for me either. I hit too many fat shots with it. I went to the M grind and it's working really good. Both the K and M work great in sand but for chipping and pitching the M was much better for my angle of attack.

[Aviador Naval]

I have a 58K that I use almost exclusively from the sand and love it. It has made sand play stress free. I only open the face in soft sand. In normal and hard sand, the default bounce does the job.

I bought a TVD 54K to use around the green and for longer bunker shots. Initially, I didn't get along with it. I then took a dremel and gave it a slight 'M' grind trim. It is now fantastic. The leading edge sits a hair lower and I can open it up a bit easier but I still get the benefit of a bit more effective bounce (which is good for my swing).

Pics here [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1005447-aviador-naval-2014-updated-28-aug/page__st__30"]http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1005447-aviador-naval-2014-updated-28-aug/page__st__30[/url] before I stripped the rest of the finish.

[cxx]

OP... sounds like you are an M grind person. Just go with it. I wouldn't start grinding away at the K trying to make it an M. If you really need to, you could look at a grind with slightly less relief than the M, but I'd let the performance of the club decide.

I haven't seen fluffy sand in 20 years, except when they refill a bunker and that goes away in a month or so.

[PinonMagnolia]

I like the K around the green and from the fairway, but hate it from the bunker. Given the bounce and wider sole, are you not supposed to lay the K open in the sand like other wedges? My bunker game is sound with the M grind, but the K has me blading them. It is almost like I can't get the club under the ball.

Love the K grind to give me some added versatility against the M grind 55*

[DaRiz]

Take more sand with the K. It's best with soft sand, blasting a lot of it as opposed to trying to pick it closer to the ball like you would with a low bounce wedge.

It actually makes it easier, because you can err on the side of taking too much sand and never have to worry about blading it

[pollock21]

M wins. Broke down and bought another and it's night and day for me. I did put some bunker work in with the K and it really is nice out of the bunkers, but to me that's the only place it really shines for me. I'm pretty good with my M out of bunkers as well, and it beats out the K for me everywhere else so it's a no brainer.

Now I regret my extended bunker session with my k as i put quite a few scuffs on the face which might hurt the resale. Sucks because it's fresh. Most likely heading to the BST with my putter project I'm giving up on.

Thanks for the tips and input guys, ultimately just not the best fit for me.

[t4t3r]

[quote name='pollock21' timestamp='1430188740' post='11455701']
M wins. Broke down and bought another and it's night and day for me. I did put some bunker work in with the K and it really is nice out of the bunkers, but to me that's the only place it really shines for me. I'm pretty good with my M out of bunkers as well, and it beats out the K for me everywhere else so it's a no brainer.

Now I regret my extended bunker session with my k as i put quite a few scuffs on the face which might hurt the resale. Sucks because it's fresh. Most likely heading to the BST with my putter project I'm giving up on.

Thanks for the tips and input guys, ultimately just not the best fit for me.
[/quote]

Your experience is identical to mine. Played a TVD 58K all last season and liked it, but never loved it. It is good out of bunkers, but in hard bunkers which is what most of my local courses are, it doesn't work as well. Soft bunkers it really is like cheating though. Fast forward to about a month ago when I decided to try some different bounces than what I've always used. I picked up a SM5 58M and it's working out fantastically for me. As I mentioned about my local bunkers, fairways usually play firm and fast during the summer so that extra bounce was really causing me a lot of inconsistency at contact. The M will dig on really soft surfaces though, as I chunked a couple during an evening round last week after it had rained most of the day. Otherwise, very happy M grind fan here.